At the start of the year I wrote a post about a user here who was extracting more than that TA every month by voting 10 accounts over and over, and over. You know the type.
Seven months ago, the chart looked like this:
Today the chart looks like this:
No... that can't be right? Is that the right chart?
Yes. Yes it is.
This has been going on for years.
This morning I was checking in and then and once my Downvote Mana recharged, I put a couple on one of these posts. I would have left a comment explaining that I believe it to be over rewarded, but then... The last comment the account made was the 7th of October, 2018... 11 months ago.
So, I used my little downvote and then noticed that my little downvote was significantly larger than my upvote. So I used it again to test. And then again. Oh and then I remembered to take a screenshot for a before and after and used it again.
Before
After
from: https://steemit.com/@thecatfiles
My upvote took 41 cents off the post payout. However, when I went to Steemworld, my downvote was only worth -20 cents.
It is the convergent curve doing this as while the curve benefits upvoters as votes stack on top of each other, it also benefits downvoters by making the vote strength higher on content with larger payouts.
I don't know the math.
I clicked through the other names on the voting circle above:
https://steemit.com/@sherrychan
https://steemit.com/@angelatang
https://steemit.com/@helgachen
Besides @honeybee who seems to at least randomly try to create content, the rest appears all to be written by the same bot person. Two paragraphs and a picture, no comments other than an automated one every now and again. I have no idea how this isn't getting @steemcleaners'd...
But, this is happening and just to give you some perspective.
Each one is getting about 18 dollars which equals around about 180 dollars a day.
180/0.21(feed price) = 857 STEEM a day.
As this is stake based, we can say that it is pretty static.
It has been 215 days since I wrote the last post on this circle.
251x857= 184255 STEEM out of the pool through these accounts. And because it is predominantly a circle with a few frontrunners, even the curation is going back to the group.
All except @amylee is powering down.
Again, why hasn't this been @steemcleaners'd?
Well, regardless, now there is more incentive for people to take notice of these kinds of circles and this one has been going for a very long time, silently continuing its extraction.
Lol. @angelatang
231 posts, not one comment but...
200 posts, 0 comments.
The last comment by @sherrychan was April 2018.
2018
702 posts, 6 comments 32,000 STEEM.
Nice use of delegations @sweetsssj... again.
While I don't want downvotes to turn into a witch hunt, I feel that this particular circle which is about the most selfish and closed on the platform should be dismantled. I think that this is the circle where my downvotes are going to go as this all appears automated resource extraction. Greed of the highest order.
Everyone can do what they want with their stake though which means, this is all okay if we decide to keep ignoring it.
That was a lot of screengrabs for a Friday night.
Taraz
[ a Steem original ]
Answering two of your questions.
Your downvote is worth more because it is higher on the curve (post is worth more). Remember the curve has nothing to do with your vote but the content you are voting. It works for upvotes and downvotes.
The reason it hasn't been handled by Steem Cleaners (as far as I know, I have no affiliation) is because reward disagreement is not something they deal with. They mostly deal with ID theft and fraud, spaminator deal with spam (but has very strict rules what is actionable).
I am working on an independent Steem Cleaners like service that will have more freedom on what it can handle.
In the end, there are no guidelines on what is acceptable content and what is reasonable rewards. Everyone's opinion is different. Without guidelines it is going to be very inconsistent and unreliable.
PS:
She (and her friends/family) also had large (600K SP if I remember correctly) support from Ned and still has a large chunk of support from hendrikdegrote
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Yep thanks. I had a little chat with Eon today about it, but I am not confident enough to add details but, your explanation is good enough for most.
But they also deal with farming - and I think this fits.
Looking forward to it.
I know there is a lot of color between the black and white, but I don't get how this has been going on for so long with one of the largest voting stakes on the platform. There was no incentive before, maybe there is enough reason now to take another look for some people.
Thanks for adding the explanations, it is appreciated.
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Not really, spaminator does but the "strings attached" are so many that a lot gets around the rules. It is also usually only dealt with for a short time and then removed from the bot or the bot is down (spaminator hasn't voted in 4 days). Both are sitting at 100% right now.
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yep, those strings are the issue and I understand why. Just trying for a little #newsteem ;D
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I've been wondering who to hit, just went on a spree. I have another 10K coming back in just under a week, so I'll check in on this circle every few days and make sure my free downvotes aren't being wasted.
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I am unsure if they will even notice since there are so few comments. most likely they have a schedule of hundreds of posts set up and then walked away. I could write all of their weekly content in an hour.
There are more services coming to aid targeting.
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It's about time someone just put it right out there. This has been one of the most flagrant abuses since the original massive
giftdelegation she received from Ned allowing her to build her stake.At one point she was selling votes for steem. She avoided the worst of retaliatory action because she was a member of the original steem guild which .... well, that is a long story and you probably know.
Anyway, cheers. I think I might target these for a while! :OD
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There has been a crazy amount of blindeye turned this way since I have been on Steem. The amounts extracted are enormous.
Yep, I know enough of the history...
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The amounts are actually jaw droppingly huge. I was surprised myself despite knowing of it, at least thinking I knew of it
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You can thank henrichdegrote for that. Powered down everything yet he didn’t pull back this particular delegation...
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Madness. Utter madness
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It's most likely
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Wow! Nicely done @tarazkp! Being the uhhh ... "visually oriented" sort, this was an excellent post with the kind of details I needed to understand what is at stake (pardon the pun ... 😉) here ...
Once back inside from working in my garden today, I will take a closer look and, perhaps, cast my first downvotes ever since I "jumped in here" over a year and a half ago.
Resteemed. As always thank you (for all of those screengrabs!) and keep up the great work! 👍
P.S. Also tagged it in @steempeak, since that is my "go to" method for trying to keep track of posts which I would like to refer back to, as needed.
P.P.S. I'll have to go visit the blog of the uhhh ... "big kahuna" of this sort of crap to see if they are getting their abuse addressed ...
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Thanks. It took a while to compile, and I am pretty fast with the snip tool. I need another screen :D
It is an interesting case in many ways as it has got overlooked for years and I am unsure why.
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Years ago @tarazkp ...
... I thought often of getting a 2nd screen, but always thought I would save the money and do without. Like I was raised ... 😉
It was actually at work, where my employer finally "broke down" and got us all a 2nd screen. Once I found out how dramatic the efficiency gains, etc. were, I quickly got one for my home workstation as well. I will never be without a 2nd one again ...
As for how this "circle" escaped, you know more about these things than I, but I am certain there are much bigger violators than these. We'll see if they are "taken on" now that we have HF 2
12 behind us ...P.S. Some people (a lot of people?) actually do an amazing amount of posting with their smartphones?! I'd go blind pretty quickly ...
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I have 2, but no room for them as I lost my office to my daughter. I am on a very low power laptop at home.
I need a new home.
This is one of the largest operations on steem. with each account voted taking around 25,000 Steem a year.
I can force a post out, but I rarely comment from my phone because when I do I try and cut it short and it becomes shallow.
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Hmmm. Let's see ...
Okay then @tarazkp! Go big or go ... home ... 😉
You've achieved an amazing amount of success "in here." How much more STEEM would that take?
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A lot more than I have. Finland is one of the most expensive countries in the world with one of the highest taxes on crypto.
On a side note, that SP earned is no longer representative of what I have actually earned because I have been using the ocdb distributor for a year at least. It has helped me grow but means my numbers are useless :/
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Following through on my commitment @tarazkp, much later than I had hoped, but ... Was immediately stopped by two issues:
In the limited time I had, I didn't see hardly any downvotes on these posts, so a long way to go ...
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On the post beside the 'resteem' button, there are 3-dots.. Click them and there you will see the downvote option on Steempeak.
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Okay, so we have a different mechanism than upvoting @kharma.scribbles. Guess it is sort of "tucked away" then ... Thank you!
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Yep handrik has been supporting this for some reason the entire time. I am not sure if she pays for the delegation, but there are no direct sends to the hendrik account.
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I have never seen @steemcleaners focusing on big accounts ...
I think especially before HF 21 took place, many whales had been a perfect target for @steemcleaners, if ... my first sentence was wrong ... ;-)
And yes, I noticed the '@sweetsssj-syndicate' as well.
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That is a heck of a lot of milking going on and happy to add my 5 c or maybe 20 c on a downvote.
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I am unsure if they would even notice considering it appears mostly automated.
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We will see lol.
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Nice find and I agree with you the perfect way of using your downvote!👍 and regarding steemcleaners did anyone ever tell, I assume the cleaners can’t be everywhere?🤔
Posted using Partiko iOS
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I am pretty sure they know but it isn't always so clear for them due to the stake they are using.
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I don't get this part actually... What do you mean by not always clear due to the stake?🤔
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They are using Steemit Inc stake and that comes with certain kinds of limitations that are kind of culturally imposed by the community.
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Finally something worth while to do on Steemit! I can cast aside the Armadillo and become Downvote Man, doing my part to pump out the bilge and help right the good ship Steemit. I am going to have to make my self a costume. With a cape.
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:)
Are you going to wear a cape with a big D on it?
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I might. I will take pictures.
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Please, use the cape to cover the little D at least.
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That sweetsss account has been doing the same thing from the time I got here over two years ago.
She is supported by a couple of whales with delegations?
You mentioned it in passing in the post.
It's easy enough to find out who they are as themarkymark pointed out above or is the old fear of retaliation still lingering somewhat?
At least you had the balls to post about what you found and that's worth an upvote alone.
Well done Mr T
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Hendrikdegrote and systema, who I think are the same.
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Yeah I followed the trail and found the same things.
I think a bot to track this behaviour could be helpful and as for a reason to downvote this use of stake.
I think it may breach the TOS in terms of 'proof of brain'?
The concept of steemit was for people to select the best content. If this process is automated then where is the proof of brain other than someone had the brains to game the system?
#justanidea
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THe brains to game the system is actually a pretty good PoB if there was the incentive to stop those who game the system... oh, now there is ;D
I think the bots will arrive and I also hope there will be statistics and analytics to gamify the downvotin experience to some degree. Feedback on how we as a community and the health of the ecosystem is doing.
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Can remember that post of yours from7 months ago.
Just went to "work" a bit already and did some DVing on 4 of the mentioned above. Gonna be a busy weekend.
Great detective work. Resteemed btw.
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Much appreciated. Been waiting for the hf to bring this up again. :)
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Clever thinking.
With the hf the moment has come to (at least) do a bit more against this abuse.
Hope a lot will follow en join in.
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!downvotetoken
Well this is just great isn't it, hopefully something can be done.
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It is a pretty massive amount being extracted and I am probably underestimating the totals.
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She isn't the only one, there are so many that are.
raindrop (aka Traf)
traf
majes.tytyty
There are tons more. I could go on, but I am enjoying a chicken salad sandwich.
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Oh, you have a much cooler tool than me, is this the one you released a while ago?
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It's my private one, but I do have public dashboards.
https://usesteem.com/dashboards/tarazkp
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Yep, this is the one I have used before, thanks.
I am hoping that these displays can be integrated (more account fun and friendly data) into some of the interfaces. I think people will love having access to the analytics. What might be nice is to have them tokenized where one can buy access to the dash or get premium skins and choose to show some information to their followers on their blog page. I reckon it would be great for Communities to implement.
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popcorn for dessert?
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That's pretty cool that you have a sandwich though.
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It was super good. I was into grilled cheeses for a while last week.
Made like 5 grill cheeses last week.
And to think everyone thinks !pancakes when they see my name.
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Thanks for contacting Pancakes Express!
Would you like to order pancakes?
Please upvote this comment with your order:
If you would like to order your own pancakes, just make a comment
!pancakesanywhere on the blockchain and we will send you a menu.Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
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@themarkymark, your pancakes are ready!
Source
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Damn, what a pancake.
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Those are the best ones. Probably better than pancakes. I use olive oil on the outside of the bread, real cheddar instead of those damn fake cheese slice things, and I put a little bit of Italian salad dressing on the inside of the bread. Dude I can do in five a DAY!
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Try putting cheese on the bread and searing it in on both sides, cheese grilled cheese.
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When downvoting Bernie spam, the fast response I got was disproportionate massive revenge downvoting. Downvoting Sweetass circlejerking does seem safer, but that just lets the Bernies of the world off easy.
Not sure there’s a good answer to that dilemma.
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There have been plenty of whale fights.. did you miss the hecitc battles last summer? (I think it was June-ish 2018?)
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Whale fights at least have a semi-level playing field. 😏
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I think we ought to have a discussion about resetting the rep and making that metric more meaningful. I, like I suspect many others, have plenty of ideas regarding how to go about making rep meaningful.
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Yup, this has been going on for a long period of time, and it's insane. I have one question though, what is the real difference here between all of this and the haejin-situation?
I mean, people tried to counter haejin in the past, and they failed. Nowadays, he still publish a ton of posts, have zero engagement and get 100% upvotes from rancho and obviously upvotes his own posts too.
And yeah, he is powering down as well.
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The short answer is not much really, if those rewards from the accounts in the pie are going round to where the votes came from.
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Nothing, which is why he got a bit of a mention too. TA.
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I'm glad, otherwise I would've missed something. :D
But yeah, I actually think that these types of problems starts with the whole "do what you want with your stake"-thing. Self Voting is okay and as you're also allowed to do whatever you want with your stake... Things are getting tricky.
Especially as we've seen investors posting crap only to reward themselves, without major repercussions or consequences before as well. This is also one of the reasons I avoid flagging to begin with, because it doesn't feel good to go after a few when there are others doing the exact same thing.
On the other hand, you'll have to start somewhere.
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has to be that way. The problem was their was incentive in one direction, cost in the other. That is changing.
Trending was a good place to start as it was visible as an indicator of downvote value. It isn't the place to stay though because hopefully in time what is in trending deserves to be there.
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What a sweetsssj mess she was..
https://steemit.com/steemit/@walden/sweetsssj-sixth-day-eleventh-hour-selfvoting-via-a-13-account-content-farm
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Crazy isn't it. No matter the privileged conditions, for some it is never enough.
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I noticed my downvote is huge than the upvote. I took off 20 cents from a post by using my $0.05 value upvote!
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Yep, kind of cool.
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As said, disagreement of rewards. I think ten accounts with no comments, no engagement, no real support and extracting 900 steem a day for 2 years is excessive and not good for the platform in any way, other than being targets for the community to train their stake direction skills upon.
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It looks like I was the next person to vote/downvote on the post judging by your screenshots - On my screen I saw the post had 71 voters and $18.45. I wish I had used the sniping tool to demo this - but I just did exactly the same as you on exactly the same post- I did a downvote, and the rewards went up by about 20cents, I undid the downvote and the post rewards went up by about 7cents and so downvoted again and they fell by 7cents. Weird. Net net the my activity has pushed up the post rewards and undone the super downvote you seem to have!That's not great - going to have to test again!
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The numbers will change depending on the pool draw anyway, but taking the vests away is the more important goal than the value itself :)
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Seems like a good place to start my down votes.. How do you find such accounts? I hate to waste my down votes when they could be used for a worth cause like cleaning up our steem community.
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I don't have any fancy tools, but I have been here a while and the key names are known. Then, just follow the trails.
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Sounds like detective work? I like it 🙂 time to go exploring..
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http://www.steemreports.com/
https://steemworld.org/
https://steemdb.com
https://steemd.com/
Pretty much all I am technically able to use :)
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Works for me - thanks
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Holey macaroni. But she seemed so sweet.
All kidding aside, that's truly unfortunate. Early on I thought her content was quite good and even voted a few times. This kind of shit makes me feel like I got used.
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Yeah, I hate that feeling. Not the first or the last I assume.
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One guy once told me, "You know what dude? I was once one of those people who was only nice to you for a comment upvote." I was shattered...
LOL! People...
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Ina world where there are animals like highly toxic jellyfish that have no brains, we are still the strangest animals on the planet.
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This will be interesting to watch, I had forgotten a lot about this uproar two years ago. It should bring back some pretty exciting discussion to read, is it or is it not your vote, are you are you not allowed to vote for what/who you want. I think one thing the free down votes has done is brought a lot more potential for late evening drama, Soprano's verse the God Father.
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Many have, many never knew as they stay narrow. I keep my eyes open and patiently wait. There are so many things of potential here but there is an order of process.
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Thank God you weren't here to see the glory of coordinated, total lock down on votes over a certain amount of vests by flagging whales, the community loves it, the fudders were asphyxiating from the lack of drama such an large amount of flags were unleashed, systemically wiping away rewards.
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That's shocking and needs to be stamped out. I wanted to do my part and used some of my Downvote, Now, my stake is still quite small but strangely my downvotes seemed to add and not subtract from the payouts. What witchcraft is going on here?
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lol. I think it depends on what is happening in the pool in general. Remember that downvotes mean that it gets redistributed to all other posts. That means that when a (especially a large) downvote goes on a post, the ones with very large payouts will go noticeably up. That is why all needs to be eventually sorted out so that the downvoting redirects to decent content.
This might interest you in regards to that circle.
https://staging.busy.org/@anomadsoul/ocdb-and-downvotes-or-a-newsteem-approach
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I think That post went from $19.06 to $19.36 with my downvote. Still Doesn't make sense to me.
Yes I saw that post from ocbd so glad they are going to tackle this issue.
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That's impossible unless some else upvoted in the same time window.
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It was a very strange but you are probably right maybe at that moment another vote came in,
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Uff... We have A LOT of cleaning to do, better get to it.
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Yep. Trending was nice and public, there is more much less so.
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Hello dear @tarazkp.
This magnificent publication should bring many of us to reflection, above all it should turn on the alarms to steemcleaners.
Most of the users that make life on steemit try to contribute valuable content to the platform, encourage the feeling of community and mutual support. It goes without saying that for some there is also an intention to monetize in some way, but in general we all choose the "legal" way to reach our goals.
This wild method of extraction that you have described to us in such an intelligent and detailed way is affecting us all.
I wonder: This could not cause a significant impact on the market and therefore affect the value of the steem?
It is very striking that steemcleaners being able to detect plagiarism and other behaviors have not yet taken actions related to this fact of old data.
Thank you for this valuable post.
All best, Piotr.
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This had an affect at least:
https://steemit.com/newsteem/@tarazkp/that-de-escalated-sweetsss-ly
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This promoted content generated 0.138 STEEM in curation reward payback. Thanks for using Steemium.
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I don't use Steemium...
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