Cherries picked from Kropotkin's Mutual Aid.

in anarchism •  6 years ago  (edited)

You can thank @mysearchisover for this one.

https://steemit.com/capitalism/@mysearchisover/mutual-aid-a-funadamental-basis-of-capitalism-supported-by-an-anarchist-109

I hope you take a few minutes to show him that vote selling bots may give you rep and roi, but they don't make good conversation.

Some more cherries I've helped him to pick.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution#toc4

We saw how few are the animal species which live an isolated life, and how numberless are those which live in societies, either for mutual defence, or for hunting and storing up food, or for rearing their offspring, or simply for enjoying life in common. We also saw that, though a good deal of warfare goes on between different classes of animals, or different species, or even different tribes of the same species, peace and mutual support are the rule within the tribe or the species; and that those species which best know how to combine, and to avoid competition, have the best chances of survival and of a further progressive development.
It is evident that it would be quite contrary to all that we know of nature if men were an exception to so general a rule: if a creature so defenceless as man was at his beginnings should have found his protection and his way to progress, not in mutual support, like other animals, but in a reckless competition for personal advantages, with no regard to the interests of the species. To a mind accustomed to the idea of unity in nature, such a proposition appears utterly indefensible. And yet, improbable and unphilosophical as it is, it has never found a lack of supporters. There always were writers who took a pessimistic view of mankind. They knew it, more or less superficially, through their own limited experience; they knew of history what the annalists, always watchful of wars, cruelty, and oppression, told of it, and little more besides; and they concluded that mankind is nothing but a loose aggregation of beings, always ready to fight with each other, and only prevented from so doing by the intervention of some authority.

Tldr:  When folks fight tooth and claw for rewards they don't do as well as when they work together for mutual benefit.

I think you might have missed that one, msio.

Buying rewards isn't as good for you as reaching out to folks and building relationships.

Human nature is to help each other, not profit at the expense of others at all costs.

At a time when men were dwelling in caves, or under occasionally protruding rocks, in company with mammals now extinct, and hardly succeeded in making the roughest sorts of flint hatchets, they already knew the advantages of life in societies.

Folks do better working together.

Going now over to the existing savages, we may begin with the Bushmen, who stand at a very low level of development — so low indeed that they have no dwellings and sleep in holes dug in the soil, occasionally protected by some screens. It is known that when Europeans settled in their territory and destroyed deer, the Bushmen began stealing the settlers’ cattle, whereupon a war of extermination, too horrible to be related here, was waged against them. Five hundred Bushmen were slaughtered in 1774, three thousand in 1808 and 1809 by the Farmers’ Alliance, and so on. They were poisoned like rats, killed by hunters lying in ambush before the carcass of some animal, killed wherever met with.

Tldr:  Read it ain't that long.

Here is your crapitalism raising savages out of poverty.

I won't mislead you here, dear reader, this one is a task to read.

If you are anthropologically minded, this is a good one.

If you are a know it all wannabe, it is a must read.

But if you are not either of those, I'd skip this one in favor of The Conquest of Bread.

If you can tear yourself away from the cat videos long enough to actually pursue knowledge instead of mindlessly melding with the flashylight box, that is.


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How did I miss this? I'm a bad stalker. lol ;)

From what I have seen and read and researched capitalism does help people get out of poverty and socialism and communism helps put them into poverty.

Perhaps you should stop reading the choir's handbooks and read some of those i linked for you?

I skimmed them like I've skimmed the communist manifesto but I support free market capitalism. It worked out very well for the USA when we used it. We should go back to it.

If crapitalism leads people out of poverty why are there still slums.

Here, skim this one and tell me how crapitalism worked for these folks.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/140

Not enough capitalism and too much corruption and bad people and also ignorance.

Things should have been better then and they should be better now. Hopefully our food is better now but it might even be worse. :( I think capitalistic principles are a reality but we as consumers do need to use our power to try and improve things and we as citizens also need to try and improve things. We probably need to get rid of 50-90% or regulations but I think there is a need for a few new ones.

Yep, time to take our freedoms back into our own hands.

You should run for office. The reality is we are in a democracy and a lot of times the tax slaves don't even have a choice because nobody runs.

Reading takes a bunch of time, that's why we have memes, don't have to read just look at it.

It doesnt bother you that this trains the mind to think in soundbites, making reading more complex works impossible?

Yes it bothers me but there's too much to read and not enough time.

https://steemit.com/satire/@pompe72/evelyn-wood-speed-reading-4-steemit-course

This is true.
Its what makes good curators so important.
Putting your favorite sources on the chain is a worthy endeavor.

If I up-vote this post via a bot, is that bad? my vote power is low, from up-boating newbies.

You're pretty high right now. You're at .18 on upvotes. You could upvote her comments and I could follow behind. My solo upvotes do not count.

Follow my lead. :-)

You got to decide what is right or wrong for you.
I will have to change the tag if you do, but i can manage that.

But this is not about me.

Well, i wouldnt use a bot if it meant losing a finger, but if you think it is worth the rewards feel free.

I have no idea what the rewards will be, you will have to let me know, I just wanted to share some appreciation is all. Thats the way I roll. You supported me early on, just repaying the favour, under no duress.

You could upvote some of her comments.
https://steemit.com/@freebornangel/comments

Yep, i know.
You are helping me for the same reason i helped you, to make the world a more loving, caring place one person at a time.

Pay it forward, and it all comes back. :-) kudos.

Thanks for thinking about me!

You already know I do not need the money, I never came for that, I came to share, and share I will.

Kropotkin makes some quite lucid and reasonable points. They certainly don't indicate that concentrating wealth in the coffers of a few, as bots do, is beneficial to anyone or anything in the long run.

As you point out, it is that acting out of mutual self interest is beneficial to all in the long run.

Sad that we'll have to see this demonstrated yet again quite soon.

Thanks!

I think bots can help create wealth for people on this platform and the platform as a whole.

The cost of bots isn't limited to the payments for their votes. Consider how curation is degraded thereby, and how that impacts the people who speak for reasons besides mere financial profit.

Bots are far more expensive to the system than only in financial terms, and Steemit is much more than an economy.

You could use bots to improve curation. I think you make a valid point but I do see bots as a proof of work concept and also a way to add some very badly needed value to the steem token.
I think the low value of steem is worse than the bots. I think the bots do help raise the value and increase earnings.

Curation is the process of upvoting content approved by people. Bots are the Anticurator. There is zero qualitative judgement in an automated vote.

Bots also decrease the value of Steem. Steem has value because people have it to use. Bots concentrate Steem in the accounts of those that already have the most of it.

I think bots increase the value of steem because it provides investors with an ROI and it also has a proof of work aspect to it as well.

I think history shows that doesn't encourage positive investment. Those investors I am aware of (not the original ninjaminers, but folks that paid cash for Steem) of consequence have simply used their stakes to sell votes, and gain a return, rather than spread Steem to more user's accounts, and thus put upwards pressure on the price.

The ROI gained from votebots concentrates Steem in accounts, rather than disperses it more widely, and thus do not put upwards pressure on the price. The various other mechanisms that have provided ROI on the platform, circlejerks, selfvotes, etc., neither spread Steem around, and have similar effect--even worse--to votebots.

Moderate delegations do increase dispersal of Steem, and thus put upwards pressure on the price, and might also potentiate modest ROI. Investors throughout and prior to recorded history have relied on capital gains as the provider of ROI, and moderate delegations do that too.

No rewards mining could compare to the gains potential to traders, speculators, profiteers, and investors of substantial price increase in Steem. I reckon the wide perception of unfairness by new users seeing the oligarchic distribution of Steem is the primary reason for the ~10% YOY retention rate, and this the primary reason for relatively stagnant price of the token.

I think the steem price would be lower without the investment.

You could help disperse it.

I think steem is a bit different because of its annuity factor.

I think we do need to work on user retention. I think some bots could help with that if we had better training.

Yep, we will not be saved by crapitalism.

For every ten it raises from poverty the backs of eight are broken by it.

I seriously doubt he actually read the book.

Nah, he cherry picked the first thing that fit his narrative and decided that meant that anarchy and crapitalism are compatible because the lie crapiutalism tells is similar to what Kropotkin said.

Ive read it, but only because i was in a country where i didnt speak the language and had alot of time on my hands.

That's what they always do comrade.

They prefer half truths to truths.

Its convienent for them.

  ·  6 years ago Reveal Comment

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You will probably want to stop putting the same comment on many posts.