Anarchy MisunderstoodsteemCreated with Sketch.

in anarchy •  5 years ago  (edited)

anarchy-1543808_640.jpg

The hardest battle for the anarchist isn't against the police, the courts, the military, or any other aspect of government. It is the battle against bad ideas and misunderstandings. To most people, the term anarchy still means "violence and chaos," while government means "peace and order," despite the history of wars and police state abuse, or examples of voluntary peaceful cooperation in communes and markets alike.

As a case in point, there is a historical period of British history commonly called The Anarchy, and this problem of semantics struck me as I was listening to The History of English Podcast episode discussing that period. Does it not seem strange that a civil war between two would-be monarchs (rulers) resulting in rampant oppression and abuse of the general populace by feudal lords (rulers) would be called The Anarchy (no rulers)? The problem was not the absence, but rather a surfeit, of rulers. Despite the generally-discredited Great Man theory in history, the implicit assumption in most historical analyses is that a stronger strong man needs to control the other strong men in society in order to keep them in line and maintain law and order, neglecting the obvious problem that a single strong man is still arbitrary ruler usurping authority wholesale.

Of course, we are so much more enlightened nowadays. We have periodic elections to legitimize the political class instead of relying on the divine right of kings. We choose new figureheads whose campaign promises we like best despite knowing those promises will be broken. The wisdom of the masses who beg for empty political promises is so much more progressive! The political system runs on a perverse bureaucratic inertia that is highly resistant to meaningful change or the surrender of powers once they are usurped. The psychological effects of power always result in corruption even if good people with good intentions are elected, and never mind the economic calculation problem of political monopoly power and tax-funded bureaucracy or the Dunning-Kruger effect blinding those with such power to their ignorance and impotence. So remember, folks, anarchy is dangerous. Now obey the myriad byzantine laws your betters have imposed upon you, and denounce anyone who questions the status quo as a traitorous malcontent out to destroy society.

Wait, no, that's the opposite of a rational response to politics, history, and economics. Of course, this is not to deny a need for rules. True law is discovered through reason, not imposed by distant strangers in marble halls with strange ceremonies. No one has the authority to rule others, and trespass against others is always a crime regardless of badges, titles, or elections. That is what anarchy really means. No rulers. Voluntary association. Individual liberty. Decentralized services, including those traditionally ascribed to government. Is it not strange that those of us advocating this philosophy are accused of supporting feudalism, fascism, and wanton brutality?


Image Credit

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

Personally I think the biggest problem with anarchism on the internet is all the LARPing "anarcho capitalists" that wander around and spread misinformation constantly.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

Oh, didn't realize you were one of those ancap people, oops. Lol.

You can't have anarchism without eliminating power structures and hierarchies. It's impossible. Capital prevents equality, and there's no way to have a stateless society without equality that doesn't turn into mad max style ravaging.

Also pretending capitalism is "voluntary exchange" or whatever buzzword you want to use is silly and means nothing. Capital will never coexist with anarchism.

"... there's no way to have a stateless society without equality that doesn't turn into mad max style ravaging."

You say this from zero evidence. You believe it though it is demonstrably unproved. Further, I am convinced that personal security is presently being developed such that institutional power will become obsolete. When gangs of thugs cannot use force to take power or wealth from secure individuals, and neither can individuals, 'Mad Max ravaging' is just as obsolete as totalitarian collectivism.

No capital necessary. Just modern tech deployed rationally to secure one's person and property, with a bit of community mutual support preferable.

Who defines your property?

LOL Change goalposts much?

Just because you can't answer the fundamental question that defines your entire ideology doesn't mean I'm "changing goalposts".

My goal is to show you that you live in a fantasy world and if you can't answer that question, then it'll be a lot easier than I thought.

We can answer it. It's not obscure or convoluted. And you did change the subject rather suddenly.

Changing the subject isn't responsive to the prior dialogue, and is a tactical mistake. You demonstrate that my reply to your comment is irrefutable by moving to a new attack vector.

You are full of fail.

Lockean property rights aren't something that rely on some individual's authority for definition. It is a simple matter of the cause and effect of human action.

Someone is the end consumer of every good and service. Who has the authority to consune and produce? Individuals. Voountary exchange and original appropriation seem a reasonable standard to define this right-of-use, do they not?

Wrong answer. The right answer was: Government. Without government you wouldn't have your property. If you don't pay taxes, you lose your property, but I'm sure you know that.

Pretending that every "exchange" is equal is bizarre. Capitalism, at its core, is based on growth. Also, just because you didn't personally kill native people does not absolve you of your situation.

Now, we need to define what we think reasonable property allocation would be before we go on. I don't think any one person should own mansions or skyscrapers or plantations, or any other luxury mega-valued property type.

As far as right of use, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

Dogs and Octopi have property, yet no government. Every premise you believe is false.

Government doesn't create or protect property. Government by its very nature violates property. Taxation, eminent domain, civil asset forfeiture, registration, licensing, permits, fees, zoning laws, etc. are all violations of property. And when you suffer harm, government forbids competition with their monopoly in dispute resolution. Don't treat the sales pitch for government as gospel.

Why do you say those with greater ability are obligated to provide for those with greater need? Why does need grant authority to demand production? I say this as someone suffering from chronic illness, so understand that I am not a millionaire questioning why I should toss crumbs to the needy. How do other people owe me based on my need? That sounds like coercion, and I don't want to coerce, because I am an anarchist.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs." Even Proudhon asked who determines these, and when there is a dispute, whose decision stands. It sounds nice, but is in reality a recipe for authoritarianism.

You speak of "power" as an abstract. People are unique, with different talents, abilities, knowledge, and value scales. Sometimes this means a real power difference. The question is in how this power is used.

As I have stated elsewhere, "capitalism" is used in English to describe two distinct and oppositional concepts: voluntary trade, and political interventionism. The former does not lead to the latter. I see a lot of left anarchists conflate the two concepts and disregard the essential distinction.

I use the term "market anarchist" in hopes of avoiding this pointless semantics debate, but you brought it here.

Well asked! Thank you! Mad max is already here. What's next? !invest_vote

Mad Max, but with Tesla pickups?

Hey @jacobtothe, no, I was refering to the comment you'd answered with your question in regard with the conversation that followed already. And I don't mean to judge the commentator being Mad Max, but the world we already live in. I wonder how this chaos can be advocated while anarchism is criticised. Can only be externally controlled ignorance or misunderstanding. And only the latter can be addressed, right?

@andrepol denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient! ----> Wer ist investinthefutur ?

This looks like spam.

Hello @jacobtothe
This is not spam, the user @andrepol calls this tool manually, this will give you an extravote, allows small users larger vote.

Good to know. I wasn't sure, so I didn't downvote it.

More information can be found here, unfortunately only in German.

Oh sorry for that @jacobtothe, looks foreign to you, I understand. Thank you @cervisia for steping into the breach. !invest_vote True: @voinvote/2/3 is coming after it and upvotes the comment that is replied to. Please take it to be a compliment!

For reading foreign text I'd like to recommend the machine translator by deeply.com

@andrepol denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient! ----> Wer ist investinthefutur ?

"anarchists" who have an issue with voluntary hierarchies and power structures still require a bit of educating 😂😂maybe they will keep seeing your posts and ...learn a thing or two

I am confident some will. I am also confident some won't, as they are so intent on labels that they are immune to reason.

Voluntary hierarchies lmfao what?

Posted using Partiko Android

"Can you teach me how to do X, Y, and Z?"
Voluntary student/teacher hierarchy

"Hey, could you help me with this?"
Voluntary request for a subordinate assistance ot expert's advice.

"If you do X for me, I will give you Y in exchange"
The root of all eeeeevil capitalist trade endorsed by the ancaps you malign. Why do you condemn this?

"Do as I say, or I will hurt you"
Statism.

If you think student/teacher relationships are "hierarchies" by default then you have a severe distortion of how reality works. You can teach someone something without exerting undue power and influence over them. Telling someone a technique to make washing dishes easier doesn't mean I am an authority over them. Lol.

"If you do X for me, I will give you Y in exchange"
The root of all eeeeevil capitalist trade endorsed by the ancaps you malign. Why do you condemn this?

Again, your first principles mean nothing. That isn't what capitalism is, it's one small aspect that relates to it. Pretending that markets are inherently capitalist is silly and unimaginative. We had markets during feudalism.

The teacher/student relationship is definitely a hierarchy, and one of immense power disparity, yet it is not coercive.

We did have markets during feudalism. And feudalism plundered those markets, as all government systems do. Feudalism obviously wasn't capitalism. Feudal lords plundered land, food, and money. So do governments and their corporate cronies today. But this is all obviously in opposition to Lockean property rights and free trade, even though that is also commonly called "capitalism."

I don't know what world you live in, but if one person had all the knowledge, I'd see your point. This is 2019, we have the internet, and we have millions of people willing to teach. Your fantasy scenario of teaching being a natural hierarchy doesn't make sense in 2019. Maybe if it were 1208, maybe, but this isn't a Minecraft server that we refreshed a week ago, this is the real world.

It is confusing how some can mix voluntary association with forced redistribution of wealth and still consider themselves an anarchist 😂😂😂semantics

Anarchism has no hierarchies, wealth creates hierarchies, therefore anarchism requires redistribution to eliminate undue power. It's extremely simple 😂😂😂

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

That's not what anarchism is, lol. Pretending that student/teacher is the same as monopolistic hoarders of resources is a bit silly. Anarchism does not allow for inequality, because if things were unequal, they wouldn't be anarchistic as people would exude power over others. Power and capital are the same things, and you can't have a stateless society unless those things are dealt with.

Before we continue, are you at all familiar with the concept of property acquired through homesteading and voluntary exchange versus the misappropriation of plunder? These are completely different ideas. If I plant a field, tend the crop, and harvest it, who has a higher claim? If I offer a portion of the crop, or some other form of payment, for assistance in the project at any stage, who is being exploited? Declaring something "monopolistic hoarding" just because you disagree with it isn't conducive to rational discourse.

You're presenting these ideas as if this is a Minecraft server that we click reset on. We have to deal with the real history of our planet, and your philosophy doesn't really address that at all.

You have no "right" to any land that excludes someone else. All you're presenting are fantasy scenarios that will never occur and completely ignore our history and how we got here.

who is being exploited?

The people you took the land from.

We don't deny the real history. You obviously haven't been following the debates in our circles over how to return stolen land and offer restitution to those who have been plundered. I took land from no one. The State is the thief. We need to cast it off before we can begin any kind of restoration and negotiation to sort out the mess it left. But you seem to reject property, so how can you claim something has been stolen?

You shouldn't think that I am personally aware of your entire biography. You should present those ideas when you argue.

But you seem to reject property, so how can you claim something has been stolen?

When you occupy a location and prevent others from accessing it via force, then it's stolen. And again, there's a difference between historical significance and ideals for the future. We had property, it was stolen. We need to address that before we get rid of property.

And the moment you start "redistributing" other people's stuff you're a thief (a user of the political means)

Tell me this, did Bill Gates earn $106 billion dollars?

You should already know that Bill Gates relied heavily on political protections and plunder in amassing his fortune. IP laws, trade protections, subsidies, etc. are anti-market government interventions.

However, it must also be noted that we are all vastly, immeasurably wealthier as a result of the computer revolution. Imdustrialist wealth is measured in dollars. Our wealth is measured in goods and services, more efficient products, less paper waste, instant global communication, new forms of entertainment, automated drudge work that no longer rwquires time and labor, and so on.

Of course, with manufacturing in China, we do have real problems of literal slave labor and sweatshop work, but please don't try to claim I am somehow endorsing that.

Wait, you actually think one man is responsible for computers? Hmm....

So you agree Bill Gates didn't earn his fortune? So do you disagree with @dullhawk? If we take back what is rightfully ours, is that "thievery"? If someone steals my watch, and I take it back, am I a thief?

If someone steals your watch and you take it back, you are not a thief.
If you imagine someone stole your watch, but you sold your watch to them, and you "take it back" you're the thief.
I'm under the impression that Bill Gates used politics to get his money, and if so, he is guilty of receiving stolen goods from the primary thief: government. Go after the real problem first, then you don't need to worry about the little guys (and yes, Bill Gates is small potatoes compared to the State).

I'm saying in the case of Bill Gates and other industrialists, it's a messy situation full of nuance. I didn't say he was responsible for computers. He was the one whose software business did the most to make the PC as we know it into a household object, though. But his case is a blend of market entrepreneurship and political plunder. To say it was solely one or the other is absurdly simplistic. Government likes to blend its misdeeds with market action to gain an aura of legitimacy, and corporatists like to claim to be free market advocates while they feed off the subsidies and protectionism of government. That is why the word "capitalism" is such a source of fallacious equivocation in colloquial English.

"Taking back what is rightfully yours" becomes difficult with fungible cash. A realistic solution is to fight the thievery at its source in government and end the crony capital game instead of trying to trace the thread of finance. We may not be able to undo all political injustice, but at the very least, I think we can agree that stopping its continuation should be a first step no matter what.

And no, I am not saying Bill Gates was a Great Man whose vision was necessary to make the personal computer possible. The market was there. The technology was there. Had he not done it, someone else may have. Maybe Apple, Xerox, Tandy, Commodore, Atari, Amstrad or Sinclair would have become what Microsoft is now. Perhaps even IBM despite their bureaucratic bloat, although I doubt that.

How would I know?
If he stole it (which includes fraud and using government/politics to get his money) then he's a crook like any other-- just maybe more successful than most.
That crooks exist doesn't justify becoming a thief. You can't fight theft by advocating theft.

So would you say that a takeover of the state and using that takeover to tax Bill Gates' stolen money would be in order?

No. That would be absurd. See the response to your other identical comment. Plus, "tax" is just a dishonest word for theft, and a "tax" is never limited to the guilty.

If you'd like to try a vocal debate over discord, it might be easier to establish things rather than replies ever 6 hours. Andrea#0462 open invite to anyone.

where'd you get your house from?

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion at all, but I didn't steal it or coerce anyone into "selling" to me.

So you just got the house from divine intervention, then? Weird.

Your response is, quite honestly, crazy. It is a nonsequitur and a strawman.

I don't believe in the supernatural, plus trade-- which is how I got my house-- is the most human of activities; it's not "divine" unless you are contrasting it with theft which would then be the opposite of "divine".

It seems you would benefit by learning the two ways humans interact; the only two ways they can do so: "the political means" vs "the economic means". You keep advocating using the political means, which would make you just as guilty as you claim Bill Gates is.

So who got your house before you did and how did they get it?

I know who owned this house (and land) before I did, going back decades. All of the ones I know about bought the property from someone else, in a mutually consensual arrangement.

Now, I know what you're trying to get to, so let me go ahead and address it.

Yes, this area was inhabited by the Commanche before the first "white-eye" settler moved here. And before the Commanche drove them away, this area was inhabited by other Native nations, including the Apache. That's as far back as I know, but I'd be willing to bet that those who were here before the Commanche kicked someone off the land. As did the previous inhabitants going back to just a short while after the first humans migrated to North America. So, who legitimately owned the land that I bought? Who did I violate?

All inhabited land on the planet has been stolen and traded for thousands of years. At some point, you've got to wipe the slate clean, because you aren't responsible for the distant past. All I know is that I didn't violate any living person to buy this house, and I refuse to violate anyone from this time forward.

Where did your land come from? You talk "decades" but why not talk centuries? My point is there is an original sin there and you can try to pretend there isn't, but no matter how hard you do it doesn't matter. You having exclusive access to your land while there are homeless people is bizarre. However, you means anyone who thinks that they matter more over others, of course. And you and your billionaire friends (I say friends because you do their bidding and they love every last bit of it) prevent others from accessing areas they have every natural right to access.

The point doesn't apply to specific random people, it applies to a class of rich elites who buy up "land" and "property" and prevent others from using it even though it causes death and suffering.

Did you know we have more empty AirBNB apartments in the USA than homeless people? Explain to me how that makes sense in a rational society, and I'll immediately convert to your anarchocringerism.

Nothing should ever come at the expense of precious human life. Explain to me why you think you are better than someone else? What about YOU makes you more valuable than a homeless person?

I strongly agree with almost all you've said here. The following I do not.

"The psychological effects of power always result in corruption even if good people with good intentions are elected"

Rather than postulating the power corrupts, I note that it is demonstrably factual that the corrupt seek power. Since but few people aren't somewhat corrupt, when marginally corrupt people find themselves in positions of power, they more strongly effect corruption. It's a chicken and egg thing.

What people say and what they really intend aren't utterly identical, and it's a fact that people mislead even themselves.

Thanks!

Saying that power corrupts in no way contradicts the fact that the corrupt seek power. However, there is a pervasive myth that, "If only we get the right guy in office in this next election, all the corruption will be washed away in a tide of democratic virtue!" Remember how Trump was supposed to "drain the swamp"? Obama was the "peace candidate"? W. promised a "humble foreign policy"? I am certain all three were corrupt from the start, but they sold their campaigns on virtue. I think even Ron Paul and other politicians who have a reputation for fighting corruption were tainted by the power they held, though.

Interesting that you cite Ron Paul, who I was going to cite as the singular politician of which I am aware that apparently did not ever accept encomiums from lobbyists. I acknowledge that being an honest man is a terrible flaw in a politician, however.

Instead of wrangling over whether or not everyone, or only most everyone, is corrupt to varying degrees, I reckon adopting newly available means of production suitable for individual use, like aquaponics and 3D printing, as convenient and profitable in our particular circumstances, and then expanding those means to our fellows and families incrementally reduces parasitization and institutional power as it increases the profitability of our productive undertakings.

As development proceeds, the personal ability to manufacture modern security technology that is able to prevent armed thugs from projecting institutional force will increasingly render institutions of every kind, private corporation and state alike, obsolete.

Then we will be free.

Decentralize everything without begging for permission first.

Absolutely. There are no permits required to adopt emerging means of production suitable to individual use. 3D printers, aquaponics, CRISPR, etc., are all in the wild now and essentially zero regulation has been undertaken regarding any.

how do you decentralize healthcare?

Well, prior to Nixon, US healthcare was decentralized, and absent taxation (in the form of mandates to provide employee insurance) US healthcare was the best in the world, and least expensive. Both those metrics have worsened progressively as increasing mandatory benefits decreased free market incentive to keep prices down and provide better services. At the time many NGOs (such as religious organizations) provided assistance to folks unable to afford medical treatment on their own. This is why today many hospitals still bear names associated with churches and religious orders, even though such religious organizations often no longer are involved, private corporations having purchased the facilities.

Today AI, CRISPR, robotics, and other technological advances are concatenating to enable individuals to tailor nutrition and lifestyle control to their personal requirements, diagnose illness, and produce their own pharmaceutical and treatment regimens to cure or treat themselves. People dependent on government mandated nutritional information on food provided by Big Agra are hopelessly misinformed, poisoned, and then funneled into the Big Pharma profit center.

It is becoming rapidly less useful to seek treatment by institutional walled gardens of specialists controlled and parasitized by corporations, and horrible food quality is the cause of ~50% of epidemic diseases like obesity, cardiovascular illness, and type 2 diabetes, in the west today. Increasingly failing to undertake to ensure your own health is tantamount to suicide.

It is notable that medical malpractice and errors are ~the third leading cause of death in the West today. Little is potentially more profitable for individuals to undertake than avoiding that murderous industry.

Okay, so how do you explain the best healthcare systems being universal government funded ones today? That kind of debunks your whole homicidal thesis.

I agree with the idea of anarchy but there is one problem with this. In anarchist countries, communist and any other supporters of totalitarianism can create big structures in cooperation with big businesses and concerns to finanse the services going to rule all others. 100 years ago in USA there was capitalism and after this big concerns and banks corrupted government to create totalitarian law and make the services stronger to execute that in public. Imagine - in anarchist country they don't even have to corrupt government. They can create their own and bring totalitarianism much faster. So anarchist is bad because it can't keep up by its own. So we don't need anarchy to be free. We need strong libertarian government projected as well as corrupting people there is impossible. It should be strong structure where everybody is looking on the other people in just to find corrupt and get reward for reacting using strong legalize tools.