I'm disturbed by many pictures and videos I see today of violent oppressors suppressing open dialogue and peaceful protest. One thing these aggressors often have in common is a uniform and a mask. They are anonymous in their adrenaline expressed action.
Police in Riot Gear
(AP Photo/Manu Fernandez)
Antifa
(Wikimedia Commons)
(And no, violence is not anarchy. Those who align with the initiation of violent force violate the NAP.)
The KKK
(Wikimedia Commons)
They all cover their faces. They act like mindless robots with no identity, following orders of their authoritarian leaders or tribal, authoritarian ideology. What is it about their actions which require them to hide their faces? Could it be somewhere deep down, they know their fellow humans will shame and ostracize them for their actions?
When looking at a picture or a video of some faceless aggressor, I wonder, does that person have neighbors who know them? Where do they buy groceries and who serves them food at restaurants? Where are they employed or if they own their business, which vendors work with them? If their identities were known and tied to their actions, how would it impact their daily lives?
I understand identity is a double edged sword. Some fear the power of totalitarian governments and feel anonymity gives them a level of freedom to defend themselves. Maybe that's true; I don't personally know. I've not yet lived in a blatantly totalitarian state where I'd find that useful. It seems to me, the court of public opinion in our digitally connected world is slowly becoming more powerful long-term than what's happening on the ground day-to-day. In this reality, being known can be an asset and a form of protection. It just depends on how far you're trying to push the current status quo, which laws you're breaking based on your principles, etc.
It burdens my heart to see women crying and pleading with riot police in Catalonia today. From what little I understand of the situation, people are attempting to hold a peaceful referendum and they are being met with violent authoritarianism. They aren't pleading with another human. It's a faceless, anonymous automaton.
What worries me most, I guess, is how the future may literally include robotic enforcers of political will. I hope it doesn't come to that. While there are still humans involved, I think we should all speak up about the need to unmask the faceless. Give them identity and, in that process, responsibility for their actions. I'm not calling for people to be DOXed, but I also can't ignore the reality of aggressors versus victims. If someone is initiating violence against someone else, action against them is defensive and justified according to the NAP.
We have to find the balance.
Related posts:
- The Myth of Authority
- Tribalism: Our Shared Enemy
- Privacy, Identity, and Human Flourishing
- NVC: Violence Is a Tragic Expression of an Unmet Need
Luke,
The images from Catalonia today only reinforce the idea that this is the true face of government. It cannot be reasoned with. It cannot be bargained with.
If they have power they will exercise it and the law will be used to justify the most egregious behavior.
Thanks for the post... I just put mine up, you might find them of interest:
https://steemit.com/politics/@goldgoatsnguns/the-true-face-of-the-eu-emerges-in-catalonia
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Great post, thanks for sharing.
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The situation in Spain right now is a good example of how quickly a so-called democracy can turn into a police state. If one of the American states were to try and secede from the union, these type of strong-arm tactics by the police will be on full display.
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Upvoted. This shit is unfortunately very possible in every western country. I know it's strange to see this in Spain in 2017, but if it happens in Spain, it can very well happen in Italy, Germany, England or Sweden.
I mean, violence IS the last resort for governments. They WILL use it. They are in power because they want to be in power. People with lust for power. It's as simple as that. Authoritarian people are the sort of people who seeks power in government jobs, on almost every level. Sure there are some good people too, but a lot of the time there are pretty bad people.
And when that power is threatened on the highest level, like in Spain today..it means violence. Governments can make you paranoid, they can use threat and the can use violence. And they justify it, because we have allowed them to have the exclusive right to use violence.
I'm also concerned about robocops and even robot lawyers etc. Some robot who you cannot reason with. No slack, no second opinion. That's why governments are scary. I don't think the concept of governments is compatible with the future that we want. We want technology, but we should have freedom, not authoritarianism.
I just wish all anarchists and freedomlovers would unite. That we could rally around the concept of voluntarism. That every man should be allowed to chose what sort of society he wants. And that no one can force him to join any society.
I know thats a lot to hope for..but as long as they keep us fighting each other, I don't think we can win.
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Well said. Today, individual government enforces still pick up their batons and swing them. If we can reach those enforcers and get them to change their minds about authority, there's still hope. What encourages me is the way the world is responding to this. Instead of "Well, yeah, that's just how governments are. Better not stick your head up to high or it will get lopped off." we're seeing outrage. We're seeing people get really mad about this.
In a way, we're seeing the man behind the curtain exposed as not being a great wizard after all.
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Yep. Something is changing in people, that's for sure. :)
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When hiding behind a mask, immoral behavior has less of a threshold. When someone with a violence monopoly (the state or the police) is masked, you can expect the worst possible things to happen.
I support your appeal to unmask all agressors.
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@lukestokes - I am in no way supporting autocratic and violent measures against peaceful protesters. However, I think I do understand the need for uniforms and facelessness of the foot soldiers of governments. I have seen too many situations during my travels in the world where the so called 'peaceful' protest turn into a violent mob in a murderous frenzy. The forces to be equipped to deal with such eventualities is but natural. What matters is how and when the 'use force' directive is effected by those in power. I do not blame the foot soldiers!.
Also - for a single law enforcement man, identifiable by the dark forces he fights against, the strength required for taking actions can only come from some comfort that his authority is symbolized by his uniform (signifying some 'support' by the government for those actions) and some mental comfort that brothers-in-arms who wear the same uniform, support him. The anonymity afforded by face masks is not desired by the foot soldiers necessarily but brings solace to them that their actions, taken in the line of duty - will NOT end up in being a nightmare for their families - Cases of negative elements seeking revenge on identified cops and law enforcers are too frequently seen around the world...
So, I guess what I am trying to say is that in such law enforcement situations, it is not shame or guilt that prompts the face masks and armor but in the case of the anti-social elements, the face masks are totally due to those reasons which you have stated. We perhaps can not weigh these two circumstances in the same balance.
Again - I totally agree with you that balance is the key and violence against peaceful protesters is utterly deplorable. Especially so in this particular instance mentioned in your post where innocent mothers with infants, waiting peacefully to vote were beaten up!! I condemn such actions! However, the factors driving the need/desire for anonymity could be different in different circumstances, depending on whether that is necessary in the line of duty or prompted by cowardice and guilt of actions.
Thanks for speaking up about this aspect. It does mandate debate. Upvoted full.
Regards,
@vm2904
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Great comment, thank you. I'm going to disagree with you, but I think you make a very good argument.
But we already learned from the Nuremberg trials that "just following orders" is not an acceptable defense. We have to hold enforcers accountable to their actions. They have to be held accountable for following (or not following) immoral orders. This concept of authoritarian structures defining action (and of tribal masses turning into violent mobs) is touched on in a couple of the posts I link to, but I know it's a very complex issue.
It's easy for us to just say, "Well, it all depends on what happens in the end." To a degree, that's correct. Those who use defensive force appropriately to protect the innocent should also, in turn, be protected. My argument is they will best protected by only acting morally, being celebrated within their communities for their valor, bravery, honesty, integrity, and action to help those who can't help themselves and something like Detroit Threat Management to protect those who need protection.
It's hard for me to assume government is good. Read up about a democide and you might better understand what I mean. 260 million people being killed is bad.
I agree, we need systems in place to prevent violent mobs. I'm not convinced the approaches taken by governments actually deescalate violence. Instead, I think they make it worse. If, instead, individuals within a mob (unmasked) could be held responsible for their actions, that would help. I'm also a fan of systems to prevent violence (such as NVC) instead or responding to it after the fact.
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@lukestokes - You made excellent points. I guess I am a bit biased about the possibility of mobs turning violent because of a few incidents where my family members or I suffered because of mob violence. I personally believe that the sense of duty and working to one's conscience brings it's own rewards. However, I see many of policemen in the third world, trying to do their job honestly and ending up with only misery, constant peer pressure for corrupt ways and sometimes even death, instead of getting the recognition they deserve. Hence my sympathy to the desire for them to be a bit anonymous when they perform their duties. I will read up on the Detroit Threat Management but even before I read it, I kind of suspect that there is nothing in Africa or Asia probably that matches, except for couple of developed countries.
I am with you on the aspect of governments not always being good. Yes - they do have biased motives, driven by agendas that are driven by some influential entities many times. However, again - in the third world countries, there is some semblance of order due to some governments who, apart from achieving their own hidden agendas, also maintain some law and order, which mostly helps the common citizens in their day to day lives. The situation is vastly different in developed countries where orderly life is the norm, upheld by most citizens.
Thanks for your detailed response. Very informative and I will surely read up more.
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I hope to have more traveling experience to broaden my perspective. From the outside looking in, it does seem to me certain cultural perspectives on morality in third-world countries are skewed. Could it be because the source of moral truth most people think of ("law" provided by government) is so completely corrupted that cheating someone else is the only way to get ahead? If those who set "the rules" cheat more than anyone else, what is incentivized other than becoming a better rule breaker than the next guy? To me, it's all game theory and it relates to Maslow's Hierarchy as well (more on that here). I agree, if we can't raise people up the hierarchy enough to see (though self-actualization) the benefits to themselves and others by acting ethically... well. yeah. It becomes a vicious cycle downwards.
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Sounds about right. I have often said that it is a vicious cycle with people stuck in an endless rat race. If you recall, I had even done a post, couple of months back, on trying to break free by imbibing values (a reverse Manslow pyramid theory) first over and above the needs of day to day survival. You had disagreed and said that it seems like first world thinking. I have been talking to people in Africa and India after that and found that, day to day survival does take precedence in everyone's mind but people are beginning to question being stuck in the same rut, day in and day out. I have a feeling that, some clean and charismatic leaders may be able to bring about a viewpoint change. Sounds very Utopian as I say it but hope and support is all I can do. There are many questions that stare us in the face and we find it amazing that no one does anything about it when logically, answers should be obvious. For example, I wrote about the cost of peace and world hunger in my recent post - seems very simplistic if someone wants to implement the solution but it is always like the story of 4 brothers - The Story of Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody! (I am including myself in the lot who talks and does not do much! Am trying to change that. Let us see) :)
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You're so right... communities (markets) could mitigate a lot of this violence if these faces were visible. Markets give a person the ability to buy and sell and to gain the esteem of his or her community. Seeing the faces committing violence would empower their communities (markets) to mitigate that violence simply by providing a disincentive regarding the perpetrator's ability to function normally within said community/market.
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That's the theory, anyway. :)
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The bad thing for me is, robots in such riots could be soon reality. But soon is relative.. We have such a pace of development in fields which are supporting each other like
Everything gets more intelligent, faster, much cheaper in large scale. It is said we live in times of exponential growth and nearing us the singularity which no one can describe exactly. But the development is so fast that we speak today of probabilities of the usage of robots in such scenarios and months later maybe in Japan or China that is just reality.
A robot could be
..and the controlling people behind disconnect their emotions after pushing the red button.. because the robots did.. and the robots need no cure of souls after harmed or killed people.
What holds people back today i think is the high price for such machines and that the technology is still far away to act independendly. For me it's more a question of time not if that happens. It could be 50 or 10 years, or just 5.. but i think for the dystopia it needs much time and i hope that we as mankind are conscious of each step in such directions and to avoid a world completely controlled by machines as i wrote in a post about robots and ai long time ago.
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Yeah, I explored this a bit in some other comments as well. It's a scary possible future, for sure. I hope we, as a species, can evolve past this potential outcome.
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i'm optimistic that we use technology in our favor. It makes no sense to create the Borg to let's assimilate. 😲
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Ultimately it's an act of cowardice. If you are going to try and hurt someone then you should meet them face to face.
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Some versions of NAP allow for violence against violence. Given the surveillance state we live in, it seems like innocents should have masks and government people should be unmasked.
Additionally, it also seems that video of government peoples keeps being masked, unless of course it meets their needs.
Thoughts?
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I wouldn't call it "violence against violence" I would call it self defense. There's an important distinction. My understanding of the NAP describes violence (in the physical sense) as an initiation of force. From that perspective, it's impossible to respond with violence as that would no longer be an initiation, but a response. If the innocents truly are innocent, why would they need masks? On the contrary, they should be known and celebrated as heroes, right? Those who changed the world for the better did so with an identity which could be known and a character that supported it.
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Thanks Luke, I'm still trying to learn the jargon of anarchy and the distinction of self-defense is obvious. So a next step on that would be what about asking friends for "reinforcement" in a self-defense situation?
Often only after a conflict would the "rebels" reveal themselves. My family when in Cuba wouldn't have been as bold. In much older Masonry, they were anonymous outside the order until a new level of freedom had been won. In fact, the whole order was anonymous until 1717. Governments can go after any combatant's family or other connections at will, so that anonymity is important from that angle as well. Also, in older masonry, they weren't interested in being celebrated as much as winning freedoms.
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That was a terrible day! They beat mothers in front of infants people who only wanted to vote. A girl they sexually molested in a voting center and broke her finger one after one making people watch and scream.
For them, the voters are the enemy. It's like the franco era.
Just go there, totally unexpected, with civilized people waiting in line to vote.. And then start beating them like crazy sending 750+ people to the hospital.
That's pure barbarism.
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Wow. I had no idea it was that bad. I read about a number of injuries, but that does sound like total barbarianism.
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Yeah man, it's in all sorts of outlets.. Many people took pictures..
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Nearly-850-Injured-in-Catalonia-Independence-Referendum-20171001-0014.html
It started a few weeks however when they started breaking doors and abducting people who were supposed to count votes and throwing them in dungeons.
Total brutality against peaceful people. It's sad man.
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what the fuck :'(
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Unfortunately, it just seems to be increasing... Here in the states, the present leadership has given the okay for the police to arm themselves with military type gear -- like they don't have enough already...
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"It seems to be" but statistics tell us violence is actually decreasing and has been over the last 100 years. We're just more connected and aware than ever before. Previously, we didn't know what was happening on the other side of town. Now we discuss what's going on at the other side of the world.
Edit: but, to your point, police violence and a desperate attempt by governments to retain power may increase as people long and expect to live free.
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I was trying to say.., the response by police or the way they respond has become much more harsh.
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Maybe, but enforcers of the state have always been quite brutal throughout history. I think the police have become more militarized, sure, but if we go there we have to also think about the very concept of "police" is relatively new and started on the docs in England (the didn't used to be armed at all). So I guess from that perspective, yes, the police in particular are becoming more militarized.
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I just get the feeling that the police feel more entitled to be more violent, these days... Back in the 1970's.., a cop might whack you a couple of times with his night-stick if you were doing something questionable, but at least they didn't shoot you...
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what's the show that's a lot of people
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Too much sad news from Span these days :(
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governments are insane.
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But where to go, this is the bestial grin of capitalism.
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The word "capitalism" has become rather useless, unfortunately. Those who are enemies of it, have a version in their heads that is worth fighting against. Those who are supporters of it, recognize how it has improved human wellbeing more than almost anything else in modern history (and yes, they have a different version of the word in their minds as well).
Comparing masked violent authoritarianism with "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state" is beyond me to understand.
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I subscribe to every word.
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Images are from Europe very similar to those of Venezuela that so much criticizes the Prime Minister Rajoy
I do not defend the Venezuelan regime, but I condemn it for its human rights violations, but I see that something similar happens in Europe
The state simply reasons only with the strength of its police
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Totally agree. Great post Luke!
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Scary fucking people.
That is for sure!
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This was an orchestrated act of desperation.
Spain has already lost the fight for Catalan.
For the people will not forget...
Nor shall they forgive...
As for masks... such is a moot point... The real villains call the shots - and they have faces and names.
Now the way has been paved for the legitimate armament of Catalonians to ensure that this cannot ever happen again - for they who try shall need more than masks to protect them.
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Unfortunately, the "real villains" are often just called "they." Or worse, they get lumped together in some big bucket like "the rich." Instead, I prefer we focus on actual action and whether or not it is immoral. For me, much of government (another big bucket) falls in that category because everyone who chooses to work for government does so with funds stolen from others and government itself represents a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic region. They use violence as a tool and I see that as immoral.
You just reminded me, I should update my post and add a link to this post of mine: NVC: Violence Is a Tragic Expression of an Unmet Need
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You are quite correct @lukestokes. Letting individuals retreat into collective masses serves neither the interests of the collective concerned nor their victims.
On the other hand there is something to be said for scapegoats and "fall guys" alike. Just because "somebody" is seen to be punished does not mean that (true) justice was served.
The reason that I hesitate to condemn the masking of an individual is because I am not convinced that I would be able to advocate the same across the spectrum of scenarios and possibilities. Protesters. Anonymous. Also Batman. ;c)
No - what the police need to get used to is a Resilient Population that can and will defend themselves regardless of who their aggressors are or what uniform they wear. Its become too fashionable for might to be deployed against the trusting and peaceful. And yes, agreed that such is immoral.
Incidentally - thank you for drawing my attention to your other article and commentary. Seeking to understand or simply being aware is a very useful tool.
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Batman!
Heheh.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on my post about privacy, identity, and human flourishing. I see some value in remaining anonymous, but... I also see problems with it. As to your comment about a resilient population, I thought it was pretty amazing to see fire fighters protecting people from police. Amazing stuff there.
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I couldn't watch the videos I've seen being shared today of those people getting attacked for trying to vote. They weren't a threat or hurting anyone, so why do the police think they can beat the shit out of people? Makes me feel ill. I was listening to a podcast by @geechidan that had some interesting points, like police are often ex soldiers so they are in that trained to kill mode anyway. It makes sense when you see these animals beating people often to death. Makes me mad as hell.
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Humanity is being forgotten it's sad to see where the world is going . Instead of helping others we tend to go against one another instead
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And yet violence is decreasing in the world. Seriously. Check out Steven Pinker's work, The Better Angeles of Our Nature. We're more aware of it in our connected world, but it is decreasing. We used to not know about the violence a few towns over. Now we talk about (and condemn) violence on the other side of the planet. It's not all getting worse, but we still have plenty of work to do to make it get even better.
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I don't know why people just can't get along and live there lives in peace, to much anger in the world
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Violence is everywhere.. don't know why people don't understand that nothing is there in violence... How they react in and how they just get involved in that.. I have seen that in India where that ram rahim case happened... People were burning cities insanely at that time and what they got? nothing!! but also got arrested and did lots of loss of government things and people's earned cars and buildings.. what they earned by their hard work of years and those stupid people just burned them in few seconds. That is violence.. and people were afraid to speak about a single word against them.. that is violence.. and that violence gives birth to terrorism... Government try their best many times to stop them but when they are not trying themselves to get over it, it can never m be stopped.. they believe those fake saints who inspire people to follow them but in reality they are just making their own army of stupid followers... That is violence.
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Hey brotha man. Hope you are well. Did I fall out of grace from the auto upvote? :D
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No, not at all! I noticed steemvoter is not being consistent lately. I bumped a bunch of accounts down to a 25% vote but kept yours at 70%:
I see some logs coming through, so it's working for some accounts. Not sure what's up there. I'll check out what posts may not have come through.
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Ah! I truly appreciate you. I thought I had made you upset with something. Thank you so much! <3
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This is odd... the logs say it did vote for your post (even though it did not):
I'll check with them on Discord to see what's up.
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How strange! Some interesting new algorithms? or just a hiccup?
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Checking now. Discord chat seems to indicate the nodes were acting up. Still though, it shouldn't mark something as voted for if it was not. Hopefully I'll learn more from them soon, and it can be fixed for the future.
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This violence was to stop an "illegal" election. This will not stop in Spain.
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Collectivist thinking leads people to support something "bigger then themselves"; so those who participate in such violence have no trouble with masking their identities. After all they have mistakenly decided to seize their individual sovereignty for their cause.
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And yet we are a social species and emergent properties of many of us together are real. Hopefully more voluntaryists and individualists will help find the balance we need to move forward and make sense of things.
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Culture is one of those emergent properties and I believe the most fundamental distinction between groups of people.
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It is, as is tribalism. You might enjoy the post about that I linked to.
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Yeah it's good, thanks!
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