(Click here to read my introduction to the perspective of basic income as basic resources)
A common concern of the idea of basic income is the idea of freeriders lazily freeloading off the hard labor of others, contributing nothing in return.
On page 177 of the book "Independence, Propertylessness, and Basic Income" by Karl Widerquist there's a very interesting argument for unconditional basic income I'd like to share which addresses such concerns.
He gives an example of a group of people on an island where a well needs to be dug so that everyone can have fresh water. Only one person is needed to do it, and so one volunteer steps forward to do it. The deal made is that he'll dig the well in exchange for a larger claim to resources than everyone else.
This isn't to say he's paid to do it. It's that instead of the island's total available resources being split say 20% for each of five people, that four people get 19% each and the volunteer to dig gets an additional 4% claim. Each person is basically giving up 1% of their claim to resources. No money is exchanged. The person digging the well does so for the rights to a larger share of legal claim to the island.
So now, even though no one paid for the well to be dug, and no one expended any effort themselves, are they free-riding? Are they freeloaders for drinking the well water for the rest of their lives despite not having helped dig the hole themselves? Will their descendants be freeloaders for being born on an island with a well none of them helped dig, with a reduced share of resources handed down to them by their own ancestors in comparison to the greater share of resources handed down to the digger's descendants who didn't dig the well either?
The question of freeloading assumes that not expending labor is freeloading, and it's just a simple equation. But this equation has other variables we all ignore, like time and how many resources we have a birthright to that we've given up our rights to claim.
Like those four people on the island, we've each given up a percentage of our claim to our island, but unlike them we have given up 100% of our claim to its natural resources. These natural resources were accepted as payment for all the work ever done and presently being done. It is only in places like Alaska that this is recognized. Instead of just letting companies drill for the oil they found but did not create, Alaska says that each Alaskan should see payment for the claiming of resources that were mutually shared prior to being sucked out of the ground by oil companies. Thus in Alaska, each Alaskan gets compensated with a dividend as just compensation.
Once you look at it this way, are Alaskans freeloading? Of course not. It's Alaska's oil and they're just the only state so far to recognize it. In fact, even that is only arbitrary because the lines of Alaska are imaginary. It's not Alaska's oil, it's really Earth's oil, actually Earth itself, and therefore something every human shares a common right to, especially when we burn it all and this affects the entire world, and not just Alaska. It's also not only about oil. There are many other natural resources to treat similarly, like water, forests, minerals, and the electromagnetic spectrum as just a few examples.
Many of those in the top 1% are in the top 1% because they and their ancestors dug the wells. They now control almost all the resources, and yet we pretend the rest of us didn't long ago provide them these resources through giving them our own claims, and the future claims of all our descendants.
No one with a basic income can ever possibly be a freeloader, because a basic income is compensation for everything no one ever created, and for everything created by those long dead.
Basic income is basic resource compensation.
It is a market correction to all the freeloading that has been going on for centuries.
A brotherhood of man!
It's been good to find you, Scott, and I've read a bunch of your earlier work since seeing your introduction post. I've been hearing a lot about UBI this year, and when I skimmed through that list you maintain of folks in support of it, I saw many whom I admire.
I've added UBI to my ever-growing list of revolutionary benevolent disruptions to keep up with over the next 60 years or so.
Best of luck!
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That's great to hear, especially about the spreadsheet I maintain of notable basic income supporters. That's one of those things I work on that I wonder how many people actually are aware of or track as it grows. So thank you for letting me know that was useful to you, and for reading my work.
Cheers to benevolent disruption! ;)
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Great post. I love the idea of universal basic income and as we're approaching a world of automation it's likely the way that we'll be going so I'm very excited. I know though that when I bring it up to people most people tell me that it'd be a nice idea but the very first complaint to ever come up is this idea of freeloading. I'll definitely be using some of these examples in upcoming conversations. Thanks!
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This is empowering as well, check it out http://annavonreitz.com/
I think that nobody can argue with a unconditional basic income and our deserving it, the only thing stopping it is the corporations run by the bankers, they even want to keep pretending that they are stil under contract while forcing everyone to use their fake ass money while it's been decidedly demonstrated that they have committed and are responsible for the biggest, longest going fraud in human history.
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I am into a money-free social premise though willing to listen about basic income. But thinking that UBI can succeed while cohabiting with our corporate monsters and centralization by governments is a form of irrational exuberance
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They aren't our corporate monsters, they are corporations, centralization by government isn't antithetical to unconditional basic income. I think you have to be more specific as to why and how government is going to stop ubi for being successful, especially if you consider that government hasn't particularly stopped or hindered ubi, ubi drives economy, poor people provide the demand that returns value back in a reciprocal fashion into the community much more than a ceo or 1%'er could, even if they bought 100 times more stuff and simply destroyed it, they couldn't consume as much as 101 poor people which combined don't have a percent of the wealth that a 1% has.
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I mainly think UBI will be inflationary - unless spending is heavily controlled, rationed. We are talking of 50-70% of population being jobless in 10 years from now. At some point it will go fast. My website reports on these trends.
arent banks corporation monsters? Centralization by government didnt succeed in stopping them. I dont see any difference between google or amazon and whatever central bank to be honest. Corporations and central banks are the hydra with two heads, and they control governments. So I do not want to rely on any UBI in this deceptive landscape.
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http://www.scottsantens.com/basic-income-faq
If you're asking 'Are banks corporations' Yes, but I was remarking that they aren't ours.
Arguably it is the very good faith agreement that they entered to provide governmental services that has succeeded and will succeed in stopping them. If you go to http://annavonreitz.com/ you an find out exactly how and why they have been stopped by lawful government.
Insofar as how they are ran, organized and charted, there is little difference, they are all charted and organized and ran in the same exact way, under the same statues and codes, the only difference is that the banks, IMF has committed innumerable crimes, from theft, fraud, extortion, murder, kidnapping and all this is documented, demonstrated in a public affidavit. People have been arrested and companies have been liquidated and this will continue.
Again, government is basically a service corporation like AT&T, they have about as much authority on the land and over people as AT&T has over their costumers, zero to zilch. The lawful government that is owed to everyone by the declaration of independence is still alive and the people elected who swore an oath to the constitution for the united states are still pursuing these criminals that impersonated out government and have kept us under status of war for over 150 years.
UBI is a sane solution that is in line with a brotherhood of man, if you go to scott's faq where he details the numerous questions and the incredibly rich answers sourced and backed up by factual and statistical data, you will realize that at most these concerns about UBI causing inflation, freeloading, the rich people will get all the money(wealth inequality), are either wrong or counter to reality.
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It all remains to be seen, because keynesian theories always work good on paper. As a metathinker and very aware of the economic shenanigans over the centuries, all monetary systems have proven that value is entirely subjective, and that is why they all fail. Same for any expectations which all fall short because time is too subjective. Time and value cannot be quantified.
When I said "our" corporation, I was being kind of cynical. But I am very concerned about any system that gives a free pass to corporations that have committed the worse humanitarian crimes and are still unpunished. There cannot be healthy system without restarting from scratch,
Here comes a major flaw. I completely disagree here as there won't be any possibilities to start up new business, competition will grind to a halt with automation/robotics/megacomputers taking over most jobs. Even hedge fund managers and surgeons will lose their jobs.
Investing in their future? The only future that exists is that humans will have to show their creativity with 3D printers, computers and support their veggie urban garden, which have began to pop a little bit everywhere already... we are headed for a future that will be driven by Creativity, Empathy and feeding ourselves without the need for any corporations, a voluntarist society. The competitive game is over. And the sooner we grasp this the better for the transition. A highly advanced society is de-materialzing the meaning of life, which so far has been about hunting money. That is the end of the paradigm. Continuing down this paradigm will lead to the total enslavement to the Hive Mind Cloud.
I fundamentally disagree with the word 'competition' , that are our darwinian frameworks that led us on the edge of the abyss in the first place so why continuing with the same faulty logic? I could go on and on, but it is my understanding so far is that UBI supporters have a poor grasp of the immutable Forces at play in the Universe, which is why I am drafting the metaphysics and metaphilosophical guidelines for a money-free and futuristic society.
Thanks for sharing, my reply to you is also included in my today blog
Time And Value Are the Only Adversaries Of Universal Basic Income, Greenspan Just Predicted A Major Crash
https://steemit.com/basicincome/@earthcustodians/time-and-value-are-the-only-adversaries-of-universal-basic-income-greenspan-just-predicted-a-major-crash
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very nice to see people like you here, upvoted!
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Hello - the premise is wrong... no barter nor trade is whatever fashion. And for people to grasp that you need new non darwinian metaphysics to educate people about objective reality. This is the most daunting task and speaking of anything else is like placing the cart before the horse. The change must emanate from the Mind first.
I agree that everything belong to Earth, there is no way to quantify this. Value such as time is subjective. Money cannot fix that.
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@scottsantens I have read your material and I really love your perspective on UBI. I think you should check out VIVA. This is a sleeping giant when it comes to this stuff. However the people instead of governments will be what determines this. Governments move too slow and reluctant for what we are currently facing in the world.
https://steemit.com/vivacoin/@williambanks/introduction-to-viva-a-price-stable-crypto-currency-with-basic-income-that-s-not-hypothetical
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I am familiar with VIVA and others like them as well. Thanks though!
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This post received a 4.7% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @scottsantens! For more information, click here!
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I love your explanation of why there is no freeloading problem. I think a lot of the concerns about "freeloading" come from the belief that a person's worth arises purely through the work that they do.
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The key point in your example of digging a well is the voluntary offer of labor in return for an agreement by the participants.
What's missing?
Force. Coercion. Government.
I would love to know how many of you supporters of this plan have formed and/or joined a voluntary association to share incomes? Any of you?
Why not? There is nothing preventing you from forming a voluntary association to give yourselves the very benefits you assert such an arrangement will deliver.
Plus you will get the moral benefit of not using the force of government guns to get what you wish.
So go ahead. Any of you?
Anyone?
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https://groupincome.org
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Are you a participant in this group? And, if voluntary groups are able to accomplish the goal why use the violent force of government to coerce something that can be done without the use of force?
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Why don't you request to renounce your citizenship? You obviously don't want to benefit from anything taxes pay for. Find yourself a nice home where government doesn't exist and you can live in a utopia where no one steals from you, except of course for the various crime lords, and organized gangs, and roaming bands of vehicles driven by skinheads covered in straps of leather hunting for gasoline.
The fact that you're using the internet, which exists because of government, and likely regularly using a smartphone, which exists because of government, surrounded by tax-funded infrastructure and tax-funded protections that help protect you and defend your rights make you a massive hypocrite.
Your utopia of not paying any taxes is possible right now. Why aren't you seeking it out? What are you waiting for? Leave. Find yourself a nice failed state.
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Actually it is people of your mind set who have changed what began as the type of society I prefer. There are plenty of statist governments to choose from all over the world, but there were no alternatives for us liberty lovers. If only your gang had followed your advice and left decades ago to find a society that already did what you doomed Americans to suffer we would all be better off.
If you really believe that we have smart phones because of government, or that the internet as it exists today is due to government then you really are misguided.
Of course you really are, because you think implementing a plan that will double the size of government and expand its power over our lives is your moral right and the people who don't want it should find a new place to live...
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I live in the real world where facts matter. You should try it sometime.
And the US DoD funded ARPANET. Learn your history. Knowledge is fun.
Also, I want to reduce the size of bloated government just like Milton Friedman wanted, and increase liberty just like Hayek wanted. So you can take your big state loving bullshit and shove it.
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You seem angry. A sign you don't deal well with differing opinions, I guess. As for real world facts, you do realize you are using Nancy Pelosi's argument that government is responsible for the I Phone, right? You can't get much farther from facts and the real world than siding with Nancy Pelosi.
Yes, basic research and development in military matters created the foundations of some of the advanced products we enjoy in the consumer marketplace today. That is far different than saying the federal government would have ever created anything like the I-Phone, or the user centered internet we enjoy today with all its market and consumer focus, all its commercial exchange. Giving the government credit for the final products built from foundations they laid long ago is just silly. We all have GPS in our cars, on our phones, everywhere, but the government didn't create the commercial success of GPS, and they wouldn't have. They just wanted a global tracking, targeting, and location system for military applications and they would have happily left it at that.
As for your desire to shrink government, its my turn to call bullshit. Every word you speak in the arena of basic income advocates for a larger, more intrusive government. You can say that because Hayek and Friedman made positive comments about a basic income that makes you their disciple, but I wonder how much Friedman and Hayek you advocate? Is it only the basic income?
In any event your attempt to make it appear the government is the source of commercial innovation in the tech field when they are only the original source of some of the basic architecture and research shows me you give too much credit to government and too little to the innovative, creative genius of individuals acting freely in a marketplace that rewards them for these deeds.
I'll not end my comment with a profane suggestion that you take your opinions and shove them up your ass, because that wouldn't be decent. Apparently you aren't either. The more you face adversity (and your buddy, Revo) the more you expose your true natures. Mean spirited, demanding agreement and acceptance without question. The very qualities that make coercion the great experience we all know it to be.
Have a great day, but I honestly hope you never, ever achieve your goal.
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Here's an article debunking the idea the government is responsible for the I Phone. You should really enjoy it because they mention you by name.
Well, you might not enjoy it, because they point out that you're dead wrong.
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/11/08/debunking-the-myth-that-the-government-built-the-iphone/id=62865/
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Hi Scott
I'm searching through the blogs discussing basic income today. Main reason is that i signed up for Swift Demand last week on the premise that this free registration would provide me with a coin related to daily income.
I've blogged about it today if you wish to have a look. And if you are keen, maybe you can blog/share your referral link to your followers?
Have a good day
Asher
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