Shocking Bid Bot Truth

in bidbots •  7 years ago  (edited)

Bid Bots

When you bid on a steem bid bot, you expect, that the round length is as declared.
144 Minutes long.
But is this always the case?
I looked into the voting patterns of all bid bots known to me and took their data of the last 30 days.

Data gathering

I searched for all voting transactions of every bot and took the time between those transactions.
Everything below 8000 seconds I did not count, most of the time deltas is about 1 minute, the time between votes, after a biding window.
from this data ( >8000 seconds) I took the median and the average mean and put it in this list.
This list is sorted by median, ascending.

BidbotMedian(Minutes)Mean(Minutes)
@aksdwi135149
@sleeplesswhale143149
@discordia144150
@moneymatchgaming144157
@steembloggers144160
@steemdiffuser144150
@lovejuice145155
@upgoater145150
@voter145151
@msp-bidbot145152
@kittybot145150
@hellowhale145167
@votebuster145148
@microbot145152
@upyou145146
@upmewhale145159
@mercurybot145151
@boostme145335
@seakraken145201
@voterunner145163
@minnowvotes145148
@mrswhale146258
@smartsteem146161
@ipromote146178
@adriatik147181
@levitation148154
@allaz149161
@upmyvote150154
@sneaky-ninja152157
@pushup152162
@booster152156
@yourwhale152169
@postpromoter153159
@jerrybanfield154161
@boomerang156171
@minnowhelper157164
@nettybot159169
@buildawhale177183
@appreciator178184
@upme186192

Analysis

This is very revealing.
It seems, that a lot of bots wait, until they are profitable and execute the voting.
My own bot, @microbot, needs 145/152 Minutes between votes.
I consider this not good, but ok.
I have no idea, why the mean is over 150 for my bot, as it runs in a 3 minutes cycle.
Sometimes, the RPC fails, and the bot has currently 0 profit, nothing to run my own RPC on.

But everything over 150 on median and mean I would consider cheating not really nice for the user, but in most cases necessary;).

I don't expect any owners of those bots to answer me.
But you, dear reader can make your own guesses.
And resteem this, or if you want, I can give you more details/codes/data, to continue this topic on your own and post your own analysis.

Update

@themarkymark explains, why @buildawhale needs 160 minutes or longer:

We wait to 100% every round, like all the other bots. If our votes take up more than 2% that means it will take longer to recharge.
When Steem was 0.86, we would get 30-60 bids per window and most were higher than the minimum bid. Bidding windows were extremely consistent and almost perfectly 10 a day.
Now that Steem has climbed 500% we receive a lot more bids as it is still profitable. A majority of the bids are the minimum amount which gives a better return due to rounding errors. This increases how long it takes to bid which isn't really a big deal until it took over an hour to do bids when it used to take 2-5 minutes.
Due to the fact, the number of bids increased by about 700%, the percentage of each vote went down dramatically and causes more voting power to be used (due to the rounding issues mentioned) per $1 upvoted.
That is the main cause of the windows taking longer, I have increased minimum bids to 2 SBD and now 2.5 SBD to decrease the unique bids per window. It still isn't perfect and we still drain more than what a 100% full vote would drain.
We doing the best we can with the tools available. As I said before when we raised our bid to 2 SBD, mathematically, our minimum bid should be 5 SBD, but I don't want to make it unavailable to small users.
There is nothing malicious going on, at least in our case, it's just the inefficiencies showing themselves as things scale.

Thanks, that explains a lot for me!
:)

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Hi, very nice to see your post!Thanks for you share!

SPAM!

The larger SP bots will have a hard time keeping the windows to 2 hours and 40 minutes due the increase amount of small bids and Steem blockchain rounding errors. This causes more VP to be drained per round and is why many of us increased our minimum bid to reduce the number of bidders per round.

You also have a 23 second delay between votes and some rounds used to have 280 bids before we raised our minimum bid.

A round is also 2 hr 40 minutes so 160 minutes not 144.

I do not count the time of voting.
What shown here is the time from last vote to next vote.
Meaning, in the original data, there is a lot of "<60 seconds" data, the time between each vote during a voting cycle.
What you can see here is just the time of the "bidding cycle", the bot waits for 144 minutes to pass on.
I get it, that it needs some more minutes to collect all data.
But + 30 Minutes between voting cycles, isn't that a bit long?
Maybe I shouldn't have framed @buildawhale as cheater, I know/hope, it isn't as you (and @buildawhale) do much for the community.
And you also introduced some extra voting, but how long does this take?

280 bids x 23 second. That’s how it was when we had 1 SBD minimum. Even at 2.5 SBD minimum we still going over 2% voting power per window. Right now using about 2.5% per window due to rounding issues.

ahh, so you count voting time into a bid cycle?
I don't do this.
hmm.. I always thought, the bot should close, when voting.
bids closed, off to work.
Votes closed, open for bids:)

And I even prepared this histogram for @buildawhale:

No I don’t but it does have a minor effect. The main problem is the voting power usage.

But if you wait longer, aren't there even more bids coming into that window?
That means even more drainage of VP?

We wait to 100% every round, like all the other bots. If our votes take up more than 2% that means it will take longer to recharge.

When Steem was 0.86, we would get 30-60 bids per window and most were higher than the minimum bid. Bidding windows were extremely consistent and almost perfectly 10 a day.

Now that Steem has climbed 500% we receive a lot more bids as it is still profitable. A majority of the bids are the minimum amount which gives a better return due to rounding errors. This increases how long it takes to bid which isn't really a big deal until it took over an hour to do bids when it used to take 2-5 minutes.

Due to the fact, the number of bids increased by about 700%, the percentage of each vote went down dramatically and causes more voting power to be used (due to the rounding issues mentioned) per $1 upvoted.

That is the main cause of the windows taking longer, I have increased minimum bids to 2 SBD and now 2.5 SBD to decrease the unique bids per window. It still isn't perfect and we still drain more than what a 100% full vote would drain.

We doing the best we can with the tools available. As I said before when we raised our bid to 2 SBD, mathematically, our minimum bid should be 5 SBD, but I don't want to make it unavailable to small users.

There is nothing malicious going on, at least in our case, it's just the inefficiencies showing themselves as things scale.

Thanks!

Am I blind, or is @buildawhale not on https://steembottracker.com/ anymore?

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Wait, there seems to be a calculation error:
A day has 10 rounds
-> a round = 2.4 (24h/10)
-> a round = 2.4 *60 = 144
an hour has 60 Minutes, not 100;)

That works if voting power was perfect and we used 2% every window, that's not the case anymore. Due to the price of steem, there are more bids and most are at the minimum amount to take advantage of rounding errors.

_

Interesting topic about bots, I want you to explain to me about these bots and how to work with them. Thanks for the information. I like it.

Just have a look here:
https://steembottracker.com/

Everything you need to know is explainedthere by @yabapmatt.
;)

Thanks

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