I decided to run a test today, comparing the fees and transaction times for Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash transactions at the same time. Yesterday I interviewed Roger Ver of Bitcoin Cash in a "1st on Steemit" interview, which you can check out here: https://steemit.com/dtube/@davidpakman/zp9x9utr
Two of his primary selling points around Bitcoin Cash were cheaper and faster transactions than Bitcoin, and I decided to test those two variables today.
At 4:03pm eastern US time, I started transactions for both Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash withdrawals from the same exchange.
Speed:
The Bitcoin transaction arrived and confirmed at 4:45pm, a total of 42 minutes in transaction time.
The Bitcoin Cash transaction arrived and confirmed at 5:54pm, a total of 111 minutes in transaction time.
Winner: Bitcoin
Fees:
The fees for the Bitcoin transaction were .001 BTC, or U$D15.85 at the time of the transaction.
The fees for the Bitcoin Cash transaction were 0.00001980 BCC, or U$D0.0686 at the time of the transaction.
Winner: Bitcoin Cash
Overall:
For my two transactions, both initiated at 4:03pm eastern time today, the Bitcoin Cash transaction was 99.56% less expensive, but took 164% longer to confirm and make the funds available.
For future transactions, my decision would be: Is it worth paying an extra $15.78 to complete the transaction in 62% less time?
How will both fees and transaction time evolve over time? Are there particular reasons this one Bitcoin Cash transaction took so long? Any other thoughts? Please let me know in a reply!
How did the transactions take so long? Did you use very small fees? Normally they should both confirm within 5 minutes, provided you use proper fees.
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I didn't set fees manually. I didn't realize you could. How do you set the fees with platforms like, Coinbase, Bittrex, and Binance?
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You can't set the fees with exchanges, you must do the test between to wallets, I recommend doing the experiment using two computers that you have with exodus.io downloaded and do a bitcoin and bitcoin cash transaction. Bitcoin cash will be just as fast as bitcoin but much cheaper but there is more to why bitcoin cash in the long run won't be as decentralized as bitcoin, which wasn't discussed in the interview and that was an in-depth explanation of block-size.
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Unfortunately, they just have a standard deduction fee depening on the Currency you are moving, end result is that the recipient will received the total minus the deduction.
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Got it
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Besides, litecoin is multitudes faster than both bitcoin and bitcoin cash, at confirming transactions and with low fees comparable to bitcoin cash.
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C'mon @davidpakman! You are the brand new star of steemit! Many people will read this post and therefore it is quite important that you state where you sent your transactions through..
You must send these from a wallet, as exchanges do not immediately process ANY request, and mostly they are totally shady in that regard.
You should state these things in your blog.. many newbies will get the wrong impression about this post!
You have to send from a wallet, and there are so many variables still..
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This is not an accurate way to test.
You don't know when the exchange actually initiated the transfer. Just because you hit the withdrawl button on an exchange, that doesn't mean the withdrawl transaction is immediately initiated.
An exchange will wait until it has a build up of funds to transfer and then perform the actual transaction with all of them at once (to save on fees).
If you really want to compare the two then you need to send coins between two wallets that you control. That'll give you an accurate picture.
I'd recommend you try it again between your own two wallets and then post your results. I bet they're much different.
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Thanks very good post @sydesjoke !!!!
Awesome Work!
Keep it up!!!
@cryptoinvestinfo
your CryptoInvestmentExpert
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I am shocked—shocked—to find that gambling is going on in here!
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You're being nicer than I will be. This article was a pile of turd; done with no real research, by a total amateur in the field. The median BCH transaction fee in December was 2 minutes long and was 2 pennies. I've done hundreds of tx and the money is usually there almost instantly, with some confirmations finishing 5 minutes later. For him not to realize that wallet to wallet is the only way to really test speeds, and to have done this from an exchange, it's absolutely a joke.
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I don't feel like he's intentionally misleading people, he just doesn't have the full understanding of the space yet. When he posts stuff like this on Steemit, where the community knowledge level of the crypto space is higher than most other places, he's going to very quickly have inacurracies pointed out and as a result will learn.
The more folks we have learning about crypto and the space, the better.
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He has made over $200 for his post compared marc five cents worth. I am new to steem and I recently bought some steem power. I think a lot more coinbase customers like myself would buy more steem power if they allowed you the option to buy it with the bitcoin cash that was given to bitcoin holders recently. Thats my two cents in. Happy Christmas and looking to get more involved in 2018.
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True, but this is a reflection of the large amount of followers that he has built, which in turn generates a large amount of reward for content. He has spent a long time building up a user base and now, at this point, anything that he posts will be rewarded at a high level because of it, even when the content isn't that great. Networking is a big part of Steem, you'll actually find that it often plays a much bigger role than the actual content when it comes to rewards.
You're definitely right about that.
Welcome to the platform, I hope you enjoy it here.
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As Eddie Murphy said in Trading Places. I believe I can hang out with you fellas. Looking forward to learning and sharing in 2018.
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LoL
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Screw people who are trying to learn and post the question publicly, right? I mean, it's not like someone else might learn from their mistake.
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I would cosign that suggestion... but wouldn't want you to pay those fees again... maybe just test out a BCH transaction... Likely 5 minutes or less.
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The real problem is that Pakman is a novice who want to pretend that he is knowledgable. Pretence is something that you want to aware of when it come to agenda setting personalities.
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Well worth the $200+ in upvotes for posting this incredible analysis ;-)
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I think that it is an accurate way to test. In general we are only interested in the user end experience. So the user end experience is the only part that needs to be tested. But you are correct that there are more accurate methods to test the inner working of the transfer.
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Appreciate your thoughts, but the reason that statement is wrong is because (as his title states) he is testing BTC and BCC transaction times. This test is not accurate because he is using a control group as a consistent (the exchange) that he has no control over.
It's the same as saying "I'm going to test which airplane is better by seeing which one makes it to my city first. Ready, Go!" Obviously whichever company gets the plane off the ground and into the air first is going to have a headstart on getting their model of plane to you first.
So really he's testing the company not the product. If his title were "How do Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash transactions compare when sent from ABC Exchange?" Then it would be a more accurate test. And even that test would be worth about nothing because you'd have to collect a ton of different data points before a true average set in.
If that's the case, with this test, your subject is the Exchange not the coins and as such no opinion at all should be drawn about said coins. That's not what's being tested here.
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Really? Which other ways do you think its the best?
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Estou pensando em realizar um teste desse modo, obrigado pela dica!!
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Costs Trump Speed. 99.6% cheaper??? NO-BRAINER!
I just posted a rant about Bitpay not working with Exodus wallets. Basically, I have to transfer my BTC from Exodus to Electrum ($50 cost) before I can send it out over the BitPay network (yet another transaction fee).
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@sirstacksalot/bitcoin-payment-protocol-sucks-for-us-exodus-users
I hope BCH stomps the SH#*# out of BTC for that reason alone!
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Arent also fees declining on the Bitcoin Core network now as prices are crashing? Unconfirmed are at 200k now, down from over 300k two days ago.
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Indeed a nice experiment.. how about adding more altcoin and do the same test
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Thanks for the info . I love steemit because it keeps us up to date on all blockchain related updates thanks for your hard work!
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twas the night before Christmas... only a NEM is stirring.
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I don't think there's any debate on which one scales better (cheaper and faster) I think it comes down to which one is more decentralized and secure. If speed and txs speed were the most important aspect than both would be at the bottom of the list of the entire alt market.
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Ver talked abou the network effect in your interview. My belief is that the core devs will improve the protocol, i.e. faster confirmation times by implementing what Bitcoin Cash originally proposed, when Bitcoin Cash becomes a threat. Given that, I don't see Bitcoin Cash competing once Bitcoin brings down the transaction fees and lower confirmation times. User inertia on Bitcoin network is a real thing, just like user inertia on other platforms.
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What about the security of BCash is this important for you?
If you want to buy a coffee with your cryptos then BTC is may not be the right asset to use it for.
If you want to store in a secured proven way since years, then there is BTC still proven unhacked.
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Security is important to me. I am learning as much as I can about all of these options.
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Not sure I agree with this at present. BT Cash is exactly the same up till the 1st of August 2017. BTC went the segwit way, BT CASH decided to say exactly the as always, except, they increased the block size to 8 mb from 1 mb. So now this seems like a good idea to increase speed and lower fees, but this will get congested over time and increased usage. Looks like the Bitcore team want to leverage newer scalable layers on to of the current 1mb block size chain, but can't decide. So in summary, BT cash took the easy less innovative way for a short term gain (IMHO).
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I am not sure if i get your point.
Bcash did nothing new. There are hundreds of forks allready doing bigger blocks and they are called altcoins. All good needs time for development.
I agree with your last words that BCash took the easiest way to gain ... (IMHO to gain for their own profit)
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Yep, my apologies, I meant that the crytography is still the same for both up until 1 August 2017, hence security is the same, only the block size has increased, thats the only difference. In terms of security, well thats a totally new topic, becasue many people interpret it in many different ways. The blockchain algo or the crytography has never been hacked, for both, if thats whst you were getting at. So the ledger has been and looks like, till the use of Quantum computing, will be totally imutable. Now if you talk about the wallets, and the handling of the wallets and Malware for them, thats another can of worms. Git Hub is there and the source code is open to view so is a good place to get wallets from. Some wallets from the bit coin forks can be malicious, hence caution is advised if you want to claim your free tokens, hope this helps.
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Da dein letzter Post älter als 6 Tage ist, vote ich auf dein Kommentar:
Ho Ho Ho! Hier kommt Dein 100-prozentiger Weihnachtsupvote! Danke für Deine Teilnahme an der Weihnachtsaktion. Frohe Weihnachten wünscht @eikejanssen.
Source
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When you say "to gain for their own profit" who do you mean?
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Danke @eikejanssen! Dir auch .. schöne Weihnachten ;)
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It sounds like the test not very fare.
It disturbed me that you didn't tried to pay more for your BCH transaction to make it happen faster.
Thus I hardly see any conclusions from this tests...
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It seems you may have been lucky with the BTC transaction. Because i was recently one of the people who had to wait a day. And my fee was much higher than yours. BCC may be a better option, but i have opposed it for long. Recently though it seems it may be better
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it is dependent on the number of pending transactions. BCC has only increased the block size to 8Mb, given time and usage, it will go back to being no better. BTC is looking to use other layers to eleviate the issue. Litecoin has recenlty implemented a the lightening network which is another layer, BTC could look at that pending concensus. LIghtening network, while eliviating the speed/fee issue can also bring about other issues however.
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Presumably Roger Ver has his backdoor injected on a daily basis.
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Yeah, the exchange is too big of a variable. You need to send from and to the same wallets for both.
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very good post, thanks!
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This is not an accurate way to test.
You don't know when the exchange actually initiated the transfer. Just because you hit the withdrawl button on an exchange, that doesn't mean the withdrawl transaction is immediately initiated.
An exchange will wait until it has a build up of funds to transfer and then perform the actual transaction with all of them at once (to save on fees).
If you really want to compare the two then you need to send coins between two wallets that you control. That'll give you an accurate picture.
I'd recommend you try it again between your own two wallets and then post your results. I bet they're much
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yeah that's a good point, I will redo the test that way
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That bot just plagairized my comment on this post to take advantage of the upvotes that my actual comment received and you just not only replied to it rather than the original post (which has been sitting at the top of the comment section since this was posted), but you also gave it an upvote..... doesn't reflect well.
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I dont think increasimg the block size is the solution for btc in the lomg run, but i do feel that something needs to be made! The network is completely clogged and i cant deny that atm bth is working better :/
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increase block size and faster block time should do the trick. not kludges like the lightning network
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Yes the fee is higher with btc but it is more safe and fast way to transfer big amount of money
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Of course it was obvious that bch will be better, but I still appreciate that you made this test! Keep the good content coming friend !
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Followed you :)
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You followed yourself?
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Obvious os a dangerous word to use, sir...
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obvious for me and most other people, and no, I followed the oc of this post.
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+he could have made the bch fee slightly bigger for it to be faster
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How is one person's transaction prove that BCH is better? Your comment makes no sense at all. That's like saying eating McDonalds is better because you get your food faster & it's cheaper.
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if bcash will be 10x (hard to tell) then the fee will be much higher, the same as BTC
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maybe make a bigger blockchain (segwit) think bitcoin cash is gonna become bigger J.hong WO bitbank
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Coinbase just added Bitcoin Cash. So that's one reason why it took longer. Plus you can't just test this 10 times & decide. It all depends on how busy the blockchains are. Bitcoin got much higher, because people that had lots of Bitcoin, cashed out when it was $18K & higher. That drove the transaction fees higher. Those whales really didn't care what the fee was, they wanted their big profits. If people would quit paying the high fees, it would lower.
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that's a reasonable comment
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As always with Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies in general, time will tell what survives. There is so much involvement in this market, and a ton of passion. The thousands of people involved in Bitcoin's survival makes it hard to believe it will simply be left to die. It won't happen.
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Litecoin is better than all Bitcoin avatars! Just try Litecoin!
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I might be of the subject. I think some might have to know this before the end of the year. Please help to spread awareness. Starting 2018 all crypto transactions are taxable events
Source?
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.
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I think they're both pretty bad. The technology behind it it's outdated, it's like sticking to a Ford Model T when you've got the Maserati in the garage.
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You need a huge amount of test samples to have correct data!
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I think it would better overview if you compared PoW for both the crypto, instead of overall time for transaction.
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#BTC & BCH is the best coin! Thanks for information
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How to get a better post How to get a lot of information from this post.
thanks for @davidpakman
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Just don't listen to some dude online telling you how to trade....
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This is not an accurate way to test.
You don't know when the exchange actually initiated the transfer. Just because you hit the withdrawl button on an exchange, that doesn't mean the withdrawl transaction is immediately initiated.
An exchange will wait until it has a build up of funds to transfer and then perform the actual transaction with all of them at once (to save on fees).
If you really want to compare the two then you need to send coins between two wallets that you control. That'll give you an accurate picture.
I'd recommend you try it again between your own two wallets and then post your results. I bet they're much different.
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My thoughts on why Bitcoin Core will remain on the throne, would be happy do discuss or just to get feedback since its my first post on Steemit. Cheers!
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@lordgaga/the-return-of-the-king
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Considering the scenerio from security aspect, i think the bitcoin took more time and fee due to its high level of security, or what do you think about this?
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Congratulations, your post received one of the top 10 most powerful upvotes in the last 12 hours. You received an upvote from @glitterfart valued at 131.97 SBD, based on the pending payout at the time the data was extracted.
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Congratulations @davidpakman, this post is the second most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Superuser account holder (accounts that hold between 1 and 10 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Superuser account holders during this period was 1120 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $8687.17. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, click here.
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@davidpakman while bitcoin is in mess new gen currencies are developed which do not need miners, fees and are nearly instant. check out raiblocks iota byteball. would be nice to hear fom some expert on those new tech
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i dont think we can actually run test between these two. but frankly, i too trust bitcoin because of its reliability.
Again this is my opinion.
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Do you think one will fall and the other will rise, or will they both be around for the long haul?
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I'm totally new to cryptocurrencies. Does it really cost that much to send transactions? What if you are only sending $5.00? Seems too high.
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problem is is only with BTC at present volumes. all other currencies has solved thr problem long ago. and this problem is somewhat artifical, just to intentionally slow things down.
next gen currencies will be feeless
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I understand what you are trying to do @davidpakman, but it is way more complicated than this.
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My preference is always Bitcoin.
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why you need to run test if all that data is free available through blockchain explorers?
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On another note,
Steem is infinity% less expensive (zero transaction fee) and 84,000% faster (3 seconds).
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Awesome test
check my opinion on bitcoin too!!
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@awesomerocksome/bitcoin-know-the-risks-before-you-buy
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If you put more fee in BCH transaction I would think that would speed up transaction. Wonder if it is possible to pay more in fees?
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Thanks for this valuable post.
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Humm strange.
Yesterday the average fee of Bitcoin was $52, Bitcoin Cash $0.27.
So, you have lucky. The Block time was almost the same Bitcoin $10.3 and 9.0 for Bitcoin Cash.
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I actually tried make my some transactions with Bitcoin and it was so slow I dumped it all and grabbed some lite coin and Etherium as well as Dash and EOS.
Then I grabbed some bitcoin cash, and thinking, I actually believe it’s gong to double soon , but was as you said slow.
I use a Jaxx wallet and trying to use Etherium, bitcoin, which was expensive with the mining fee, but I have to admit, litecoin and Dash Are very fast and low fees.
Bitcoin and bitcoin cash as well as so many alt coins will make you money, and what happened the last couple of days shows that you cannot panic but buy in when the prices drop like they did.
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I think in future bitcoin will solve problem with transaction fee ;) we need just to wait and trust ;)
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The fees for bitcoin are too much, You can't make a transaction of lower than at least a grand.
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I think it's a known fact that w.r.t mining feee and transaction speeds, Bitcoin Cash is far better than Bitcoin. But then making a comparison between the legacy 1st generation Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash that's less than a eyar old isn't fair - in fact, there are coins that replicate the exact use case of BCH and trumps it even better..
BTC is no longer seen as a currency for everyday transactions and will be looked at in future as a store of value - thanks to the brand value associated with it. Its mining though expensive is far more decentralised and it's not controlled by any particular individual or two. However, Bitcoin Cash is far more centralized, and their core team are some of the most powerful holders and miners in the world - the biggest drawback of BCH is that ost of Bitcoin Cash mining is done out of Korea and the bulk of the coin is owned by just Jihan Wu and Roger Ver - they control so much of the Cash and Hash that they negate the whole decentralisation advantage by controlling so much power. Ver has been very vocal about BCH being THE Bitcoin, which was Satoshi Nakomoto's vision - but it's simply not.
If Bitcoin itself finds a way to imrpove transaction speeds (lightnight network perhaps) BCH might just lose whatever advantage it claims to hold over BTC.
BTC is all-in-all the coin of the masses, and Bitcoin Cash is another altcoin that is a BTC spinoff, which has advantages over it's legacy parent coin but it is not Bitcoin - we just have to accept that and move on.
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Litecoin. BCH is a fucking scam. I am coming for you Roger.
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Just wait for the Lightning network. It will beat Visa and mastercard on Transaction speed and you can start paying for coffee just like it was intended.
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could this be dependent on the exchange you are using, and also most coins are still exchanged with bitcoin, so is it worth it to add another step to your conversion
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Thanks for the great info! I hate paying high fees for trades with bitcoin but if im buying a lot its worth it.
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Bitcoin Cash right now is coming out way ahead. Its like the old Bitcoin that we used to use to pay for coffee with. Just wait till you try Dash instant pay - its 3 seconds just like a credit card + plus many more features in the coming months.
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The low fee you paid on BCH might be the reason why it took so long.
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I think you should do the test like 10 times on different times at a day to get a more accurate result. Its still useful info tough. Need a "fast" transaction you can use bitcoin but if you have the time you can choose the cheaper alternative bitcoin cash.
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Thanking davidpakman, your past experience regarding btc transaction can helpful for us.
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