RE: The History of Delegated Proof-of-Stake (DPOS)

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The History of Delegated Proof-of-Stake (DPOS)

in blockchain •  5 years ago 

Yea, I also cringed when I saw the comment about blockchains having "freeze features". What you said about the "leaders" and "influencers" in the space not understanding the basics of the technology is unfortunately the sad reality.

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Instead of feeling cringy and superior and trying to be mysterious, make a post and explain the concept to the community. You are a witness after all.

Keeping people in the dark is a common thing among profiteers. The dumber, the better.

Its "cringy" because it was said by CZ, not some newbie or average user. CZ is one of the most prominent participants in the crypto industry, so for him to not know blockchain fundamentals is reasonably cringy.

The idea still applies.

This post discusses many ideas, some people will read it and undressed some concepts, they will probably understand (especially the decisions) the whole situation even better now that they know a few things.

Instead of silence, witnesses should spread knowledge and educate the community about the chain. It is well known that a dumb population is easier to control, a smarter population will keep everyone in check and accountable. Guess why witnesses were posting movie reviews and streaming games instead of doing what really matters?

Just accepting the final decisions without knowing why and how is pure slavery. Treating people like if they don't have the brain for it is also pure slavery.

You're implying that the witnesses have a responsibility to educate others, but they don't. You also seem to think that the blame for others ignorance lies with the witnesses, but it doesn't. Freedom Isn't Free. Only those who Seek Shall Find, and absolutely nothing excuses the utter nonsense, idiocy, and complete ignorance that CZ displayed. You though, seem to disagree, you think that despite the voluminous and completely public and easily accessible information about everything to do with everything, people are purposefully kept in the dark. Let me ask you this, if that is the case, by what miraculous exceptions do you think that yabbamat and others came to know anything, let alone know enough that you consider them as capable to share that information and knowledge?

You're implying that the witnesses have a responsibility to educate others, but they don't

Completely, if witnesses represent the will of the community (as some may say), then it is up to them to make decisions based on the feedback of this latter. The decision-making process shall pass by a step where they explain the changes to the community. if there are no changes planned, then it is up to them in most part to provide the community with information regarding any complex issues to help the community to form an unbiased opinion. Do you think the president of any country is an expert in every field of science? No. He has experts that help him create his strategy and elaborate opinions on different subjects. Witnesses should do the same thing since a lot of people (mostly average joe) are voting for them.

If you think it's not their job, that's another story and your opinion.

You also seem to think that the blame for others ignorance lies with the witnesses, but it doesn't.

No. Only if it's your job to educate them and provide clean data, and Blocktrades is doing it perfectly (intentionally or not).

Freedom Isn't Free.

I agree.

Only those who Seek Shall Find, and absolutely nothing excuses the utter nonsense, idiocy, and complete ignorance that CZ displayed.

I agree. If it's your job, then you are accountable and should know your shit.

I am not defending them not sure why you are bringing this btw.

You though, seem to disagree, you think that despite the voluminous and completely public and easily accessible information about everything to do with everything, people are purposefully kept in the dark.

Yes, that's why people watch the news. Because they can't go to Irak and see what's going on live. Not everyone is an expert on blockchain development, in order for everyone to understand anything, people who are technical and have the job to scan the code before running it should use layman's terms and explain the situation to people instead of using the "just trust us, you can't understand it" approach and silence.

Let me ask you this, if that is the case, by what miraculous exceptions do you think that yabbamat and others came to know anything, let alone know enough that you consider them as capable to share that information and knowledge?

You are here since 2016, not sure if this is a real question or sarcasm.

Completely, if witnesses represent the will of the community (as some may say), then it is up to them to make decisions based on the feedback of this latter. The decision-making process shall pass by a step where they explain the changes to the community.

If they represent the will of the community then the community does the explaining to the witnesses, not the other way around. How do you figure that the community demands the witnesses act a certain way yet the witness must educate the community about what the community demanded of them. Complete idiocy. The only thing that is required by witnesses is to Validate Blocks btw.

if there are no changes planned, then it is up to them in most part to provide the community with information regarding any complex issues to help the community to form an unbiased opinion.

Because? Why not, after all they aren't there to Validate Blocks, they are there to fret out issues, because why not.

I agree. If it's your job, then you are accountable and should know your shit.

I am not defending them not sure why you are bringing this btw.

If you're not defending them why are you saying that they should be educated by those who find their actions cringe-worthy?

Yes, that's why people watch the news. Because they can't go to Irak and see what's going on live. Not everyone is an expert on blockchain development, in order for everyone to understand anything, people who are technical and have the job to scan the code before running it should use layman's terms and explain the situation to people instead of using the "just trust us, you can't understand it" approach and silence.

People can chose to watch the news exactly like they can chose to seek any and all the information that they are unsure or not informed about, and no one has any responsibility to either publish or share the information, and there is absolutely no lack of such information, so to suggest that people are kept in the dark about ANYTHING to do with Steem is complete nonsense.

You are here since 2016, not sure if this is a real question or sarcasm.

That is a very valid question and it has nothing, fuck all nothing, to do with me:

If others have found the information for themselves, what keeps others from doing the same, or who, what, where, how and why are people kept in the dark as you try to baselessly claim (all nil explanation or evidence for)?

That's true.

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree that it still applies.

Nobody was talking about the "masses" here. Its not "cringy" for the wider community to be confused, and lots of people, including/especially witnesses will be glad to take the time to assist. That's not the issue here.

CZ is not part of the wider crowd. The man employees very smart people that can help him understand blockchain. He is one of the foremost participants in the blockchain industry, and it is cringy to not know your own industry.

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree that it still applies.

No worries, it's always better than believing in something just because it feels good.

Nobody was talking about the "masses" here. Its not "cringy" for the wider community to be confused, and lots of people, including/especially witnesses will be glad to take the time to assist. That's not the issue here.

Well, I was. Your replays to people should be based on what they said, no based on ideas you think you could have a good answer to them.

CZ is not part of the wider crowd. The man employees very smart people that can help him understand blockchain. He is one of the foremost participants in the blockchain industry, and it is cringy to not know your own industry.

Already answered that question, at least have the decency to check my comments above.

Keep on cheerleading,

Thank you,

this post by @blocktrades that you are commenting on does exactly that (explain the concept)

No shit sherlock.

Now the hard question: Why @blocktrades was the first to talk about it? Get it?

and witness that only communicate with the community 1 time in 4 months is BS.

and don't you dare start talking about "They are doing a lot of work in the BACKGROUND"

If @blocktrades is doing it, all witnesses can do it.

If you think @blocktrades is the first to talk about consensus mechanisms on this platform after reading a 2020 post, you are sadly mistaken.

The DPOS systems has been posted, blogged and commented about in countless instances on the Steem platform (and other message boards & fora for that matter). It's been subject to a LOT of debate.

Nearly all of the original top 20 witnesses have been pretty vocal about their views in general, which is only normal since before participants in this network should vote for anyone as a witness, it's nice to know their views.

I would personally say it's necessary to know their views before voting, but it seems that currently there are witnesses in the top20 that have NEVER posted anything...

YET YOU ARE VOTING FOR SOME OF THESE.

Let’s start ...

If you think @blocktrades is the first to talk about consensus mechanisms on this platform after reading a 2020 post, you are sadly mistaken.

I like to keep things precise, if you are going to dump on me everything said and done by every new and past witness on steem this is not going to work. Every witness shares an "equal" responsibility to do the same thing (I don't fucking care about a game review or what you think about life). My replay is tied to the witness above and the definition of transaction refusal. I don't remember discussing which food they like to eat. Got that?

Now that being a witness and farming the reward pool is not enough, let take a few seeps from that tasty SPS.

The DPOS systems has been posted, blogged and commented about in countless instances on the Steem platform (and other message boards & fora for that matter). It's been subject to a LOT of debate.

Not sure why you are also dumping this on me, I didn't say the contrary or discuss such a point. There are unlimited resources about blockchain development and medicine online, that fact doesn't make you a B developer and neurosurgeon instantly. Yea, because not everyone has the time nor the will to dig, that's why people delegate their trust to other people, so they can do the right thing and explain the void to them FOR A PRICE.

Nearly all of the original top 20 witnesses have been pretty vocal about their views in general, which is only normal since before participants in this network should vote for anyone as a witness, it's nice to know their views.

This is too vague, Their opinions about what exactly? Why are you dumping random shit on me? Precision is king. Yes, you are probably talking about all those movie and game reviews, gotchya. Are you talking about the whole picture or just the last drama? Like almost no one of them was posting monthly updates for being entrenched at the top chilling for years. Wait, I mean real updates, not some existential BS, or something like "Hey" every 6 months when they drop off the top 20.

If being vocal means to you whine and accepting the status quo for 4 years then it's, of course, your opinion. My definition of duty clearly differs from yours. It's funny to see witnesses kissing people ass for support, then when someone asks about accountability they act like if it's a POW chain.

I would personally say it's necessary to know their views before voting, but it seems that currently there are witnesses in the top20 that have NEVER posted anything...

Not necessary! Yea, I voted on X just because he is funny and looks good and trusty, and also voted on me once.

No, dear friend, this is idiocracy.

Imagine having 2 countries, where the first one is represented by highly-skilled technocrats and educated population, and the second wone by a bunch of random joe (probably movie critics writers) and the population has no way to check and make them accountable for their actions. Here what's going to happen:

The first country will thrive and become a superpower, the second will be conquered by the first country and will be transformed into a back garden, or a theatre since there are enough people there who think that emotions can melt iron.

YET YOU ARE VOTING FOR SOME OF THESE.

No shit Einstein? WTF with all the dump? since you are a historian, maybe you should go back and read one of my posts to understand the WHY.


To conclude, it's sad that some people are still playing the role of cheerleaders instead of vigils. If you are going to keep the same mindset and approach as the last 4 years, you can be sure that the next 4 will be the same and nothing will improve.

I like to keep things precise, if you are going to dump on me everything said and done by every new and past witness on steem this is not going to work. Every witness shares an "equal" responsibility to do the same thing (I don't fucking care about a game review or what you think about life). My replay is tied to the witness above and the definition of transaction refusal. I don't remember discussing which food they like to eat. Got that?

Now that being a witness and farming the reward pool is not enough, let take a few seeps from that tasty SPS.

You replied to someone by making vague accusations that they are keeping people in the dark and implying that they have a responsibility to educate others, and then you tried to claim that the concept of transaction refusal has never been discussed before, and when someone referred quite correctly to transaction refusal as consensus mechanism(s) you lost your shit, accusing them of not being precise. The ridiculous part is that so far you still consider yourself correct AND precise, but you're neither, dragging the conversation from the completely valid cringe worthy reaction to vacuous idiotic nonsense of "keeping people in slavery".

Not sure why you are also dumping this on me, I didn't say the contrary or discuss such a point. There are unlimited resources about blockchain development and medicine online, that fact doesn't make you a B developer and neurosurgeon instantly. Yea, because not everyone has the time nor the will to dig, that's why people delegate their trust to other people, so they can do the right thing and explain the void to them FOR A PRICE.

He never said that the presence of resources somewhere makes one an expert in that field, instantly, or otherwise. He contended you ridiculous idiotic nonsense that people are kept in the dark regarding how the blockchain functions. He didn't say anything about what it takes to be a developer, so while you're dumping this on him as you act as if what he said had absolutely nothing of relevance to what you said please explain exactly how are people kept in the dark if the information is freely accessible to anyone? O yeah. You didn't "discuss" such a point. Dumbfuck.

There's no point to expose anything more especially seeing that it's simply a matter of vehemently disregarding, twisting and bullshiting about what was said and why.

Keep holding their toes to the flame, or whatever you think you're doing.

Going low? will go just a bit low.

You replied to someone by making vague accusations that they are keeping people in the dark and implying that they have a responsibility to educate others

Nice, the earth also not falt, what's the point from describing what I already said?

and then you tried to claim that the concept of transaction refusal has never been discussed before

I don't see where I claimed that transaction refusal wasn't discussed before. I tied it to the witness above.

when someone referred quite correctly to transaction refusal as consensus mechanism(s) you lost your shit, accusing them of not being precise.

Do you think the COVID-19 is as dangerous to people who are 30 and people who are 90? You know the answer. But it's the same virus ... yeah, you got the idea. Read some scientific paper, maybe you will learn how unbiased facts should be presented.

He never said that the presence of resources somewhere makes one an expert in that field, instantly, or otherwise. He contended you ridiculous idiotic nonsense that people are kept in the dark regarding how the blockchain functions.

Why so hurt, facts don't care about your emotions. Get over it. He implied that people should do the digging to understand complex terminology since information is there, I am saying that people who are voted should do this job and serve the intel on a FUCKIN GOLDEN plate to the community with a huge SMILE. But yea, you live in the world of subjectivity, where everything is elastic.

explain exactly how are people kept in the dark if the information is freely accessible to anyone? O yeah. You didn't "discuss" such a point. Dumbfuck

Why the fuck should I waste my time anymore on a whiny overly emotional ass-kisser? The respect, you earn it, same as my time retard. Never saw someone defending a witness so much jeeeez, no wonder why this place is like a dumpster full of whiny people.


You are having a menstrual crisis I think, calm down, drink water, avoid soy milk, and move on.

Next time you want to speak with me again Dumbfuck², do it with respect.

Nice, the earth also not falt, what's the point from describing what I already said?

To pin you down to your deeds you idiot, that's the point. In otherwords if you don't deny when I paraphrased you then you are extending silent, uncontested acquiescence.

I don't see where I claimed that transaction refusal wasn't discussed before. I tied it to the witness above.

Wow. Idiot said, and I quote:

No shit sherlock.

Now the hard question: Why @blocktrades was the first to talk about it? Get it?

Now..

Do you think the COVID-19 is as dangerous to people who are 30 and people who are 90? You know the answer. But it's the same virus ... yeah, you got the idea. Read some scientific paper, maybe you will learn how unbiased facts should be presented.

Because idiots think that facts have bias. Dumb and dumb. Tell me again what any of that rambling nonsense has to do with you losing your shit when you were confronted regarding your implicit idiotic nonsense that transaction refusal hadn't been discussed, trying to claim then that the one who confronted you wasn't being precise. Lol.

Why so hurt, facts don't care about your emotions. Get over it. He implied that people should do the digging to understand complex terminology since information is there, I am saying that people who are voted should do this job and serve the intel on the FUCKIN GOLDEN plate to the community. But yea, you live in the world of subjectivity, where everything is elastic.

Facts lol. Those 'unbiased' facts. Too bad you have one, idiotic, completely imbecilic opinion that people should be entitled to be educated and that they have no such responsibility for themselves, and that has no factual quality what so ever, it's entirely penchant on your idiotic opinion.

Why the fuck should I waste my time anymore on a whiny overly emotional ass-kisser?

Or why should you explain how people are kept in the dark regarding these things. O yeah, because you don't have jack shit to show for it. Keep on 'keeping their feet to the fire', you're not a moron.

It's amazing to see how much patience and goodwill can be found in the Steem community, giving attention and time to people that would not particularly deserve it.

Here's an upvote :) #SteemOn

The reality is most people are not interested in understanding the technology. I have said time and time again, when there is a crypto that can hide all the tech stuff, people will flock to it in droves.

Cg

I would call it "feature" as long as the developers of that blockchain put in place the tools to do it.
For instance, this "feature" has been more designed and elaborated in EOS.
So, from my side I don't see it's wrong to call it in that way.

It's absolutely not a feature, IMO. It's an aspect of the technology. Sure, you can put in place tools to manage that aspect of the technology. But that doesn't make it a feature, it's still just an aspect of the technology, not something that was designed by choice, which was what CZ was implying. Now you could argue that tools to manage it are a feature, but that's a different point.

Well said!

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

Now you could argue that tools to manage it are a feature.

Exactly, this is my point.

it's still just an aspect of the technology, not something that was designed by choice

I agree that this is an aspect of the technology. But it is also true that when you design and write the code, if you put code to freeze accounts you are adding this as a plus, as something specific for that blockchain, you could summarize it as a feature.

I understand that freezing accounts could happen in all blockchains, not specific ones. But you could label those blockchains in that way when the majority of miners/producers/witnesses decide to apply a specific code to do it.

btw, I liked your article. Good to see the history behind the decision of DPoS.