I've no interest in throwing out my Bible. I just refuse to give it a position it never claims to have itself, nor was it ever intended to have! Please read very carefully to understand, do not start judging before getting the point I am sharing here.
Scripture is not the Word of God.
It bears witness to the Word of God.
God Himself addressed this when He visited the planet [john 5:39-40.]
From the same book that says "The Word became a HUMAN BEING and lived among us [John 1:14.] John didn't meant "the Bible became a human."
In the first 1600 years of Christianity, very few had the Jewish texts differed quite heavily to the original Hebrew, others had the writings of Paul in Greek text and even then the translations we had then vs what we have today are quite substantially different. So, God isn't the scriptures because He doesn't change; scriptures changed and people keep bringing out for sale so many different translations of the bible or the scriptures.
Not every page is spoken by God... Far from it!
But every page, part of a meta-narrative that finds its completion in Jesus, leads us TO the Word of God.
So don't think I'm trying to trash the Bible.
I'm trying to trash people's idolic thinking of the Bible.
God help us approach your gift of the Scriptures correctly, so that they might lead us to find Jesus and find Him FAR beyond any murky shadows we find in the scriptures.
Thank you for receiving these words today, if you would like to keep receiving these amazing thoughts from God's heart, Follow me, Comment and Upvote. If you found this post helpful, you can Resteem it for your family, friends and your audience. We love and appreciate you in Christ.
Love,
Pastor Lea
Version francaise...
Je n'ai aucun intérêt à jeter ma Bible. Je refuse simplement de lui donner une position qu'il ne prétend jamais avoir elle-même, ni jamais eu l'intention d'avoir! Avant de juger cette enseignement, rassure toi que tu comprend le sense dans lequel je t'enmene.
L'Écriture n'est pas la Parole de Dieu.
Cela témoigne de la Parole de Dieu. *
Toutes les pages ne sont pas parlées par Dieu ... Loin de ça!
Mais chaque page, partie d'un méta-récit qui trouve son achèvement à Jésus, nous conduit à la Parole de Dieu.
Donc ne pense pas que j'essaie de me débarrasser de la Bible.
J'essaie de détruire la pensée idéologique des gens sur la Bible.
Dieu nous aide à aborder correctement votre don des Écritures. Qu'ils nous conduisent à trouver Jésus et à le trouver au-delà de toutes les ombres mignonnes que nous trouvons dans les Écritures.
Yes, absolutely!
Yeshua is not Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy literally walking around. As you said, these all testify of Him. (John 5:39)
He walked perfectly in the ways of His Father according to the Holy scriptures! Yet, these books also contain evil. They contain the rebellion of Israel and the worshiping of images and hardened hearts, and the wicked ways of the nations - all of these which Yeshua has nothing to do with, except to say "Repent, the Reign of God is at hand!" and "Take up my yoke and find rest for your souls!"
Yet...
The WORD of God (Logos) is the Eternal Torah, the Way of Life, of which the Law given to Moses (also from God) is but a fraction. The Torah of Moses is like the talent in the parable. Do we deposit it deeply in our hearts, walking it out, then return it as it is with no increase saying "Master, I've done all these since my youth!" He would say "If you want to enter into life, multiply what you've been given, 30 or 60 or 100 fold!"
The WORD of God (Logos) is the seed, which is either trampled upon by men, or plucked away the adversary, or having no root wilted by the sun, or smothered by thorns, or bearing much FRUIT. The Fruit of the Spirit comes from above, the eternal Torah, the WORD of God. And by our fruit we shall be known.
The WORD of God (Logos) is Salvation, who became flesh to show the way of life, to reprove the hypocrites, to heal the blind, to open the ears of the deaf, open the mouths of the mute. To cast out demons and to raise the dead, to command the wind and the waves, to feed the multitudes. It is true that man shall not live on bread alone, but on every WORD proceeding from the mouth of God.
The Torah of Moses (spoken by the mouth of God) is the testimony for us to learn from and study to help us understand the kindness and the power and glory of our Father in Heaven and to live according to His will. He is seeking (by means of His Son) the lost sheep of Israel, those who hear His WORD with fear and trembling saying "Abba Father, we have sinned and done wrong, acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your Torah and Your Salvation! We have not listened to your prophet Moses, nor the Prophets of Israel, nor the Psamists, nor your apostles! We have turned our ears away, choosing rather to seek our own pleasure and attend to the cares of this world. Father forgive us, we do not know what we do. We do not understand the width or depth or breadth or your glory, your kindness, your mercy. Show us the path for us to go! Show us the ancient paths! Show us what is good in your eyes, that we may act according to Your will. May we turn aside the vanity and defilement of this world and become clean that we may enter into Your presence...."
With a pure and sincere heart, purified by the WORD of God, we can experience the LOVE that the Father has for us - because the WORD (Logos) is the seed which is planted within us that grows and brings about eternal life! Hallelujah! Praise the Most High God!
@ironshield
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nice comment, a lot to say! God is His Word and His Word is named Jesus! Amennn thank you @ironshield
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"Not every page is spoken by God... Far from it!"
What pages do you believe aren't spoken by God?
The whole Bible is God's Word, just not all He's ever said.
"Word" can mean what people say, like in the expression "my word is my bond." It doesn't just mean one word.
It doesn't mean that's all someone has said, either.
"God's Word" means God's written Word to us.
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Heb 1:1-2 God speak to us through His Son. And John 1:14 tells us that Jesus is the Word that became flesh. You will need to choose among the written on anything external or the written on your heart according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:4-6... read https://steemit.com/christian-trail/@pastorlea/the-bible-is-not-the-physical-perfect-representative-of-god-jesus-is
you will understand better. You are blessed!
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Do you believe that Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit useful for correcting, rebuking and teaching in righteousness? (2 Timothy 3:16).
And if so... then why would the Holy Spirit give something to us that is flawed so that we can find something perfect from the imperfect?
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Exactly! The "fact" that the Bible is a flawed book, is the "truth"that Islam teaches. It is not the truth that Christianity teaches.
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2 Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
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Furthermore, the Holy Spirit is part of the Triune God meaning that... God himself who is perfect, gave us something imperfect, so that we could come closer to somebody who is perfect... your logic is flawed.
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If the Scriptures which are inspired by the Holy Spirit are flawed, that means that God gave us something imperfect. But then does that mean that God can't be trusted to give us correct information and lead us down the straight and narrow path? If that is so... what does that say about the character of God?
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"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelations 22:18-19
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Scriptures (are Not God but ) were inspired by [The Holy Spirit (God)] to men. the scriptures we have today, we couldn't have them if the Spirit didn't inspire those who could write to leave us something to have access to concerning the prophecies and the stories of men before us their faith etc...
But, the fathers before didn't have books like we do today but pieces of writings INSPIRED and also people in time past had their own believes and knowledge... so you will think whatever version of the bible you use is the word of God? NO
Many translations, many people put whatever they think is the truth today. That's why Jesus said, I am the light of the world... NOT the Bible or the scriptures but JESUS. He is the way, He is the truth. So whenever you want to encounter the Truth, it's not by trusting whatever you read or have as a document but you need to pray and have a fellowship with the Spirit to reveal to you the Word as you behold scriptures. Jesus said the Spirit will come [John 14:16-17] and [Chap 15] to reveal to remind us what He said unto them. Trust the Spirit, not the scriptures. From the Scriptures You will see Jesus by the Spirit. I get what you are saying but Jesus is God, not the scriptures. Jesus is the Way, not the scriptures. Jesus is everything not the Scriptures. Do not trust anything else than God himself as your everything!
I love you so much dear @kyalspeaks
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2 Timothy 3:16 if you look at the Greek "is given by inspiration of God" that whole phrase is the Greek word theópneustos which literally means "a presumed derivative of" or "divinely breathed" LITERALLY meaning that the scriptures are divinely breathed by God.
I ask you again... why would God give us something imperfect in the first place when God himself is perfect. Can a being that is perfect literally SPEAK imperfection?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that God wrote the Bible. It was written by man. But God gave them the words to use. Not of their own volition.
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I get you dear, we are having a conversation, I understand you. No worries @kyalspeaks... It's all in love and joy, what's exciting about this is it wasn't just people up in Greece using this language, the Roman roads have hit the modern world! Now it's not that Rome created the routes between Greece and Israel, those already existed but they popped the whole thing open by improving the roads, but not only that, building Roman cities in Israel that required proper education, art (remember to Israeli's graven images were illegal but Romans and Greeks loved statues), religion, etc.
So these Roman cities ended up having resident philosophical voices from various factions in Greece come and take up shop. They were there preaching day and night their philosophical views in the town center.
Now who did all labour in these cities? Romans? Hahaha no.
Mostly slaves and paid Jewish labourers... That's right the Jews daily would be wandering these Roman cities (filled with disgusting abominations like naked statues of Zeus and Pan (on of Pan's statues is literally him having sex with a goat.. can you imagine how man a Jew would be looking at that every day!)
Sorry... Jews... Wandering... Roman cities.
But as they wandered around these cities, back and forth to their homes in neighbouring Jewish cities they would no doubt hear these philosophical principles. We know this because Jewish writings of the times (including our Bible) quote Greek poems and philosophical thoughts.
So most people would have a concept of logos, albeit loosely.
Not only that but a good chunk of educated men (sorry women, no education for you!) would have heard these teachings and possibly even incorporated some of their concepts. (Although there is no evidence of this that I know if beyond the Bible)
Either way when John rocks up and says Jesus is the LOGOS of God. What he was saying is not... Jesus is a form of the Bible.
When he says that Jesus is the logos of God he's saying Jesus is the physical expression of God!
He's the proof for the unseen!
(Sounds a lot like Hebrews doesn't it?)
You see when Jesus did everything He did, when He said everything He said, He was physically manifesting the invisible realm. Or the spiritual realm.
I could go on. But let's stop for now.
All that to say.
The "Logos" or the "Word of God" are not the Bible.
It's Jesus.
The Bible does not give perfect physical representation to our "invisible" God... Jesus does!
So join with me in saying... "The Bible is NOT the Word of God!"
Great now we can start enjoying the Bible for what it IS.
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But the Bible Is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word. That does not mean they are the same thing. No one that I know of ever claims that, and I know of no one who worships the Bible. The book itself is just paper and ink. When we read the Bible, God speaks to us through the Word. God's ways are not our ways. We are not meant to fully understand these things "as we see through a glass darkly." Jesus was human and also God. God gives us all these dichotomies throughout the Bible. We are to have a childlike faith that what he says is true.
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If somebody sends you a letter, do you assume that letter is that person? Or do you just assume that it is from that person...
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Also... Based off of your own argument you are using scriptures to justify that scriptures cannot be trusted... Meaning that your own argument can't be trusted by your logic.
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Scriptures are trusted because the Spirit reveals Christ through them... But they're not God. I hope you get it, it's as simple as good morning!
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excellent message, thank you. You are our spiritual leader on this STEEMIT COMMUNITY
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It's an honor to be used by God to unveil to the nation His heart and mind in Christ Jesus by His sweet Holy Spirit! You are blessed with all blessings...
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Hm. This is quite a different light for the Bible. I never really have that thought that Jesus is the Bible, but I know the Bible speaks of Jesus, and what happened. It's more like a love letter from God to us, telling about His relationship and to us and like most family, drama happens (especially in the old testaments).
Thus the "Word of God" narrative for me probably is very different from you have explained in many's thought.
It has "power" because it shows God's power, it has "life" because the Holy Spirit shows the life from the scriptures and renew us...
And the scriptures speaks about Jesus, all over the place. Haha.
Thank you for sharing this different angle to us, pastor lea.
upvoted and resteemed
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I learned that Jesus is the Word Incarnate and that the Bible is the written Word. It's not about believing the the Bible is God. Both can be true in the same way that Jesus was human and also God. It is not something that our human minds can properly understand. We are not meant to. We are to have childlike faith. It's also like free will and predestination. Both are true. Jesus also believed the scriptures to be the Word of God, so I don't have a problem believing it too. 😊
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You have a point on there too @dmcamera
Sometimes we do not need to break it down and dissect it so deeply but let the Holy Spirit guide us through to all understanding.
1 Cor 2:10
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The important thing to remember is, it's the Holy Spirits commission to lead you in obedience to God's law.
“And I shall give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I shall give you a heart of flesh, and put My Spirit within you. And I shall cause you to walk in My laws and guard My right-rulings and shall do them.
Yehezqĕl (Ezekiel) 36:26-27 TS2009
God's law for us is found in Genesis-Deuteronomy. Those 5 books together in Hebrew are known as the Torah. If the spirit is telling you to do something to break one of the laws found in those 5 books then it's NOT the holy spirit guiding you.
I would encourage you, if you want to walk as Jesus walked and live as he lived, then you need to study the Torah as he studied the Torah. Remember the whole time he was here he didn't have the New Testament, his preaching and teaching was done solely from the Old Testament.
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But he came to fulfill the law in the Old Testament! If we don't believe that, then we don't have Christianity! We were given a new covenant. "The New is in the Old concealed, The Old is in the New revealed - a basic Bible truth from St. Augustine to remember.
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I was just reading this verse today and I thought it was very applicable.
You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the Lord your God is giving you for all time.”
Deuteronomy 4:40 NKJV
What many do not see, or do not realize is there are only 2 types of people in God's eyes, there are those who are in covenant him, who are Israel, who are his set apart people, and then there are those who are not his, who are not Israel, who are not in covenant with him.
Guarding and keeping his commands is a blessing, as he said. I love that. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. This verse reaffirms that those who seek to obey his Torah will be blessed.
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Sorry, I have been very busy with my business today. You asked me how I interpreted the word fulfill. Jesus came to accomplish the purpose of the law. He said he did not come to abolish the law, but to accomplish its purpose.
We are unable to keep the law. If you break one command in the law, you are breaking them all. There is no temple where we worship, we are not sacrificing animals and men, for example, do get their hair cut! So the law is broken right there before we even look at the other parts of it.
Mathew 5:18 is not saying that the law will not be done away with till the earth is done away with, It is saying that the law will not be abolished until its purpose is achieved. Jesus came to accomplish that. He said so Himself in Luke 22:202 "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying,“This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." (NIV) Animal sacrifices as required by the law were no longer necessary because Jesus' blood took the place of the blood of animals.
The New Covenant in the Old Testament was given to Israel, but in the New Testament (Covenant), Gentiles are now covered by the blood of Jesus" : 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Gentiles who are Christians are now part of the Covenant because of Jesus' shed blood. Under the New Covenant we are given the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ by Faith and to accept salvation as a free gift through Grace. Jesus' sacrificial death abolished the need for the death of animals and the need for us to try to follow every detail of the law.
Hebrews 7:21-22 says it better than I can: 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”[b]
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
Also Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
So, the New Testament is pretty clear about where the law now stands! It has its place, but we can't keep it. Our salvation is through faith in Christ alone.
Blessings!
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Gentiles always had a place, even in the Old Covenant. Remember Rahab and Ruth as prime examples, but the scriptures are clear
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Exodus 12:49 KJV
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 24:22 KJV
The scriptures make it clear, if you want to be in covenant with God you must accept his law and strive to obey it.
I agree that yes Jesus blood paid the penalty of sin but that does not mean we have a free pass to live as we please. God gave his law for a reason, to show us how to live, and to live a blessed life. I agree, no one can keep the law perfectly, only Jesus has been able to do that but again that does not mean we shouldn't strive to keep it as best as we can. I also agree there is no temple or Levitical priesthood so it's impossible to make any sacrifices BUT if we had both, then sacrifices and offerings would be required. There were more than just sacrifices for sin.
Now to address some of your specific statements. Me get their hair cut. There is no command that tells men not to cut their hair. That is a very common misinterpretation. The verse you reference instructs us not to burn or mutilate our hair or to pull it out by the roots.
In your interpretation of Matthew 5:18 your saying he said the law would not be done away with til it's purpose was fulfilled. I see the purpose of the law being, as I previously stated, to show us how to live. That would still apply today. So what do you see the purpose of the law being since you do not think it is for today?
Is everything permissible now because of Jesus blood? Are we allowed to live as we please doing whatever we want? I sure hope you say no to that, for what kind of Christian would you be if you think it's ok to murder, or steal, or commit adultery.
So then let me ask you, how do you go about picking and choosing which laws you follow? There is no list anywhere in the new testament that says these laws here no longer apply to you. So how do you say murder and stealing are wrong but say eating pork and not observing the Sabbath are ok, just to name a big few.
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Before you go saying Acts 10 makes unclean animals clean, look at what Peter said the vision meant. It was about men, not food.
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 10:28 KJV
He never once says it's about food. He had the vision 3 times and right after that 3 men show up looking for him.
Also you did a great job at quoting the writings of Paul but you misinterpret what he is saying. First of all I want to point out that Paul is a man like you and me, and like you and me he does not have the authority to change that which God has established. Secondly I would also like to point out there are several laws Paul mentions in his writings.
How do you know then he is talking about the Torah?
Thirdly I would like to quote Peter again for you when he said this of Paul's writings.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
I am by no means discrediting Paul at all, I'm just saying he is grossly misunderstood as Peter predicted.
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@dmcamera did you have a chance to read over my comments?
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I did, thanks!
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I'm curious on your thoughts about what the Bible says in those passages.
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You are one of the only other people that I have heard that uses The Scriptures (2009) for study. I commend you! That's awesome!
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Thank you sir. I use it as well as the KJV and NKJV. I like the scriptures because I think it gives us the best understanding of what the original texts said in their native language, plus it uses the actual names
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Exactly! I actually have a whole post on Scripture Translation which goes pretty into detail into all of that (although there is so much more that could be said as well).
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Jesus is the word of God, He is not the bible. That's the point here sweetie, we need to make the difference between both and go beyond the scriptures to encounter the true Jesus by the Spirit through the physical scriptures. The Word of God is God according to John 1v1-3 but the bible or the scriptures are not God!
Much love and appreciation dear @littlenewthings
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I read this as you saying the Bible is a flawed guide book but it can lead us to the true word of God. Did I over simplify what you are saying?
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you got it... The bible isn't God, neither are the scriptures. The bible says that The Word of God IS God, not the scriptures. So the scriptures are the book to go and allow the Spirit of Truth to reveal The Truth in you, to you... You are blessed
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The Bible is not a flawed book. If you read the entire book from cover to cover more than a few times you will see that it is very clear within the context whether God is actually speaking the words a writer has written. And what about 1 Thessalonians 2:13? It's pretty clear that this means the scriptures and not Jesus!
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The scripture never became flesh, The Word became flesh... There's a difference between the scriptures and The word of God. Jesus is the Word of God and God is His word. Scriptures refers to whatever was experienced before Christ, the Word come. You will notice a difference in the bible of 3 distinct words: Scriptures, Word of God, Gospel - Hope you understand! thank you...
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You are correct, the scripture never became flesh. The Word is used in three different ways in the Bible - Meaning 1.Jesus, 2. What God actually verbally spoke, and 3. what is Written. That's what I understand from my many readings of the Bible. Respectfully, Diane
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Great, that's exactly my point @Diane. Where are you from ?
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Originally? Scotland. Now - Florida.
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Oh great, you will like to participate to our through phone services some times!
I will give you the numbers...
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Amen!
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