Good News! Downvoting is Already Increasing!

in busy •  6 years ago 

With the new Downvote Pool things are bound to get interesting after HF21.

In fact, I see several large accounts are already pre-emptively getting mad about the idea they might get downvoted for self voting.

I see that as a good thing, it means they are considering their strategy after the HF.

This is how we should view it and train it:

A post is open for reactions for 7 days.

Everyone in the community has the right and ability, if not the desire to check out your post and react with their SteemPower. They can upvote it because they think it holds value or downvote it if they think it is harmful for some reason. They can also just ignore it or not vote at all.

No one is removing anything, they are just expressing their opinion.

At the end of the seven days any rewards you have earned become yours and are transferred to your wallet where no one can touch it.

Most active Steemians will acknowledge there are lot of posts that do not create value, some are not rewarded and some are. If we want the community to curate, we have to consider changing how we react.

In my opinion this box should have been removed

image.png

The truth is that people can downvote for any reason including:

  • Opinions
  • Personal Battles
  • Trolling

I could keep making the list, the thing is people can downvote and they will. Some will do it to hurt their perceived enemies, make a point, hurt Steem, express their unhappiness, or sometimes for disagreement with rewards.

How we talk about and present downvoting matters, many keep saying it is bad for the platform. I think the downvote situation is a cultural reaction and we can change it with a consistent message.

Don't be rude when you downvote and remain calm when you are downvoted.

If you are a good user who produces good content and you get downvoted repeatedly for something personal talk to a witness, a stakeholder or someone about offsetting the downvotes.

Personally, I think there is going to be a huge backlash and a lot of downvote wars right after the Hardfork, how you react can make a difference.

Also, there will likely be huge amounts of DRAMA. dRAMA is ready and waiting.

drama_tiny.png

Remember though, you can create a drama over a downvote you do not have to.

*for all of you who are going to tell me how dumb it is to allow downvotes. I didn't make the hardfork I am just getting prepared.

Also it would be really cool for some people to get some benchmark data on daily downvotes and publish to the community whether that increases or decreases after the hardfork.

@whatsup

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And here I thought the free downvotes were being added in to combat abuse like misuse of the rewards pool, fraud and plagiarism, trolling, spam; since abuse was running rampant and not much was being done about it.

You think it's a good idea to use downvotes for opinions, personal battles and trolling? So, rather than attempting to solve toxicity, you'll promote it? Rather than attempting to solve the issues with free downvotes, you think it's a good idea to create new problems with the free downvotes?

I think that's a terrible idea. I'd prefer to see people acting professionally and taking these votes seriously. I suppose that sounds like a stupid idea and I'm acting irrational.

I had to sit and watch "investors" act like children on the trending page for months, with their "flag war".

Much of this hardfork exists to encourage responsible behavior. It's designed to remove rewards from abusers and put them in the hands of users.

If the abusers are just going to pout and continue to fuck with the users, there's no point in hardforking the place. If drama, and being all giddy about drama, is what people want here, instead of actual curation, there's no point in hardforking the place.

I'm certain that 'I' in EIP stands for improvement. They can hardfork the blockchain but they can't hardfork your brains. If people really want to see improvements, they'll have to make improvements. It's not up to the damn code. That's just an excuse people use to act irresponsibly. Playing the blame game because they're too ashamed to admit they control themselves.

Anyway. Have a nice day.

I am not promoting it, I am saying it will happen and that is a huge difference.

Just offering my... what appears to be, two cents, so far.

You did say:

In my opinion this box should have been removed...

Whereas I think those are solid guidelines. People can use words if they want to troll or have personal battles and opinions.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

Ah, okay... I misunderstood.

It's a good point. My issue with the box is it encouraging people to say things like..

I was downvoted for the wrong reasons. And as we both experienced lately what are we going to say about the idiots who downvote everyone to express their sad lives?

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

I was downvoted for the wrong reasons.

There are bad reasons to downvote. Just like there are bad reasons to post or complain or whatever. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean it's right, or that you lose the right to complain.

Honestly downvote harassment is 100x worse than people complaining about it.

Steem is trying to do stakeholder governance, but having stake doesn't give you the right to be an ass, or undermine the company. Imagine if shareholders used their stake in a corporation to waste executive time, troll or otherwise undermine the company. Or as more commonly happens here try to pocket the company's budget. It would be unacceptable and potentially criminal.

With guidelines in place, it's much easier to pinpoint irresponsible behavior.

Even the plagiarists and art frauds I've caught and downvoted in the past would insist they've done nothing wrong, even when I could offer evidence. Much like when a shop owner catches a shoplifter, the thief always denies the existence of the KitKat bar in their front left pocket, even when there's video evidence.

It's easier to prove an idiot is acting idiotic, when there are guidelines.

I'm probably crazy for hoping folks could just act professionally. This place is viewed as a place of business by many who would prefer the entire operation to be successful. Sure, we can keep saying, "It's the wild west," and be stuck in an endless loop of history but I'd prefer to advance now into the industrial age and put all of this petty behavior in the past. Again, crazy.

Will you please stop making so much sense! How dare you come here with such rational thought and trying to make the place better with feedback. Honestly...[sarcasm in comment]

It was an accident!

I've always been an advocate for removing the box which discourages downvotes. Or perhaps they could add a box that discourages upvotes.

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a box that discourages upvotes

That's my account.

😂🧡

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@whatsup,
This idea might kill STEEMIT. Just note this with the date and time! Look at other social medias like FB and etc. They moderate things, they work on complaints instead of giving weapons to every guy to kill each other without cost. What we are trying here is this and this is truly bring chaos upon us!
I see there are some bully whales abuse the current flag as well!
So, what will happen when they got more AMMO?
Who will support small minnows?
Who will downvote those whales?
NADA, no one will look after those small ones and they will vanish in to thin air and whales will make more profits due to low SP and the daily reward distribution!
I hope people will come after me, just after I said I against this sh!t. Sorry we should moderate things, but we should not give permissions to every one to use a gun to kill people as they wish without a cost!
Definitely I will call
!dramatoken
when people start the drama! Sorry I am not upvoting this post as regularly! Coz I hate the idea of downvoting pool!
$trdo

Cheers~

Congratulations @theguruasia, You are successfuly trended the post that shared by @whatsup!
@whatsup got 6 TRDO & @theguruasia got 4 TRDO!

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I was not for this HF, I figure once you lose the argument you should try to prepare people.

@whatsup,
Seems I made a mistake then! Where I missed that part :( Sorry @whatsup!

Cheers~

I have just had a spate of downvotes - from three particular accounts (which are actually one account) - in response to a one of my comments on a post from a witness in which said witness commented on the activity of a former witness. For obvious reasons, no name, no pack drill. My comment was factual and not personal and to the effect that I didn't appreciate being trapped into an email harvesting exercise under false pretenses. The upshot: I've been trolled and downvoted - and since that post, those accounts have been ramped up so their downvotes have power. On one of my posts, those three votes cancelled out the three votes I had received.

This is all a long way to saying that IMO a downvote option is not going to stop this behaviour. It may "liberate" noobs in that they can express a view without writing that view, but that's not helpful either. Again IMO a different view is neither good nor bad, but should be justified. Isn't that what engagement is about? And being adult and agreeing to differ is what we ought to be doing.

And for the third time, IMO, a downvoting button is not going to stop certain behaviour - like that of trolls and bullies.

Finally, these accounts have commented on some of my posts and comments when they have downvoted and I have elected not to rise to the bait.

In fact, I see several large accounts are already pre-emptively getting mad about the idea they might get downvoted for self voting.

Which is more than a bit odd in that the big accounts, because of their huge advantage in terms of Steem Power, have built-in defense mechanisms.

If a bunch of small accounts are downvoting you, they might have valid reasons why even if you’re mad.

my strategy is to check out peoples profile, account and post beforehand. if i see people donsistantly upvoting their own post with their own or alt accounts to a degree i consider unwarranted, i just dont vote them. if i see them doing it to farm votes by shitposting on alt accounts several times a day, they will get flagged. most people don't look at this. maybe they should.

I honestly have no idea what this will bring us... but I do feel cautiously optimistic that there could be a change for the better.

Mostly, I'm just going to sit back and pop some popcorn and watch the spectacle unfold. Without a doubt, there will be LOTS of people who end up being "upset" (if nothing else, because they tend to "get upset" more or less as a job!) and we'll probably see a fair share of rage quitting....

Things are how they are. In an ideal world my opinion is that you would be correct. However, I will always express my opinion against liberalizing downvotes. Human beings are, for the most part, emotional beings. Even if a downvote is meant positively, the reaction will be negative.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

I looked at daily downvotes last week as I had an idea to post about the numbers, but I saw they were falling so I didn't bother.

Might have another go after the fork, and probably look to remove the 'cleaners' and some of the idiots (ahem coininstant) doing it for no solid reason whilst burning their VP into single digits.

Don't be rude when you downvote and remain calm when you are downvoted.

That would be grand :)

Wouldn't it. Wouldn't it be great if people didn't make a post everytime someone downvoted them? That would be neat.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

It would be nice if posts/comments didn't appear, especially when the person has given 1000's of unwarranted DVs themselves. (Check out the replies in the top featured post)

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

I thought the downvote will not affect the earnings after HF21? 🤔 (clearly I never read any official announcement. 😅)

Not only will they still have an impact you will have 2.5 free downvotes. :) they will not impact your voting power!

Oh my, that's not helpful at all I think. I thought the free downvote meant free without impact to the rewards. Lol. We can all have a downvoting spree if that happens. Lol.

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Yes, I'm expecting it! DRAMA tokens should do very well.

Hmmm... speaking of DRAMA, if I see a dramatic comment can I still tag dRama on it to get some DRAMA? 😄

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tag @whatsup instead... I'm more likely to see it.

!dramatoken

Here is one to get you started.

Oh cool. Thanks! More DRAMA. Haha. I think I have 3 now. 😅

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You have DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

I still don't know what to think about it, I will have to see the results to make a final decision.

As per i am seeing the flag wars is on new high the posts doesn't seem to be opening at all of some users

I'm never going to use it. Heard far too many stories about friends being down voted for no reason at all. It is just a tool for hate.

many keep saying it is bad for the platform. I think the downvote situation is a cultural reaction and we can change it with a consistent message.

upvoting is an action in a free market.

down voting doesn't exist in a free market.

Reward pool distribution belongs to no one until the 7 days is up. It is no ones property. Free markets do not allow purchase without property.

...it is not a cultural problem, it is a fundamental flaw in steem that will never be addressed (until inflation has stopped).

It is why steem will never suceed.
You can fight/try to engineer human behavior, as much as you like, it won't change it.
Steem is trying to do just this.

It will fail.
The market knows this also. (22 cents!!!)

With out it we will also fail, I could also point at the price of proof that too many jackasses are scamming money out and selling. (The market knows this) :)

Good to see you.

I agree with you- the way it is designed is the problem.

Price is price, and is known.

Motivations are unknown.

A healthy market requires selling and buying.

The dynamic and structure of steem does not promote healthy, organic markets. It cannot.

People are 'voting' with property that doesn't belong to them. If it belonged to them it could not be redistributed by others without permission.

I've talked about this until I'm blue in the face.

I offer no soutions..... just as offer no solutions to making the color blue, turn red.
Some things have no solutions.

Solutions occur when the fundamentals are correct, and then worked upon.
When the fundamental principles do not adhere to basics, what can you do?
Start again.

Nice to see you to, Ursula.
(you are one of the exceptions I refer to, in my post)

Generally throughout the history of mankind currency and it's regulations are created in response to the needs or demands of a community.. Steem and many blockchains, even our tribes have this novel idea that they can build a community around a currency.. It's just not something that has ever been successful as far as I know..

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  ·  6 years ago Reveal Comment

(feudalism, socialism)

tyvm


You've got DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

If you are a good user who produces good content and you get downvoted repeatedly for something personal talk to a witness, a stakeholder or someone about offsetting the downvotes

This was amusing... Like steem has an HR department 😂 Dial 7 to speak with a witness, or somebody, anybody about Opening a file to review your appeal to the offsetting flag division..

Don't be Rude and stay calm also hilarious..

Getting prepared?
Is duct tape involved? 😜

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I've helped lots of people offset downvotes. Typically I'll only help someome who gets downvoted above >3% of their post value as I see smaller downvotes as meaningless.
I make a judgement and if it is undeserved why not counter?
If the downvoter is reasonable they will see that their opinion is unpopular.
The decentralized nature of steem means everyone is potential HR.

Posted using Partiko Android

That's admirable and demonstrates the power of our social mechanisms here.. Yes everyone is potential HR is my point, that's a wide net to cast for someone thrust into the crossfire of a flag war..

I've been the innocent target as a brand new account with less than 30sp, I was sworn to be destroyed because one whale resteemed my post about feeding my school kids with aquaponics..

Nobody came to my aid and in fact many told me to stop whining or leave..

So I'll believe it when I see it.. Much if not all of my attitude stems from the utter disenfranchised and helpless experience I went through and got myself out of with not even moral support from the "community" my whale was too big to upset and had also sworn to decimate any offsetters..

I plead for a committee of elected users with some delegated Steem power from Steemit, Inc., which could decide (in case someone complains) if flags are justified or not, and if "yes" just counter them with upvotes.
In addition, accounts who repeatedly misuse flags in an abusive way (instead using them against spam, plagiarism etc.) could be flagged, as well, after a decision of that committee.

It seems there is certainly some need for an oversight committee...

It's high time stinc utilised it's SP in some form or fashion..

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  ·  6 years ago (edited)

I've been helped on several occasions. and I help others as well.

Also it would be really cool for some people to get some benchmark data on daily downvotes and publish to the community whether that increases or decreases after the hardfork. 👌✅👍

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  ·  6 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

Disagreement on rewards is not bullying.

No need to be such a SJW who can't handle people disagreeing.

I don't mind disagreement at all. You are disagreeing right now - by leaving a comment.

If your post has a 5$ price tag because a whale or many people like it. So be it. Not my business to deny that. If that price tag happened because you are abusing the rewards pool. Now, that's my business. That should be downvoted.

Having fluffy definitions is a problem because it allows to bend the meaning into everything. It should be obvious what kind of behaviour is encouraged and what is not.

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  ·  6 years ago (edited)

I was hoping to have provoked a very different kind of reaction, but this is fine too.

Edit: even though I disagree with the part of "it should be obvious" as I typically see the "it should be obvious" as a statement saying "I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong".

What were you expecting?

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I am not encouraging I am stating it is going to happen.

Yeah, I guess I worded it poorly, I'm not a great writer.

The Hardfork is coming, people do DV for opinions... :)

And whether you like it or not there are others who can help

And also... I agree we are in "Self Correcting" mode.

It's my fault. I lack autism for this.

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be careful I watching a SJW get all upset about a similar autism joke.

I've never thought Steem will go mainstream, but I did think we would hold a niche of crypto people talking about things and playing games, while speculating on Crypto. :)

xmas.gif

!BEER

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To view or trade BEER go to steem-engine.com.

Hey @enforcer48, here is your BEER token. Enjoy it!

It might not be a joke :/

#NewSteem

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  ·  6 years ago (edited)

funny, but not funny. please dont mock autism. its like mocking a handicapped person or a nerd. i am discouraging discrimination.