My PALNET Updates:

whatsup (75) in busy • 6 years ago

I just received my first payout from palnet! Palnet also uses a 7 day open post format and an hour or so ago I earned my first PALs

In my wallet, I can tell the difference because the tokens I earn come from "tokens" and those that I bought came from "market".

I'm a bit disappointed that I think my account will not at this point be large enough to earn curation rewards. I'm not sad for my own experience it just means that if my account is 87th on the richlist, which it was yesterday... Not many are going to have any chance at curation rewards.

After a week of PALNET, I am convinced that this is a great community token.

Strengths from my point of view:

The team
Inclusive Claimdrop
Lack of huge whales
Active development team.
Allowing flexibility of frontends.

Weaknesses from my point of view.

The Curve seems pretty strong and could once again create a system of a handful of people running the show. (this might be a strength from their point of view)
Still no fund to reward contributions for onboarding etc. (they have their own team for this, and really don't require outside assistance.
The site is slow.

I am still very excited about Palnet and it is still very young only a week old, so just consider this a progress report not complaints.

It's a great community token, but I am still imagining a spork

https://busy.org/@whatsup/what-if-spork-steem-without-steemit-inc

Now that you have seen a sporklet in action, revisit the spork idea, it is easier to picture now.

busy steem palnet spork imagine

6 years ago by whatsup (75)

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fullcoverbetting (69) · 6 years ago

Mmh, so I guess I can kiss the curation rewards goodbye for some time!
Probably this has to do with the fact that there are no decimals. So for the moment only the mods could get curation rewards with their stake of 30K.
If even 2K isn’t enough to have curation I do see this as a missed opportunity. How could newcomers start earning if 50% of the payout isn’t theirs and upvoting has no sense because I would earn them any pal at all!

bestbroplayer (54) · 6 years ago

This!!!

r0nd0n (63) · 6 years ago

We're working diligently to add decimal precision asap, so you'll be seeing curation rewards sooner rather than later. This was a huge oversight on our part, as the token was originally planned to have a much larger distribution initially, but with a distribution of less than a factor of 10 of steem's, decimal precision (possibly to the 8th place) will be essential.

josephsavage (65) · 6 years ago

It's not about the distribution, it's about the valuation. If you had targeted a valuation of 0.01 and released 100x as many to everyone, then the lack of decimal precision would be much less of a problem, even without wide distribution. In fact, wider distribution would make the problem worse, because the wider the distribution the fewer the tokens each average individual holds.

The fact that nobody ever sat down with a calculator and asked 'how much PAL does an account need to deliver 1 PAL in rewards?' and used that to guide the coin/drop parameters is a glaring oversight. The minimum needed to deliver a 2 PAL upvote (1 PAL each at 50/50) was greater than the maximum coindrop of 2500 PAL.

Nobody can earn curation unless they were inner circle or bought in. That's a little bigger than an 'oops'.

r0nd0n (63) · 6 years ago

Distribution is definitely a factor, as it gives a frame of reference. When you say that 2500 PALcoin stake should reward 2 PAL on a post, you're essentially saying that a 37k SP account on steem should award 30 steem for an upvote. Your logic is faulty because you're basing this off what you've expected on steem, and this token has a much lower supply than steem. The problem is decimal precision, and that's being fixed asap.

josephsavage (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

Decimal precision and valuation are opposite sides of the same PALcoin.

0.01 PAL with PAL at 1 STEEM is the same thing as 1 PAL at 0.01 STEEM

For the record, what's done is done and at this point decimal precision is the solution. My point is not that it should by 1 PAL, it's that your 'average' user should be able to earn the minimum transferable increment from a 100% upvote. If that's 1 PAL at 0.000001 STEEM each or 0.000001 PAL at 1 STEEM each is completely irrelevant.

Edit: I didn't say that 2500 should reward 2 PAL; obviously that would be a totally broken inflation rate. What I said is that the tokenomics should have been checked to ensure that you didn't have to be an insider to earn curation.

fullcoverbetting (69) · 6 years ago

Like I wrote in my comment it is easier tot criticize than to make something!
But it is great that the project team has this on the roadmap!
As long as a project evolves it is great! Some choices will turn out wrong, some spot on! As long as there are more correct decisions then wrong ones, it will head into a great project!
Cheers,
Petet

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juliakponsford (70) · 6 years ago

decimal precision is coming in the next week, so that will definitely improve the user experience! It was calculated earlier this week that around 1600 to about 2k gives a full PAL on a post at 100% but that is fluctuating wildly at the moment so it is too early to tell where that will stabilize :)

fullcoverbetting (69) · 6 years ago

I knew that decimals was on the roadmap and with the case of @whatsup it shows that it is vital to make this into a gamechanger!
Thx for the info!
Cheers,
Peter

juliakponsford (70) · 6 years ago

No problem, we are catching the issues as they come and doing our best to balance them :D

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whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

I'm not clear if the decimal thing is only a display thing or if it goes to rewards as well.

I guess no token would want to make it so no one wants to buy, I guess finding a good balance where if people buy it makes a difference is still a goal.

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fullcoverbetting (69) · 6 years ago

I can understand the economic model behind it, and they did give a way a lot!
But with this information I do find it an unbalanced playfield.
Just my 2 cents. And yes I do understand that it is easier to criticize than to build something!

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

oh yeah, I wasn't disagreeing. I hate the idea of buying to catch up instead of buying to get ahead. :)

We will see how it develops. I can say, with DRAMA even (much simpler) it felt different in reality to how I saw it in my head. The team is engaged and listening to feedback, so I'm going to watch it develop and participate.

On SteemIt no one is even listening.

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fullcoverbetting (69) · 6 years ago

Lot’s of truth in that!
For sure they will tweak the project and process.
I know that Drama is around but no idea what is does and what the use case is!
Nowadays there are soo many tokens that it is hard to catch up and stay up to date!
So I will just focus on the gambling tokens. Trying to make a difference there with separating the legit projects from the scams. We even created a @fairbet account for that!
That keeps me busy enough!

My idea was to use Pal for the moment steem would also for the 50/50 split!
Still curious how it will evolve!
Time will tell!
Cheers,
Peter

theguruasia (67) · 6 years ago

@whatsup,
You became a whale there! Nice I also found 5 PALs now and earning more!

Cheers~

aggroed (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

Linear rewards means rewards are proportional to Steem Power.
Exponential rewards means that rewards are proportional to Steem Power squared.

PALnet uses 1.05 as the exponent. It's essentially linear, but slightly non-linear to encourage people to keep power on 1 account rather than to spread to bot armies. You lose approximately 3.5% of your max reward power by spreading out a 30,000 SP account to 2 15,000 SP accounts. I haven't done a million examples of the rest of the math, but that's what it's meant to discourage.

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Yep, I get the why. Now it is time to see the results and how it works out.

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thebluewin (60) · 6 years ago (edited)

The good thing about the curation rewards is that there will be more decimals for the PAL rewards soon, so that won't be a problem hopefully in a few days (weeks?) and everyone can earn something.

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

I'm not sure if the decimals are a display thing only, but that is the impression I have.

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inertia (73) · 6 years ago

It'll be a sidechain contract feature. The token owner will be able to add precision, but be unable to remove precision.

So that means it won't be just a display-only feature, once adjusted.

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Cool, thank you for the answer.

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crimsonclad (66) · 6 years ago

I think you're not wrong, and it's going to feel for these first few days especially because the very first people voting were smashing them votes and were really making waves in the pond, if you will. Decimal precision is up and coming next, very shortly.

One thing that I like to point out is that even with coming changes to better tune this week old system, there will be earning methods that require no previous stake and some of which will also be nerfed for team members (like chatting in the discord, commenting on posts, and other options), and that your initial inclusion in the claimdrop allows you to plan what you want to do with your PAL. You have the power to earn and double dip, freely given to you, and a much better overall distribution to start within. Better yet, you need to do absolutely nothing different to be able to get multiple token rewards and to open new avenues to you. You are now in the position that you could do everything exactly the same today, but end up with additional resources yourself, at a greater rate and in an additional token than you did yesterday.

We've talked enough that I actually agree with most of your points, but am also pretty stoked on ways that are already going out to help balance issues that are being felt. If the biggest problem we have to solve is that people are so excited about the project that they want to be big, we have a HUGE and important job to do... but also a joyful and motivated one. I am especially excited to see our curation initiative start taking the lead more than the existing 'whale' types will given some changes made in the last day or two around it. What I can tell you is that where you are today has the potential to put you in a better position than yesterday, and what you decide to do with it is your choice. That bit of control and that bit of opportunity matter, I think. I know you know that and I offer that not as a counter to what you are saying, but as a base for all of us to build off of.
I appreciate you not apologizing too much at the end~

As per another conversation, I can't confirm that there may or may not be a PAL-type-world in the works...

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Yep, just a progress report with both pros and cons.

I love the fact that you guys are watching responding and engaging and that right there is going to make a huge difference.

khaleelkazi (75) · 6 years ago

I managed to buy a bunch on Steem Engine/Discord when I realized that 90% of people would dump after the claimdrop. I got lucky in that way. I hope they do something about the curve though, I think you need about 4000 PAL staked to see your vote at around 2 PAL for 100% (I could be wrong on that). I see a lot of potential here though and posting/curating feels fun and engaging again as in the early days when I first joined Steemit.com.

revisesociology (73) · 6 years ago

Hopefully it will evolve to be something more than people involved with PAL getting rewarded for writing posts about PAL.

That's mostly what I've seen this week.

Early days I know but it doesn't stop that being irritating.

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oldtimer (75) · 6 years ago

Reinventing wheel?

revisesociology (73) · 6 years ago

A regressive cycle feels like a more suitable analogy - or inverse ripples in a pond - with successive smaller rings reflecting on the preceding ring until the whole illussion disappears.

There's some kind of really clever water/ fishy analogy in there somewhere I'm sure.

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whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

This is true and some of the team is already talking about this. (I am not on the team, but I've heard some of them saying they realize this.)

revisesociology (73) · 6 years ago

Well at least they're aware.

For me that old style front end, the large rewards for the in-crowd and nothing for most... that's regressive - like when I first joined Steem. Just horrible.

Still, it's an interesting test for the 50-50 curation.

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eonwarped (68) · 6 years ago

The curve is strong with this one.

marcusantoniu26 (62) · 6 years ago

I tested PALNET 2 days ago. I am trying to understand the similarities and differences with Steemit. Lets hope I get some votes form the PALNET community!

jeezzle (70) · 6 years ago

Well I certainly disagree about the inclusive claim drop.

southernwolf (53) · 6 years ago

Yeah, I have very little hope of ever earning an Pal tokens from PALNET... But still a cool alternative.

However, I agree as well that this makes me all the hungrier for sporking steem before #HF21

#MakeSporkHappen2019 #MakeSteemGreatAgain

kryptik (63) · 6 years ago

It only makes sense to try PAL at this point.

I feel like at the very least we could use a serious rebrand. Look what that did for NEO.

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

I agree. But we would need new stakeholders for that to matter.

We have what we have.

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bitcoinflood (77) · 6 years ago

Some things have already been updated such as the site speed it is far faster then it was just a day or two ago and I love to see how quickly action was taken.

These first few payouts are going to look weird I am sure but I am trying to do my best to 1) Support the system 2) of course help my position as well. (you'd be crazy not to lol)

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Yes, the team has been very responsive which is why I listed that as the first PRO part of the project.

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chesatochi (72) · 6 years ago

Where you can view the list of token hodlers of Palnet?

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thebluewin (60) · 6 years ago

https://steem-engine.rocks/tokens/PAL/richlist?sort_field=stake&sort_order=desc

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chesatochi (72) · 6 years ago

Thank you so much. :)

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mindtrap (74) · 6 years ago

I was hoping for some great news it terms of curation...but it seems that (at least for now) that's not the case...

I am very optimistic that thing will roll way better in the next few weeks as even now many haven't any idea of what PAL platform is...not to mention all the unclaimed tokens

followbtcnews (67) · 6 years ago

I see 49 Pal received from curation on that image which is = to $3.43 at current market price.. That's awesome!!!!

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago (edited)

That is not what I received, that is what others received. Since I voted on it at about the right time it and didn't receive any. That's my question is who did and at what level does one have to be to get any of that.

I'm not sure if you misunderstand my point or what you are seeing.

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josephsavage (65) · 6 years ago

Maybe they sliced up so fine that lack of decimal precision made everyone get 0.

chekohler (70) · 6 years ago

It seems like an inherent problem the first movers are ones with means and insight so they rack up the wealth and the rest fight over the scraps @simplymike was just telling me the same thing!

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shabaperween (62) · 6 years ago

Thanks for update about palnet it is new for us.

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travoved (65) · 6 years ago

Still didn't try it, but I'm very close for it! Maybe at weekend I will...

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adenijiadeshina (66) · 6 years ago

It really look promising. I guess I also need to check mine also to see how it is going. But I believe it is here to stay

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mightypanda (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

I dont get curation comment. If your is top 100 account, then curation will anyways be distributed based on %. So irrespective of your PAL sp, you should still get curation.

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mikepm74 (66) · 6 years ago

agreed on just about every point here! I mentioned elsewhere how disheartening it feels to have purchased tokens, staked them, and then not see the post value move at all when I smash the 100%.

Where is this richlist you speak of? That's one thing I have missed so far. I did have to run over and check your wallet as a basis for comparison, and I'm a wee bit ahead of you so far. Though with post rewards like this one compared to my posts, you will be ahead of me without having to buy a single PAL in no time.

It's all fun though! makes coming to check out my feed daily something I look forward to again!

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steemmatt (69) · 5 years ago (edited)

Not that I'm on it, but could you please share the link to that PAL rich list?

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