Swimming in a Sea of Downvotes and I Still Think They Are Needed.

in busy •  5 years ago 

As anyone who follows me knows I have been an advocate of downvotes and my words are being tested.

I will not say that I think all of the downvotes users are getting are fair or short term good for the economy. but they are part of the system and without them it is impossible to build this into a strong platform. See Whaleshares for an explanation.

We are in what I would call a phase where a new pecking order is being determined and downvotes are being normalized. I see more and more posts talking about downvoting but I do hope some sanity will return once this "New Toy" Phase has is over. It's new, and people are still figuring out how to act and how to react. Myself included.

The debate is turning to should you explain your downvotes or not. Hardly anyone feels that all upvotes should be explained so I think the same rules should apply. After all downvoting is just an expression of exercising your fair share of the reward pool.

srake rewards.jpg

In our DPOS system our SteemPower gives us the right to allocate our own share at exactly the influence level that you hold. From the point of view of "content" that might not seem fair, but when you look at it at the "Ownership" level it seems perfectly fair to me.

A stakebased inflation pool allocated by the stakeholders up and down is what we have. The revenge downvotes and so called circlejerk upvotes are built into the system too.

A stakebased system is fair in that the Stakeholders have the right to allocate the pool. Don't confuse that with the ability to make perfect decisions or even good ones. I usually think of it like business ownership. Owning the business doesn't mean you know all the right moves to make, but it does give you the power to make them. If the wrong decisions are made it can damage the business which should give the owner reasons to correct their behavior.

With all that being said, despite having some feelings, on an intellectual level I accept my downvotes as the consequence for being outspoken, allocating my share of the reward pool both up and down and as part of our young economy.

I hope at some point soon our attention will turn away from our own politics and focus on Steem being a fun place to be and gathering and supporting new users.

Don't forget to enjoy #shitpostsunday within your timezone. The idea isn't to actually post shit, it is to make a casual post and to remember not everyone wants to be a serious content creator. If we have good moderation via upvotes and downvotes casual posts, such as my own should not be a problem.

@whatsup

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I still don't downvote much even with the new system. I set my line at spam or abuse for the most part. Maybe, I'm just too nice.

"The debate is turning to should you explain your downvotes or not."

I can see a reason for it if one thinks the downvoted will correct whatever caused the flag but Idk if it is always necessary.

Yeah, If I think the user is new to the economy I will explain it, but those who are more seasoned should accept them.

Truth. I tripped more about them when I was new than I do now. I hardly ever get them anyway, though. I might be more salty if it happened regularly. lol

On a related topic, I have noticed more downvote trolls than usual since I have been back and I suspect that is a result of the new downvote system. I got hit by those d-bags twice in the last week (not that their votes counted for anything with their 15 Steem). I am all for removing rewards from those who don't deserve them but mass flagging random people is a dick move in my book. Plus it is the type of thing that would really discourage a new user whose skin might not be so thick. One of my friends on here quit because she overreacted to some random tiny flags. Her absence in on her but dickish downvotes are what pushed her to decide to leave.

Yeah, I agree the sensitive types and those who really want to be right at all times are going to struggle.

I don't hold out for expectations of competing with facebook. lol... I think we shall remain a niche, because it is very difficult to cater to the overly emotional.

I would agree with that. We can't have it both ways here. Few would want to operate under a steemit "nanny state" but that is what it would take to make this place "safe" for those who lack our grit. We are pretty free as it stands so I guess a few unearned flags are the price we must pay. I'm fine with that but I'd still like to slap the shit out of whoever is running those flag troll accounts lol.

I couldn't agree more.

Also, I think communities and SMTs might help.

Someone can make the snowflake tribe for the sensitive and someone can make the radical free speech site for the brave.

I probably land in the middle edging towards the free speech side. But then people can pick their poison.

Haha yeah they can call themselves the Cry Tribe and call their tokens Tears. lol

Maybe, I'm just too nice.

No!! @artisticscreech you are not a nice or cool chap nor any other similar bollocks like that in the least. You just got the right dosage of healthy Synderesis running inside your intellectual & biological system.

In the proverbial case I'd stumble with some content I don't like, I just ignore it and would move on. But if by chance, I dared to downvote em in the least, of course you will count with an extensive explanation about why the fuck I downvoted em.

I guess this world is already saturated of so many SJW. ¡WTF!

With steemauto now offering downvote trails for those of us who don't have time to lurk the steem all day, I am not at all opposed to using my stake to trail downvoters who downvote overvalued posts. I am not scared of retribution - I don't post nearly enough for it to matter. Who should I trail?

Who should I trail?

You should trail No One. You only should Upvote & Downvote everything CONSCIOUSLY!!

C'mon @techslut. After three long years wandering around here, you SHOULD know this better. ;p

Should. Yeah. I should also finish my book, 3 work deadlines, 2 washing machines and a Steem post which I've been wanting to write for two weeks now. I wish I had the time to curate. I do. What's the alternative? Abandoning my account and letting my stake just sit there collecting dust?

What's the alternative? Abandoning my account and letting my stake just sit there collecting dust?

Well yeah, DUST eh?

Following unwarily just a bunch of popular "Brainless & Blind" trails won't save you to collect just more pure worthless dust specks. };)

So, go ahead and, if anything, sign up and create your own private & personal Trail on Steemauto simply selecting a good chunk of your own most appreciated favorite authors on the steem blockchain.

In this way, if though not totally 'conscious' about what sort of content you are upvoting to collect the alleged real value of your 50% 'curation' rewards in real time. At least subconsciously you'll know what the heck you are 'curating' because it will certainly be much easier for you to pinpoint, follow, read, digest and enjoy in deferred time the content of what you are actually curating. :)

So... trailing steemstem and openmic are bad ideas? And if I can't manually curate I shouldn't bother?

So... trailing steemstem and openmic are bad ideas?

Uhm yeah. Mostly it is a bad idea madam. At least not as good as creating and arranging your own private personal trail that you can manage & control as you please. In such a way that when you then have some free time to check minutely what the heck you actually have voted and 'curated'. Afterwards, you also will have the opportunity to read, digest & enjoy the fruits of your 'curation' work calmly. };)

What is this "free time" you speak of?

Lol, should just do like I have done, pull out 75-80% of your Steem and start trading it for other crypto to insulate it's value and earn more in the long run! You can't downvote a Bitcoin, no matter how hard you try! ;)

(But seriously, I've pull most of my Steem out and have earned a lot more trading it elsewhere. If Steem ever recovers, I'll bring some back.)

We seem hell bent on tearing apart the community we have left.
It was an experiment to me.

Love the #shitpostsunday idea, and also love this thumbnail. Probably will move my weekly thumbnail thing to Sundays so it can become a shit post Sunday post and people can downvote that shit properly lol

:$

This post has been included in the latest edition of The Steem News - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.

The debate is turning to should you explain your downvotes or not. Hardly anyone feels that all upvotes should be explained so I think the same rules should apply.

Dunno, but I would like to receive an explanation for every vote, up- and downvote. What is good, what is bad, etc.
Communication is key to get the message clearly without retalation to the user.

Also is there a downvote trail to fight #contentshaming?

On another note: I think framing is really important, can we make it more like #casualpostsunday?^^

(Damn I'm kinda hypnotised by his tie now...)

Yeah, we should make it casual post Sunday and I even considered it...

I just didn't have same ring, but I agree that framing is important..

Also, totally hypnotized by the tie! :)

Since 15 days a steemcleaner downvote all of my comments, no matter what I write to which theme, but yet I'm happy to know that's my way to make a contribution to build this into a strong platform.

Well, shit happens, we should take it with a sense of humor, right?😁

Do you know why they were downvoted? I think there can be an appeals process.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

No, but when this started steemcleaners destroyed one Posting of me, what was deserved to be serious (Copyright).

The thing is, we talked on Discord about this and I accepted their reason, so we were ok after that, just one of them didn't stop to follow me and to downvote all my comments.The problem is, I've no idea why because he doesn't answer me when I try to contact him here or on Discord.

I'm having some discussions with people I've downvoted, but there are limits to how long I can persist with people who just don't get that Steem is supposed to be about community voting. I do not downvote in retaliation. It is always for adjusting rewards I think are unearned.

There was one case this week where I downvoted a comment where a vote was bought, but it turned out someone else bought it and I removed my downvote. I believe in fairness and am not looking for fights. I just want Steem to be better.

I agree, if they are new I will explain it to them. If not.. or if they keep on repeating the same things, I just start to ignore them after a while.

but let's be honest. There are sadly very few new users to the system, just old users with new accounts trying it on so I admire your patience!

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

I agree, that we don't have tons of new users but we have some.

My patience is due to the bear market and understanding economies work in cycles.

I think many are falsely equating our price/users with whatever their pet peeves are.

Traditional economies do work in cycles, but sometimes as part of that, the wheels completely fall off! We will see, but I absolutely agree with..

I think many are falsely equating our price/users with whatever their pet peeves are

The price/users are mostly determined by the overall Crypto scene but thats sad as we have so much more to offer than practically any other chain. Its the mindset towards Steem in the wider community that needs to be changed.

When we act like we hold value instead of being a bunch of cry baby losers, people will want to get onboard.

No one wants to join a losing team who's leaders are wailing... WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING

You might have missed all that, but it was counter productive.

I hope at some point soon our attention will turn away from our own politics and focus on Steem being a fun place to be and gathering and supporting new users.

Very well said sir, yes we need to show to the new users how happy place this community is... to make them stay here.. coz newcomers/newusers is the key for the growth of a community..

Yeah, maybe some day we can focus on where we are headed and who we want to retain.

I hope that will happen very soon ^^

Me too

@whatsup,
Honestly I have thought things might get changed after #NewSteem, but seems it's not. Yeah Circle jerks are still there and a real battle against them still not organized well!
Anyway I against downvotes, but sometimes yeah I do!
$trdo

Cheers~

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)

Maybe consider @steemflagrewards. I also have a small trail, but we are totally getting revenge downvoted.

My only complaint about SteemFlagRewards is that they will not stop using the world abuse. However, I think they make good decisions.

I would also recommend @steevc as he is one of the most level headed Steem users I know.

This was directed at @techslut

Maybe we should call it misuse instead. I think @techslut is already following my downvotes. That puts some pressure on me to ensure they are justified.

Yeah, that's the wording we are looking to push out. Well, after Anthony comes back I suppose.

We have the new wordings/definitions, etc. But, they aren't live yet.

I am really glad to hear that! I look forward to seeing them.

Hi, @whatsup!

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Flagged for being part of the @adsactly circle jerk crew. More coming!

Okay

I think there is some abuse on the Steemit platform and shockingly it seems like you are the worst abuser on the Steemit platform. :(
I think a lot of people make fair and just downvotes and some people make mistakes but you seem to actually be fully abusive. :(

You are the first and only downvote that I have felt was actually fully deserved. I think I did deserve to get flagged by an evil person like you. :(

https://steemit.com/haejin/@mysearchisover/pyv1k8

If you want to be our new leader you will have to learn to handle disagreement a bit better.

I downvoted you for promoting a comment for a $5 vote. I would do it again. It's not personal.

In fact I've enjoyed many of your posts.

It is 100% totally personal to me this time. If you value your precious little downvote more than me I think you are a mean and nasty person and possibly the worst person on the blockchain. I even offered you a bounty ransom. I was joking around when I was calling acidyo a nazi but you kind of remind me of a nazi in the not joking evil way.

I did have a slight inclination you thought of me and the others as "pets".

I think I noticed you did help flag Haejin's posts into oblivian. Sure maybe he did a retaliatory flag to you but do you really think it was right to completely take away 100% of his earnings?

Usually I never take downvotes personal. I think they are usually a mistake but I don't think yours was a mistake and I think it is a mistake having you on the platform.

I don't really care if my votes provided you with entertainment. If they did the next one might make up for it.

Moving forward I will be watching your downvotes, no longer upvoting your posts, and flagging you.

I used to enjoy your posts but won't anymore. :(