While listening to SteemSpeak on Discord the last few days, of course, we've talked about 50/50 Author/Curator rewards. We have seen many different opinions, but one thing that isn't being discussed is the Application Fees.
dMania, Dtube and other application also take a cut of Author Rewards.
@thedegensloth keeps reminding us of this often forgotten piece of the equation.
Many non-business minded people just skip over the point that the developers of our applications also need a source of Revenue. Many of them are opting to take a bite of the Author Rewards.
So, when considering any mathematical changes to the Steem Economy, we also have to consider where are the financial incentives for the application creators?
I'm not trying to sway anyone to either side, just a reminder that I've seen very few people mention the future of Application Developers on Steem.
https://discord.gg/M7x3Wq Link to SteemSpeak, Join the discussion.
That's all,
@whatsup
@whatsup,
Oh I see, I also forgot that app dev fee! I am still hang on with STEEMIT and not using most of DAPPs due to that fee! Anyway if 50/50 this might be an issue! Thanks for highlighting it!
Cheers~
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I had already pointed out to @thedegensloth like two days ago: dApps with a delegation or investment behind them would be earning more curation rewards. Then I said, now factor in popularity. If more votes start rolling in on quality work, the dapp stands a chance to earn more per vote provided they've voted in a timely manner. Were dtube creators not coming out with 50% already before after everything was said and done? Where did the other 50% go? 25% curators, 25% fees? Content producers were still working there. What is 25% plus 25%? 50%. They don't need to charge a fee, they're already getting it with 2x more curation reward. Right? Sounds reasonable.
Another thing I thought about today with SMT and the ability to adjust how much percentage of those tokens goes where, to who and for what. Before SMT's come out, are we already saying that feature is pointless because everyone will want 75%/25%? Lets use our noggins here, people. Setting steemit at 50/50 then allows SMT's to have that function to be competitive.
Also, talking about percentages. If this place had hundreds of millions of members contributing, do you realize a content producer would be able to earn a fair amount of money with a 10% cut while 90% goes to curators? It's all about taking a smaller percentage but earning more in bulk (incoming votes). Tens of thousands of incoming votes would mean a nice payday at 50/50 but then the curators sharing between tens of thousands get near zilch. In business, taking in a lower percentage per unit (post) with hopes of earning more in bulk (incoming votes) is one of the most common money making strategies around. Of course that depends on token being worth more so here's to hoping!
And what the hell! How come no one is talking about SP and being offered the incentive to power up and earn more through curation? Why do I have 24000 SP? Because when I started, we were all encouraged to power up. That's why so many of us have SP now. What's being encouraged these days? Give me your money, "invest" in your content, get views that don't pay and followers that quit after a month. Enjoy your wonderful "profits" as you run all the way to the bank! What a dumb idea that was. Holding SP is good for everyone. Personally using it as tool to earn creates a positive feedback loop. More votes with more value behind them. This isn't rocket science.
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I love the final paragraph. (There are good points above too) Look, the "Investors" (which I think is a funny name to call people who are falling over each other to take money out, even after 8.5% Inflation, it still isn't enough.. As long as they care more about stacking coins than growing the site, you can create any mathematical setting you want and it isn't going to matter.
Yep, we powered up, we built a following, we curate, we engage with others, ... Are you having any fun yet? lol, don't mind me I'm annoyed today, very annoyed.
Plenty of time to discuss and discuss and discuss by with method the stakeholders are going to ignore the site, but no time to build the site, build the community and allow some people to earn some stake. Ehh...
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So many factions wanting to work against each other instead of with each other is incredibly annoying. Since my main focus here is content creator first and curator second, sure, I'll stand up for content creators; but this doesn't mean I despise investors and witnesses and developers, etc. I support it too but I'm in no position to speak for that position. I can only talk about what I think I know.
So today, since I've been following along and reading the opinions of different factions, I came across a line published in a post by someone who's a witness and I'd say leans more towards putting developers and apps over everything else. This was said:
With such excitement, this guy throws nearly everyone under the bus. Do you know what Steem Monsters would be without content creators? Nothing! The music, the art. Who did that! The countless promotional posts, shared videos on the topic; who did that! The money pouring in to purchase these items. Where did that come from! Content creators! LOL! That thing would be nothing without content creators and he didn't even give anyone an ounce of credit. I took it like we're treated like lesser humans. Bottom feeders. I lost my shit. I've been pissed off all day...
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I get it. I'm frustrated today too. Watching the conversations from people who mostly have done little but collect. (Gosh, I suck today)
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was wondering when someone would finally bring that factor in.
So the content creator takes the time, thought and effort to create the content ... the reader takes some time to read / listen to it and there would be an even split... not of labour but rewards.
The content creator receives lower return of value for effort. It can be argued that this would give incentive to better returns on the post so they may gain in the long run.
And then there is the Apps which take a beneficiary. Under the currrent system, I don't begrudge the beneficiary. The developer has put their time and effort into providing a service through which I can present my content in a better manner.
Under a 50/50 split the content creator would then surrender another 10% or more in order to use those apps. That leaves the content creator needing to decide between just about giving away their original work or not using the Apps thus rendering the developers work moot.
I lean toward leaving the current system in place which serves to make a fairer break toward App developers who are expanding the ecosystem.
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I agree with you @shadowspub, the small content creator does not have the exposure to give them more curation. Tell the new guy he get's 50% and one large SP holder comes in with his vote and takes most of the pie....really not encouraging.....
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Yeah, I have really mixed feelings and the more I discuss it, the more I think we will likely just have to grind away and hope SMTs will add a layer of rewards that makes more sense.
Many of the investors will attempt and be successful at stacking coins no matter what equation looks like.
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Agreed. Even here under the 50/50 split I will need to change my posts. I can't bring myself to put in 10+ hours of research on a post that those who read it will get an equal slice of. It also will make me rethink how much if any I am able to donate to worthy causes here, as I am also going to need to pay taxes on my cut and would like something left for me, lol.
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This kind of sounds punitive in nature... If you change the rewards, I'm going to punish you... First, you don't know for sure if you would lose or gain.
:)
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Not punitive, realistic. I can say for a fact that I will lose more per my average post under the 50/50 split than I will gain by doubling my curation rewards for weeks. Also, as someone else on another thread pointed out, it would be like being on a treadmill earning others their passive income. It feels wrong to do all the work researching and putting together a post that can take 10-20 hours and those reading it get the same rewards. Now that sounds punishing :P
For those type of posts, I would probably consider going back into self publishing again.
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I think you are missing one piece of the "idea". I am not a writer, I don't want to be a writer. I write to spread some vision of the Steem economy to attempt to set realistic expectations and to share a bit...
I write every day, because it pays for the curation and engagement that I do. If I can earn just as much from reading, curating and commenting, I no longer have a need to post every day.
Now I can just enjoy your posts, and earn from the real work that I do supporting others.
I would still write when I thought there was something important to say, but I would rather curate and engage with others most days. I am not promising it would work, but it is part of the idea.
I am not alone.
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I didn't miss that, and know there are many here that run the gamut of what is offered. I can only speak for myself, and potentially others who put lots of effort into their posts, whether it be research pieces, art, music etc. I see that for myself my share lessens, and as a result I would modify my approach. Less research intensive posts coupled with less giving of my rewards as that share (and more) of what I have been earning is now going straight to those who may curate it.
As for the curation and engaging, I do that as well. I am here every day curating and engaging. It is not as labor intensive as researching, and in many ways is much more enjoyable. :)
However it falls, I am blessed that it fell this way as long as it has. As the saying goes, when one door closes another opens.
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Yeah, I agree you do those things also... I was just saying it could reduce the noise and the number of posts and make content discovery easier.
to be honest, I doubt very much anything will happen, and if it does,.. it will take time.
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Let's say the theory is correct, and 50/50 increases manual upvotes, making content creators earn more.
There is going to be less/no reason to use apps since the only reason they're used is because they give out big upvotes with their delegated STEEM Power.
You don't need dMania to post memes on Steemit and you don't need dTube to embed a video on Steemit. You don't need Zappl to post short-form content on Steemit.
Etc.
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There's a huge assumption steemit will always be free, that they will continue to host images data without some cost to users in the long run. Multiple apps bring more entry points into the chain which means more exposure to the network.
I mean even Ned is making a new app which he says he hopes brings in a lot of new users. No fee's no images and video uploading in the long run because of huge costs. It's fee's or ads. Also those fee's help app's help stack sp and grow which means they can generate more user accounts as well.
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That's a really interesting point and I think partially true. However, there are many reasons for apps besides earning... filtering content, uploading video, attracting a specific group of end-users and specific content interests to name just a few.
I was thinking if we ever gain any volume in users though, it could be a minimal fee.
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Why don't we let the investors decide which one to invest/delegate? The whole delegation thing from Steeminc is not encouraging any investors imho.
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I believe this discussion is not worth to consider in the current state. Better to wait the SMT.
Posted using Partiko Android
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This is a great consideration that needs to be attended as more DApps come onboard. We cannot think that developers will not want to continue to secure funding by establishing themselves as benefactors of their creations unless they have the delegation behind them. This further dilutes the perception of lower rewards for authors. I say perception because it is not a given as there could be a theory that more curation will lead to more upvotes to authors due to increased engagement.
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Early on Crowdfunding works, but not as much any more.
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If smt's are all about rewarding folks, why would i buy one?
Put me down as skeptical that created from thin air tokens are going to help out the value of our created from thin air coin.
Either steem gets a viable economy or smt's will be doa.
I hope we dont have to go back to .07usd to see the mistakes reversed.
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Haha, I'm thinking we might see .07 again.
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Doesnt look like the top is ready to admit that dan knew better than them.
We got to wait until after smt's whiff it to get changes?
Smdh.
And what is with that chart?
Do they seriouly find people that think that it wont be shown to be a winner?
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50/50 split is too much for the small time-earning Authors to give.
In my opinion.
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I agree @cryptopie, this is not going to encourage authors to post more. We just had a bomb of HF-20 do we need to do it again with price and rewards down as it is......We will all suffer from this!
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I think the idea is to get people to engage with other posts, remember you will also earn more by engaging and voting for other posts.
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What if you can make an equal amount of money from reading and engaging with others?
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someone needs to address the curation reward splits, larger SP holders will just clean house with curation..
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Curation is a limited activity @whatsup and if I would have a double earning from my current curation efforts because of 50/50 it will still be a loss.
It is hard to curate while competing with bots.
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That could be true, I'm not advocating for Mathematical solutions. I think when we value our end users we will have an easier time keeping them.
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Yay, another test for a bot. Sorry about this. Enjoy the upvote though.
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Congrats, someone thinks that your post was good enough to be deserving of a vote. Enjoy it.
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Hi @whatsup!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 6.233 which ranks you at #229 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has dropped 4 places in the last three days (old rank 225).
In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 490 contributions, your post is ranked at #8.
Evaluation of your UA score:
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