This may be a somewhat controversial move - but it's probably best done before the project goes on any longer.
As of this post, I am raising the post beneficiaries amount (the amount shared with the platform) up to 15% of rewards. Previously this value was set at 1% for testing while I discussed the options for growing chainBB with others.
The goal of this post is to explain why and potentially even spark some excitement about it.
Why the increase?
I want chainBB to grow into something big, and in order to effectively grow it, it needs to establish a steady stream of revenue for itself and those who contribute to it.
The site you see on beta.chainbb.com today is incredibly minimal in it's features. I'd estimate about 200-300 hours went into the initial prototype on steemdb and the development that went into chainBB itself. These hours were all put in by me - primarily because I love prototyping out applications and doing things no one's done.
However, to move beyond the prototype state it's going to take a lot more than just my efforts. It will take a couple people, some decent infrastructure, and a lot of time. I am still working on the estimates on what it would take to make chainBB "feature complete" and launch a community platform, but my initial guess is somewhere between 3-6 months with a small team.
What does the new rewards model for chainBB look like?
The current model on the Steem blockchain (and steemit.com) divides the reward pool up like so:
- 75% to the Authors
- 25% to the Curators
This new model, which only applies to posts created using chainBB, will further divide the 75% to Authors, creating the following model:
- 60% to the Authors
- 25% to the Curators
- 15% to the Platform (chainBB)
If I could instead take a cut of curation rewards instead of author rewards, I would. Curation is effectively meaningless on chainBB since voting don't impact visibility and is purely for support.
Why was 15% chosen?
I won't dive too much into detail, as this post is growing large enough, but I sat down and created a list of all the people that should be rewarded for participating within a forum-type ecosystem:
- chainBB team (devs/marketers/designers/etc)
- participants
- moderators
- forum organizers/owners
- forum operators
- investors
The "participants" (e.g. people writing posts) are already rewarded for participation through the blockchain - but none of these other crucial roles have any opportunity to be rewarded unless they write posts. 15% is the number deducted from the Author Rewards, but in the end it won't all go to chainBB. A portion of the rewards earned will go to the roles outlined above for their incredibly valuable contributions to the platform.
As a note - the communities protocol (once released) may reward some of these roles to a degree. It will be implemented within chainBB and adjustments may be made at that time as to how this all works.
Why not crowdfund?
This post isn't meant to say that's not in the plans. This isn't replacing crowdfunding, it's designed to supplement it. When/if some sort of crowdfunding campaign begins, being able to point at a functional reward model that has helped sustain chainBB will inspire confidence in how the idea can work.
If I were an investor and had the opportunity to invest in either a business with no income or a business with income, I'd choose the one with income.
Where will these rewards go?
At this very beginning stage, the rewards will be routed to the @chainbb account and used to cover my time, potential contract developers time, server costs, legal fees, advisors and any other expenses that arise. The rewards are also paid out in Steem Power, so powering down 1/13th of this balance every week into Steem will occur.
Will it change from 15% in the future?
It might, I can't say for certain. What I can say is that I currently have no plans to increase it beyond 15%.
To the other projects out there - you should consider the same
There are a lot of great apps being built on the Steem blockchain and I'd like to see those also reach their full potential.
Having a low beneficiaries percentage (or no beneficiaries) might be a great way to attract users vs another platform, but you need to take care of yourself and your product too. We can't keep working for free, and I don't think any magical fairy is going to just drop money on your doorstep because you're doing what you said you would. Demonstrating a viable revenue model for your business is important to any current or future investors, and I don't think "writing posts and earning rewards" would be good enough.
There's also the issue of raising it once you're established. If you've run your app for a year and have grown a userbase who's used to it being free, there's likely to be a little shock (and disillusionment) once you do raise it. The smaller your userbase is when you set your beneficiaries, likely the better. If it turns out to be too much - your users will also be happy if you decrease it.
What do you think?
I'm very interested to know your thoughts on this kind of setup. As a community, we need to develop business models that will help Steem grow into a multi-site ecosystem where users have a choice on what platform they use. The biggest platform (steemit.com) doesn't have this issue because they have a mountain of Steem - but the rest of us wanting to enter this space need to find our groove.
Thank for you great work @jesta!
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Great work, Lets hope it works out for better
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I recently joined chainbb, and I'll tell you.. it's really user friendly. The work is very much appreciated. Thank you guys.
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You already have it well thought out. As to my personal opinion as owner of Steem power:
I'd like to steer way more resources for devs that build on Steem. There needs to be more info and more support so newcomers feel like they should be building on here rather than on some other chain. Cough, ethereum.
15% cut is reasonable, as your project could really be a huge deal.
Every gaming clan and community for example uses forums. That alone is a good market to tap in to.
From there it could spread like wildfire.
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Exactly :)
As I mentioned, I'd also want to reward the people starting/managing those gaming clan forums and communities as well. By going to 15% from the Author Rewards, a few % of that 15% could then go to these community builders. Maybe if a gaming clan came along and ran a forum, they'd get 1% of the rewards and chainBB would get 14%, or some other split.
Once more time is devoted to building chainBB, doing multiple splits like that to multiple accounts won't be all that difficult, all while the author still gets the 60%.
edit - fixed math
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"By going to 15% from the Author Rewards, a few % of that 15% could then go to these community builders.".
Well that's just great news, nothing wrong with giving people that extra incentive to adopt chainBB.
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I would like to start a gaming thread or two, I plan on running a community on here when it starts. How do the rewards work for authors on that site compared to steemit?
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Wise sayings @igster, hopefully @jesta could give it a try.
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I support it, and I think it is a great model for similar platforms to use going forward. We want great developers to be building tools/platforms for Steem, and it is not right to expect that these highly skilled developers put their talents to use for free.
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If you can guarantee me that you wont start your own blockchain in the future for chainBB, i will be blogging using chainBB as long as the eye can see.
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Putting me on the spot huh? ;)
Unfortunately I can't make that promise.
I can't predict or control exactly what the future holds for the Steem blockchain. I only have 1/20th of the power that witnesses hold in steering, and have no say what Steemit Inc does otherwise. On the other hand, if I was in charge of it all, I imagine that promise would be a bit easier to make.
There's a number of possible situations I can come up that would cause me to go back on my word:
What we say here is etched into the blockchain forever, so I won't make a promise to you that I can't keep.
I still occasionally hear rumblings of people wanting to bring back 50% curation rewards... which now I'm more biased against because I'm pretty sure that'd be terrible for forums.
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I think that it's great that anyone can monetize the STEEM blockchain in a way that they want. I think it's smart of you to already have your eyes on the future and realize to implement this change now before it becomes a bigger struggle. My first thought was 15% sounds high. Then I read the explanation and now think it's fair. Thanks for everything you do to make the Steem blockchain better.
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Thanks for taking the time to dive in and understand! You had the same reaction I did as well, where it seemed high that it might even turn people away. It does make sense though, and most likely steemit.com would have to do the same thing if they didn't have the funding they do.
It's an awesome business tool and I think to really plan long term, those in the space need to find ways to use it and bring value in exchange for it. My plan is to make some awesome forums :)
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Was ChainBB the forum arm of Steemit? Am I right?
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Sort of? I'm not any way affiliated with Steemit.com, but it is the forum interfacec for the Steem blockchain ;)
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Do you plan to place Ads or sell ad space?
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I think it would be website/project dependent really.
I personally don't have any plans to put ads on the chainBB platform itself or any of the communities that pop up and run within it. The post beneficiaries are designed to prevent the need for that. However, that doesn't mean other forums couldn't exist (different websites even) and sell advertising through them - still powered by the same chainBB systems, and on the blockchain. There may be situations where the community wants to run ads, who knows.
Was this question because you don't want ads or was it because you like ads and wanted to buy them? hah :)
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I'm thinking about like a signature campaign ads, an ad space to user's post, so additional profit to the users.
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Definitely a possibility, I hadn't even considered the addition of forum signatures yet. If that does happen, it'll probably be down the road, gotta get things like profile pages and editing posts working first ;)
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I wouldn't even be mad if you did, just crypto only advertising please :p
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Hah, that was one of the first things that came to mind. I actually bought icoforum.com the other day because I thought it might be neat to launch it as a place to talk about all these crazy ICOs happening lately. That would be the perfect spot for some crypto advertising.
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Can't agree more for the moment!
In the first few steps now needed, development becomes paramount , along with a progressively rising amount of proper advertisement. Great job, looking forward to seeing the results of your work as time moves on. Namaste :)
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I did not read this, but looks like a winner so here is my upvote :)
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You've earned it!
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This makes perfect sense. As an aside, adding a board or sub board could be used as a form of funding.
'Buy a Board' campaign!
...yes. This is suggested so that a games board can be made. I can be annoyingly persistent.
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LOL, yeah I should just do some research on appropriate tags and get some sort of games board running.
As for concept of selling boards - it's a good one and definitely in the plans. I just don't have the features developed to do it effectively and provide value to the owner just yet.
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Excellent app i'm trying it now
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Hope you're enjoyin!
I'm a huge fan of the forum format. Being able to remember which page I left off on with specific posts and picking up on conversations where I left off lets me stay so much more engaged with everyone else.
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This is an awesome idea, Steemit is great but it seems like its very easy for posts to get lost to the blockchain.
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By the way, as I cannot directly message you: I just saw a new dev stop his project as there wasn't much resources available for him(Info, tutorials, knowledge). We really need to get this info out asap so more people can start building.
I know you're busy as hell already and aware of this issue as you made the subforums for devs but we need someone to fill it with info and be rewarded well for it. Maybe we need some kind of campaign for this to get done.. which shouldn't be the case.
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Well that's no good! We can't hemorrhage what little developers we have!
I don't know exactly what to do to fix it... I know there's a few dev-centric/inviting projects in the works (a doc site), but I don't have a direct hand in any of that. It's a hard spot - the few of us that are scraping by are consumed trying to make it work, so there's very little time for mentoring or creating documentations.
It'd be nice if there was some sort of developer-evangalist position within Steemit that just fostered and helped the dev community.
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I might be in a good position to lend a hand with that @jesta. I'm very new here, but my imagination is starting to go a bit crazy with all the possibilities. I'm not a hardcore software engineer, but I've done plenty of coding, and I'm good with css and webservers.
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Heh, I warn you, it's a bit addictive. It's crazy to imagine all the things that could benefit from a content-filled blockchain that anyone can submit to and no one necessarily controls.
But good to hear! We need to try to focus and help each other, which is why I made a steem developers forum and post the other day. I don't know how many devs might have gotten interested and been lost in the flood of posts without anyone ever seeing them say hello.
I'm not trying to be the one to spearhead the community building of it, my plate's pretty full, but I at least want to be a part of it and provide a familiar home to anyone who wants to join.
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Itchykitten, that would be a blessing for all of us and a cause I'd try to rally support for.
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Yes, we need a Steem Angels Program! You should set up a forum to attract the angel investors. Everything you come up with sounds good to me!
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A devportal is coming real soon. be patient! :-)
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I will be waiting eagerly for that @cryptoctopus
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Great! I will try to be more patient, heh.
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Patience is not my strength in dev. You have more infos about it?
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Seeing as you don't have the massive buttloads of Steem like Steemit Inc, this is a smart move. Good job man, looking forward to seeing your project grow, don't forget us when you become a mega whale :p
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Hah, I'm not sure I'll ever become a Steem whale off something like this, but don't worry about me forgettin anyone :)
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Do you know how long the web has waited for stuff like discourse? You are taking that and upgrading it, phpBB had a lifetime of like 20 years and is still going strong, this could be much bigger than you can fathom :p You just might have turned every guild, every support forum and everything in between into a profit machine. lol
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I do indeed know, it's been far far too long.
In early 2002 I had my first successful phpBB community of about 5k active users. Getting started I remember fighting on the mailing lists they used to use trying to tell them how much better a forum would be. All the way up to present day, where just last year I did the forums infrastructure for Blade and Soul.
I'm a little shocked at how slow forum tech has progressed. Forums haven't changed all that much, this could be their chance :)
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Good good, yea I've been using the same old forum softwares for years as well, tried them all, they all suck. Discourse is good enough but lacks 3rd party assets. But if you somehow get people to build cool plugins for your forums and find a way to open source it and maintain the trajectory, this might turn into your full time gig for a few years haha, beware!
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15% is perfectly OK man! I hope the project develops as you plan!
AND you're Jesta!! You deserve more than that!!
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give people a possibility to customize the percentage, give the supporters extra visibility on chainbb
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Give users the ability to increase beyond the 15%, maybe via preferences of some sort, and then give them extra visibility and features? Is that what you're driving towards?
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Sorry for my really not very descriptive comment. I wrote it from a phone.
More or less :) Actually, I would suggest to set lower minimum percentage (maybe 5% or 10%), and I would try convince people, to increase value for some kind of benefits.
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That's a good idea too, maybe they'd get a supporter badge and some advanced features if they set the percentage higher and showed support for the platform. It's almost like fundraising. Maybe there's even a way to write a post and set a "donate" flag where all/part the rewards go to something. There's some interesting things you can do with the beneficiaries system, I hope to get a few of them running :)
With what I have in mind though, I think it would hurt the chances of success if I dropped down below 15%. In the beginning it's very likely that a low percentage of the overall reward pool will go to authors using chainBB, and 15% of that isn't a large amount, especially with some of that going to the community running it.
If the site gets wildly successful it'd be smart to revisit these numbers, but I'm not convince it's smart to start lower.
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another nice project from you...nice
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Dude...if I read this post from anyone else, i'd first be like.."hmmm...is this a moneygrab?!"
BUT who deserves more rewards than you?! All your projects and contribution on steemit were awesome for their practicality...and impressive by their innovation.
I hope to see more of this project and that it will really grow into what you envision. I'll keep an eye on it!
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This is fine. You should do whatever you need to do to get ChainBB as big and great as possible. This is a project that could be a big deal and a big help to steem developers, so do whatever you need to do to grow it! -Zach
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your business, your decision man.
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I've been hearing of ChainBB, but I haven't used it. I'll check it before this week runs out. Personally I think the 15% cut isn't a bad idea. However, I think it would be better if it is like this:
Authors- 70%
Curators - 15%
ChainBB - 15%
What do you thinks @jesta?
Anyways, congrats on your amazing projects.
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I think that would be much better than the 60/25/15 - unfortunately it's not possible to do with Steem right now. The only percentage that can be adjusted is the author percent, it's not possible to change curation rewards :(
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Ok. Continue the good job!
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Thanks! It was a good idea, hopefully someday we can do things like that.
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You are welcome @jesta
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upvote and RS for u
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