NOPAL4U Guidelines 1.0

in community •  5 years ago  (edited)

The Palnet team has been working on guidelines to publish regarding what nopal4u's intended uses are and how they will be implemented.

While we have not completed ALL of the guidelines, a situation arose that required immediate attention and also requires this initial post on the use of the @nopal4u account.

This was brought to the team's attention and it was universally decided that death threats or threats of physical harm of any sort will not be tolerated under the Palnet tag.

Due to the comment as pictured, the accounts @coininstant and the account of the same user known as @honusurf have been muted from Palnet.

What this means is the following:

  1. The account is allowed to post one time per 24 hours
  2. The listed accounts are not able to downvote nor upvote any post to reward or remove Pal
  3. The accounts are no longer able to comment on Palnet posts, however, they will be visible on the Steem front-ends
  4. The accounts are still able to receive both upvotes and downvotes from other accounts
  5. Accounts are still able to use steem-engine to trade or sell

This was a nuclear option that we had hoped to not have to use

So let it be known that any threat of violence against another user will result in a Palnet mute, this includes:

  • Death Threats
  • Threats of physical violence
  • Sexual Harassment
  • Underage Pornography
  • Doxxing of another user without consent* This may be relaxed based on details and reasoning
    • Doxxing to be doxxing is not okay
    • Doxxing a known scammer may be okay

If you see anything of this nature that you feel needs to be addressed by the Palnet team. Please stop by our Discord at minnowpond.org and use the #msp-abuse-reporting channel.

This is NOT a comprehensive list that we will use. There will be updates as needed with those updates posted through the @nopal4u account. These posts will decline payout and resteems will be appreciated.

Thank you.

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@coininstant and the ftg groupies he hangs out with are extremely toxic and predatory.

Coininstant (among other people) have made threats such as saying he wants to strangle me and hopes I die on more than one occasion.

He is going around flagging tons of people and those who comment on their post then raging when someone flags him back.

They fail to understand freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.

Good to see action taken but many purist will see it as centralization. You really can’t win.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

Wish that I had enough stake to upvote the above comment even more. Level-heads non-existent on Steem? Well here is a comment from one of the most level-headed people I know, @themarkymark.

Many of us are greatly invested in the Steem platform, not just financially but emotionally. @themarkymark, as I told you once before, the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. Responding to them or mentioning them does nothing more than give them attention which they (the trolls) crave. I know, I have been known as a troll now and again!

I appreciate everything you do and your passion for this thing of ours. Have a great #canada day weekend!

Considering what's going on with valued customer there's no reason to believe unless they specifically state why each flagged individual is being flagged to trust that those flagged fall under a one paragraph one shoe fits all descriptive....because everyone on this platform who knows valued customer knows he's none of the above mentioned. There's absolutely no excuse to take out someone held in high regard among many on this platform by flagging their post because someone may not have agreed with them. Flagging their comments after they've been warned is one thing but going after their post is another.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment



Surrender? A little something told me that You were gutless.

I knew many in My Marine Corps that were like that. Looked pretty in uniform, yet when it was time to leave garrison and really get down to work...

Thanks for the tip! My grandpa was an Admiral in the US air force! He got stripes and badges, not me! I wish I could fly jets, but they won’t let me!!!

Here is his pic!

45997EB7-09DA-4D3C-906E-C3C27244A27C.jpeg

WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

The only thing coming your way are the authorities.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Have some SHIT.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

He is a troll.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment
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A couple things.

First: A good and usable front end requires rules and requirements for use. The secret is to find that balance and it looks like you guys are on the right track. Except for

Doxxing. Either it is or isn't ok. Not sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Either-Or. If you have a known scammer that needs to be doxxed I'd much rather the team be involved in this rather than adjudicate it after. In other words, if the team decides then THEY do it.

Nicely done. Haters gonna hate. Dickheads gonna dick. Really nasty people gonna be gone. I'm good with that.

Have some SHIT.

Those some new bots without any stake you're upvoting yourself with, or just obsequious panderers hoping to suck an upvote out of you?

BTW, would you comment on your position regarding the Downvote Pool? I'd be interested in what you think of it.

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

Doxxing is exposing a person's off line information. Like Name, Address, Phone Number. That's the reason I think it can't be OK except in the most extreme circumstances.

Thank you for your kind and prompt reply @bigtom13

Appreciate it a lot.
Piotr

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

I fully agree with @sunlit7.

@Valued-customer is indeed very valuable here within communities.

Yours
Piotr

If you are pulling the 'over the top humor' from the other post where I quoted the guidelines from our really old post, those are meant mostly for Discord.

We do intend to revise a different set eventually for palnet.io instead, as you are correct, some of them really shouldn't apply here the same way they do in chat.

We would value input on these, if you want to get a hold of me in Discord, we can figure out a good way to get suggestions taken in.

The first thing I'd recommend would be to NOT try to be everybody's platform. Communities are coming, and the one size fits all model fits no one best. Bespoke communities are going to fit most people best. PAL should aim for a particular market segment, and not try to fit all the outliers in. The rules should reflect that focus.

Without knowing the target audience, there's no way to set rules. However, as you can see, until you set rules, you're going to have folks really not fitting in, and turmoil and drama will result. We're at the beginning of the social media communities revolution, and jumping in to see if the water is fine is a good start, but as you note it's time to better define the parameters of the sea folks will be swimming in.

Also, Discord broke. Dunno why. I haven't been able to get in for weeks now. Maybe I'm banned? Never got any notice of any such thing. It just won't open anymore.

I have heard "communities" mentioned numerous times here on Steem. But in context of Steem, what does "communities" mean? Is it a feature set or something else? I have tried digging around to know about it but I can't seem to find anything...

#sbi-skip

PALnet is a kind of community that is on top of Steem. Stinc has been proposing making communities like PALnet possible, but @aggroed just made one instead of waiting. As far as I know, PALnet is the first Steem community, and reveals a glimpse of a new kind of society that is coming.

Stinc hasn't yet enabled communities, but Steem Engine and @aggroed have, and PALnet is the first one. Let's hope there are more soon.

Oh i thought it's more like a concrete feature set than the regular definition of community lol.
Thank you for the answer.

#sbi-skip

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment



What means doxxing @valued-customer?

Doxxing is revealing personally identifying information on someone, slang for releasing documents that reveal such information. Home addresses, phone numbers, SSN's, credit card numbers, and the like are all information that isn't safe to reveal on the internet, and doxxing is releasing that information on the internet.

While I hate people threatening people online...or telling them to kill themselves for that matter...I cannot support this drastic action.

Right at this moment people are raging against YouTube for censorship.

And here you are punishing someone for a violent outburst when you had no clear guidelines or rules... Even though it's kinda well known that such behavior isn't really acceptable, no one knew this was going to happen. You only released these guidelines after you punished someone...and publicly shamed them afterwards.

You still don't really have any guidelines released on
who's going to be judge, jury, and executioner. And you have no guidelines on how one appeals the decision, or when it lets up, if ever.

You are doing the exact same thing people are freaking out about YouTube and Twitter and Facebook doing.

Flagged 100%. And I hope more follow my example.

That's like going into a restaurant screaming and yelling at people, yelling obscenities , threatening to kill people, then when you get kicked out and arrested saying, "I didn't see a sign saying I COULDN'T do those things!"

People put in their valuable time, and a lot of us put in our money to invest in this place and make it awesome. I could give a shit about protecting someone's right to make death threats.

The blockchain was created so that everyone has the right to access, but when someone builds something on the blockchain, they have the right to protect what they've built. This is the lesson Steemit Inc. needs to learn.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

If people are making death threats on youtube and these other places you are speaking of I hope they are getting pulled down. That isn't what is happening on the internet right now. People are getting de-platformed which is totally different then a online threat. You are equating two different things.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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I would kill you

?

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

No, I am not. They are enforcing rules that did not exist when they were broken, with no recourse.

Ok, so maybe they should have been put up first. There is no re-course for online threats. There shouldn't be.

What people have a problem with on YouTube and Twitter and Facebook is that the rules are not clear, and there's no recourse.

Twitter & Youtube have policies on doxxing and death threats. This isn't anything new. No reason PAL shouldn't have the same system in place. These are just common sense things.

Twitter & Youtube big mistakes are de-platforming people based on believes, politically , or whatever it might be . That is way different . In other words, they aren't the same thing. One is well known to be policed, the other isn't right and is totally wrong to do people.

There shouldn't be any recourse for threats or violence. Is that what your saying?

Twitter & Youtube big mistakes are de-platforming people based on believes, politically , or whatever it might be .

That's an opinion...that may or may not be true. YouTube has been demonetizing for a long time based on unclear rules. People don't know why they got demonetized, and don't know what to do once they are. They can click a little button to have it reviewed...and sometimes it gets reversed...then demonetized again in some cases. Basically no one knows why. They don't know the rules.

The rules were also recently changed...and suddenly people saw their videos deleted, demonetized, and in some cases, their accounts banned. They were punished for rules that didn't exist when they broke them.

I don't oppose online communities making rules...but I do have a problem with blunders in the enforcement of them.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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Dear @geekpowered

What matters is that PALnet has chosen as their first step in enforcement to suddenly create rules and enforce them at the same instant. They will probably do the same thing in the future. This matters.

It's very hard to argue with you. This surely is raising some red flags, because it simply shows their mindset.

Yours
Piotr

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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Dear @geekpowered

Right at this moment people are raging against YouTube for censorship.

That's very true. However Steemit and all other front-ends build on STEEM blockchain share similar issue - those platforms are not censorship free. As a matter of fact, it's even easier to censor anyone here (all you need to do is to have account with huge STAKE).

You only released these guidelines after you punished someone...and publicly shamed them afterwards.

Ok, you're very right here. It surely could be played out better.

Personally I'm not sure if censorship is wrong or good thing. Part of me believes that us (humans) didn't grow up to enjoy "freedom" and live in censor-free world. Steemit proved over and over how bad it can be if people have some power.

Yours
Piotr

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Have some SHIT.

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Preface: I'm not a PAL team member.

I think you are looking at the censorship issue from the wrong lens. The muted user can still do whatever he or she likes on STEEM because STEEM is uncensorable. Once data is in the block, that's it.

But it's up to the condenser to choose what to display.

On top of that, PALnet is the creation of the PAL organization according to whatever whims or rules they want to follow. The PAL coins are ours to do with whatever we want. And the value of those coins are dependent on PALnet being a place people want to engage in.

You don't need a rule saying threatening people is not OK. There are several centuries of law from all over the world showing that to be as near a universal value as humans hold.

You do need a rule saying doxxing is not allowed because that is less universal.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

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  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

The same argument applies to Twitter and Facebook and others. Because they're private corporations, they can kinda do whatever they want in regard to censorship. Well, at least the laws are more lax. What holds them from doing whatever they like is the people. PAL can technically do this if they want...but I can also speak out against what they're doing and flag them for doing it with the little stake that I have.

They need to have clear guidelines in place before enforcement. That's how laws work.

They also need clear guidelines on what the enforcement will be for breaking what laws.

And I would prefer if they had a way for people to influence those guidelines.

They also need clear ways for people to appeal decisions.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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The case with twitter and facebook gets fuzzy because they are enjoying legal protections as platforms but then acting like publishers. Putting that bit aside, yes, they can do what they want with their platforms and the market will respond.

Just like you are responding to PAL. You can dump your coins and not use palnet. That will create a market signal.

And sure, it's understandable that you want clear guidelines in place, which is what they are doing with this post. I'm just saying in this particular case I think the mod team made the right decision.

I think having an appeals process is a good idea.

One thing that stuck with me from Joe Rogan's podcast with Jack Dorsey was the idea of kicking a ban decision over to a large set of random users (qualified in some way) to make a distributed decision. I think that's a great model if a super-majority was needed to initiate a mute or a ban and work that into an appeals process as well.

I think that jury of users would be one way to go...though how many and how it would be put forth would be a huge influence. I think random users might actually be more strict than those in power in many cases though.

I'm not as radical as many on here. I am not necessarily against a platform having it's own rules. I don't like them just coming out of nowhere with them. No one knew this was going to happen. This sets a dangerous precedent. What rules will they have in the future? Will they give a warning then? Or will it be another case of just deciding that someone went too far? It worries me.

I don't know if I should dump my PAL. I don't know if I should start removing my "stake". I think by the time I do know it might be too late.

I fully support this!

Have some SHIT.

Thank you kindly!

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

That's really a good action: thanks for stopping violence so effectively!
Much love and compassion!

Resteemed with joy!

A huge hug 🤗
from @amico!

Have some SHIT.

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Sorry @abusereports yet I felt it was necessary to educate @valuedcustomer as his comment and subsequent statements were uninformed.

Do what you deem appropriate, I have no control over yours or, anyone else's actions for that matter.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

I understand that we have different visions and I respect your ideas.

I love Marshall Rosenberg and I follow his simple principles of non-violent communication: my experience is that it changes your world!

A warm hug
@amico

I am not a fan of violence myself. However, the points I made aren't about being violent. Either the speech undertaken wasn't actual violence, or it was. If it was, muting the speaker afterwards didn't prevent violence, which had already occurred. However, speech isn't violence, it's communication. Since speech can't be violence, muting the speaker can't prevent violence.

Either way, no violence was prevented. I am a fan of factual reality, and prefer it non-violently. That's why no harm came to anyone or anything in the making of this comment. All my comments have that feature.

All comments do.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

I will neither upvote or downvote this comment yet I do find it necessary to respond. I am not familiar with International Law, but in the United States threatening life or limb is considered a terrorist threat. I quote Article 18 of the U.S. Code:

18 U.S.C. § 2332b(c)(1)(g) makes it a class C felony, punishable by 10 years imprisonment, for someone to willfully threaten to commit a crime that will result in death or great bodily harm; the threat is made with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat; the threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and immediate prospect of execution; the threat actually causes fear in the victim; and the fear is reasonable.


Sorry dude, in @themarkymark's and my Nation, it is the Law of The Land.

A threat of violence is not violence. It doesn't matter if it's against the law. Everything that is illegal isn't violence. My contention in this conversation is finite. I pointed out that no violence was prevented by muting. That was the limit of my claim.

Here's the relevant portion of my last response to @amico:

"Either the speech undertaken wasn't actual violence, or it was. If it was, muting the speaker afterwards didn't prevent violence, which had already occurred. However, speech isn't violence, it's communication. Since speech can't be violence, muting the speaker can't prevent violence."

"Either way, no violence was prevented. I am a fan of factual reality, and prefer it non-violently. That's why no harm came to anyone or anything in the making of this comment. All my comments have that feature."

"All comments do."

You do not respond to my claim. You have changed the subject. You're apparently claiming, if you're responding to what I actually said, that if something is illegal it is violence - or you're not responding to what I did say at all.

Do read what I said. Either respond, or state outright that you are going to change the subject, because that's what you did.

Please reconsider your comment.

It is good to see actions being taken, I hope this policy will apply to all post and all posters. We do not need to see a repeat of incidents on steemit carried over to here. I hope some of the other front end producers take note of your actions and understand that sometimes tolerance can only go so far.

Have some SHIT.

Dear @nopal4u

It's not my first time when I'm witnessing some issues related to this particular user. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make.

Cheers
Piotr

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Have some SHIT.

Congratulations @nopal4u! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You published your First Post
You got a First Vote
You received more than 10 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 50 upvotes.

You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!

Have some SHIT.

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Have some SHIT.

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Have some SHIT.

I completely agree with you, dear @chesatochi! ;)

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Have some SHIT.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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Have some SHIT.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

Have some SHIT.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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Have some SHIT.

  ·  5 years ago Reveal Comment

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Have some SHIT.