So they have the time and motivation to create laws like these but they won't create a law for a tax moratorium? There may be terrorists who use cryptocurrency but the majority of users will not be terrorists. What about the majority of users who want to use cryptocurrency for legitimate purposes?
Even if people believe these laws are a good idea as a means of combating terrorist finance it does not reveal how a practical implementation of this idea will work. How exactly can it be determined how much or how little or if anyone has digital currency? This would be as difficult as scrutinizing gamers who travel with their laptop to determine if their WoW items or Second Life characters tradeable for monetary value. In a sense, digital currency is just a tool of barter and barter has existed all along in various forms, whether it be MP3s, or URLs, or JPGs, or AVI, or cryptocurrency.
What this law will do is have an effect on individuals entering the US and it isn't clear if this applies to US citizens as well. Anyone entering the US who happens to hold a lot of cryptocurrency will be required to make it known, but what happens to the known crypto-rich who enter the US? How is this information intended to be used? Maybe we still have a long way to go before cryptocurrency is formally accepted by governments because right now the policies indicate the opposite.
Isis has been financing their war with oil. Uncle Sam better confiscate your gas-guzzlers for acts of terror.
It's only law makers that can come up with such bullcrap.
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And some more less relevant ones
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Haha! It's Monopoly money. Sure weapons of mass destruction.
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If two people can form a contract by word of mouth then that alone can facilitate value transfer. This is not easy to stop and even if they did inspections it is doubtful in my uninformed opinion that terrorists wise enough to use cryptocurrency would just leave it all on their laptop for border control to inspect. I mean maybe some teenager hackactivists would do something like that but is there any evidence that terrorists have been caught at the border with cryptocurrency? I suppose if someone can find an incident like that then my opinion on this matter can change.
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Read George Orwell and you will find the blueprint for where we'll end. It's scary stuff.
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1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
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More like a blueprint of where we already are...
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The USA gets so much more invasive with each passing day.
What would stop someone from "giving," their entire stake away to someone prior to arriving, and once home, that person decides to give it back? Just an example.
These kinds of laws are not only stupid, they're disgusting and disheartening.
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This. I used to love travelling to the US. Now, with the full body scanners (which I make a point of opting out from every single time) and the police state ambiance at the airport, it really feels like I arrived in Gattaca. Pretty chilling.
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Very true. I've traveled to many countries and I can honestly say that my home country, the USA, is the LEAST free feeling country I've ever been to. I do not feel more "ruled over," anywhere else in the world . . . It's a hard/sad thing to say, but it's true.
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It's even more complicated with smart contracts, deadman switches, and other stuff. It's not really possible to determine how much anyone will have in the future and there is a technique called time lock encryption where a person can send their stash to themselves in the future and the transaction can occur in such a way that they can be inspected.
The problem with these sorts of laws is they just seem to want to throw digital currency in with a bunch of other stuff as if it's the same or similar. It's programmable, it's not similar to anything else, and in my opinion if it's going to be regulated then they have to do it in it's own lane. Honestly I don't see this particular regulation doing anything except cause the actual terrorists to use smart contracts with their digital currency and cover up their tracks.
People who truly aren't terrorists will follow the law and be inconvenienced.
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Yep. So many loopholes are out there. Nothing pisses me off more than government trying to get bigger and more controlling. GTFO of people's lives for god's sake.
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Nothing says "freedom" quite like government regulations.
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I do not see how this could ever be enforced. What would they do confiscate your devices and thumb drives and search for crypto. Seems like a stretch.
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Wouldn't be realistic if they did that to everybody. The point is that it gives them one more tool to create pressure and legal trouble for anyone whom they may decide is a trouble maker of sorts.
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They'd do exactly that. There's already cases of them doing that without the electronic devices being related to cryptocurrency: https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkannavar-detained-cbp-phone-search-trump-travel-ban
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Governments hate the idea of the general public making anything more than 1 percent on their capital. Seeing many of these crypto currency are so fruitful, this may signal the end of coventional financial institutions and governments hate that.
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What would happen if 20 million Americans decided not to comply?? Or 35 million?? Last I checked these people are supposed to work for us..
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Remember the hall monitor in school? Or, that kid that always reminded the teacher that homework hadn't been collected? 20-35 million Americans would ratted out to the authorities, increasing the number of Americans in jail, and continuing to feed the prison-industrial complex that only exists to maintain slavery in America.
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Good luck enforcing it.
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Exactly!
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And that is my point. If it cannot be realistically enforced then it's just a massive inconvenience. They should show a measurable benefit statistically. Are terrorists routinely caught at the borders with digital currencies on mechanical devices? I'm not exactly sure what statistics or data is used to inform the creation of this policy but even if terrorists are crossing the border with Trezors, well if you inspect them wouldn't they simply use brain wallets?
I cannot figure out how they'll inspect someone's brain and at what point does the cost of attempting to do so outweigh the benefit? In the case of a known terrorist crossing the border I can see the point but those cases shouldn't be every single person crossing the border otherwise it becomes a hassle if cryptocurrency ever becomes massively adopted.
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Really it's just another chance for them to spend someone else's money.
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One more route for the government to suck away tax payer money.
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People use US dollars for terrorism, but just because they do, doesn't mean the dollar is bad.
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Like I said, anything can be used for barter. There is nothing particularly special about cryptocurrency except that it's easier to do accounting and hard to counterfeit, but the same could happen and has happened without cryptocurrency. The point here is there may be legit concerns about terrorist finance but the vast majority of cryptocurrency users aren't interested in terrorism and have nothing to do with that.
So these "tough" laws don't seem like they'll be any more effective for deterring terrorism than the situation at airports. The vast majority of innocent people get inconvenienced yet there hasn't been any statistics released to indicate a measurable effect on public safety. If we are going to be inconvenienced then they owe it to us to make sure it's an effective policy and I'm not sure how they intend to measure the effectiveness of this policy.
Also the physical border being an inspection point doesn't make a lot of sense when digital currency isn't physically detectable. I mean how exactly is it supposed to work? What if the terrorists are using brain wallets and ordinary users are carrying Nano or Trezors?
Reference
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This would be a way for them to target people, confiscate devices, and increase spending. This is the kind of law making that makes me glad to be a libertarian. This isn't designed to stop criminals, who could always leave their devices outside the country. This is designed to stop the Average Joe from exercising the right to free movement.
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Wow. What an absolute scam. Typical of government though.
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Control control control....someday we will all be so sick of their control and will figure out how to put an end to their devious ways. Someday....
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Stop voting them in. Stop using their Federal Reserve notes. Create your own currency. Print your own products...etc..
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That sounds amazing, but how can that even be done? For example the creator of ArtMoney almost went to jail for creating art that is supposed to be used as currency.... http://artmoney.org/
What do you mean by print your own products? currency? I love this idea :)
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3d print houses, cars, toys, food; the basics. There are many platforms that allow individuals to create their own currency. The only power these people have is the power you give them. Non- participation by the masses will lead to their demise...
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Stop voting is easy. It's actually much easier than voting. Once you have skipped voting, decide that government bureaucrats are not legimate, and stop thinking about them entirely. Ignore their gesticulations. Refuse to get angry at their nonsense. Stop watching TV and reading news papers. Act bored to death when anyone around you speaks about anything related ot the government. If we all do that, their power will be entirely gone. Power only exists because we care. It only exists because we believe it does, and that some people are its legitimate recipient. Once no one cares anymore about that bunch of old farts in Washington, they'll just get another job.
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I am looking forward to that day.
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WHATS A "CRYPTOCURRENCY" sir?
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The only terrorists are the government. They use the threat of money laundering, which they are probably engaged in, to terrorize the People into giving up more rights. Terrorists, all of them, every single person, who works for the government, should be live streaming their activities 24 hours a day.
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If they question me about my crypto holdings, I will burst into tears... "I did buy too little, too late, sir!"
Then we both cry together.
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The crypto market is still teeny tiny compared to fiat currencies, and reserve currencies specifically. Once we hit a couple of trillion $$ in market cap, that's when they'll start getting scared. But by then, it'll be too late
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This is a toothless law - they won't have a way to enforce it.
if my bitcoins are on a cold stored wallet or on a paper wallet - they would not be able to detect it
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Gives me an idea, next time I'm coming to the US, I should bring a stack of thousands of printed paper wallets of many different cryptocurrencies with only dust in all of them and declare that I'm holding crypto assets. Just in case they ask how much, I should have some crazy big sounding (albeit actually worthless) ones, like "1 million i0Coin". The dudes will have to spend hours figuring how to check the wallets and scanning everything only to find that I was only holding a grand total of 10 bucks worth of crypto :).
If we all do that, they'll quickly give up trying to figure.
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The Samourai wallet doesn't show up on your smart phone (unless The Man looks in the Play Store history of device... fix that Samourai!) but you get the idea.... governments are going to have to do a top-to-bottom reconceptualization of what 'taxes' are in coming years. Cryptocurrency will make this necessary. I'm hoping that after the crash following the criminal mismanagement--based on the idea that politicians and their toadies are smart enough to command-control interlocking economies--that taxation will become voluntary. That means damn few world destroying offensive weapons, black site torture facilities, govt sponsored drug ops, and never ending 'wars' on other nations, plants, and nouns. That shit requires debt based bullshit money.
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I agree with previous poster. How would they enforce such a thing. Ownership of digital currency would be hard to prove from the standpoint of name.
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Well, I wonder? Does this not indicate the opposite? That the crypto is an effective alternative? Don't they admit this with their willingness to try and restrict it with laws?
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This makes no sense. I'm not sure there is a way to determine how much cryptocurrency one person has. It seems more like a way for the US (and the banks that own the politicians) to discourage citizens from getting involved in cryptocurrency.
And if the US really wanted to stop terrorist funding they would do something about Saudi Arabia.
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They did do something about Saudi Arabia.
Photo Credit
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Then wouldn't it be that everyone entering the US would have to declare any form of money, assets over 10k that they have?
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can't see how they could even know such a thing ? daft idea
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I don't see how they could ever enforce this?
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fuck this shit, all politicians need shooting
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Heck this is crazy lol. Trying to get their hands on everything.
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This is growing so fast my head is spinning!
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How will this stop terrorist funding? They get their cash delivered on pallets on CIA airplanes and through the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia among other avenues ie. labor tax to fund the war machine for the enrichment of the military industrial complex, banks and the fed. :/ This is nothing more than an attempt to turn otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals and targets.
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wow so just send your coins to a wallet of a friend inside the country! or just DONT report theem because HOW WOULD THEY EVER KNOW!
haha news like this makes me mad! FIRSTthey claied crypto currency and bitcoin WASNT REAL MONEY and you couldnt use it to pay a debt!
NOW they wanna make us pay TAXES on something they told us woul NEVER be accepted as reall money?
CANT HAVEIT BOTH WAYS! If you make us pay taxes on bitcoin then we should be able to use bitcoin to pay our bills and force people to accept it as payment lik cash! Oh, whats that federal government?You dont wanna do that ? its not real money? Oh ok then we wont bepaying any taxes on our "fake mony thats not real"
thiis is one of the big points i like to make with people who ay u have to pay taxes on bitcoin all fo teh sudeen
these are same peopl who never believd in bitcoina nd claimed it was a scam or poni scheme
by annoouncing that we ahve to pay taxes on bitcoin is AMITTING an CONFIRMING that you recognize it as legal tender! wo WTF ts SO mesed up its like PROOF that the evil federal governments oof the world will just go around and take whatever they want!
We fucking make our own p2p ecebtralied mooney system and now they want us to pay taxes on is? even when they fuckin arrest people for running an illegal "money transmission business" and claim the bitcoin creation is "counterfeiiiting" oh ok so is biitcoin real money or ot ? the elites are always going to try to take any money we make. they are theives, none of us should ever be reporting or paying ANY taxes n ANy crypto even if we are casing it out all the timee an taking profits! its not capital gains! there ARE NO LAWS on the boosk about it! so wy would u pay an taxes itslie here come take my money
we have a chance for MASSIVE civil disobediance! we should lobby for crypto currency to be EXEMPT from ALL taxes because look drug delers will always use crypto currency with mixers and tht makes it so the IRS couldd NEER auddit all these bitcoin users and what do u think daarknet drug dealers worry about not paying the IRS? hahaha
USDT tether will allow all of us to get around regulations!
anyway sorry i went off topic! i am going crazy ons teemit! this subject makes me mad
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How exactly could be enforced?
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