Crypto hinders science?

steevc (73) in cryptocurrency • 7 years ago (edited)

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7 years ago by steevc (73)

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themobilewriter (48) · 7 years ago

I would kinda like to both agree and disagree with the article. I agree with the part that GPU shortage is hindering the growth of science and i also agree with the part that so much energy is getting consumed in doing so.
But GPU's are no longer used for mining Bitcoin. Asics are used for that purpose. Thus GPU shortage is not because of Bitcoin but altcoins. Mining is just one of the reason why there is a shortage of GPU's. Another reason is shortage of VRAM. There is a shortage of VRAM & RAM because of smartphones. There is so much demand for smartphones these days that companies are finding it lucrative to make chips for smartphone instead of Graphics cards and Computer RAMS. When the demand for smartphone decreases then we can expect prices to stabilize.

If mining is waste of energy then so is gaming ( yes i am a gamer too). Apart from entertainment factor games offer nothing in return. I really did not wanted to add this here since i am a hard core gamer, but i thought it will be honest to tell that playing games is waste of energy. Still it doesnot comsume as much energy as mining consumes.

Another reason for GPU shortage are Hoarders and black market sellers. Many are hoarding GPU's in order to sell some at higher prices until the mining crashes. Companies themselves are also responsible for this. They are selling directly to miners who buy in bulk. This is how Cloud mining companies are able to procure graphics card even if there is a shortage in market.

Bitmain is the main manufacture of ASIC's. This company has monopoly over it. This is also one company who do spends less on R&D. They can reduce power consumption of mining machines if they wanted to, but they don't do that because this would slow down their mass production and reduce their profits.

I am a advocate of green energy. I believe miners should make use of clean energy or stop mining. If their mining machine consumes 1 KWHR power then they should install a solar system of one kilowatt.

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1 vote

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

I know it's not down to Bitcoin, but alts are having enough effect on the market. I'm not blaming gamers either as I see that as a reasonable use and they won't be doing it 24/7 (well most of them won't). I'm sure people are profiting from the demand as people will pay for the right hardware. I wonder how long a GPU is useful for mining before you need to next generation. I expect miners have a high turnover of hardware, be it ASICs or GPUs. It's all wasteful. The only reason mining is hard is to control who gets the rewards. It's not strictly necessary to run a blockchain. The Steem method is much better. The community decide on which witnesses get the rewards and all they need is a fairly powerful PC that won't be consuming that much power.

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fede93g (57) · 7 years ago

Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake have both their positive and negative aspects. I won't go into details, but I suggest you to watch this video from Jackson Palmer (creator of Dogecoin, among other things) about PoW and PoS.
However, saying that Proof-Of-Work is wasteful is a terrible mistake. Of course, miners should look for alternative sources of electricity, switch to green energy and, maybe, move to countries where there is a surplus of electricity. Moreover, mining equipment producers should work on more efficient ASICs.

However, I do not think PoS will replace PoW since it means Bitcoin should be replaced.

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

Why shouldn't bitcoin be replaced? Just because it was there first does not mean it is good forever

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fede93g (57) · 7 years ago

The greatest deveolpers are working on it, I do not think they will easily switch to another coin. I may be wrong, of course. Let's what happens!

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lapingvino (6) · 7 years ago

at some point almost everybody will have switched, and the talk you take for wisdom is preaching to a sectarian choir. I'm curious if that's not already happening.

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fede93g (57) · 7 years ago

I'm curious if that's not already happening.

So, where are the devs going now?

What I have been seeing is people working hard to solve Bitcoin problems. Despite the forks, despite all the coins that claim to be the next bitcoin, the real Bitcoin is still here. This is not a sectarian choir, as you said. It is something you can easily see by yourself.

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

I expect plenty of Bitcoin developers have moved on to set up other coins when they see better technology options. Bitcoin is brilliant technology, but I wonder if the founders foresaw the impact it would have in resources before it's even become an everyday thing for most people. It just cannot carry on as it is now.

I should mention that the article is not about Bitcoin as that is not viable on GPUs and uses dedicated hardware. That still needs replacing regularly.

At the very least we should be harvesting heat from mining rigs to warm homes or generate power.

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

If crypto coins fail, it will not be due to the cost of creation.
Failure will be due to us the user of the currency not creating any back up for the coin. By back up I mean, All other industry can use bitcoin or other crypto, But not all accept it. as a community we need to find ways to get crypto used in more ways, be it Bitcoin or another.

The idea of the crypto was to negate the control of finance over individuals or groups. This also needs to happen in other area's of daily life too.

While everyone seems willing to invest in the possibility of gaining profits from the Crypto market, it seems none are inclined to put any investment from their gains, to help others out from the control of those who only care for themselves.

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2 votes

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

I think crypto is even more wasteful if it's just used as an investment and not to some real issues. People are not spending it as they are all holding in hope of future profits. I hope Steem can be different

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

I am here to try change that. I have a long haul with a heavy load to get there, and Lord know's how many toll's to pass. Presently I have only discussed in any manner with @Steemgoblin

My views there are seen some interest. But need a lot of organising. I have different views on profits, I believe rewards should be there and not all rewards go to one place. Opportunity now available now to make changes on many platforms, not just within the financial system.

Cryptos are mostly assets due to the availability to use them. This is where I think investing with the crypto outside of the digital will play an important part of the success story of the currencies.
With our investments outside of the digital we can receive payment with Digital currency, (if this was done from Steemit, we would obviously accept Steem coins as 1st option, initally as the only option).

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2 votes

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xabi (71) · 7 years ago

Is it justifiable to burn energy for crypto mining???

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1 vote

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

It depends where the energy comes from? Tho the article above was more about processors then the energy

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2 votes

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xabi (71) · 7 years ago (edited)

Ohhh, I see....
And how much electricity in the world comes from renewable sources???
And thanks for letting me know that the post is about how the crypto mining is affecting scientists, engineers and professional film makers...
So sorry If I commited a reprehensible crime by asking about the energy...😡😡😡

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1 vote

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

It's no crime as I did mention energy too. We need to be cutting energy use so that we can live without fossil fuel.

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

Not as much energy as we could be getting. How much renewable energy do you rely on? Do you have plans to always rely on the source that is providing energy to you now?

As for justify, well to justify something implies that something is wrong, and a reason to justify action must be articulated. I put it, that we are not using more renewable energies is what needs justification. While in other areas, the cost of producing energy is already not viable.

No one mentioned a crime, that is your own response to something said in reply to a comment you made. Whatever you feel guilty for please do not try to push that guilt to me.

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xabi (71) · 7 years ago (edited)

Thanks @steevc
I mean no offense @brayias. I was just concerned about the energy consumption...
I was just trying to have a serious conversation...
My comment/concern was not irrelevant....So if you don't like the conversation you can chose to stay out of it. No body forced your hands..
But I am sure I can live with the guilt of down voting the comments that try to distract serious discussion...

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

Energy consumption is something I am concerned with.
And I did not dismiss your opinion of energy.

The possibility you misread the article is not beyond belief
You mentioned Justification of energy, all I did was suggest the article was orientated toward the processors, You took offence to that and created an issue where there was none.
Now you want to start a flagging war. Are you trying to be a dictator, where no one else can say anything to anything you post or there will be red flagged?

You asked a question, of one line no pretence or after content.
The question was given an answer. To make an issue from that and start to threaten others over it is a joke.
You came back at me with aggression and disregard for a simple reply to your comment.

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xabi (71) · 7 years ago

Thanks for explaining...and lets stop arguing about who did what....Lets show some respect for our host @steevc..
PS
I do apologize if I did hurt you, that wasn't my intention...
Lets put this misunderstanding behind us....

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

My post mentioned energy too, so his comment was valid. Scaling up renewables has a cost and we need to cut down on coal and other dirty power. It's better if we can just use less energy, but crypto is consuming a significant amount of resources. Mind you, so does the internet, but that is useful too. You can have crypto without intensive mining as Steem proves and I think we should always look for sustainable solutions.

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brayias (39) · 7 years ago

yes, and I never said his comment was not valid.
The justification for making any energy source should be in the costs of producing it to the output you get and cost to the consumer.
I believe it is possible to reduce all those costs. When examining the costs of this taken into account should also be environment impact be it on pollutants or destruction of environment wildlife.

Your topic touches on much more then just the science and the power usage, and leads down many roads of of communication with many side-roads off.

Choosing which road to travel first, Takes agreement. We can only hope comes before it is too late.