Former bad boy Bitcoin evangelist Richard Heart, now turned shitcoin creator, swore up and down for months that Wall Street was coming in the form of futures contracts, and that when they do... Bitcoin is going to explode!
Well, you see... they didn't.
As a matter of fact, the futures were a big fat dud, and not only did they see abysmal volume, but the price of Bitcoin actually started going down in a major way once they were introduced.
So you know what they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
With that being said, I would like to ask you all, the community, on what your thoughts are on a Bitcoin ETF in general, and whether or not you believe it will actually help the price of Bitcoin going forward... assuming of course it's ever approved?
Just in case, below I will provide you with the definition of what an exchange-traded fund is exactly:
ETF stands for exchange-traded fund, and is an investment fund that tracks an index, specific asset or basket of assets. Many aspects of the market are covered by ETFs. First introduced in 1989, ETFs are similar to index funds, but unlike index funds, ETFs can be bought and sold throughout the day on the stock exchange. They have low management fees, sometimes as low as 0.04%.
Definition provided by: Investopedia
I'm doing this because I believe one persons opinion on a certain topic is irrelevant, and that a collaboration of opinions will grant us with a much better average of answers to use, in order to better calibrate our own ideas, beliefs, and opinions.
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I doubt if that would help. I think more and more companies should support trades in BTC which will help grow the price of cryptos.
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What do you mean more companies should trade in Bitcoin, like accept it as payment?
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Yes, that will help. May be Amazon should start accepting BTC.
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That would be nice, and this whole "it's too volatile" bullshit needs to stop, because they could easily convert it to fiat as soon as they get it, so this shouldn't be an issue.
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Exactly.
Just wondering if you do curation ? I see you follow a very limited number of people here on Steemit.
I know you shower a lot of love already but curation is a good way of showering love to the community. I agree it takes up enough time though.
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I enjoy a very specific genre, but when I do find an author I like, I do show some love to them, but most of them boys have whale friends, so they don't need me... I tend to stay inside my own little community.
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You are a whale for me. lol
I have communicated with many whales, followed many but hardly anyone turns up on my posts. Is it normal or the number of users has increased exponentially. Feeling disappointed past few days.
Its the same set of people up-voting my posts. No new additions.
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Yes i think that it will increase the price of Bitcoin from very simple reason , bitcoin is still new to a lot of people when ever there is something like ETF inviolate more and more people are hearing about bitcoin and new people are buying some which will make to increase in the price
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So you're saying that ETFs will make owning Bitcoin easier for the common folk, which should drive the price up?
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Yes , every mention of bitcoin good or bad just expose it to more and more people you need to remember that many people still do not know what it is and that why they would like to try it mean that they will buy even in higher price just to try and that will make the price to increase
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I guess you're saying that an exchange-traded fund would make it easier for people to own Bitcoin correct?
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Yes sr. :)
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Bitcoin futures are pure derivative trades that are settled in cash. Even if a billion USD are traded on these futures, theoretically, not a single dime of actual Bitcoin has to be traded.
Similarly, as we have seen already, not a single bitcoin backed ETF has been approved by the SEC.
To me this is an indication that a crypto ETF based on futures, or based on some other derivative concoction, and not the actual coins, is more likely what’s coming.
Yeah, from a PR standpoint it may help. But the approved ETF, just like the approved futures are essentially just paper trades and no real bitcoin will be required.
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I got a question, if Bitcoin value is represented in an ETF, doesn't that mean the Bitcoin has to be out of the system and representing the ETF it is in in some way? Which means cold storage, or in a wallet representing the ETF correct?
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Not necessarily. What if the ETF is based on futures, or on some derivative monster which itself is created based on futures alone?
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Hmm, I'm not sure, and I don't really understand them enough to answer that question mate.
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The commentary out there right now is that blockchain is the more viable option while bitcoin may not have as many legs in terms of viability; but bitcoin could be the Friendster
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That's the banksters making those claims, saying blockchain is good, Bitcoin is bad... they've been sticking to this narrative for awhile now trying to get the masses on board with their beliefs.
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Exactly! Though the current overall market has been in a downtrend for sure. However, this downtrend is a natural cycle of any market, especially one that say parabolic growth like we saw in Sept Dec.. The markets always rise and fall
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Corrections are definitely healthy, especially in a market that seems to drift away from reality a lot.
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Absolutely.. i have an opinion that the cryptocurrencies will have much more use cases and that it will increase the demand, propelling prices higher.
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The fact that people are using it to purchase expensive houses and cars is a very good start, because it gives it credibility in the real world.
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Exactly.. Nice explanation
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There is nothing wrong with having different currencies for large purchases such as real estate (BTC) and for small purchases (LTC or XLM). In fact there is nothing wrong with having different currencies for different types of purchases, such as services versus product, entertainment etc.
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i do not think it's will have any affect on BTC price maybe the price now is a bit low but in the long term it's will not have any affect
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I see, so the same thing that happened with the introduction of futures, will just happen again... a whole lotta nothing?
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Personally i'm holding 15 different coins for long term as i thing they will all be worst much more in few year from now
Sure the price will go up and down but i'm looking on long term for 5 year from now
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Yes, I'm like you, and are in this for the long-haul.
Cryptocurrency collecting is a hobby for me, so although price decreases hurt me like they hurt everyone else, I tend to see them as discount opportunities to help add more coins and tokens to my collection.
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I am certainly biased. I have a very negative opinion of wall street and the entire stock and commodity space players. Everything is gamed and manipulated.
My initial reaction was that futures will destroy bitcoin. Maybe I was too pessimistic, but it just so happened that the opening of bitcoin future trading coincided with the beginning of the biggest crypto decline from which none have yet recovered.
If wall street et.al. is involved in pricing action no good things come of it.
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Wall Street is never good for anything, because they don't care about anything else but gains, and what is in it for them. If they feel shorting it will make them better money, they will manipulate it downwards... as we saw with futures.
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The exchange-traded fund industry, which is primarily based on indexing, is essentially an AI business so it stands to reason that the next step forward will be robot-run asset management
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Hey, I like the sound of that, it sounds very promising indeed.
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SEC exists to protect Wall Street’s money-making rackets. Wall street does not control the crypto space, as they control stocks, bonds and commodities. So they don’t particularly like the entire cryp[to space and have no real incentive to see it grow.
If they find ways to construct derivatives, get those traded, such as with bitcoin futures, then they would be able to control the ETFs based on derivatives.
AI trading or not, no real asset backing is allowed. SEC already showed its hand.
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Ain't this the truth, and you don't think the SEC will ever let Bitcoin play with the big boys for real?
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I don’t think they will, unless Wall Street finds a way to control the action in it.
It seems Goldman is taking a stab at it with the Poloniex purchase. They will attempt to make that a complex exchange of all types of assets, and of course, they will have SEC’s blessing.
They may be able to control the action more from that angle.
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Ha ha, they always get the SEC's blessing, they basically own them.
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I don't think it will help Bitcoin in the long run, I think it could make a boost only in the short run and then Bitcoin keeps his own course.
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Do you think having Bitcoin tied in with some of the more popular ETFs won't help it at all going forward, maybe via the popular Spider Fund or something?
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Yes I do think it will help btc but not that much, at least on the long run.. I think we'll see a boost witch is great but then it will take it's normal course.. But i could be wrong, it's just my opinion..
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Hey, that's what we are here for, a collection of opinions may show us the way.
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I believe an ETF would result in an upswing as retail ETFS tend to attract longer term investors, on the contrary futures contracts are utilized by Hedge fuds/traders more so as a trading asset than a long-term investment. I think a lot of retail stock investors want exposure to BTC/crypto but don't want to deal with the headaches of purchasing and storing crypto, an ETF would eliminate these problems.
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That's the best argument I've been hearing in defense of ETFs, and I must say... the argument does make a lot of sense.
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The ETFs would help if they were allowed to peg to actual BTC. SEC seems totally opposed to that but may allow them to be based on futures. Therefore ETFs would not eliminate any problems.
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Sooner or later we will for sure see many a companies investing via crypto currency because crypto is the future. Moreover it will be good for steemians because ultimately it will help us to grow.
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Growth is key, especially here on Steemit. The more great minds we have on this platform contributing, the more interest it will create, and the bigger it will grow for the better!
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Yeah for sure it is only if we grow than only can we dwell. The more we grow the more it will attract people and better it will be for us. Otherwise it won't be soon when we all the hype lost.
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Hey Tolkatore,
I wrote a couple of weeks ago about Bitcoin ETFs. With regards to the futures contracts, I think it is a little different. Before futures, there was no real way to short bitcoin, so the price was inflated because all you could do is buy.
Now I am surprised that the volume traded of Bitcoin futures is so low! However they are not accessible to the average investor who has a trading account. A bitcoin ETF should be accessible to any Joe blow with a brokerage account. This will allow them to get exposure to Bitcoin without having to go through the faff of registering on exchanges, understanding wallets etc.
I think it will help a lot but the SEC is really dragging their feet on it.
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And you know why don't you?
Because all them fucks in the SEC are controlled by fat cat banksters... that's why!
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Well yes and as we all know, BANKS HATE CRYPTO!
They hate that they have to invest money to keep up with this new technology, they would love to just keep using outdated tech and charging high fees on them.
Anyway tolkatore I wanted to ask, you're probably the most generous author I've encountered here, which is why I like to support you. I noticed a lot of people comment on your posts but don't upvote the story. It seems to me a little unfair to not at least support the author, so I always like to upvote your blogs when I want to comment on it.
Have you ever used bots? I see you're growing at a pretty healthy rate in terms of followers/rep so I guess you don't need them. I'd be interested to know your view on bots. I have experimented with them and generally got a higher ROI on my posts by making the investment. They have helped me to at least cut through some of the sheer spam/plagiarised/scam posts that goes through the "new" section of any channel to try and reach an audience.
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This is exactly why they fucking hate it, plus, cryptocurrencies put the power back into the hands of the people, where essentially they wouldn't need a bank if or when adoption gets big enough.
As for bots: https://steemit.com/steemit/@tolkatore/up-vote-bots-will-be-the-death-of-steemit-and-here-s-a-great-example-of-why-i-believe-it-to-be-so
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I don't think so but i may be wrong too at the same time.
Bitcoin futures did not do any good to the price of bitcoin other than causing it to crash down. People who actually say that "the price of bitcoin will explode after this/that" are actually opportunistic people who will sell their bitcoin when it rises through this kind of rumors and buy back when it crashes after people realize that they lost their money.
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Ha ha, you pretty much just described Richard Heart.
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the more BTC gets traded the more it will go up in value. so yea :D
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Makes sense to me, and I tried Nova Blitz out bud... not a bad game at all.
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good :P keep at it it will only get better :)
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Just played a bunch of games, and kicked some major ass!
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I agree with you completely here. We can't trust a single man's opinion. Even bill gates had some shit to say about bitcoin
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Fuck Bill, and his little buddy Warren too!
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Lol .. you're right
They suck
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Bitcoin ETFs would open up a whole new can of worms when it comes to investing and holding Bitcoin, welcoming in those who are still highly skeptical and cautious about the volatile digital asset.
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I think it being a gateway into Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is its biggest allure, so I hope it does move the needle in a positive direction if they ever do get released.
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Yes contracts worthless when in the foresight we were expecting in the 5000, but the attendee Raynaa in 6000 to the referral is no longer useful professional traders Khosso Nemi to improve the situation
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As evident, the crypto market is increasing rapidly ,more & mire holders are growing theirs at a huge rate... Among all the cryptocurrencies,BTC seems to be fit at top rating and better future.. hope to see its better value in upcoming months
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Well,thats the best update@tolkatore ....thankyou for sharing the info regarding ETF with the users and its impact on Bitcoin value...
This is perhaps the most valuable info...""ETFs can be bought and sold throughout the day on the stock exchange. They have low management fees, sometimes as low as 0.04%". Kindly keep us updated in future too regarding bitcoin and ETF
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Keep this up, Followed you for more :)
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@talkatore
It seems mortgage backed securities. remember what happened to them in 2008-2009.
Making money out of nothing is truly genious idea but b careful
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So u mean bitcoin dont have any value or its bubble?
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Bitcoin, for example has a maximum of 21 million whole units, divisible 100 million times. With over 7 billion people on the planet, if even 1 billion were to adopt Bitcoin, 21 million whole units would not spread very far without a significant price tag
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Agreed! As long as it does not get replaced by a new/superior crypto.
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Clearly, this type of investment vehicle is designed to make the cushy lives of investors even cushier. This alone, along with its familiarity for these investors, makes Bitcoin far more attractive and a lot less risky.
This has been actively seen with just the news of Bitcoin futures being announced. When CME announced it would offer futures on Bitcoin in the future, the currency shot to over $12000 as Wall Streeters and other investors alike liked their lips at the chance to trade a futuristic commodity in a familiar way.
Now, with that paradigm being shattered, and the CME taking the plunge, there is bound to be a dam wall break when it comes to other futures, as well as ETFs.
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The assumption is that the trading of bitcoin futures will bring the next logical move: bitcoin exchange-traded funds, which will bring more attention to ETFs and further push legitimization of bitcoin. These are technically listed as exchange-traded products, since they would only be trading a single commodity, in this case bitcoins.
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This is not Bitcoin trading, this is Bitcoin Futures settled in USD, betting on future price of Bitcoin. Another poker table in the casino, methinks.
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its a best way in investment fund for vehicles in market. Its a very good news if bitcoin price goes up. I hope ETF good impact on bitcoin prices..
thankyou for the info and update @tolkatore
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