A couple of weeks ago, Deanne Carson, co-founder of Body Safty Australia, ignited an internet dumpster fire. She accomplished this merely by suggesting in an interview on ABC News that parents should practice seeking consent from their children, even when they're changing diapers. Unfortunately, most people only read the sensational headlines and saw her pink hair in video thumbnails before lashing out with rage and disgust. Just another crazy lefty, right?
Well, I watched the interview myself and frankly, couldn't find anything to disagree with... and I'm an anarcho capitalist, which is basically the opposite of a lefty. Snopes even created a page for everyone that couldn't be bothered to watch the interview but still wanted to know whether they join in the great collective triggering. Why such an outburst over nothing? Gavin McInnes addressed this in a video response and he summed up my position pretty well:
As he pointed out, Carson wasn't saying that you cannot change a diaper without consent. She was saying that we parents ought to practice asking for consent at such times so that we're used to it by the time our kids are older and can actually grant it or deny it when asked. It's about our training to be good parents rather than training the kids - and I think that touches on the raw nerve in all this. Most parents want to control their kids as rulers rather than serve them as the service providers we are. I'm really glad this all came up because it reveals our positions on the matter of self-ownership, which is at the root of the matter. I strongly believe that the solution to most of the conflict in the world is to sort ourselves into homogeneous tribes of philosophically compatible people and then avoid entangling ourselves with those of other such tribes. When a controversy like this comes up, we quickly see how incompatible we are with many of our current neighbors and we also see how many people believe that they should impose their ways on others who disagree with them.
Those of us who uphold the basic principle of self-ownership and wish to remain logically consistent will have no problem with what Carson actually said but of course, most people don't really subscribe to that principle. Today, most parents still treat their children as property rather than self-owning individuals and I believe that's why they got so offended by her advice. It's not really that they think she's stupid or crazy at all, it's that she revealed an uncomfortable truth about traditional parenting. The outrage was so emotionally intense that it can't have only been an academic disagreement. It was a defensive outburst fueled by an underlying guilt.
I'm sure not everyone's reaction was because of that though. No doubt a lot of them just saw pink hair and were triggered like a college commie at a Jordan Peterson lecture. They just wanted to blurt out the fashionable reaction without actually having to listen to what it is they were supposedly reacting to first... but I suppose that's a topic for another day.
Guilty. Agree with what is said here. Didn’t watch interview. Saw pink hair. Knee-jerk. I didn’t go on a rant about it, but am glad you pointed this out, because I wrote her off as well, initially.
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I completely agree with you. After hearing about and seeing the public outcry I talked with the my partner, who is Japanese. Without any sign of doubt even she agreed on her theory.
It’s us parents who have to learn that our kids are own individuals and not our property.
And asking them for permission might even teach them the ability to say NO when someone is going to approach them in a way they are not comfortable with. It is also learning having they control over our own bodies.
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Yes. Yes. Yes!! Parents viewing their children as property to control, can create huge psychological issues with the child in terms of their ability for independent thought.
Imagine how different the world would be if more parents treated their children like human beings that were capable of making healthy decisions for themselves. How that might help those kids learn to tune into their wants and desires.
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I ignored all the outrage and gave her a look just out of curiosity. I found that after listening I already talk to my children before I change them. I treat them with respect and love and hope that they understand what I am trying to do for them.
Hey little (daughers name) lets get that diaper checked/changed.
But the best thing to remember about a dumpster fire is just that burning trash. It cant hurt anything makes a big odor and may inconvenience a firefighter for all of 2 minutes.
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Haven't watched the interview, didn't know about the interview until now but since I know the issue now, I couldn't agree more to what she has said.
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It was certainly an emotional reaction. But I think the origin for many people lies somewhere else.
When having a baby (especially the first) parents are often stressed out. Did I feed enough, did I feed to much, did I feed the wrong stuff, this and that. Thousands of people telling you what you absolutely should do to not be a bad parent, the doctors, friends, guides, newspapers, parents and so on. And you know that you can never do it all and are in reality just struggling to survive without messing your kid up.
Then when you hear about consent on changing diapers, on a baby that cannot react anyways, that for sure it the least of your concerns and you immediately think what a fking bullshit. And of course you dont have time to watch the full interview anyways, because you are busy changing diapers without consent.
On topic, I am not sure we should worry on this with our babies. It feels really pointless and artificial. You do not communicate with a baby in words, but naturally via a more emotional connection. Much more important is how you behave when the child is older and can clearly express rejection. Do you respect the choices of the child then, especially when they do not fit in your plans at all?
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My thinking on this is in line with other posters, i took what she was saying to mean consent with things like body language and recognisable noises before they can speak.
Stefan Molyneux also points out that before his daughter Isabella could put sentences together he would draw basic pictures with crayon and see if she understood through the communication means she had (corresponding drawing, smile etc).
With things like eating as well if a baby wants to feed i very much doubt that if you put the food source near the baby's mouth and let them do the rest that they would simply fail to eat.
From what i know of how trauma stays in the body and autonomic nervous systems while humans generally don't remember things before the age of two i would suspect traumas or simply stress of the parents would be remembered in the body and in stress responses from day one.
Having seen that she has something constructive to say I've found that i really don't mind her pink hair quite so much.
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I agree in asking people for consent, or in questions in general, or in asking for them to do their chores, jobs, duties, especially for children, as that helps us get into that mold of learning how to influence, how to be a friend, as they get bigger, older, and it helps them understand life, choices, in general.
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