Too bad that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, China, Singapore, and a whole bunch of other countries like NZ don't suffer from socialism 🤔.
The model of these countries has no similarity with Venezuela.
It's also odd to note that before Chávez the extreme poverty was more than twice what it is now.
False. The current poverty of Venezuela from 4 years until now, is higher than before Chávez will take power. On the other hand, it is worth mentioning that during the Chávez government poverty decreased, but it was due more to the increase in the price of oil than to anything else.
Expropriate companies, establish price controls, pay state deficits by issuing money, establish monetary control, steal money destined to build public works without finishing any, it is not a good system. It is worth mentioning that the hydroelectric plant was built by the socialist governments prior to Chávez, because Venezuela has been a socialist since 1958, not since Chávez arrived, and the one that nationalized the oil was the same party that built the hydroelectric power station, but Chávez and Maduro likes to call neoliberals.
lol is simply funny, every new socialist likes to say that he was the first, the true socialist, that the others were not. When Chávez came to power there was poverty, but the main reason for that is that the oil-socialist model had failed when oil prices fell, just as now.
Actually it's not higher than that and a Harvard study demonstrates that it wasn't just because of oil prices at all. Also those socialist countries do have a lot in common with Venezuelan policies, the only difference is corruption.
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Indeed, it was not only the price of oil, it was the poor management of the trillion dollars that the government received between 2004 and 2013 from oil revenues. For the rest, I doubt very much that any of the countries that you said hold public spending almost exclusively from a single resource, in this case oil.
All public companies were losing money and were being subsidized by the oil industry, in addition to the subsidy for gasoline for citizens, schools, all government bureaucracy and public works, all paid with money from oil exports, mostly sold in the United States. Do you know what happened?
PDVSA, the oil company, had 30,000 employees and grew to have 150,000, and then lowered oil production from 3 million barrels per day to 1 million (Not to mention that Chávez dismissed 17,000 employees from the company who had the highest technical training, which affected the company's operations), and the majority sold it with future contracts to China, so part of the little oil that is produced today, China takes it because they paid it years ago. Not to mention that the government was indebted for several years, so it has to pay interest to Goldman Sachs and others.
What happened to the government was quite basic, it is known as a Dutch disease, it also happened to the previous government. Although the corruption was very high too.
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Dutch disease isn't what happened to the government at all. Dutch disease happened to the public, to the people, to the economy. The first time it happened was before socialism, when the oil was in private hands and the wealth almost entirely siphoned into Spain and the old Conquistador blood.
I said that a Harvard study concluded quite differently than "the government got lucky with the oil price boom" which you simply repeated as if it has any validity, it does not.
Also, the extreme poverty and overall poverty is still not worse than before Chávez, not only that, because of his social programs the amount of university graduates tripled. More so, there has been, like the article you wandered into to disregard that socialism works (in Canada as well) and it wasn't socialism that caused the socioeconomic crisis in Venezuela, plenty of evidence and indication that the crisis was and continues to be driven directly by the NGO and extreme right wing terrorism that has killed more people than the Venezuelan national guard or police that gets routinely blamed for excessive force, as if any free country would put up with such violence and still try to compromise and have a dialogue with these "rebels". This has been along the same line of operation as what is pointe in the article above, and history shows that the US tried not once or twice but numerous times in the last 20 years to take out the Venezuelan leadership. The last pro government rally eclipsed any and all rallies the so called rebels mustered.
You can accuse Chavez of corruption or Maduro but you have no lick of evidence to support your accusations, and generalities about millions being stolen aren't any kind of proof, only hearsay at best. Equally you can simplify the issue into "the government" lowered oil production after firing the most competent employee as if nothing needs to preface those simplifications even, which is why it's irrelevant/inconsequential. The corruption is not at the head, but at the limbs and digits, and this has been proven again and again over there.
What is happening in Venezuela is what has happened in other Latin America Countries as per Economic Hitman details. NGO's sow dissent and rebellion, arming individuals with AT4 Launchers, Grenades and C4, among the pick of small arms and vehicles, and plenty of pocket change. At the same time anyone with ties to the US pressure is brought to either export goods which are needed domestically, or cease production, and at the same time impose sanctions and economic consequences / conditions for anyone who does not obey. This has been detailed in numerous cases in Latin America, and the imperialistic parasite has not bother to hide that with Venezuela at all.
Venezuela has give the entire Latin American world the chance to escape the 100 plus years of American Imperialism, and it only happened because of Chavez.
Corruption is a problem but the crisis is not because of corruption. Socialism is exactly what Canada, NZ, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Norway, Finland, China, Singapore, Belgium, and a handful of other countries have had, some for 60 or more years without a crisis like Venezuela. The public /private ownership ratio is comparable in Venezuela to that in the United States if you take into account the government interest through subsidies in so called "private sector".
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No, those countries aren't socialists, far from it. Even China stopped being a real socialist country after Mao's revolutions.
I already shared this link but I will do it again, https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
Check the economic freedom index and you will see those countries have a lot of it.
I think it would clear things up if you could share your own definition of socialism, can you define socialism?
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Yes, socialism is the state ownership or control over fundamental sectors of society, such as health, education and utilities.
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Yes, so? did you check the economic freedom of those countries in the index I shared?
State ownership is computed into those rankings, stop calling those countries socialist because they are simple not socialist, they have free market capitalism.
China is different though, but still, they stopped supporting those obsolete ideas after Mao's revolution ended.
Can you share data that can justify why do you think those countries are socialists?
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They are socialist and socialism is not against free market.
All those countries have strict regulations regarding environment protection, they all offer extensive welfare and all have free health care and education. They regulate business and tax heavily, and they are socialist because of the extent of welfare system they have in place.
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Socialism isn't about that, you said it yourself in a previous comment where you defined socialism. Those countries aren't socialists, they have a market economy, you cannot have a market economy and socialism at the same time.
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Also, private company ownership increased during Chavez and after.
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It is probable, the GDP went from 80,000 million to 400,000 with the rise of oil, so the private industry grew despite the fact that the government nationalized the most important bank, the telecommunications industry, supermarkets, and other things, but yes, sure that the private parasite sector that feeds on the State grew during his government.
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No just corruption, but economic freedom (free market capitalism) https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
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There is still as much economic freedom in Venezuela as in those other countries. Heritage has had no problem with putting Dictators and Despots among their "free" countries.
[Rwanda] (https://www.blackagendareport.com/rwanda-kagame-elected-dictator-life)
Qatar
And a country as corrupt and in violation of human rights as Philippines, probably the most corrupt government in the world, is "moderately free".
It figures as this is a DC think tank who wanted the president to be a dictator more or less:
https://www.alternet.org/2012/11/what-i-learned-conservative-think-tank-propaganda-now-facts-later/
Lol sure, what dictator isn't democratically elected in transparent and internationally verified elections and treats terrorists rebels with concessions and offers for dialogue which are refused as the elite very wealthy instigators want to burn people and buildings because they know that the overwhelming majority dominate the elections/votes.
The last pro government rally eclipsed any and all "student" protests they had.
The lies heritage.org spew are clear as day to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
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hahahahahahaha you are funny, keep drinking the socialist kool aid man
It is amazing that even after discussing with Venezuelans you still keep believing your fantasies, I guess that happens when a person is indoctrinated.
Which lies? Give examples and proof.
The Fraser Institute has a similar index:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/economic-freedom-of-the-world-2018.pdf
Economic freedom breeds prosperity, and socialism destroys it.
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So tell me if I discussed something with a fellow American, that automatically means that what they say is educated, researched and otherwise informed?
You speak about drinking the coolaid but you had absolutely nothing of substance to add to the conversation, only bullshit rhetoric from warmongering Think Tank that you weren't even a little bit concerned about sharing, you probably think that the narrative they have for Venezuela is correct. Let me tell you, I don't have to LIVE somewhere to find information from independent sources that bother to do the legwork and report in an unbiased manner. You drink up anything that cronyism mixes up, without batting an eyelash. I pointed out how your source has no qualification to open their garbage trap about Freedom when they advertise Despots and Dictatorships as Free and all you can do is give another mouthpiece of Exon and Koch Brothers. Critical you are not.
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you call independent anything that defends socialism or maduro, yes, you like to drink the kool aid.
Either way, you will never change your opinion so as I said before, there is no point in wasting time with an indoctrinated person.
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I look at independent AND unbiased source sources that don't rage against anyone that is not in the pocket of imperialistic US, like Koch and Exon who both have a conflict of interest in this situation. Muh critical you are not. You may live in Venezuela but you don't even know how much the private sector and other things changes during Chavez, or you don't want to know.. Either way your bias of "capitalism" and "rent seeking" profiteering is showing.
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Such as? Are they leftists or socialists? Share some examples please.
Yes I know. The statistic you shared was from 2013, we are in 2019 :)
What are you talking about? stop seeing ghosts
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Do you know who funds the heritage foundation?
The very same interests who stand to profit the most from regime change in Venezuela.
Oh and guess who's a frequent speaker at The Heritage Foundation?
Our friend John Bolton, you know the war monger National Security Advisor who cheered on the invasion of Iraq and who still believes that it was a success! Now is hell bent on intervention in Venezuela - same guy.
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What about the Fraser Institute? They also have a very similar index.
No one is saying that there aren't interests regarding the Venezuelan situation, what you seem to deliberately ignore, is that the most sinister interests are from the maduro regime and their supporters.
What about the Venezuelan people? Do you think they are enjoying the "benefits" of having the maduro regime controlling the oil and the entire country?
How do you think the Venezuelan situation can be fixed?
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A regime that allows protesters to shut down cities. Makes sense.
A regime that was elected in transparent and internationally verified elections by an overwhelming majority. Makes, sense.
A regime that barely has a media presence in it's own country, where 90% of the media is privately owned AND against the "regime" and they regularly lie, and stage shit that the routine is hilarious.
A regime that has decreased extreme poverty and overall poverty and tripled the university graduates. Makes sense.
A regime that has hundreds of thousands of supporters at the last rally. Makes sense.
A regime that has to this day still made concession for violent protestors and even pardoned some for the coup attempt in '03. Makes sense.
Where is the proof of your alleged "most sinister interests" regarding the so called "regime". On that note, what qual do you use to distinguish the democratically elected President as a Regime?
Where is the proof that Maduro controls the entire county, when 70% of businesses are in the private sector?
How do YOU think the 'situation' can be fixed?
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