A rant about retaliatory downvotes followed by our decision to halt ocdb downvotes

in downvotes •  5 years ago 

Yes, I know, ranting about downvotes, so 2019, eh? Well that's kind of a good thing cause it shows that we learned to use them somewhat well and they aren't as needed anymore because the community has formed a sort of consensus on when they are used and learned to accept them as a form of disagreement of rewards depending on the content. Of course there are other factors involved as well, popularity, effort and maybe history and experience of what the account does and if the rewards are deserved. In any case it should be clear by now that no one wants to use downvotes, there's nothing of benefit from using them to the downvoter except returning those rewards to everyone else who isn't getting downvoted. I don't want to single out @steemflagrewards but lost in translation I can see how that may give a bad perception of what the project does and that their users aren't really being rewarded for using their downvotes directly, more about finding content that many feel could use them. In any case it should be clear by now that the people downvoting are sticking their necks out because the consequences that follow are nothing but negative such as retaliation, which hunt and who knows what else we may see happening in the future. Let's just say people kill for way less. While I know that sounds scary/bad it's just the world we live in and considering the reactions of some accounts receiving downvotes due to disagreement of rewards it would not surprise me one bit. We've seen retaliation in so many forms happening, even when they can't directly retaliate to the downvoter because he doesn't post, they've instead been going after accounts associated with it or directly downvoting content the downvoter upvotes.

Anyway, as happy as I am that the EIP has been enforced more and it has pushed a lot of accounts to increase their quality not just out of fear of being downvoted but also since a lot more curation is occurring and they're starting to see that great quality does get rewarded more, even though some accounts don't like to stack votes on already curated great content cause it could mean they'd be the last to do so and not get as much curation rewards which I talked about in this post.

I'm gonna try keep this post short, not gonna go into how all this started and what it has resulted in. I'm under the impression now that these users who were signaling hard to remove downvotes after the EIP and that it will just cause negativity and toxicity and never used them on their own community which in turn forced other curation projects like @curangel to use them that they were just playing dumb and pretending not to understand the bigger picture. Of course I'm not saying all of them do this and there is curation and distribution going on there as well but with a few big accounts still mainly rewarding themselves and tricking others that they are the victims it has become really cringey. They openly post about who they will target with downvotes next and the smaller users attempting to get on their good side shout out comments such as "yeah, let's get them", "the war has started", "we will show them after what they've done to us", etc. The epitome of cringe is when minnows who post original content themselves and don't get curation join the downvoting witch hunts which is just sad in my opinion and does way more danger than the usual retaliation would have.

Their main defensive points from what I've read have been:

  • you are downvoting posts you don't understand
  • we have bought expensive steem
  • we will retaliate more than the downvotes you've given us
  • other cult like behavior

While I agree with the first point and have made it clear to some english speaking users that just downvoting posts because they don't understand them is as stupid as upvoting random posts from the "new" list the problem here is that it's not all too difficult to judge some posts for being over-rewarded. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to judge the rewards on this post for instance and whatever curangel have been downvoting they are a curation project so excuse me if I trust their judgement more than investors lead by one of the biggest farmers oldstone/slowwalker/an army of other accounts people have easily narrowed it down to belonging to him. Excuse me for not trusting investors who's main projects have been front-ends ran by vote-selling which most definitely still occurs through their steem-engine token instead of genuine curation depending on content and other factors that I mentioned at the beginning of the post. Excuse me if you feel entitled to post rewards because you bought Steem way too high up on the charts the same way I did or didn't understand the difference between Steem and SBD.

When there's people who have countless of times attempted to explain why the downvotes have occurred and why instead of making it difficult for us they should be the ones "policing" their own community and using the downvotes for a healthier distribution and curation which would positively reflect on the value of their investments. Instead of just being completely against downvotes but using them well like the rest of us try and then apparently when you're fed up you start wars and go against all posts of random innocent users like taskmaster4450 just because you think he is transisto because he curates him or as you stated in your posts that oldstone "found him" and go on a witchhunt which does way more damage than any of curangels and ocdb's curated downvotes may have ever done. It is absolutely disgusting behavior and while you may trick your followers that you're the victim here and only defending yourself you should realize that there's a lot of others following what's going on and you're not doing yourself a favor.

If ROI is really the most important part for you and you feel entitled to post rewards to maximize on it then I unfortunately have to tell you that Steem might be the wrong cryptocurrency for you. You may want to look at one of the other brainless DPOS or POS coins that just give you inflation based on your holdings and you won't need to waste time generating content on several accounts as placeholders for your upvotes without being social and using the platform the way it is meant to be used.

Anyway, this is still one of those early days where the EIP can't be enforced too well because stake isn't distributed that good even though it's been one of my major attempts throughout this almost 4 year journey. The volatility in price may be great for the distribution but that's not going to happen if the majority goes back to other whales who then use it to only grow larger and dictate who gets rewarded and who gets downvoted based on their greed and emotions.

I have to agree though that emotions are normal as we're all human, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that seeing their downvotes on anything I post, whether it be cross-posts of other authors, especially new authors that get 90% of the rewards or other content I may put out there it does give me that urge to go on a downvoting spree but if I were to do that it would mean I'm being pretty unprofessional and going against the main points of the EIP. Not saying I haven't done that every now and then but the way some do is just really, really sad and makes me wonder how no one in their community speaks up about it. I'm guessing they just don't want to get involved as anything with using downvotes or going against those using them will put you in the wrong side instead of people realizing that you're just voicing your opinions and not letting that judge the way they curate.

Okay, this got way longer than I expected, so what I wanted to say still is that I'll be halting @ocdb from downvotes for now. This was not an easy decision but considering how little they've been used lately and that some of these consequences have gone way too far for what it's been worth the returns to the pool I would prefer it to not escalate even more. Especially since some of these retaliations are landing on innocent accounts and they don't seem to have any boundaries, I would prefer not to spend any more time on this and instead go back to focusing on curation, onboarding, retention and growing our community and assisting other ones as well. I guess I can say we did our part ever since the EIP was launched to attempt to push some of the worst vote-traders and small circle voters and vote sellers to give curation a try and I like the results it has brought so far. Of course we were just a small part of it all so I'm not trying to take much credit for it but I do think those who have been using their downvotes deserve more credit than they get while others have just looked away and avoided it altogether. I have a lot of respect for you and I'd understand if you lost some for us cause of our decision to stop the downvotes now.

Closing words, Steem is bigger than all of us here today and the rewards pool. Most people/investors have a price in mind and that might do more for distribution in the long term, the inflation period is still very long and ongoing and those who are here for that very long term will hopefully do well and try to make this place as fair and awesome as possible. Thanks.

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For anyone interested and who was following our trail, if you didn't bother reading the whole post:

image.png

Feel free to follow another trail, thanks for your support and the enforcement of the EIP it has resulted in.

It is a pity bout the downvotes as the group that are retaliating are taking a massive amount out of the pool daily, for a very small slice of the Steem community. It is also interesting that they seem fine with their behavior, entitled even. It is quite pathetic and it is a pity that for the last 2+ years they have been doing this consistently with no repercussions.

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

Welcome Back, Welcome to the future.

New Changes with your support look like this

image.png

We win only together with new leadership

I do see the need for downvotes, use it myself especially on one vegan troll who comments on posts & upvotes his own comment but gives no support to that post! But when I received a memo from someone a while back warning me to remove my vote for a certain witness (this person has a similar name to that witness) or else I'd be faced with a multitude of downvotes, I was quite alarmed! Well the downvotes have started happening to me, although they're currently worth nothing but what if they start getting bigger? And I hated seeing how @curangel was being attacked!
Some people will always abuse systems for their own gratification!
I saw a sign recently on someone's post that said:

Why should we Rest in Peace
When we can Live in Peace?

That memo was a joke @lizelle the people behind it are so sad. Apparently they're going around upvoting people now with their leased SP probably to make sure they recover their cost.

!engage 40

Thank you @livinguktaiwan, I saw that person has been auto-upvoting my recent posts! I crossposted my own post last week to another community on Steempeak, immediately after posting the initial post just to see what happens, but was horrified to see all the auto upvotes came through again, not the ethical thing on my part so I will burn the rewards from that repost but that's when I saw this person's upvote again!
Thanks for the tokens;)



@lizelle you have received 40 ENGAGE from @livinguktaiwan!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.


This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!

You may want to look at one of the other brainless DPOS or POS coins that just give you inflation based on your holdings and you won't need to waste time generating content on several accounts as placeholders for your upvotes without being social and using the platform the way it is meant to be used.

Other coins don’t tickle their e-go and a sense of godhood.

yeah, thats so true. Power is what secude and corrupt people, not money.

I've seen plenty of orcas and whales who enjoy being surrounded by "community" they support. They think it mostly means being praised in Discord while clicking a button.

Most of the times, these guys vote on a lot of crap and their "worshipers" probably laugh at how easy it is to milk behind their backs.

Reminds me of that @dimimp guy really.

I’m pretty sure I only downvoted 3 things in all my day and they were offensive and awful YouTube vids...😐🤔🙄

Posted using Partiko iOS

...and those who are here for that very long term will hopefully do well and try to make this place as fair and awesome as possible. Thanks.

Make capthca a requirement for upvoting and down voting.

Sort the lazy from the industrious, the people who care, from the people who use code to game and maximize.

I've found that the lazy walk away , when effort is required.

Yeah, why didn't anyone think about this, like ever?

O yeah, the lazy make suggestions that have been made for years because why bother to investigate, or even consider why nobody seemingly suggested that.

Hello Andy!
Still employed? lolol

People suggested getting rid of central banks for years, also.
(those that understand fractional reserve lending , fiat money, and bank deposits being a loan to the bank.)

Whats your point?
Cutting wit?
You're really shit at it.

If you bothered at all to investigate, or considered why such a seemingly simple suggestion was never materialized on an Open Source, Completely Transparent and Decentralized platform then don't worry, I'm sure someone will enlighten you and do all the legwork by explaining the intricacies of any Captcha or such a system on a.. Transparent, Decentralized, Open Source, Platform (yeah I know, none of those terms mean anything to you, yet here you are, making suggestions about things you haven't the acumen to investigate even cursorily, not that you haven't a predilection for laziness and avoidance of specifics, tell me again how all Banks are the same).

Hey, what was that one thing that you couldn't help yourself from spamming whenever you did that whole "expressing" yourself?

.... (the epitome of effort).

I'd love to stay and chat, but some growing mold has my attention.
(It's far more interesting).
Apologies!!!! I never meant to infer that you had a personality.
Silly me.

Are you lonely?

Sorry I don't understand, can you ...

(those that understand fractional reserve lending , fiat money, and bank deposits being a loan to the bank.)

LOL, yeah like the same people who argue that because the bank doesn't return the exact notes and coins you deposited (errmm Loaned) that it's stealing your money, literally the logic of the "blog" article you link to substantiate the BS that, yeah, you're loaning the bank money, not depositing..

Dumbass doesn't understand why or how Steem OR Captcha works, but that doesn't stop them from thinking they've single-handedly addressed numerous problems by seemingly suggesting the former adopt the later.

Plenty of nonthoughts have made the exact same suggestion, you're not the first, don't worry, I have no doubt that this won't hinder you from continuing on speaking about things you don't care to investigate and understand, I only ridicule you for my own amusement, don't take it personal, you're probably not a dumbass, you probably just do this all the time, act like a dumbass.

The world can be filled with some nasty people. Something I’ve learned myself when protecting my own little neck of the woods. There is only so much that can be done before efforts are better spent elsewhere.

Long term for many of the amazing midnight oil burning content creators out there the reward pool will be just a small part for them. Great when a post or video goes “virial” and when they don’t they have acquired better deals/monetization options for that content anyways. We are so early into this new world that will evolve overtime.

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vote-selling which most definitely still occurs through their steem-engine token instead of genuine curation

So much makes sense to me now 🤔 I've seen ceratain accounts constantly getting a specific whale upvote almost instantly as soon as they post anything, almost as if it was on autovote and the content in my opinion doesn’t deserve it...and it happens constantly for that user on every post! I went and checked their wallets for evidence of vote buying...Nada! Steem-engine might be the explanation 🤔

There’s always a downside to everything that was made to improve the platform. The downvote war in the end comes down to ego. It doesn’t matter if the downvotes were given keeping disagreement of reward in mind, it hits their ego and they retaliate. Nothing much you could have done here.

It may be time to rethink the downvote system and see how we can more efficiently reward only those publications that generate value. As far as I can see, the remedy is worse than the disease.

"Why shouldn't this be downvoted?"

I tend to do quite a bit of downvoting, although my stake is pretty small I still downvote bad posts.

Sounds like down voting those folks would be a good defense of the chain move for Stinc's stake.

I am I safe presuming they will only grow until somebody big enough cares to put a stop to their sucking us dry?

It is very emotional and sentimental note.
The damage done by downvote is huge. However there are still people who believe in real human element and good mission for all at platform. I can forgive if I know that you are willing to make Steem better in the competitive world of real original content distribution movement.
Steem on!

Hey hermano!
Como estás? Tiempo sin saber de ti...
Felicitaciones por el apoyo a la iniciativa:

Why I Am Still Here? auspiciada por @theycallmedan

Me divertí mucho al participar y he dejado mi entrada!
Saludos, te deseo éxitos, bro!
#venezuela

Total apoyo a los testigos postulados!
Soft Fork, buena vibra

Hey.. You still selling any Smoke for Steem ? @acidyo .... how much Smoke for 10 Steem ?

Congratulations @acidyo! You received a personal award!

Thank you for the witness votes you made to support your Steem community and for keeping the Steem blockchain decentralized

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Congratulations @acidyo! You received a personal award!

Look's like you do not like Justin. Did you really downvote him?

You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:

Use your witness votes and get the Community Badge
Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!

당신은 이런 말을 할 자격도 없는 사람입니다.
당신들이 한짓을 생각해보기 바랍니다.
무조건 잘못했다고 용서를 구해도 모자랄판에 뭔 변명이 이리 많습니까?

사과를 하고 싶으면 제대로 하고 용서를 구하고 싶으면 제대로 용서를 구하는 사내가 되기 바랍니다.

Huh? Not sure if google translate is translating it right but I have nothing to apologize for. If those I trusted with @ocdb used the downvotes for retaliation and personal matters that would be the only thing I apologize for as I trusted them and I also always reminded them not to bring posts to 0 as the point is to encourage genuine curation instead of self-voting.

There is no way I'm going to ask forgiveness from someone who chooses targets blindly in retaliation and for weeks goes after innocent content creators. Good luck with that, keep downvoting my posts, it'll make you look great.