Poll: Would you rather posts on Steem never "expire" from being eligible for rewards?
I recently created a post about improving Steems ability to reward content creators by improving tools and UX flows towards donations vs most rewards coming from Steem inflation.
While the good people over at @steempeak were brainstorming how you might accomplish this and I was basically just snooping on their convo, I overheard(overread?) something I found interesting.
It was mentioned that a comment could be created and auto-hidden by the frontend to track some information from the post. They were talking about using it for something else but that got the gears turning in my head about another issue that I think would overall just make Steem better, which is the 7 day expiration date on posts.
So first off if there is some technical reason this exists, please enlighten me because I'm only looking at this from the user perspective and it just seems counter intuitive. Did the information in the post lose all value after a week? If you created a music video and put it on Steem exclusivly you'd only be able to monetize it for 7 days? That doesn't make any sense. Again, as I mentioned in previous posts this, is a misaligned incentive. It deters users from posting content that they might deem extremely valuable. At least it would deter them from posting it exclusively on Steem, which is what would be of greatest value to Steem.
So the idea was, since frontends can basically do a lot of stuff behind the scenes, but show the user whatever they want, wouldn't it be possible to create a workaround around the 7 day expiration by visually resetting the upvote checkbox, then if someone upvotes a post after the 7 day period, a comment is created on that post, auto-hidden, upvoted by the user casting the upvote, but the value on that comment is visually shown as additional value for the post?
It sounds a bit hacky, but it should work right?
So the poll question here is, is this something you would be interested in?
- Yes, I'd rather my posts be able to earn rewards indefinitely.
- No, I like things the way they are.
- Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other.
Answer the question at dpoll.xyz.
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Check this out ..I have never tried it because I don't write good content..
https://steem-bounty.com/services/forever
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@abbak7 Yea, this is really similar, although I'm thinking it would just be built directly in the frontend so it doesn't take any extra steps. I feel like I remember when this came out. I think they might have pissed people off because they didn't clearly disclose they were taking a beneficiary reward for this service, or they were taking too large a beneficiary reward or both. If it's the same service, not sure.
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I think that it is vital to change the payout structure to a permanent one if we want to attract more content producers. Especially for people posting on dtube and sites where you expect traffic over a long period of time.
I'm not sure about the technical side of things but I have suggested a separate token before that you can vote with permenantly and trade to steem.
Or if you could vote the author rather than the individual post. Every day the author rewards would be payed out after 7 days wait regardless of what content the vote was placed on. Could be a much simpler system to use.
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The reason I specifically chose this solution is because it doesn't require a hardfork. Changing the core functionality of how Steem works is a lot harder to implement because it requires a lot more people to agree. Any frontend(busy, Steempeak, Steeve, esteem, etc) could implement this pretty quickly(I think) and see how it's received and if it causes lots of issues, just get rid of it.
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I'm going to say yes here.. and caveat it with - maybe not indefinitely.. But there needs to be a way to reward viral posts that take off after the 7 day window.. and as you mention things like music videos that have a slow burn over time
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Well the key would be that the comment is only created once someone upvotes on a post past the 7 day period, ie the vast majority of posts would never trigger it to begin with, but as you said in cases where something is really viral, or has a slow burn, it wouldn't shaft those people.
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Ah I might have glossed over that point.. Yah.. something that will allow you to continue to upvote maybe with some smaller payout.. but will capture all those truant votes..
That one could be left open indefinitely and payout every 7 day period or something..
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really interesting idea, and if what you say is technically possible it would be great, and maybe not that complicated to implement. and would certainly add more value to quality written posts.
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I prefer the current system because it is hard enough to read through the hundreds of blog posts daily. If old posts could continue to be upvoted, then new posts would not get as many views.
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But does this not encourage people to just post content everyday regardless of quality. If you were writing a post or making a video that you wanted to be seen for years I'm sure you would try to make it to a higher standard.
Just say you want to shoot a short movie for dtube? That could take a few weeks to create but if it is dead in days there is no point. Same goes for writing detailed informitive posts that should be available for years to help people, instead they are pushed to the side instantly. Just my thoughts on it.
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I do know that the intent of the window is because it is too resource intensive to keep reward calculations open for all posts indefinitely.
The method you propose sounds interesting, as it creates a workaround that would only trigger when a post generates renewed or continual interest. Honestly, the vast majority of social media style posts don’t see any prolonged activity. No one goes back to a two year old image of someone’s dinner and likes it!
I’ve previously advocated for a different “hack” with the same intent. An interface or interfaces should develop a “resteem with comment” option. I remember seeing this even listed as something that could be implemented with new Hivemind tools. But, the step further I’d like to see, is for that “share” style to automatically reference the author of the shared post and set them as a fairly significant rewards beneficiary.
So for instance, I find an awesome year old tutorial you did, and resteem it on my blog with a comment for my followers to check it out. I get 30-40% of any rewards my share generates, and 60-70% goes to you. This creates an “evergreen” revenue stream for posts, encourages resteems and sharing, and a whole new breed of curation rewards emerges, that greatly benefits casual users with low SP holdings that don’t benefit from curation rewards now due to the low impact of their votes.
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True enough about typically social media post not generating continued interest, which is why I think this could work without bogging down the system. It would benefit the few cases where someone shares content that does create renewed interest like, a tutorial, or a music video, or artwork, etc. It would shift the incentives here to quality over quantity.
Also love the resteem idea, I think it would be cool if the poster could set the amount with like a minimum of 15% or something. But imagine you're promoting something, you might set it to 100% if your primary goal is to spread the word about something.
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I like that aspect of it being a customizable field set by the author. You’re absolutely right it could be a strategy to get more exposure and promotion.
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After thinking more about my reply, I thought of a troublesome exploit though, someone would post something on account A, have 100 alt accounts that all resteem the post and have account A set the beneficiary amount to where the resteemers get 100% of the payout.
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Knircky has been working on something similar to what you describe called STEEM Forever (he's the one who created the steem bounty system). Information about it, what there is of it, can be found here: https://steem-bounty.com/services/forever, or you can look through posts by knircky to find the one he wrote about it some months back.
Personally, I tried it once, but I don't know if anything came of it. It's supposed to create a comment that can be upvoted if people choose to do so, but never saw that happen, so I don't have first hand knowledge about that.
I know there is some rationale to keeping it to a seven day pay system and then it's done, but I can't say I've really understood it. The fact is, though, some content is going to be at least somewhat evergreen, like your music video example, while much more of it won't be. I think part of it has to do with keeping bots or alt accounts from forever upvoting their own creations, but I would think there would be a way for the system to keep track of who has already upvoted, and then not allow them to do it after seven days.
Also, I would think it has something to do with flags, too. If you disagree with content, you and your cohorts only have to worry about seven days as opposed to an ongoing approach to keep the value down. Sad, but I think those are at least some of the reasons.
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Indefinite rewards are a recurring argument as to why the old school systems are still better (because assuming you are big enough to earn on YouTube, you can still earn on your old stuff). And I do think it’s a big advantage of any place that doesn’t have this limit.
Don’t have any practical hacks though 😆 if it’s a thing that is wanted and that can be done it probably needs to be done better to begin with. Maybe whoever’s coding will find a way as it seems everyone including the devs is kind of learning with this.
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Yes,I'd rather my posts be able to earn rewards indefinitely. Someone just asked me about something that was in a blog I posted 3 weeks ago and I sent him the link to that post. If he likes the post and it is of value to him, he won't be able to up-vote the post to be of value to me.
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The idea makes sense to me.
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Really interesting concept
mate! I like the idea that a post can be re-activated by a button to earn rewards again... but I’m not so sure that indefinite earnings on it are necessary. Plus I wonder if that might be exploited somehow?
My heart, of course says ‘Yes’! Who wouldn’t want to be rewarded for ever, but my head says it’s an exercise that might bring less attention from the reward pool to newer work.
I guess if I have an old post that gets attention because people like the content, then comments on it might mean I can always bring it back to life in another post again - perhaps updating the discussion as I go?
But equally, I’d love to see indefinite rewards ;)
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Well I guess one thing to understand is that what I'm suggesting is more of a UI/UX change vs a functionality change. This is all possible right now, so there wouldn't be any hidden exploits.
Basically, lets say I go back 3 months to one of your posts and leave a comment saying "Wow! This is awesome!" You leave a reply and say "Thanks!" Now for whatever reason, a bunch of people come along and upvote your comment where you say thanks, and you get those rewards. The post is old, but the comment is new. This just does that, but visually shows the user something different, it just shows visually that those upvotes are added to the post total.
Now for the vast majority of people, they're going to just look at your most recent posts, but let's take your 60 seconds video. The value you created there doesn't expire. If a month from now someone sees that and loves it and happens to show their appreciation by upvoting you, should you not receive that upvote? Currently you wouldn't.
I just feel like in situations like these it makes perfect sense for you to be able to accept the reward someone wants to give you. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Ok, that’s super interesting.
So it’s in the comments where the votes actually happen and the user sees the over post total increase?
I think that’s fair and makes sense :)
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Yes, it's only visually that it looks like the post is indefinitely receiving rewards, but in actuality behind the scenes, it's just a hidden comment that's getting upvoted.
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Cool. It’s a great idea if it can be implemented!
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It makes the game more interesting. To me, posting on steemit is a game rather than a form of working for income.
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Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!
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To elaborate, I think it would be really nice if Steemit can keep giving rewards to old posts, and also for author to be able to choose and sticky 3 to 5 posts on our page, and to resteem our old stuff (maybe with some limitation). It will cut down the amount of people reposting the same materials for sure.
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I think all that could be done on frontends. Have you seen Steempeaks portfolio page? Its a feature you have to turn on but it creates a page that you can basically organize yourself. The only thing I don't like about it is the way you organize it is with a tag and the tag is "photo". So if you never use the tag photo, you can go through and modify old posts and change one of the tags to photo and that would put it on the portfolio page. The bad part of that is if you have actual photos, which I do for a few posts, and you've tagged them with photo, they show up there as well. I've tried to get them to change it to something like "portfolio" but I don't know if there was enough demand.
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Hi @midlet!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 4.484 which ranks you at #2042 across all Steem accounts.
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You got a 9.34% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @midlet! :)
@ocdb is a non-profit bidbot for whitelisted Steemians, current max bid is 24 SBD and the equivalent amount in STEEM.
Check our website https://thegoodwhales.io/ for the whitelist, queue and delegation info. Join our Discord channel for more information.
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duh
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Thanks for contributing to the dPoll content.
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This post has been included in the latest edition of SoS Daily News - a digest of all you need to know about the State of Steem.
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