How much is too much? What self-vote % do you consider to be abuse?

runicar (72) in dpoll • 5 years ago

How much is too much? What self-vote % do you consider to be abuse?

Because on Steem we have the ability to upvote our own content, doors are wide open for users to abuse the system in order to maximize returns on their SP. While some might not agree with the fact that rampant self-voting is abusive behavior, I think that most will actually agree that it is.

But exactly what percentage of self-voting would you consider to be abusive behavior?

Let us know.

20-30%

30-40%

40-50%

50-60%

60-70%

70-80%

80-90%

90-100%

self-votes aren't abuse!

Answer the question at dpoll.xyz.

dpoll poll steem upvote self-vote abuse steemit

5 years ago by runicar (72)

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pjau (63) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

I only consider it abuse if you are spamming just to self vote.

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2 votes

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

That's exactly how I feel about it.

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1 vote

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scienceangel (70) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

I have answered question in this way since it was asked in a very limited fashion.

The problem is far more complicated than it is covered by this poll. In my opinion, current scenario, where individuals/whales decide what percentage of self-voting is fine, and then down-votes are being introduced, is completely wrong way of doing things.

Self-voting should either be completely, 100% acceptable thing, no limits, or should be banned completely, where you don't have an option to upvote yourself, and you can only upvote other posts.

Self-voting is allowed.

Whether you've earned your STEEM solely on this platform, or bought it with your fiat, those are your earnings either way, and you reserve all rights to use them as you want. If self-voting is already allowed as option, then no one has the right to ''punish'' you for using an available option and managing your earnings the way you want.

Steemit users cannot cast self-vote (they don't have an upvote button in their own posts).

This would be an elegant solution for ''abuse'' of the big whales small users are complaining about. It would have to be coupled with KYC process of registering an STEEM account, so that one person could only have one account, so multiple account self-voting could be avoided as well. Maybe then we would be able to see shit posters filtering themselves out of here, and people really competing for upvotes with somewhat good content.

These are just my two cents, and of course, I'm fully aware of other issues here on platform, such as votes buying, etc.

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1 vote

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

I disagree that we should either 100% allow self-voting or remove it completely but I foresee that there is possibly no solution to this "issue" because those who want to game the system will game it no matter what.

Even with KYC those who want to self-vote could simply create alt accounts and still self-vote as much as they want.

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scienceangel (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

Every system that has ever been made by a human can be gamed by a human. You cannot possibly prevent it 100%. But you can make it more difficult, and by doing so, decrease the probability/percentage of such events.

Just because you can always think of ways how a certain system can be gamed, that doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve things, and just sink into the nihilism that nothing makes sense anyway.

But of course, I'm not that stupid to actually believe that STEEM ecosystem is about quality, fair play and growth.

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1 vote

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Well said! I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I think that this system will always stay as is because Stinc obviously has no intention in fighting self-voting.

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bluerobo (61) · 5 years ago

Self votes should not be allowed

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bluerobo (61) · 5 years ago

Voted for

20-30%

Self voting is a strange concept

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

It sure is.

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murphylee (62) · 5 years ago

I am forcing myself to restrain from commenting, probably because I have been flagged before by the author of this article. But, I will go ahead and share my view:
Do you want? Those who have really great SP are the ones who protest against self Upvote the most. Because, Upvote is sure for them.
My Question is, if you are growing your business, would you refrain from using your own product??
Self Upvote is 101% right. Until, this plateform make it impossible to do so...
The kick against self Upvote has become intimidation to growing Steemians and it is not fair - it's arrogance! However, if you only do self Upvote and don't Upvote others, that's being self centered, which is equally bad!
That's my mind, no fears!

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Where did I flag you?

Actually, it's the other way around. Some high sp stakeholders like haejin abuse the system by 10x selfvoting and the small fishes are protesting against it.

If one can only grow through self-voting than he/she doesn't deserve to grow, am I right?

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partiko (66) · 5 years ago

Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!

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belemo (72) · 5 years ago

Voted for

50-60%
self-votes aren't abuse!

It is a complicated issue in my honest opinion. but i generally don't think it is abuse because the system permits it. Saying someone can't use their steempower as he/she deems fit goes against the freedom we're looking for on steemit. This is not to say I think it is fair, it isn't and that is a discussion for another

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

It truly is. Especially because everyone has their own opinion on it which differs from others based on their point of view on the topic. So, would you agree that there should be a built-in break on how many self-votes one should give himself per day?

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belemo (72) · 5 years ago

I guess that could work. Although I suspect many people will kick against it. Also, there's also the issue of circle jerking and there's also nothing stopping me from creating a bunch of alts and just upvote the shit out of them.

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streetstyle (72) · 5 years ago

I am probably my own biggest up voter.... without it those that do up vote my content would receive about half the curation rewards otherwise.... I post once or twice a day and lately that has even been sporadic lately.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Nah, you only self-vote 5% which equals to 20% of your incoming votes and I don't think that's too much.

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1 vote

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streetstyle (72) · 5 years ago

Thanks @runicar I do try to help other Steemians with up votes... but I do feel that if I didn't up vote myself, my rewards would be sadly a lot lower, therefore affecting those that do up vote my posts, that is mostly why I do it. If I had bigger rewards then I wouldn't upvote my own posts but would rather use it on others.... but for now I self vote, but as you said, not to the point of abuse.
Anyhow, have a good one, take care and keep it coming!
Full Steem Ahead!
ps, I still remember that onion post!

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markkujantunen (74) · 5 years ago

Voted for

20-30%

In addition to straight up self voting, other forms of taking without producing value should be taken into account like exchanging votes. But regarding self-voting, I'd say 20-30 is reasonable. I don't upvote my own comments except for visibility - and that happens approximately once every few hundred comments. I do upvote my own posts but I normally post 1-2 times a day.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Oh yeah, the circle-jerks.... The likes of @adsactly, @exyle and friends. The ones who actually 10x/day themselves through voting their cronies. Those are the worst. Ironically, the traditional abuser @exyle runs a witness. You would think that someone who runs a witness would know better but obviously that is not the case.

I'm in the same camp as you when it comes to self-voting comments I only do it for visibility and very rarely. Recently I stopped self-voting my content altogether although before I was at around 5-10%.

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markkujantunen (74) · 5 years ago

Exyle has invested hundreds of thousands of his money in Steem.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Your argument is irrelevant. Haejin has invested more than a million into Steem but that still doesn't make what he is doing right.

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markkujantunen (74) · 5 years ago

I disagree. It's less bad for someone who has invested a lot to extract than for someone who hasn't to do that. Of course, it's still bad as it sets a bad example.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

It may be less bad but that still doesn't make it right. It's abusive and makes both of them look incredibly bad. Like, no matter how good the information exyle sometimes puts out, I just can't take the guy seriously knowing that he literally devalues this entire platform with his abusive behavior.

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markkujantunen (74) · 5 years ago

Steem currently has a circa 8.6% annual inflation. If a Steem Power holder is not entitled to any more than the 1.6% APR afforded to SP holders by the chain and no more by virtue of merely holding SP, it will be very hard to persuade anyone to power up their investment. It is much better for an investor looking for the best possible ROI to keep everything liquid to be able to time their trades optimally. It is good to remember that investors are absolutely vital. Without them our rewards might as well be Monopoly money.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

10x self-voting is around 20-25% + 1.6% APR. If those hodlers you are referring to are siphoning away the value of our token through abusive behavior then our rewards might as well become Monopoly money if more of them join the platform and follow suit.

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

Voted for

50-60%

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akdx (66) · 5 years ago

Voted for

50-60%

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jeffjagoe (72) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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abbak7 (68) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

So someone who self-votes 10x a day isn't an abuser?

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abbak7 (68) · 5 years ago

And you mean if they only do it only once a day is not abuse? I have always wandered why that option even existed...and I didn't see anywhere in the white/blue paper saying that 10x a day is abuse...

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Exactly. Just because it isn't in the whitepaper it doesn't make it right.

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abbak7 (68) · 5 years ago

I didn't say it was right...it's not,and it should have never been an option,but it is...and I don't find it right that some people should enforce it on others..

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

You implied it by saying it wasn't mentioned in the whitepaper as abuse. Enforce what? Sorry, I don't get where you are going with this.

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abbak7 (68) · 5 years ago

By enforce it I meant to say that we can't tell someone don't upvote urself 10x...

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago (edited)

Right. I disagree. Having the chance to express our disagreement with such abuse is actually great and I don't see anything wrong in countering rampant self-voting with flags. In fact, I think we should have much more of that here and that's exactly what's going to happen when we get some daily free flags with HF 21.

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loler555 (58) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

So someone who self-votes 10x a day isn't an abuser?

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loler555 (58) · 5 years ago

No, but that wasn't the question... If I vote quality posts from myself I believe it is normal. Why not give yourself the 0.002 steem?

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Can you be more specific then? How many self-votes per day is not abuse? one? two? five?

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loler555 (58) · 5 years ago

It's not about the quantity of the votes. I think as far as you post quality content you are perfectly fine with self voting.

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wakeupkitty (75) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

I do not self vote only did few times via the partiko points I earned. I also do not know how to do it. If you earn and invest it in.yourself it is not abuse. Every businessman does so.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

Wait, what? You don't know how to self-vote? I guess haejin is the best businessman Steem has ever seen then, right? :D

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wakeupkitty (75) · 5 years ago

No I don't. To be honest the main thing I do (always did) is write, read, comment and upvote.

Hawkins posts I saw, the one with the unclear pictures and it is not clear to me what I am looking at.

What I miss most here is explanations.
Most content is written for insiders, how about those who are new or...?

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dpoll.curation (59) · 5 years ago

Thanks for contributing to the dPoll content.

You have been upvoted from our community curation account (@dpoll.curation) in courtesy of This Guy... @bluerobo.

Come, join our community at dPoll discord server.

^{If you want to support dPoll curation, you can also delegate some steem power. Quick steem connect links to delegate:

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crypticat (70) · 5 years ago

Self-votes are fine. Unless you're asking for votes from others in return for nothing, then it's just selfish. It's my Steem, I can do whatever I want with it.

Now spamming crappy posts to upvote and upvoting your comments is something I disagree with. But I can simply block those users.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

So, if someone makes sweet-ass content and 10x's himself it's fine? That's a different way to think about it.

This is exactly why I made this poll. Absolutely everyone has their own opinion on this which in most cases differs from others.

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crypticat (70) · 5 years ago

Yeah why not, if someone wants to spend 10 or 20k to buy Steem, power up, post quality stuff ten times a day and upvote their own content power to them, that's cool. I think it's great for demand.

Why attack them or be upset about it? It's great. Unless you've never sold Steem before I can't understand your argument.

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

I made no argument. Just wanted to see your point of view. I agree with you on the part of it being great for the demand for Steem but still, if I saw someone 10x a day, no matter how good the content is I would still consider that he/she is spamming in order to 10x i.e. abusing - at least in my opinion.

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crypticat (70) · 5 years ago

Not arguing, just conversating. One thing I don't like is circle-jerking where everyone has the same opinion and view point.

An author can always post once or twice a day and just vote trade. Posting 10 quality posts a day would be very time consuming. One would have to have 5 to 10 accounts just to make them relevant and not be a spammer.

To write 10 decent posts and manage a network would be a full-time job. for someone in Canada, they would want to make at least $120 a day from it. That would require an investment of a hundred thousand dollars to buy 500k Steem. If anyone is willing to do that, I say go for it!

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crypticat (70) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

i feel that question is a bit confusing :D is 100% using your 10 votes a day all on yourself, or 1 vote of 100%

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runicar (72) · 5 years ago

100% in this case would be giving yourself 10 votes per day

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maxer27 (64) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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pollingstation (40) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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gabrielatravels (67) · 5 years ago

I don't really take it as a percentage but actually how often you are self voting your posts :)

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xplosive (62) · 5 years ago

Voted for

20-30%

One option is missing on this poll:
Self-upvotes are abuse at any percent.
Steem should not have the self-upvoting feature.
Many people are only self-upvoting, many people are focusing only on their own blog posts, but they don't care about other people's posts, and this ruins Steemit (and the majority of the Steem blockchain with it).
The self-upvoting should be completely stopped.
Without the self-upvoting feature, the Steem blockchain could be a better place.
Everyone could have only one account, and the selfish and greedy people would
just leave the Steem blockchain.
The whole Steem blockchain would more better (more social interactions) without the self-upvoting feature.
Everyone should avoid self-upvoting, and we should upvote each other to make it a better and real social blockchain, where the real, human interaction is not rare, but an every day, normal thing.
I stopped self-upvoting on 2018.03.20, because I realized this.

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arcange (73) · 5 years ago (edited)

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akomoajong (66) · 5 years ago

Voted for

self-votes aren't abuse!

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steem-ua (64) · 5 years ago

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