Is taxation theft?

jimbobbill (62) in dsound • 6 years ago (edited)

Sharing my thoughts about a conversation I had with colleagues today about whether taxation was theft.

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6 years ago by jimbobbill (62)

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lyndsaybowes (71) · 6 years ago

That was great to hear you speaking, and the rain in the background made it a really wonderful recording. Definitely do this more often Jim! Cool.

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2 votes

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jimbobbill (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

Thanks Lynds. It was easier than I thought getting the recording from my watch onto dsound so might record my thoughts more often. Stay safe

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2 votes

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deanlogic (61) · 6 years ago

robbery : he action of taking property unlawfully from a person or place by force or threat of force.

stealing : take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

theft: the action or crime of stealing.

Income tax is against the US Constitution. Owning property is an unalienable right. Just because they made a law to legalize taking income tax, doesn't make it right.

Now, if you take out "unlawfully" and point out that if you do not pay taxes, then they will "by force or threat of force" make you pay taxes, then it is obvious that taxation is robbery.

As you pointed out, we pay taxes that were there is no intention of the government to provide a return back to the tax payer. We are required, by threat of force, to pay those taxes. Having a law to hide wrong doing, doesn't make it right. i.e. slavery was legal

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1 vote

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jimbobbill (62) · 6 years ago

Thanks for listening and for the great comment. I will use some points from it when I continue to defend my position tomorrow in work.

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ssg-community (68) · 6 years ago

Thank you for your continued support of SteemSilverGold

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deanlogic (61) · 6 years ago

I wish dSound and dTube had play inside of the page.

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jimbobbill (62) · 6 years ago

Me too. I'd like to be able to leave short voice message comments instead of text like I do on Whats App

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3 votes

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steem-plus (73) · 6 years ago

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steemitboard (66) · 6 years ago

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valued-customer (67) · 6 years ago

Kinda sad how people get such cognitive dissonance regarding authority. Logic is completely out the window when people are willing to be property.

Thanks!

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jimbobbill (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

I was quite astounded by it to be honest. By the end of the conversation I was being told that there were no such thing as property rights and that I didn't even own my own body and therefore couldn't have something taken from me that I didn't own. I even asked if I would own something I made out of wood from a tree I cut down and was asked what gave me the right to cut down the tree and who owned the tree in the first place.

The concept is pretty simple in my mind but by the end I was starting to doubt myself. I need to have better counterarguments but it's difficult when people come up with circular arguments or start talking about laws as it theft isn't theft if there is a law that says it's not. A social contract was mentioned too that I don't remember signing ;-)

I spent a bit of time last night reading more into this so I could continue to argue my point but like you said, it's hard when people ignore logic and reason. How do I argue with people who rather than acknowledge that taking something from someone without their consent is theft, prefer to deny ownership rights entirely, even over our own bodies.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and reply and thanks also for the beneficiary rewards !!

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12 votes

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valued-customer (67) · 6 years ago

You demonstrated long ago to me that you are worthy of any benefit I could deliver to you.

As to the folks you're debating, it is important to remember that people are wired biologically to be members of groups. Research has shown that denying facts that negatively relate to one's group delivers a dopamine hit - just like taking a hit off a crack pipe - and that it takes a huge motivation to abandon such an addiction, and that this also depends on the intellectual ability of the person.

Some folks just aren't capable of grasping reason or particular facts, and many, many more are rewarded psychologically for ignoring them on purpose so much that no mere rational argument has any potential to change their allegiences.

Further, the sorts of social manipulation such populations undertake to protect their groups can be pretty hazardous. I urge you to give thought to whether it is beneficial to even try to discuss some things with some people, as it sure isn't sometimes. There's no reason to try to teach a pig to fly, after all. I'm sure you have better things to do, and there are folks that just don't know what's true, or may be willing and able to be reasonable when given the chance.

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6 votes

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minnowsupport (70) · 6 years ago

Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by jimbobbill from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, someguy123, neoxian, followbtcnews, and netuoso. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows. Please find us at the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.

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