Madeira Portugal - Travel video ¦ SJCAM Sj5000x Elite - GoPro alternative

isnochys (66) · 5 years ago

bid bot abuse @steemflagrewards

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

That's a bit rude @isnochys, isn't it?
I mean I'm not denying trying to promote my work (like almost any other post on the trending page), but I haven't used any bid bot to do so.

Also, I thought it was supposed to be about voting based on the quality of the content... and not based on whether or not you promote it or not

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theycallmedan (75) · 5 years ago

All of the large stake based votes are from bots. Stacking large paid votes underminds organic curation. On #NewSteem stacking large paid votes is frowned upon. When you used paid votes that offer ROI, nothing is "free" that ROI comes off the backs of every other user. We SHARE an award pool, that means only so much $$ can be used to upote content. So when you stacked paid votes, not only does it destroy organic curation, but also makes everyone else rewards go down.
Now, I hope you see why stacking paid votes that offer ROI is bad for Steem. On your next post I recommend either trying your luck at organic curation (I make a weekly post and try to check every comment) or if you feel the need to promote please consider burning the author rewards, that way you won't get downvoted and you'll get the exposure you are after.
I left a smaller than usually DV for this abuse, because I can see you are not aware. However, please consider this a warning for any future bid bot abuse.

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5 votes

dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

First of all thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. I haven't been around for the last couple of months and apparently things have changed.
Nevertheless I find the general reaction a bit inappropriate. I mean, there seem to be so much hate going around. Those downvotes came so fast, probably most of them didn't even took a look at my content...
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm still figuring out the new system), but by downvoting aren't you making the reward pool even smaller?

Anyway, at the end of the day I think we all want the same thing. We all want steem to grow and to develop. We're all talking about making steem appealing to the masses, more mainstream, and yet, if you look at the popular posts they're all about projects, great projects, but still projects nonetheless. My point is that projects don't attract the masses, mainstream stuff attracts the masses.

So, yes I did promote my travel video in order to get it where people can see it. Let's face it, we all know there are very slim changes of new users seeing your content if you're not promoting it.
I honestly didn't think it would harm anyone. I even looked for a service that explicitly said they've switched manual curation.

I'm having trouble seeing how this kind of attitude is helping the community. I'm feeling bullied after putting a lot of work in my travel video and wanting to share it with as many people as I can.
But what do I know? I'm just the average user...

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katharsisdrill (71) · 5 years ago

The steem are returned to the reward pool when people downvote.

I do not think the downvotes here are meant in any way hateful. It is more like cleaning the trending page of bought votes. I agree that it would be good for onboarding people on the platform if the content of the trending page showed more diversity and something that non-tech people could mirror themselves in. Art, travel, daily life. But by promoting your post with bought votes I think you kind of contradicts yourself. Should people go to a trending page where not the best content, but the user who pays the most is represented? I understand that you didn't know, and hope you aren't scared off by the downvotes. The community is simply trying to turn things around.

I did see the video by the way! Fine editing.

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

Doesn't downvoting everything that was promoted, regardless of the content or quality, defeat the purpose?
Shouldn't there be a filter of some sort? Maybe it's a good thing that some of those posts are there and the only way (for now) to get them there is promoting them.

I mean even though I can see your point, it's kind of contradicting...

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katharsisdrill (71) · 5 years ago

The promotion business is not an official Steem service and it doesn't add anything to the community. It was from the beginning a way to game the steem system and exploit it, and because steem was founded in ultra libertarian principles people was very much in doubt about how to judge them. Was it free enterprises filling a niche product or was it a smart leach trick that would eat Steemit as fires are eating the Amazonas. Sadly it is obviously the latter.

I am all for a promotion system so people who want to have their posts seen could pay for that. Maybe the money could be burned, maybe something else that would benefit the community and make the competition for the best post to be on top a reality.

I would gladly upvote a post like your's if it didn't use bidbots. I didn't downvote as you are already having a loss, but I do regret all the Steem you sent to those cynical bidbots owners who is cashing out all the time sending the steem down and down again.

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

I'm not sure how exactly the bots are bringing the Steem price down, but that's beside the point.

"I would gladly upvote a post like your's if it didn't use bidbots."

If it weren't for the bidbots you haven't have seen my post...

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steemflagrewards (69) · 5 years ago

Steem Flag Rewards mention comment has been approved for SFR Token Issuance!

Tokens will be transferrred when the flagged content reaches payout.

Thank you for reporting this abuse, @isnochys.

bid bot abuse
You bought votes to increase the rewards of your post above the value of its content.

This post was submitted via our Discord Community channel. Check us out on the following link!
SFR Discord

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exhaust (61) · 5 years ago

Cool video. Looks like a fun trip.

Shame you're getting downvoted. Seems like people here only appreciate announcements from projects or hearing the same old "why I curate" comments from large-stakeholders.

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katharsisdrill (71) · 5 years ago

All posts on the trending who use bidbots are being downvoted. Look here: https://steemwhales.com/clean-trending/

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exhaust (61) · 5 years ago

I understand that. I just don't fully agree with it as a blanket rule.

I'd rather see this video up here, than another slew of project announcements (which strikes me as projects getting paid to advertise updates to their project, rather than the opposite -- paying to advertise).

Guess I was just getting tired of only seeing posts from Steem-engine (getting rewarded for throwing an advertisement at our eyeballs about their project that is now starting to get revenue from advertisements -- because realistically, you should pay to advertise rather than get paid) or Exyle (getting rewarded for talking about how he graciously distributes rewards, all wrapped up in an entire wall of single sentence paragraphs).

Feels like people are losing the idea that this is supposed to be social media, rather than corporate or large-stakeholder media.

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katharsisdrill (71) · 5 years ago (edited)

How would you not use it as a blanket rule? I haven't downvoted this post because I could see he had enough of them, and hopefully he will see that after the hardfork 50% of the money is returned to the bibods which makes using them an even worse deal. He pays loads of steem to the bidbots who wreck this platform and his reward after they have their share is minimal - at the same time he prevents organic curating by playing their game, and what does he get? - he earns 10 steem (minus downvotes) they earn 200 which are used to make all the projects you don't like on the trending page! I hate going after the junkies and not the pushers, but that is the only way to turn things around here. Paying for votes completely destroys the principle of a social media, not downvoting.

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exhaust (61) · 5 years ago

I hear you. I wasn't trying to suggest that I'm in favor of people using bid-bots, but I understand why they use them. I do understand that they undermine honest voting and natural content discovery -- but I would also argue that stake-based voting does the same thing, yet it's being applauded and praised.

(Also -- I never said that I don't like the projects. I think many of them are interesting and exciting. I'm just not super keen on the big advertisement posts they pump out that they then get rewarded for.)

I hate going after the junkies and not the pushers, but that is the only way to turn things around here.

This is a great analogy, and summarizes my feelings pretty nicely, I think. However, I'd suggest that no, it's not the only way to turn things around. In fact, I doubt there will ever be any effective form of proof of brain (or honest curation / voting / content-discovery or whatever term you prefer), until people make as much of a fuss about stake-based voting as they did / do about bid-bot usage. To me, they seem to be two problems that are very much linked together.

Maybe it'll end up that trying to tie token-distribution to content-value is a non-started. I have a hard time thinking that people will ever agree on what they think is bringing 'value' to any table. People have different tastes and different interests.

Maybe it WILL morph into a 1-account:1-vote system, and people wont have to consider using bid-bot services. Their content would get rewards proportional to the number of people that like it, rather than trying to get the attention of a whale.

Maybe it'll morph into a system more like what's being developed on D.Tube where your VotingPower accumulates over time, and anyone is able to give out a whale-sized vote after enough time -- giving them the power to help something get trending more quickly.

Maybe it'll morph into a system where all inflation is paid out evenly to everyone, and you can tip/spend as you please -- and people can stop fussing about what other people are creating and/or earning.

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katharsisdrill (71) · 5 years ago

I agree completely. Proof of stake is dodgy to say the least. The most wealthy is not necessarily the one who should decide what is quality... but here we are in a system that sort of works. I was about to give up and cash out, when this new fork gave some positive vibes back and now I am fighting the old fight against the people who tries to game the system.

I have no idea how a good social media will work? Right now Facebook is more abusive than any other alternative :) So I stick around and I honestly don't mean any real content curators any harm.

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

While I partly agree with both of you, let say something from the perspective of the average user, because in my opinion this what this platform needs. It needs users that create content and in order to attract that kind of users, there needs to be a compensation for their work.
Wright now I'm seeing projects and contests, but not many content creators. So there's little reason for the average user to come back and scroll the news feed, like one would do on YouTube or Facebook.

Still the average user decides to share his original content with the community. He does that a couple of times with little to none compensation. So after a few failed attempts, he considered promoting (through the manual curation services of a steem witness I believe) in order to get noticed.
But shortly after doing so he's being bullied from people with no interest whatsoever about the content (or the hard work behind it) simply because the "newsteem" frowns upon promoting.
3 months ago the "oldsteem" actually had a promotion uption.

Now what do you think the average user would do?
Would he continue investing time in reading the new rules (which may change again anytime) or simply feel pushed away and move to another platform?

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago (edited)

Thank you @exhaust!
I'm trying focus on the positive upvotes I get.
And I totally agree about that last part.

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fjjrg (78) · 5 years ago

Beautifull. Greats

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

Thank you @fjjrg!

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hafizz (58) · 5 years ago

very beautiful photos, are you a photographer

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

Thank you @hafizz!
No, I'm not a photographer, I'm an engineer and doing this as a hobby :)

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pokerbjj (4) · 5 years ago

Thank´s for sharing

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dragraff (65) · 5 years ago

My pleasure :)

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