Dear Bernie Sanders. You missed one... Whaletank Announcement is on EOStalk.io

lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

I'll chime in merely to echo the sentiments of others: "Huh?"

If both sides, or at least the flagging side, would lay out their positions it would be beneficial to all. If either side is looking to affect public opinion, which does affect reality, it's tough to do it when we can't tell what's going on to make a judgment.

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art-universe (68) · 7 years ago

BUT I SHILL FOR DAN :-D

Do you want to see the full image? Click it!

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5 votes

elgeko (73) · 7 years ago

more respect plZZZ

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saimegh (60) · 7 years ago (edited)

Where are you from @elgeko n y the fuck you are insulting my God . Stop posting stupid editing pics

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max-infeld (54) · 7 years ago

I'm soo confused why my post got downvoted. Why is it such a threat to @berniesanders ? Just tryin' to help out the community! https://steemit.com/eos/@max-infeld/get-your-chestahedron-on-vector-kit-for-eos-fans

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4 votes

valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

Best I can figger is that @dan is flagging @berniesanders, so @berniesanders flagged you in order to force @dan to counter the flag, and wear out his VP.

You, and your post, are but collateral damage to @berniesanders. IMHO.

He's, I believe, trying to use you as a weapon against @dan. More than that I neither know, nor can conjecture.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yeh if that is the strategy he must really misread the situation (lol)

Not sure how I am used as a weapon against Dan. The guy is sitting here calling me a nobody shill while at the very same time he considers me a weapon against Dan? Purest of insanity if this is the case, but can't rule it out (obviously) :P

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martie7 (62) · 7 years ago

when Dan flagged Bernie? Please, give a link.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

@akrid is on it ^

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

Just look at @berniesander's profile, and you will see many flags from @dan.

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pathforger (56) · 7 years ago (edited)

What I see when I look at his profile... is a LOT of accounts upvoting by 10% - many with the 'nextgencrypto' or similar monicker.

Is this what a Sybil attack (or does this count as defense?) looks like?

(P.S. I will get around to 'it' - I just want to do it right. ^_^)

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago (edited)

Did you not see the flags from @dan? I assure you I am not making it up!

Many of those accounts you note upvotes from are likely the same person, or his bots, as @berniesanders.

"Is this what a Sybil attack (or does this count as defense?) looks like?"

Yes, and yes. @berniesanders is able to extract rewards from the pool to increase his own holdings of SP through selfvotes. I consider this a 'Slowride' Sybil attack, as it slowly builds SP by extracting it from the rewards pool (it is an attack on Steemit as it decreases the rewards available through nominal curation). Since he has spread his SP into various accounts, he does so from those accounts as well, however, I am unaware that in normal circumstances he does so.

In this case, he is countering the flags @dan has thrown at him, so it is defensive.

@berniesanders does not hold enough SP to control the majority of the witnesses, which would be a 'true' Sybil attack on Steemit. His stake would be likely to be necessary to such an attack, though, so Sybil attacker(s) would seek to buy his, @dan's, @ned's, and etc., in the attempt to acquire enough SP to control the witnesses, and thus the code that Steemit runs.

I hope to demonstrate nominal patience so that 'it' is properly done. I far prefer things well done, if rare, to things common, and cheap. Data Flowers FTW!

Edit: added exposition of 'Slowride' Sybil attack.

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pathforger (56) · 7 years ago

You need not assure me @valued-customer. I could see that the up-votes were closely grouped and that they pushed whatever votes prior to them further back in history.

I am surprised that such can occur and be gotten away with in broad daylight. It gives me cause to pause and think.

Let us suppose that a sybil-conducive mass-multi-account situation comes about and is detected.

Then what?

If there is no consensus on what is to be done about such accounts (such as an ultimatum to transfer their SP to another account by a certain date as the account is to be suspended(with an agreed process of appeal for legitimate accounts mistaken for such (having an unfortunately similar name for instance)))...

...then detection will be simply like knowing you are going to get burgled but have been told that you cannot interfere.

Thank you for your patience @valued-customer. It shall be rewarded in quality.

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jphenderson (66) · 7 years ago

StInc is itself a highly coordinated Sybil attack.... It's a scam and always been a scam... I have a detailed timeline I'm working on that I will be posting on the new chain that's in creation and probably on this one as well though I'm sure they'll bury it with downvotes in the first few minutes.... so much for "censorship resistant". That can't be true when the premine was manipulated to ensure that there was centralized control... https://decentralize.today/the-ugly-truth-behind-steemit-1a525f5e156

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

I reckon that simply having the SP to conduct the attack is no crime. There is no rule or prior sentiment against it. As most of the Steem that exists was mined before Steemit was opened to the public, the holders of it would become quite wealthy by purveying it to the purchaser(s).

Also, since they would have, at that point, sold off the majority (at least) of their Steem, they would no longer be whales, or even on Steemit, so may no longer care.

It is not necessary that a single party undertake control in order for that control to occur. Conspiracies and collusion are practically the order of business when hostile takeovers are conducted, and pooling of capital is no novel technique. The fact is that the control IS presently undertaken through holdings of SP by voters for witnesses. Since, by and large, the accounts holding that SP are the founders of Steem and Steemit, that isn't an attack at all, but management. Also, despite a certain congruence of belief and interests, there is no little divergence of views amongst those account holders (as the mutual flaggotry shows).

So, the only real means the rest of us might have to ascertain that a Sybil attack has been conducted is a) the sudden replacement of code by witnesses, most likely preceded by a wholesale replacement of witnesses by new witnesses, many likely to be new to Steemit, and b) the end of the powerdown period, which the attackers may find desirable so that they can immediately extract their Steem after making the changes to the code necessary to kill or neuter Steemit.

Those most likely to conduct such investment to harm Steemit are it's competitors with deep pockets, such as Zuckerberg, Schmidt, Soros, et al...

They will also probably make some changes that reflect their interests, such as ending free speech by making the blockchain less permanent, setting up some sort of centralized control over content insertion, etc., and may also not kill Steemit but seek to use it (it's success will be the only reason they'd find it beneficial to assume control of, IMHO).

It's likely we'd never know such an attack was being undertaken in advance, as there are many ways of xferring Steem surreptitiously. Perhaps the powering down of substantial SP would predate an attack, but accounts can be xferred, and simply convinced to vote as desired, too, so Steem might never even change hands in the conduct of such an attack.

There is but one way to defend against such an attack, and that is decentralization of VP. Presently concentrating wealth is the means of concentrating VP and this is what potentiates this attack vector. Concentrating wealth is perhaps the most singular feature of capitalism, so this is not some novel technology that would need to be developed to permit a Sybil attack on Steemit.

That one way I have long advocated, and it is to no longer weight VP by SP. The SEC may be able to conduct such a concentration of SP by means other than purchase, and the desecuritization of Steem would also preclude that attack vector.

Sorry if this is a bit obtuse. Up late and early, and the meds/coffee haven't really kicked in yet =p

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Show 8 more replies

officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Good question

Let this be an addition.

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jphenderson (66) · 7 years ago

That is the definition of a Sybil attack... StInc is rife with it... pretty much their business model... I'd be happy to elaborate if you like.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 5 years ago

... and is precisely the reason many have left Steemit for greener pastures. The price of Steem is in the basement for good reason.

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solarsherpa (55) · 7 years ago

Hey @fuzzyvest/@officialfuzzy/@fuzzmuffin, I only know your thru the Hangouts, and I sure do appreciate what you do on these forums.

I'll take someone with a good heart and sincerity any day. And, from those hangouts with the way you talk to people and moderate the hangout, I'll trust my instincts that you have both a good heart and sincerity.

I've seen some of the frustration and anger on here and I wonder if it rears its head more (or louder) because there's actual money at stake here. Or maybe the community is still pretty small so some voices can be louder and hit the HOT / TRENDING page.

I've been on reddit for years and seen lots of anger over there but with only karma at stake it doesn't seem to carry on that long. Or maybe it's just easier to avoid subreddits there.

I also reckon that I'd like @berniesanders (I sure like the real one), @fyrstikken, and many others on here who also appear to stake what they believe in, too. If only there was a way to grab a virtual beer and first agree that we desire so many of the same things (a safe place to live, being able to buy a bike for the kids on their birthdays, having good friends nearby, a tomato just picked from the garden) and the things we don't always agree on are a pretty small sliver of our lives.

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3 votes

officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

In theory that would be great. But telling someone who has people come attack him to have a beer with them afterwards... well in practice is alot worse idea than it sounds in theory.

I never attacked. I only told the truth and Defended...

So I truly appreciate the nice idea but sadly this isnt a circumstance where it makes much sense.

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

"...telling someone who has people come attack him to have a beer with them afterwards... well in practice is alot worse idea than it sounds in theory."

Defense attorneys and DA's do it all the time!

Oh, yeah. That IS worse!

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gduran (69) · 7 years ago

This is why I think this flagging stuff is pure crap, I mean I have never interacted with @officialfuzzy so I don't know what he does, it is completely out of my range of interest, but I don't think he is doing any harm apparently it is the other way he is doing good, so @berniesanders flags him, and then @dan flags bernie, all for what a misunderstanding? And I mean @dan has a lot of power he nullified all of bernies up votes, now I don't agree with @dan in one respect, he started with Bitshares, quit then went with Steem, quit and now EOS, I think he should stick with one thing, that is my opinion, I might be wrong, I still think flagging is dumb though.

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3 votes

officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

i too think flagging is dumb.

it is there only for when people are blatantly abusing the system.

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libert (63) · 7 years ago

It's two edged sword, currently doing more harm than good.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

what was he downvoting?

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gduran (69) · 7 years ago

I fyou are asking about @dan, it was one of Bernies comments.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Dan from what i understand was downvoting bot accounts. Regardless nothing i am doing shoupd be attacked because of this.

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cryptonfused (46) · 7 years ago

Your post does not help anyone and does not add value. You should have done the mature thing and write out a reasonable and transparent post otherwise you are creating environment for questions and more confusion.

It is important to me that you at least do what you promised. I mean @ned already downvoted whaletank (that pays guest speakers well over its earnings)

Is Bernie downvoting minnows for the same reason? Are their posts directly related to whaletanks?
...?...?

I understand sentiment and emotions but understand that this post does not help anyone.

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bukharisulaiman (56) · 7 years ago

Thanks imformations @officalfuzzy.

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barrydutton (74) · 7 years ago

IDK what all this is about but Fuzzy I have always found you very focused and pleasant, in the face of adversity it seems.

We do not talk much but I consistently share things on here and twitter about BTS and EOS and believe basically all of us are here early and there is a cost to that, as well as a benefit.

Bernie is here early too and in that regard, we are all on rockets to the moon.

I want the best for all of us.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

IDK what all this is about but Fuzzy I have always found you very focused and pleasant, in the face of adversity it seems.

I sigh...but in the end I suppose its meant to make me a stronger person (somehow).

We do not talk much

Well join up to our hangouts Barry! Its where BitShares, Steem and Peerplays were Launched and now we are creating more amazing projects for people like you who love helping people!

I want the best for all of us.

I have always talked about "Building Voltron" in our hangouts. This vision always looked like multiple DACs. In fact I always told Dan in these hangouts "We will be mainstream when we see the DPOS based chains littering coinmarketcap's top coins. We are now beginning to see this very thing. I was especially interested in chains working together and creating Synergy...which is where whaleshares, the first crosschain coin service, came from.

One would think I would be appreciated by the whales. Especially the ones milking it with bots :/

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art-universe (68) · 7 years ago

I don't know which fights are going on here, but it seems this goes since a while...

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Never ends...

Im apparently hated 😂

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art-universe (68) · 7 years ago

Sorry to hear that.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

its ok...comes with the territory (apparently). :/

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bashadow (65) · 7 years ago

?hated more than @berniesanders, or @ned, or @dan. Maybe a few people dislike you, I am sure there are a few people you dislike. One thing people need to learn is that people have a right to hangwith,or like who they want, and should not be "hated" because they like someone that the other person hates or despises. Clique's = High School mentality. It is how people with a little bit of power gain more power, set the clique's against each other. Dems vs Reps, Black vs white, Democracy vs communism, christianity vs muslim vs islam vs hinduism. The list goes on forever, keep the hate flowing, and the power will grow. For me personally on one of the eos talk things, someone asked @dan about the small font used, I asked a question noted in my question if it was inappropriate I to the thread I would edit out, instead I got hit with a 52 card down vote by bernie and bots/friends, and no reason given. It did not significant harm to me, but still ticked me off. Two year olds playing with nuclear weapons mentality. They do not "in my opinion" have even a high school clique mentality, just a I got the power and I am going to use it, (even though they are powerless).

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skytrex (59) · 7 years ago

Bernie is just sh1tting on his own investment...
@ fuzzy keep it up!

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tuck-fheman (74) · 7 years ago

"synergy lovers"???

I tried to interact with your organization by making a suggestion and you turned around and used the words "attacking me" like 10x on my posts.

I don't really see any synergy if people can't even ask the leader of a project a question without being accused of attacking him for the next week.

smdh

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uwelang (74) · 7 years ago

Get all a beer together on steemfest, we will raise enough money tomorrow I hope to send you plus @ats-david there, talk to each other, fight and get an agreement on all. Namaste - #Beer rules -talk to you tomorrow on Last Day of our #Beerfest - which is also our German national holiday, unification or something. Have a good one @tuck-fheman and all.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Good guy lang. Try to bring people together. :)

Its at least worth a try.

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uwelang (74) · 7 years ago

My horoscope is libra so I hate people fighting especially the influential ones - not saying all is great on steemit - ideal world, all work together for the success of the platform, includes talking people you hate - I do that every day lol

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ats-david (74) · 7 years ago

Sorry. Not a chance.

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uwelang (74) · 7 years ago

Hmmm - not a chance for Beer, Steemfest or agreeing / talking?

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Your post was trying to talk shit about how "its my responsibility" to vet things (and implying i fail at it or am otherwise complicit in scammers scamming).

I explained that all i do is get attacked by people who dont understand whaletank and why it is meant to be the way it is meant to be. Sadly it tells me u dont listen to our hangouts or really pay much attention anymore.

Of course then again id have to say im unsure since historically multiple people have been tuckfheman...and at least one of them hates me and has attacked me for no reason before. So please dont so this crap.

Ill say it one last time for u to get through your head: these hangouts are open for a reason and the community (like you) are given power to join up and participate in the discussions ...OR post warnings in the rsvp.

So how is it...that in a world where we are trying to move away from central authorities governing us...YOU are advocating i become the central authority???

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tuck-fheman (74) · 7 years ago

I just asked a question.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

are you sure?

Maybe you should spend your time advising those whales on steem who are actually doing the wrong thing.

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spl (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

baleted, reposting on correct account.

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

figured id give you an upvote from a real person...

I feel bad for you man. :/

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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akrid (62) · 7 years ago

It's funny that this all started when dan flagged an account named @danlarimer who was pretending to be him.
bernie admitted to owning that account. I don't understand why he thinks he is the victim.
Am I missing something @berniesanders?

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3 votes

officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

sadly @akrid...you are right.

luckily @akrid...you miss little. ;)

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elgeko (73) · 7 years ago

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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jeffjagoe (72) · 7 years ago

I don't know what a Voltron is but it sure sounds awesome!

If only everyone followed the NAP....

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

So... Ned doesn't like Dan who doesn't like Bernie, who doesn't know fuzzy who likes Dan, but doesn't like fyrstikken, and possibly ned.... Everyone dislikes nog and .. Fuzzy likes Dan, but not Bernie..

And of course we know Fuzzy gives all of his votes out ... because it helps. We know this because he mentions it a Lot. (Also because he obviously does do it and has done a lot of good along the way)

No wonder we don't have soap operas anymore. Who needs them we have "As SteemIt Churns"

Everyone I mentioned above has helped retain users, supported projects and contributed in various ways to the platform. Also, nobody listed above has done so without creating controversy. Everyone above also holds a stake in this investment.

As fun as this is to read... You are embarrassing yourselves and the entire platform.

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siddartha (63) · 7 years ago

@berniesanders, I respect you a lot, because you try to keep this place free from garbage. But why attack Fuzzy? If you have issues with Dan, then go fuck him. When Ned downvoted fuzzy, then fuzzy didn't go around downvoting Ned's friends. And you have even downvoted this post of Fuzzy! As far as I know Fuzzy and you are from starting, then why so bitterness against Fuzzy. You should be supporting Fuzzy's projects! Please fuck who ever you want, but don't demotivate, frighten or harass Fuzzy. Please. 😡 I remember when you saved my ass from noganoo. You are still in good books of many ppl, but downvoting ppl like fuzzy changes that.......

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travelalert (49) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yikes. I looked at what all the fuss is about with berniesanders. And I see that some minnows have the unfortunate affect of getting into the crossfires between him and EOS. I'll make sure not to cross his path.

He's not the REAL Bernie Sanders is he?

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siddartha (63) · 7 years ago

Haha, minnows should definitely not cross his path. No, I don't think he is real Bernie Sanders.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

From what I can tell Fuzzy is calling Bernie out. I don't think Bernie attacked fuzzy at all. In fact isn't fuzzy throwing himself in the arena, by saying HEY you forgot one...

Sigh, silly whales.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Nope.

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charles1 (68) · 7 years ago

Good point raised here ...Fussy I referenced you in my latest post about flag / downvoting war in steemit-feel free to check it out

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davedickeyyall (73) · 7 years ago

I dont understand why someone would attack another person for trying to help us minnows.. everyone needs a little help sometimes..

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elgeko (73) · 7 years ago (edited)

Why the hell is @nextgencryptoo activating dozens of fake accounts just to downvote @dan ?? I don´t get it? I´m not into Steemit politics, but it is sad to see this much lack of respect to @dan. It shows how much respect the people have to the mental founder and technical genious talent creator of Steemit.

🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅 🙅

What shall normal Steemit users make of this ? Is this a long planned attack on the platform itself or just a ridicolous showdown of Steempower with too much Testosteron???

I mean come on show some rescpect please without @dan you wouldnt run randowhale,ecetera and making shitloads of money. I can just shake my head about this inhumane lack of respect.

I don´t get it. Somebody hit me to the line, please!!!

Thank you @officialfuzzy for this honest post !!

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

honestly sorry i have to make it.

I even talked to ned and he seems to be ok with it all.

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alao (64) · 7 years ago

Man shit just got real up in here. I can actually see both sides perspectives on here. @dan upvoted nogo and he down voted you. He needs to think more clearly. I also saw him upvote his own comment $500. He could be using that steem power to good use instead he is flagging people.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

The issue is that I am not @dan. So even though @dan keeps downvoting nextgencrypto (aka bernie sanders) sock puppets, @berniesanders should not attack me.

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rusinho027 (39) · 7 years ago

great post, thx for sharing!

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Well at least i know u arent one of bernies sock puppets!

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jefpatat (64) · 7 years ago

I understand very little of this all. It reads like Game of Thrones. I sure hope to only have to watch it and not be part of it.

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eolandananni (9) · 7 years ago

@officialfuzzy thnx for putting this information all with each other..

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progressivechef (76) · 7 years ago

What's the hell is going on man? Why can't we have some peace and love like it's supposed to be here on steemit?
It is these types of fights/downvoting that make many people leave this platform.
Wish everyone puts their ego on side and work together for a better tomorrow for all of us, for humanity!

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nutela (61) · 7 years ago

Dear Voltron and Synergy Lovers: Our EOStalk Discord

The invite is expired @officialfuzzy

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sabalinet (8) · 7 years ago

@officialfuzzy This demands somewhat more time and energy to Consider in excess of. Wonderful you provide it from a unique angle. Mhhh not really easy... and it had been previously Very hard. Many thanks for allow us to Consider.

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eric4prez (33) · 7 years ago

Oooo i love me a good flag war!!! All hands on deck 🇨🇦

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saeedshaikh (42) · 7 years ago

I truly price this splendid post you've got accommodated United States of America. I guarantee this could be advantageous for an outsized portion of the overall population.

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karensuestudios (71) · 7 years ago

ugh how terrible. I'm so sorry this happened. Hope the down-voting war can end soon.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Wars generally have two sides fighting. This one is more like raping and pillaging a village.

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karensuestudios (71) · 7 years ago

ugh this is horrible. :( how can you stop it? Or what can any of us do if put in a situation like this?

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vahidrazavi (61) · 7 years ago

Great post if you like it please visit my page and read my post thanks a lot

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angela.ghkh (56) · 7 years ago

keep it on powerfully

dont aware anyone , just go and look at your target ! wish u luck 😊

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rahul72 (0) · 7 years ago

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richforever (59) · 7 years ago

im confused here

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

me too. :O

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richforever (59) · 7 years ago

great post dough.

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a-alice (68) · 7 years ago

^^ Can you please visit my blog? sorry if i make you uncomfortable

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

far better to visit the blogs of whales who are not attacked if you are in this for money.

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nature.art (62) · 7 years ago

Thank you!!!

Enjoy @nature.art, be curious!

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luvabi (61) · 7 years ago

Now with that said...

I am hearing your post in my head with your voice from whaletank/hangouts.

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dawnasheelagh (4) · 7 years ago

@officialfuzzy The online market place is a wonderful industry for truth of the matter and lies. Now it is actually quite challenging to acknowledge where by the reality is.

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fady2017 (9) · 7 years ago

Great. Thanks for sharing. I'm starting to follow you.https://steemit.com/@fady2017

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

LOL...you bots.

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

P.S. bernie. I will never downvote people just because they help someone i dislike.

Look at my record.

Also if u want to talk about me being a "nobody" shill...id urge u to read...which im so certain you didnt do...

"Shills" in this industry are quite a bit wealthier than i am...because they promote tech we generally refused to cover.

So i guess i must have known something you didnt when i was "shilling" for a guy for whom shilling had an opportubity cost of millions (not investing in or supporting eth)

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yep. You see me begging...

But not for u to have the vision to create synergies betweem chains to make everyone wealthier. Im begging u to leave people alone who have nothing to do with u.

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

You're pathetic.

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officialfuzzy (75) · 7 years ago

Odd...it doesnt really effect dan that you downvote a bunch of minnows.

Who exactly does it effect?

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berniesanders (77) · 7 years ago

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