Ethics VS Aesthetics - How to stop arguing & unite people to create a free society

in ethics •  7 years ago 

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ethics: moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

aesthetics: a particular individual’s set of ideas about style and taste, along with its expression.

Freedom is what you have when no one is forcing their will on you. In other words, when no one is doing something unethical to you or in violation of your person or property. A libertarian is someone who opposes the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals. In other words, a libertarian is someone who believes in an ethical society. The application of these principles is often thought to lead to a set of political positions: pro-gun, anti-welfare, pro-drugs, anti-militarism, etc. However, it seems that we, as a movement, have been fooled into confusing ethics with aesthetics. Untangling this confusion will make it much easier to win people over to embracing ethics ... when we stop trying to convince them that our aesthetics are correct.

Here I am using the definition of aesthetics above, or more specifically in the political context, of how someone wants society to LOOK. For examples, let's start with the big issues of guns and drugs. Some would say that the libertarian philosophy must be pro-gun and pro-drug because we want people to have those freedoms. Unfortunately, this allowance of aesthetics into the conversation has us playing the same old game of politics and making things unnecessarily complicated.

Libertarianism itself is neither pro-gun or anti-gun. It is simply a consistent application of ethics to the issue. For example, if I want to own a gun on my own property, it would be unethical to interfere with my right to do so. Similarly, if someone wanted to ban guns on their property, it would be unethical of me to interfere with their right to do so. This can even be taken to the next level where if a group of people form a community based on voluntary agreements founded in private property rights and choose to ban guns in their community, it would be unethical of me to interfere with their right to do so. With drugs, it's even more obvious. The ethical (libertarian) position is to respect the right of an individual to do whatever they want with their body and their property and NOT use drugs as an excuse to violate that right. If people want to voluntarily create a community where drugs aren't allowed ... well ... I'm not going to any of their parties! But I'm also not going to force drugs into their communities.

Are you starting to get the point? How we want society to look is not the same as holding firm to the principle that it must be done ETHICALLY! When libertarians argue issues, we lose. We lose because we are violating our own principles and playing central planners. When a libertarian says, "welfare is bad because of XYZ," they are saying that you must agree with their AESTHETIC preferences or else you're wrong. A more libertarian statement on welfare would be, "It's great when people help out those in need and I totally support your right to do that so long as you don't force your preferences on anyone else."

Oftentimes libertarians are tempted to play politics issue by issue and while we make good points, we are missing the opportunity to be accepting of other people's aesthetic preferences and win them over to embracing ethics. I've certainly been ... less than perfect about this in the past, but this is what I am focusing on now. I see this personal maturation mirroring a maturation of our movement as a whole. When we want to bring people to the message, we should stay as true to the message as possible. Watering it down or confusing the ethics with the aesthetics only confuses people, pushes them away, and reinforces the current paradigm of arguing aesthetics in order to compete in forcing our preferences on others. How very unlibertarian!

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Government killed Jesus. Government killed Socrates. Government did the Holocaust. Government did the Trail of Tears.

Definitely, ethics and aesthetics are different terms. Matters become complicated when people mix these things. You excellently made clear what is legal and what is ethical.
Obviously, everything legal cannot be said ethical. For an example child marriage is still allowed in some parts of the world, which is legal in those parts but it cannot be said ethical as child marriage is very bad for the health of the children.
I think without ethical behavior nothing can make this world a happy place for us, not matter how strong our legal system is. Legal system reduces our freedom while ethical behavior makes us free.
Thanks.

Spot on! Though, there are some who posit that one's ethics are a derivation of the existing laws.

you had child marriage backwards. though child marriage may be illegal or legal it is ethical as it does not harm anyone or violate their property

Are you saying child (any age restriction here?) doesn't harm anyone? Just clarifying before I comment.....

I am saying 2 children getting married voluntarily would not harm anyone, but if two parents forced those to kids to get married that would be unethical.

again. Any age restriction? And as long as we are at it, are there any other restrictions on what parents might coerce children into? When kids are involved, libertarianism does create some dilemmas. GO CLEAN YOUR ROOM, BOY!!!!

no you should not force a child to marry, if that child is voluntarily getting married there is nothing wrong with that. I agree that the child would need parental consent to marry.

Incorrect. You have swapped "aesthetics" for moral subjectivity. This is a truism: ethics is as inseparable from aesthetic as religion. For "truth is beauty and beauty truth; that is all ye need to know and all ye can know."

People has the right to do what they want to do but when that is totally allowed it will still end up making things go wrong, and the reverse will also result to same thing. To me I think trying to unit people to create a free society is fiction.
Thanks for sharing

I strongly support you in this change
the voice of the people fully supports you

well said, nobody will never be free 100% as I really believe because there is always somebody who watches you or talk about you, I t could be family or friends or old friends or even somebody you dont even know.
I just want to get out of here and be somewhere where nobody know me.

Where do you have in mind? Mars?

We should keep ourselves away from arguments, silence is the best answer for a fool, if anybody try to mess with you, keep silent and leave. I think this is the only solution.

won't work in a rape situation, darlin'......

This has followed me around most of my adult life, as I might have easily been labeled a "pro-life libertarian". So many socialists immediately interpreted that to mean "You have unlimited individual liberty except for when it comes to my personal hotbutton issue". On the contrary, I believe the less federal gov't the better in all matters! The way to overturn Roe v. Wade is not a federal ban on abortion- it is to leave the decision to the states or the people thereof. I also think that the personhood of the unborn individual should be emphasized and respected, but not federalized! Talking with statists, it is hard to avoid violent dichotomies- it is all they've ever known. The way of peace they do not know....

The issue we face in the abortion question is MURDER. Is this killing actually the crime of pre-meditated murder? And you are correct. Murder issues are dealt with at the state level, orginating in the District Court. Adam's "Split 50!" plan resolves this crap, once and for all.

This is crucial perspective for massive alignments!
Just to play a bit of angel's advocate though, what happens in the case of your gun agreements when some people disagree that one can own property? What are your personal aesthtics on owning property?

you have the right to own land, it does not harm anyone or violate their property or their "nest" so to speak

So it's first come first serve? How much property is acceptable to "own" before it does potentially cause harm? What if the people who "own" the property upstream from you decide to dump toxic waste in the water because it's theirs? What about potential reparations to the indigenous Turtle Island tribes? I'm not disagreeing with anything here... These are just the questions that come up for me that I would love assistance in when envisioning the shift.

so what would be your solution?

Well, I always attempt to use clear communication first. But if that doesn't work, not sure I have an answer in speculation yet. That's why I enjoy bouncing these inquiries off of intelligent folks such as yourselves. You have any ideas?
I have to admit that, while I love the premise of anarchy and voluntaryism and agree with them ethically, there's still a part of me that resists the complete release of "governance". It's a curious mental predicament I find myself in, and I'm excited to find the pieces that reconcile my thoughts.

I just think if we are to look for a solution we should look for a non-violent one. If you have to use violence against a peaceful person to achieve a specific goal, then that is wrong and should be opposed.

good topic mr @adamkokesh
Ethics VS Aesthetics - How to stop arguing & unite people to create a free society

**Ethics and aesthetics ** are very important things in our lives (Capital of life)

**Ethics and Aesthetics ** Wholly wholeness in one's life, ethics speaks of what man should do to be "good". While aesthetics talk about what a man should do to be said to be good or rather 'valuable'. The existence of both, about 'good' and 'valuable', has a direct connection between certain principles / concepts that reside within a human being with the environment, which is generated through the actions and choices that present his life. In what direction and what kind of life a person chooses to choose, will manifest in the ethics and aesthetics of his life. The higher one's idealism, the ethics emerging from him along with his choices on certain aesthetics will be clearly embellished in his life's journey and state the circumstances of one's soul. An upbringing and honorable ethical teachings will bring about a good attitude. As he directs his life on the great, valuable, possessing of high quality standards, then whether consciously or unconsciously, he will in his journey lead to a way of life that leads to an ethical greatness. Then aesthetically, he will not fill his life journey with things that do not
I think personally to unite orand and create a free society is to equate life (there is no distinction between the poor and the rich) to create and maintain social theetypes, then a government that executes authority based on social contracts and public will. In other words, human beings at first live in a peaceful and harmonious atmosphere, but once the institution of property rights in society is introduced, the tibul inequality within, Where the rich dominate the poor. From there emerged a government based on the general desire to create social order and bring the society back to peaceful and harmonious, because it is impossible to be able to recreate the natural freedom.
Little comment from my view@adamkokesh
Thanks for this

Imo the first step to unity is getting rid of labels of all sorts. No idea how yet but seperation always caused violence in a long run.

This is very true and helpful.... awesome

very nice.
please support me

Adam, you've been doing great job staying on volunteerism point in your videos. It's just hard not to get sucked into the political debates. Just like on the 911 debate, I have to stick to facts that I know as an engineer and stay away from the "why would they have done that" debate with others. It's not easy.