HOW TO FIX STEEMIT

steem-bounty (72) · 5 years ago

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15 votes

sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago

I think, we need some content insignificant mass appealing app, that can reward real participants. For example, a review app, that could take all amzon reviews out of amazon and reward the reviewers, who give better review ( in the form of curation).

enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

They have that in @steemhunt, but it's often plagued with people saying stuff in comment section just to receive free votes from the dapp. And, I haven't really found anything worth reading there.

I know @knowledges has an entire tribe dedicated to that called Reality Hubs.

It's still on the Steem blockchain, but that frontend only displays product reviews. Ask him for more details.

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4 votes

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Eh, I'm not sure. Can you make an app that lets you watch 3speak and or d.tube on Roku?

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sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago

No, I can't.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Maybe... http://www.instanttvchannel.com/roku/quick ?

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7 votes

valued-customer (67) · 5 years ago (edited)

Okies, well I disagree that flags can be simply eliminated. They're broken, but nonetheless flags are necessary. I also disagree that a user muting should be able to censor the account they're muting. I also disagree that platforms should undertake advertising. I propose instead individuals being able to advertise (this is actually the case presently, although the broken flagging mechanism prevents it's use) but have to share with the platform, reversing the flow of money and putting individuals in the controlling position.

Social media has proven to be the most profitable business model in the world today. Just not how Steem does it, and that does not mean that centralized platforms are the best possible model. The ninjamine prevents Steem from adopting acceptable mechanisms to society that would grow the social media platform. The Huey Long algorithm would obviate profiteering via stake weighting (that's why it is not in effect) and enable rewards to do their job and virally grow the market for Steem.

I'd end curation rewards completely, along with SBD, and remove all limitations and tweaks to VP (other than that it is reduced by use, or decays) while instituting the Huey Long algorithm. I'd also end the Witness and SPS taxes, and simply enable folks to pay for those things with their upvotes.

That's about it.

Thanks!

fredkese (69) · 5 years ago

Seems the problems are many and solutions few. Downvotes is a big problem, but removing it too might bring too many unwanted things. Taking away sbd doesn't sound bad

Posted using Partiko Android

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

What kind of bad things would happen without downvotes? Couldn't we just flag offensive content to be reviewed by the witnesses? At least then we could vote for the witnesses that we agreed with philosophically?

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fredkese (69) · 5 years ago

There's an account on whaleshares that comments on people's posts asking them to mute him, but your solution might work.

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

I think the mute should make both parties invisible to each other.

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fredkese (69) · 5 years ago

Unfortunately it doesn't

culgin (71) · 5 years ago

Here's the main problem with downvotes. Imagine that I start a band, say it's a cover band of some really popular band, then some other cover band that does the same thing as my band gets jealous of my band's growing popularity and gets all of their fans (who happen to have more money) to downvote all of my band's songs, basically making them invisible.

Imagine that steemit gets pretty popular somehow magically and grows to a modest 2 million active users. Now, this isn't very far fetched, just imagine the Chinese government decides it wants to de facto censor any negative comments about communism. They've got the money, they've got the motivation, and thanks to downvotes, they've got the perfect weapon.

Fair point, but that is based on the assumption that there aren't enough good actors to counter the effect of a select few bad actors. Taking your band analogy for example, if your band is popular enough, there should be more upvotes than downvotes (assuming only the enemy band is downvoting you). In addition, the party doing the downvotes is also having a opportunity cost as they could otherwise use upvoted for curation rewards. However, I do agree that the side performing downvotes have a slight advantage after HF21/22 considering there is a free downvote pool. Perhaps it requires further tweaking if there are clear cases of abuse.

As for the case of government funded downvotes, I think it is more about how posts are being discovered on this platform. As it stands, posts with higher rewards are getting more attention thanks to the trending page. But there are active curators that are discovering undervalued posts on a daily basis, counteracting the effect. Besides, there are many other cost effective ways governments can censor content. Using China as an example, their Great Firewall can block any Steem interfaces/API nodes as they please. So if it ever reach the point where governments need to downvote Steem content as part of their censorship, that means Steem has grown to a level far exceeding the current size.

We need to pay people ad sharing revenue for pageviews, fairly and transparently and for way longer than 7 days.

Fully agree to this. I think 7 days reward window is too short to motivate people to create content that are aimed to be far-reaching and long-term. I recently got to know about the Steem Forever service. It aims to reward content beyond the 7 days window. This is one small step forward and I think all Steem interfaces should embrace this approach and reward content beyond 7 days. Ideally, all content should be perpetually open for reward and that should be coded into the blockchain itself.

Ad-revenue sharing will be nice as well and that requires all Steem interfaces to participate. As far as I know, not all interfaces are showing Ads. In addition, I hope that Steem can one day integrate with Basic Attention Token so that content creators can get rewarded with BAT directly.

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago (edited)

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful reply.

Using China as an example, their Great Firewall can block any Steem interfaces/API nodes as they please. So if it ever reach the point where governments need to downvote Steem content as part of their censorship, that means Steem has grown to a level far exceeding the current size.

Actually, China spends a lot of time and money censoring American news programs and movies. The recent story about the NBA getting threatened because someone said "Free Hong Kong" is just the tip of the proverbial ice-berg.

Blizzard corp recently banned a top-ranked-international-player for saying, "Free Hong Kong" in order to appease Chinese censors as well.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Taking your band analogy for example, if your band is popular enough, there should be more upvotes than downvotes (assuming only the enemy band is downvoting you).

That's my whole point. "If my band is popular enough".

What if the other band has 10 times the fan-base?

The downvotes allow (larger/richer) groups to effectively censor any competitors.

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rentmoney (68) · 5 years ago

(2) Then we should give everyone advertising revenue sharing based on PAGE VIEWS, in addition to the upvotes FOREVER, just like youtube and facebook (not just 7 days).

I think the above would spark a small fire under this place. Steemit placed adds up so I think its only right for them to allow us to do the same. Either let us have one add on the header of our main blog profile or one in each of our main topics.

As for what I would do to push Steem forward....... Good ol' fashion grunt work is the answer. Hit the streets and put up signs on the side of the road. Rent space on some billboards ...... The masses have no clue what Steem(it) is or that it even exists for that matter and I would aim to change that.

Get Rid of RC....... This place has become a social media outlet. No-one is going to come here and pay to do things they can do for free on countless other media sites. Pay to play only works if you have a big enough audience that your platform can sustain the loss of customers once you start to make them pay.

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

I think the above would spark a small fire under this place. Steemit placed adds up so I think its only right for them to allow us to do the same. Either let us have one add on the header of our main blog profile or one in each of our main topics.

I agree. We already have the perfect model, youtube!!

It was great before all the secret arbitrary demonetization!!

Rewards based on ad sharing based on views that last forever!

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chireerocks (72) · 5 years ago

@logiczombie, For sure Downvote will going to be a bigger problem when it comes to the Point Of Retention Rate because in a way once again the discussion come towards the Demonetisation by Downvote aspect. Stay blessed.

erh.germany (64) · 5 years ago

I got lost in the comment area...

And to give another form of variance to it :)

As for the behaviour of the system here, I think it's very difficult to call it a lively functioning system. From my point of view, it's not diverse enough in the way the people view and enter this sphere.

Every system regulates itself by growing or decaying. I assume that already at the beginning the necessary conditions for a diverse, multifaceted and species-rich growth did not exist and only a few species emerged. The whole thing reminds me a little of the biosphere project, which failed back then.

Even if people believe that they act according to pure economic principles, they still act rather emotionally, but believe that they act rationally. If emotional impulses meet other emotional impulses, but "think" of themselves as rational, you get a conflict. So the creators and the players made fun of the fact that they created the possibility of placing bots and automatisms between people, which made the whole thing an interaction between man and machine.

Man knows about his limitations, he knows about the unlimited possibilities of the machine. On some days it is certainly the case that the great joker shows you the absurdity, on others it seems to be bitterly serious. People are constantly changing how they look at this system and I think basically nobody really takes it seriously and it is consciously or unconsciously sabotaged. ... At least, I perceive it that way.

The virtuality of money becomes very clear in the Federal Reserve example, which is now becoming common knowledge that money is created out of nothing.

Since we are ourselves temporally limited material objects, permeated by the inexplicable subject, we know that infinity only functions mathematically and can be suspected spiritually, but our earthly existence does not correspond to this infinity on the limited planet Earth. There is therefore something unethical about the infinite multiplication of virtual currency, because it is unable to supply enough to the gullet of matter that is eternally new.

The fact is, therefore, that not all participants in a system will have the virtual money they desire. To renounce this completely voluntarily and to perceive it not as a sacrifice but as a blessing, because money "possesses" the annoying habit that one has to care a lot about it. As you can see here very well, it causes you endless headaches, embarrassment, calculations, considerations, fights and so on. A certain painful joy also seems to be associated with it. It's really hard not to get involved in this extensive interaction and stay with yourself.

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Thank you for your insightful and original reply!

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erh.germany (64) · 5 years ago

You're welcome and thank you. As always, I am late. That's my fate. :)

ritxi (66) · 5 years ago

Hi, great article and good points. It will take time to Steemit have more users, but I am optimistic here. With some more implementations and upgrades, people will find their way to Steemit. At this point, I see it a little bit confusing some things, like having multiple keys and passwords which needs to be stored secretly - that is a problem for many ordinary users of fb. They can lost their password, they can use simple password and if they lose their fb account (or is hacked), they just make a new one. Here, while you have some STEEM / SP / SBD, you need to be more cautious with your data. And that is what most people don't handle.
Also, some kind of a chat (like fb messenger) might be a good thing which could help the UI. There are still some things which need to be done here.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Permanent public file storage seems like a no-brainer to me.

If someone told me, you can post any file permanently and publicly as long as you have enough steem-power, I think steem would be front-page news world-wide.

The password thing is somewhat of a concern, but I'm sure someone could make a front-end password manager that would let people use the passwords they're used to.

And an integrated private chat/mail/message feature would definitely help facilitate commerce.

Thank you for sharing your insightful and original ideas!

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ritxi (66) · 5 years ago

No problem, that is my view.

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

What? Do you think being fair, decentralized and transparent are merely incidental concerns?

Problem is, many people likely don't care about that.

Take the insertion of chips in your hand, for example, it's a huge red flag for you and I. But, for some others, they like the "convenience". https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611884/this-company-embeds-microchips-in-its-employees-and-they-love-it/

Whatever happened to "live and let live"?

The danger comes from overwhelming number of accounts doing the same. The pool is large, but it has limits. Having people gaming that system not only cause sell pressure, but have other potential side effects as well.

Take the whale that has been self-voting for over a year with his 1.4M SP. He was stopped by a collective effort. At one point, he was raking in 2% of the daily rewards. People need to be able to disagree with rewards.

Granted, he sold most of those rewards. Now, imagine a malicious actor with large stake (government or whatever). They retain those rewards and use them as stake to influence witness voting and/or proposal funding. If they want to attack the network, I feel better if they had to brute force buy all their stake versus getting freebies off of the pool with no one to challenge them.

You can instantly dry up liquidity by making all rewards 100% steem-power.

That's why there's a market for services such as @likwid

Steemit Inc has enough market power to stabilize SBD, right?
Why not drop SBD and just use that same market power to stabilize steem instead?

Lots of people have said that SBDs should disappear, but here we are...still have them and they aren't even close to the peg. Instead, they've become some speculative favorites because at 0.60, you know you'll make a profit when we return to the "peg".

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Having people gaming that system not only cause sell pressure, but have other potential side effects as well.

Selling endorsements (upvotes) is a primary use-case for steem. Advertising is the primary source of funding for facebook, youtube, and google.

Punishing people for boosting their visibility is 100% counter-productive!!!

Take the whale that has been self-voting for over a year with his 1.4M SP. He was stopped by a collective effort. At one point, he was raking in 2% of the daily rewards. People need to be able to disagree with rewards.

What moral theory are you defending??

If someone wants to buy 1.4 million steem and power it up, WE NEED TO KISS THAT INVESTOR'S ROTTEN STINKY FEET!!

WE NEED MARKET-CAP. And you don't boost market-cap by CHASING AWAY INVESTORS WILLING TO BUY 1.4 MILLION STEEM AND LOCK IT AWAY (power it up)!!!

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valued-customer (67) · 5 years ago

That investment does not increase price pressure on Steem unless it somehow encourages growth of the market. Self voting provides zero incentive for new users to enter the market. All it does do is transform ninjamined stake into golden parachutes.

eastcore1 (37) · 5 years ago

We need to get rid of all bots and invite investees

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Why though. Why do you think we need to get rid of all bots?

I still haven't heard any sort of coherent moral or economic theory on this proposal.

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eastcore1 (37) · 5 years ago

Not don't create wealth and it robs the system

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

Selling endorsements (upvotes) is a primary use-case for steem. Advertising is the primary source of funding for facebook, youtube, and google.

Except Steem is the only place where advertising fees include ROI. You see why it's being exploited badly before HF21? This is the only place on Earth where you can drop some money, bots promise you 20% return on STEEM within 7 days.

Hence why no good content creators really wanted to use them because all the shitposts being churned out at a rapid rate.

What moral theory are you defending??

What are we defending? The dude was top #1 "author" selling. Add 30 more whales to that list. What do you have? A token with not enough demand. Too many people don't want to be here because all they see is whales wanking themselves. They are selling faster than people can generate value.

That whale didn't build value. He didn't sponsor projects. He didn't delegate to shit. He was here to do "proof of click" mining to cash out the value YOU build from your sorry content.

In fact, I am willing to bet that he wanted to keep things that way so he can have his perpetual money printing machine for his own projects away from Steem while you marvel him as lord of the blockchain.

Steem needs real investors, not profiteers. The current ecosystem can't sustain pure profiteers such as selfish whales or content agnostic "promotional services". Ask @valued-customer all about it.

There are other whales sponsoring communities and projects, those are the investors you need. Not some guy trying to cash out quicker than others are building.

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3 votes

valued-customer (67) · 5 years ago

I was about to substantively quote your comment and point out how much I agree, and then I saw the ping LOL. Apparently I am not alone in grasping how demand is created by markets.

I.. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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eastcore1 (37) · 5 years ago

Yes I believe in a hundred% of what you are saying

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

And FYI, Steemit is just a front end.

It's the Steem Blockchain. Steem =/= Steemit

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kiwisteem (0) · 5 years ago

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Reveal Comment

https://steempeak.com/curation/@lalala/daily-top-voter-2019-10-05

enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

The only person that's pure bullshit lately has been you.

I don't know what happened, but you seem to have went off the deep edge and started to conjure up all sorts of nonsense.

Come on man, you didn't even know how account tickets work. And you are here to dispute stats?

I bet Bernie must be the smartest ass on the chain as he dished out those thousands of flags when he could have voted for himself instead. There were no free flags back then, dude.

Oh yes, you are gonna say "but he has thousands of accounts!" It doesn't matter how many accounts he has. If he was self-voting with <1.4M SP, he was making less than Haejin.

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kiwisteem (0) · 5 years ago (edited)

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

Fair dos.

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ecoinstar (63) · 5 years ago (edited)

Hmm...I'm not convinced that this is a social media platform....but if someone wanted to build one on #steem I bet it would be pretty cool if they did it right.

Most of the problem is that no one seems to know what we are dealing with here. This is the future of #steem

I don't know the specifics about our future, but #steem's next push is not going to look like the last push, signing up our friends one by one.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Step one, steemit needs to decide if it is a publisher or a platform.

A publisher has the tools to edit and censor unpopular and or inappropriate content.

A publisher has legal liability for unpopular and or inappropriate content.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A platform allows anyone to post anything and provides no tools to edit or censor other people's work.

A platform has NO legal liability for unpopular and or inappropriate content.

Each poster is held solely responsible for their own posts.

For example,

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

A platform has NO legal liability for unpopular and or inappropriate content.

Steem is the platform. It holds all content.

A publisher has the tools to edit and censor unpopular and or inappropriate content.

Steemit, just like the tribes and other frontends, actually do "censor" inappropriate content. But, Steemit is bad at what it does since STINC is pretty hands off with it.

Some people have definitely uploaded really bad stuff here in the past.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Thanks again for your insightful and informative replies!

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ecoinstar (63) · 5 years ago (edited)

To add on to what enforcer said, I believe more in the platform than any one publisher. Steemit made clear they would censor with thedarkoverlord episode. But the blockchain holds it all, I believe its all visible on partiko.

Steem is infrastructure. Everything else is addon interface, and very pliable.

themarkymark (78) · 5 years ago

Also, set your rewards to 100% steem power and you'll get a cool steem logo next to all your posts!!

This is bad advice as it will yield you fewer rewards depending on market conditions.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Please explain. I thought you hated liquidity.

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themarkymark (78) · 5 years ago

Not sure where you got that I hated liquidity, I just happened to have powered up most of my stake.

Under current conditions, it is worth doing 100% power up, but that is not always the case. That's why I say it is bad advice to give without clarification.

With 50/50 rewards, Steem will give you 50% in Steem based on the USD value of Steem and 50% in SBD as if SBD was $1 (ignoring market conditions).

If SBD is $2, then you will make 50% less by using 100%.

If SBD is below $1, you will make more using 100% power up.

For example, if your post is worth $10.

You will make $5 of Steem (currently 33.33 Steem) and 5 SBD ($3.55 USD worth or 23.66 Steem) when doing 50/50. (56.99 total Steem).

When doing 100% with $10 post you will make 66.66 Steem.

The main reason behind this is the blockchain always assumes SBD is worth $1.

tldr;

Using power up 100% will yield you more rewards now but it will not always be the case. If SBD is worth more than $1 do not use 100% power up (or if it will be by the 7-day payout).

It will be a long time before this is an issue, but it is important to understand.

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4 votes

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Thanks for your insightful and informative reply!

As a NEWB I didn't realize that my upvote power and my daily action-points were tied to my steem-power. If you want to level-up, steem-power certainly helps.

Also, there seems to be a lot of chatter about steem "inflation" and "dumping" and "burning".

Powering-up your steem addresses all of these "problems" at the same time!

I also wanted that steem logo next to all my posts! It seems to make them stand out a little more in the crowd!

Thanks for the info about SBD. It's a little weird to have two independently valued denominations of the same steem-money.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

@daimqui please let me know how I have offended you and what I can do in order to kindly request you remove your downvote.

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

It’s a network of alts that randomly downvote people.

Long history there. #decentralised

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3 votes

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Thanks for the heads-up!

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Thanks @giuvre for the random downvote!

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kiwisteem (0) · 5 years ago

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

The other huge issue is the top twenty witness selection process.
We just cant have people with thousands of accounts dictating who sets the rules any more.

Witness selection is purely by stake. The main issue has always been @freedom being the deciding vote in most cases.

I feel certain that some have an unlimited budget (not personal money) and are deliberately setting this up to fail

They don't want it to fail. They want it to be alive just enough, or mostly dead, so that they can continually make profits off of it unchallenged.

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8 votes

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

I hope we can get some traction!

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago (edited)

Your voice is worth something. Get paid for good content. Post and upvote articles on Steemit to get your share of the daily rewards pool.

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