I do know the irrelevance of debating details of people long dead.
The facts are, the workers can simply continue doing the work, while refusing to play crapitalism by paying to get that work back from the wealthy and the world doesnt end.
On any given tuesday proper management brings us as close to utopia as we can get.
We dont have to call that communism, we dont have to delineate who owns the factories, we only have to properly manage resources to end wars and poverty.
The only people that get mad are the folks that like the misery inflicted onto others by the status quo, and their dupes.
The factories are free? the plant machinery is free? the infrastructure is free?
It has to be paid for in advance by someone. If it's not stolen money, it's capitalism...
If its assets seized, its communism.
I don't like theft.
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Who built the factories?
Who does the fruit of that labor belong to if not the progeny of those that did it?
Very few factory 'owners' poured even one yard of concrete, or stacked one brick upon another.
Workers built this world, not 'owners'.
Anything controlled by a bank, or corporation, is ill gotten, and fair game in my book.
Even believing this, we dont have to disposses the owners.
They can continue in their positions.
Why they would want to is beyond me, they could be doing anything they desire.
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They are the enemy of capitalism (crony)
This has zero to do with the dynamic of what capitalism is.
Zero.
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Once rule by force comes off the table this debate becomes moot.
Coercion is the problem, not the specific management style.
Though, my bet is still on mutual aid rather than competition.
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except on a local scale, communism has to use force - too many people with different opinions...that's the whole point.
Localized communism is possible.
...but the very lack of communist model companies shows how they just don't work..
....Otherwise there would already be the dominant model.
Voluntary models that is - if they were any good - but they aren't..
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Nope.
It has to offer a better return on the people's time.
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...to offer a better return means an objective calculation of value......the only way to ascertain objective value is price discovery mechanism...capitalism anyone?
(Artificial price fixing is nothing to do with value, only control)
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True beliebers gonna belieb.
Try imagining a world of abundance where the things you value are harmony and time with your family.
This is what you get when you stop gouging your neighbor for every last dime of 'value'.
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should the mutual aid be voluntary or imposed? should people have the freedom to compete who can offer the best solutions? I want to be able to choose and support the service providers I value the most, as they meet my needs better than anyone else... why should I not have this freedom?
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If only it were that simple,...
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(whispers)...here's the con....it is..
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Or, we could treat each other like tribe members and not make our fellow human beings pay for using our knife, maybe even make one for him to have of his very own.
I dont see the world as improved if we tell our brother, 'well you could've used my knife but you have nothing to trade', or 'well i would give you a chunk of meat, but you dont have a knife, so starve'.
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'coulda, should, woulda' - it doesn't change reality.
Pretending nature doesn't exist, doesn't mean it will disappear.
We are a part of nature, not separate from it.
Every animal on this planet does any action for it's own advantage.
Altuism is a myth.
This is a natural dynamic. We are a natural beings.
You could argue that the issue is 'do you accept you are part of natures rhythms, or not?'
To not be, is by definition, against the order of things...?
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If being part of nature means living to the disadvantage of others, then its time to terra form, imo.
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Why is it irrelevant to find out the motivations that sell snake oil?
It gives an sight into the motivations behind the actions of these people (selling ideologies that can never work, for example)
Does this not seem relevant?
...like Marx being 2nd cousin of Rothchilds. Does that not ring any alarm bells about the doctrine, and potential propaganda that might have been employed...?
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Because moving forward relies on what we do and think, not what they left in writing for us.
Ive never read marx, and dont reference his material, at all.
Kropotkin is my guy.
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????????????
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Yep, you wont find anything but denigration of him in my writings.
If the banksters want us to know his name that xxx's him out, for me.
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....is it not a good idea to know what he wrote? (for the whole picture if nothing else)...just sayin'
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Ive got better things to do with my time than spend it reading something bankster approved, for now.
I thought i should read it, too.
Just to say i had.
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