How Good Person Tokens could lead to censorship

ragepeanut (62) · 7 years ago

As ned stated (not mentioning him to avoid troubling him too much), those are only hypothetical tokens. They were invented just to show what SMT's would be capable of doing. If however they are added to Steemit, this wouldn't be bad for the Steem blockchain but just for Steemit ! Other Steem apps would have their own or no SMT's and those wouldn't have anything to do with the GPT's. What you are scared of is one of the reasons why SMT's will be so good in my opinion. Some websites don't want to be decentralized and want to be able to filter content (by quality, political view...), with SMT's they will be able to do so. This doesn't mean that all websites will do the same ! Ultimately the power will be in our hands as users to pick our platforms, it will be our fault if we decide to pick a centralized one. Content posted on the blockchain will still act the same as it does now (with trending, hot, created, vote weight...). Just think of SMT's as a layer added on top of the posts generated by a specific app to make it more convenient for the app to get what it needs (trending by vote count instead of post value for example).

That's what I think I've understood from everything that's been said about SMT's so far. Hopefully it's correct because that would be amazing !

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks for your comments. lemme just clarify a few things.
the future you described is awesome. i'll love it, and certainly not be afraid of it.
but it will only come under certain conditions. that i'm very afraid.

you can't have websites competing each other like that when GPT is the only dominant SMT. yes you can have 1000s and 1000s of different dapps/websites/bots/etc on top of the steem blockchain, each having their own SMTs, but the sheer number is not an issue at all. it's whether an SMT can create a rewards pool or not.

GPT will do it. nobody doubts that. @ned even hinted that it could be used as a metric for quality posts. people will trade it. now you need someone who can match that rewards pool otherwise it's not a competition. it's gotta be someone who has enough followers and influence that his/her SMT will match the total marketcap (most tokens won't even have a marketcap). but nobody in this community is bigger than @ned.

it's why i keep saying you need a bigger player entering with a new SMT. it's the only way to ensure that steem will be an ecosystem for all sorts of SMTs. if not, GPT will be the dominant one. it's a token verified by steemit inc according to their own behavioral guidelines.

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oliviaalexa (53) · 7 years ago

This is great way to earn more rewards and token is needed.
I like your contribution and support you dear.
You are really good person.

roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks. we need many tokens (SMTs). we need several big players coming in and creating a bunch of new reward pools. we might even need strong governance. but that governance must not be entirely dependent on @ned or steemit inc. it must be decentralized enough so that the community has the ability to act on its own behalf, rather than relying on a single entity to simply do the right thing.

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evananisa (47) · 7 years ago

such a very good offer my friend @roundbeargames

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks @evananisa. i'd have to assume the first big player to create a new SMT, to start creating a rewards pool that doesn't need to be nurtured by steemit inc itself, is absolutely crucial for its own survival as a social platform. the question is who is @ned talking to?

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mineopoly (64) · 7 years ago

This is great @roundbeargames and shows how much you thought about both sides. It seems hypothetical but I can see it happening.

you can't simply create a sentient robot and tell him to pick good people.

I just hope it doesn't turn into the soup nazi bot from Seinfeld.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

😄 on second thought, maybe you could make one. now we start worshiping a bunch of 0s and 1s. a digital god that nobody can dispute. doesn't seem so bad actually.. or are we in a terminator movie.

anyways should we meet next week?

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mineopoly (64) · 7 years ago (edited)

Great idea... meeting together and the digital god concept... true but there is more...

I see the code everywhere

I worked in a molecular genetics research lab for a year after graduation. The code is totally present. Although we can manipulate it and reproduce it we cannot create it because it is here already.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

yea lemme know on discord if you have time. and wow i didn't know you did research on that. i have no idea what they do over there. but once we start creating something in our own image, that'd be interesting. and scary.

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leadershipmoment (45) · 7 years ago

Esta aceptable la propuesta, ya sea de parte de los mayores(arriba) observar buen contenido y aplicar para mejorar...Muy buen post e interesante, saludos amigo

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

steemit clearly has a lot of room for improvement. only death awaits if they fail to adjust and make the right changes. i hope they facilitate community growth in a way that's not too centralized.

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franciscana23 (65) · 7 years ago

Gracias amigo @roundbeargames por ayudarnos a entender como funciona el Blockchain Database de Steemit. Una pregunta la censura seria por parte de Steemit o de parte del Blockchain

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks @franciscana23. let's hope steem goes to the moon. you should do some googling yourself because i'm guessing a lot here 😃

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franciscana23 (65) · 7 years ago

That we hope all friend, that Steem reaches the moon and if it is possible much futher @roundbeargames

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

oh yes. i won't go higher than steem but hopefully watch it take off and benefit me in some ways 😃

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hrhabibur (50) · 7 years ago

@roundbeargames Your concerns are understandable,This offer seems to me to be very good. I always support you.@upvoted & @resteemed.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks for the resteem! but i'm also concerned about your steemit page because you want your own content, rather than simple links.

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edgargonzalez (80) · 7 years ago

This offer seems to me to be very good to know whom they are the good persons regards.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

it's good if a 'good person' could be defined by the community. a single entity like steemit inc or some smartest person in the world can't do it alone. shouldn't do it alone 😌

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novacadian (58) · 7 years ago

Your concerns are understandable, @roundbeargames.

My take away was that checks would be made against such things as self voting, etc.. Any tweeking that will counter abuse is worth a try in my estimation.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks. self voting is bad? i've been self voting a lot 😐
anyways it's pretty clear bidbots are bad. so are isis beheading videos. i probably won't question anything around those issues even if they're included in the guidelines.

what if i'm a homophobe? or accused of? i certainly don't support murder, genocide, torture, and sexslaves, but i could be a kim jung un supporter. what if i support a president that @ned really really hates?

i just don't think it's possible for any human being or an organization to come up with a guideline that clearly defines what a 'good person' is. all such attempts have failed (quite miserably). can god do it? we have disagreements on that too.

btw i'm just playing the devil's advocate. there's a few things 99% of us wish would disappear from steemit. but there's a lot more grey area that i'm concerned with and steemit inc alone won't be able to deal with it.

novacadian (58) · 7 years ago (edited)

If you, or a group that you are a part of, feel thwarted by STINC Policy, then there is nothing stopping such a group from handling the input and delivery of content on the blockchain differently as the code is open source and the database is distributed. Imagine Busy Darknet 2.0. 😎

P.S. Perhaps better than Good Person would be Community Exceptable Behavior. Less judgemental and allows evolution over time.

P.P.S Self voting was removed a few forks ago and then returned. Rumour is that it is removed in the next fork again.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks for pointing that out, but guidelines have nothing to do with code. they can't define spam or other 'bad code' in meaningful detail. they're general terms that are subjective to interpretation. it's why we don't trust governments and banks.

if we have a bunch of individuals going around finding 'bad actors', they'd have different results. but yes they'd overlap on some of the most obvious ones. but the community's already kinda doing that. steemit inc should be included as one of those individuals. but it shouldn't be the big boss telling us what a 'good person' is.

novacadian (58) · 7 years ago

Hopefully it will be community driven with community concensus as to what is exceptable.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

yup let the community do it 👍

niharikalove (53) · 7 years ago

Wow Really amazing post my dear friend..Outstanding post..

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks @niharikalove. you're an outstanding friend. much appreciated.

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clumsysilverdad (64) · 7 years ago

how would they be filtered that is different from flagging currently?

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

i have no idea. that's exactly one of my concerns.

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american-pie (53) · 7 years ago

This is great . Outstanding post.. Resteemed it . Thanks

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thank you. steem and SMT 가즈아 😎

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anitacarolina (66) · 7 years ago

You seem to be a good observer, sorry if my English is ugly ..😄

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

no need to be sorry for anything! thanks for stopping by.

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anitacarolina (66) · 7 years ago

You are welcome😄

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jjuuaanchoo (50) · 7 years ago

I think we should not worry so much buddy, let's give the benefit of the doubt, in the same way that we all know that if it does not work if it is centralized or becomes another facebook as you say, then most people will leave the platform, I think that it does not suit themt, they need to attract more people, we have to wait and see, we have to be patient

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks. i am giving them the benefit of the doubt. steem is my biggest investment. i'm not rich but to me it's a lotta money.

yes, if a company brings out whitelists and guidelines when they have a platform on a blockchain, while claiming they're censorship resistant, it could easily be their downfall.

@ned did mention possible changes, so we'll see what happens.

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glorimarbolivar (54) · 7 years ago

Extraordinary post friend, good offer but you have to wait a bit to see what happens, you're great @roundbeargames

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks. you're a great friend. i have no idea who with what influence is going to create a new SMT. so we'll see!

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betaniaj (53) · 7 years ago

this information is very good, now steemit has a little more security, I realized because a friend tried to enter and could not, but it is very good that the platform takes into account the bad grades of certain people. That's why every day I try to be better, thank you once more for sharing this information

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

for now i think they're just slowing down people from creating multiple accounts and abusing the rewards pool. i have no idea how they're gonna solve the issue if steemit and SMT goes main stream (if).
contrary to my opinions more security and verification could actually turn out to be good. so we'll have to see. and as always i appreciate your support 😌

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betaniaj (53) · 7 years ago

great friend.

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tattoodjay (73) · 7 years ago

I hadnt heard of this so thanks for sharing, I do like the idea of cleaning up some of the spammers and such, but anything like this can go so wrong as well I guess we will have to watch what develops

tip!

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks for stopping by! i'd love to have spammers cleaned out too but no behavioral guideline will ever be able to clearly define spam, or any other malicious activity. it's open to so many different people's opinions. i see the 'good' intentions but yea it can go wrong. and whatever can go wrong will 😆

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tattoodjay (73) · 7 years ago

Spammers are clever and put a lot of effort to find ways around whatever is put in place sadly

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

yes it's why general guidelines put up by one man is almost meaningless 😌

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chiminguito (49) · 7 years ago

SALUDO AMIGO Y GRACIAS POR ESAS INFOMACIONES

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks it's mostly my guesses rather than info. so i'd recommend you google it as well 😃

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surfyogi (65) · 7 years ago

Hitman, you is a smart mofo mon!
Excellent comments. I think there may be so much MOOLA around big companies that have approached on the SMT, that's all that's getting done these days..
I am thinking whitelist may replace flags?

Anyway, whitelist is a blacklist in sheeps clothing and sounds more positive, but it requires some maint either way, and white lists are usually compared to blacklists during maint or initial creation.
In some ways it sounds like all of steemit could be switching over to it's own SMT as well?
So we can imagine a "democratic steemit" inside a wildwest Steem blockchain? ;-)

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks mon. for steemit's survival it is absolutely critical that the steem blockchain becomes a wildwest where all sorts of SMTs can fight each other. steemit inc will have their own SMTs like GPT or appics or whatever. but their own token must not be the dominant force. if it does, steemit will die. it'd be steemit trying to be another facebook, and you can't beat facebook in their own game.

and i appreciate you coming here and adding a lot of input. it's helped me think in a few different angles. i love it 👍

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ridwant (76) · 7 years ago

before, i would say that; this writing is really great.

I think, today they already have more than 100 accounts per person. They have personal bot and bring themselves alive. Steemvoter has worked on helping them. But I agree with your idea, Account verification is still weak and welcome to verify steemit account with credit card. emmm .... but i am one of those .. hahahhaha.
the owner of the minnow account needs to re-read about the steemit guidance, to avoid abuse and quickly grow well on his own body without having to kneel to the someone.

Thanks my friend ..

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks. i'm not exactly understanding this comment, but i'm guessing you support stronger verification by credit card?

i'm against the idea of steemit inc collecting that much data, but at the same time, if steemit can verify everyone in the world, it's essentially another facebook. most people would be happy to give up their credit card and passport and a whole lot more if their investments can go 1000x. so yea. i might have my doubts. but i can't say no to that either.

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ridwant (76) · 7 years ago

I have to apologize, because my english is not good..
I support for verify Account with credit card. .this is great idea and I agrees with your reviews. Thank you...

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

i'm warning against the possibility. how steem could start collecting personal info just like facebook. and eventually lose.
but people actually enjoy centralization. so we'll see 😌

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ridwant (76) · 7 years ago

Thanks for this information .... because before i did not know this.

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steemitboard (66) · 7 years ago

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alizafatima99 (44) · 7 years ago

Hey, @roundbeargames this information is wonderful. and this is great post,dear this post resteemed.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

thanks! a lot of this is guessing and my opinions only. so you should definitely do the research yourself as well! 😃

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alizafatima99 (44) · 7 years ago

Welcome dear :)
You are right

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bobaphet (69) · 7 years ago

Yes, I think transparency needs to be prevalent, like it is with all our accounts.
Just like airport security :)
Protect us from the quality hating, spammers :)
Peace.

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roundbeargames (70) · 7 years ago

yes transparency is good. but i was referring to airport security because it's not transparent at all! 😆

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bobaphet (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yes, I realised that :P
I actually loved the undercurrent :)
Thus freedom hating terrorsists/quality hating spammers :)
Peace.

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