Introduction, and a newcomers experience with Gridcoin.

in gridcoin •  7 years ago  (edited)

I see that an introduction is in place.

I'm a man in the late 40's, who has had distributed computing as a hobby for many years.
It has been fun and interesting to see how it has developed over the years, into the wonderfull being / monster that it has become today.
My first experience with distributed computing lies about 20 years back in time. The first distributed project I heard of was Distributed Net.
A project that is still alive today, allthough has perhaps lost some of its appeal. I joined, not so much because of the challenge of cracking the key (which I found rateher un-interestning), but because I found the thought of combining a lot off computers into "one", and do tasks this way was such a good idea.
It prooved itself later on, basically every crypto currency relies on distributed computing, but nobody back then had any ideas what / where it would end up at.

A few years later Seti@home came along in its "Classic" form, and I immediatly joined. I found the project inspiring then, and still do today.
After some years the BOINC project was launched, and Seti moved to the platform as the first project. They were sort off developed for each other.

Since then I have been researching many different things, allways just contributing, and never getting payed, allthough I have probably spend a rather large sum on the electricity and hardware to do so.
I see it as a chance for me to do a little good. If my computers can help cure cancer/aids/alzheimers/you name it or find ET, I think its worth the effort.

About 50 days ago, I decided to join Gridcoin.
I had a naive idea that I could make coins and donate them to SETI@home, so they could use them to upgrade their systems / infrastructure.

It would proove not be as easy as that:

First off all, you dont have a chance as a solo cruncher without coins in the wallet. You will basically never make any coins, ever....
The faucets that should help, dont pay much, so thats not a way to go.
After a few days I realized that I had to join a pool. So I joined GRCpool, and has been getting a few coins a day since then.
Besides the pool, I have been solo crunching a little, so that I could have a small magnitude, and keep being a researcher. Not the optimum way to make the most coins fast, but I like it this way, and do eventually get paid for this work too.
Now I have enough that I have just made my first stake, a very satisfying experience.
The plan now is to stay in the pool, until I am able to stake once or twice a week, and then I'll go solo.

And the plan is still to donate the surplus coins, when I have enough to stake regularly. I'll have to keep some, to keep up with the dificulty going up, but should be able to donate some of them.

I think I'm on the right path now :)

But I do have some remarks about Gridcoin.

I'm no dummie on a computer, and I work with IT as a part of my daily job. But still I have found Gridcoin extremely hard to get into.
There's basically not enough info out there, and much of it is outdated, or it contradicts itself. It is very easy to get confused and make poor decisions. Its also spread out and hard to find.
And the dificulty in getting coins is simply not a good thing. A coin that is promoted as a coin where you get paid for doing science, should be paying peoble for doing science....
Not have a lot of hurdles that you should overcome.
If you do Boinc, and install Gridcoin, coins should start coming to you. It does'nt have to be a lot, but there should be some rewards.
Peoble give up when they meet the fact, that you either have to invest some real money (which is not easy in itself for a newcomer), and many don't like the idea of having to join a pool.

So some peoble simply give up on the idea, and thats bad, as Gridcoin relies on having many active users.

And then there is the latest instability with the release of the new client, and the hard fork some days ago. Since then the network has been one big mess, forking all the time, and things seems to only be getting worse.
Not very comforting to a newcomer. And there has been close to zero info on the subject, if users should be worried, is it getting fixed etc etc.
I'm on the latest version, 3.7.5, but i can see my wallet go off on forks constantly, and all the stats pages, faucets, and even GRCpool are unstable / offline because of the state of the Gridcoin net.
I find it worrying :)

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh, but I really think these things are things that needs looking into.

This became a long post, sorry :)

When you have a lot you feel you need to say, its hard to write short messages...

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I think you raised a few good points here. Getting into Gridcoin is not the easiest and being a "dumb user" is simply not possible. What seems logic and everyday business to us, might be a hurdle too high for many others. For example, I could never imagine quiet a lot of my friends getting through the entire process of installing and maintaining the Gridcoin wallet.

I also think that the payout method we have right now for Gridcoin is not ideal. RAC is hard to see through. Furthermore, as you mentioned, it is impossible to just join and get the coins coming without joining grcpool. It would be a much more pleasant way to get paid based on the credit one acquiered in a certain timespan - let's say once a day - and see direct results of what you have accomplished.

Now comes the BUT:

Even though there are some paid developers for Gridcoin, none of them do it as their full time job (as far a I know). These people develop Gridcoin in their free time that they could just as well spend with their families, their hobbies or sleeping (right now, some of them probably lose sleep). Since the community of Gridcoin is - even though it grows rapidly - still rather small, I learned that just bringing up an idea is not enough. There will be no one actually building up on it. We have to actually take matters into our own hand and improve what we don't like. That is the beauty and the burden of decentralised systems.

Now comes the BUT BUT:

It is still very valuable to write about the concerns you have and simply put your ideas out there. Posts like yours have an immense value for the community and start discussions about important topics that might be picked up by the devs.

I personally have not written any code yet for Gridcoin and probably am as "dumb" a user as it gets in Gridcoin. Therefore I do not mean anything above in a judgemental way, I have simply learned that during the months I have been involved in Gridcoin and think it is not the most obvious thought out there.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Thanks for your answer, and for taking the time to comment on my thoughts.

I feel it important that I underline, that this is not meant as as hard a criticism as it perhaps sounded.
I actually like Gridcoin very much, the idea behind it is good, and is has been working fine.
I am sadly not a programmer, so I cant help fix things. I only try to point out the shortcomings that I see.

But perhaps something could be learned about, that when the network is in its current state, information gets important.

They dont have to say much.

Just a short "Yes we know its broken, and we'll fix it, hold on", or "Everything is allright, the network just needs to fix itself", would probably put a lot of peoble's minds at ease.

Right now I think the maintainers of gridcoinstats and / or grcpool are frustrated with the state of things.
I would be, if I tried to provide a service and the network seemed to work against me.

Now I'm just hoping that the problems we are seeing gets fixed soon, so that we can have a reliable network back :)

Added later:

As to the dificulty of joining Gridcoin, yes it seems very hard, and many of my friends would have a hard time too.
I had the benefit of being a long time Boinc user, so I know that part of the system in and out, better than most I suspect. But still it was very hard, and with a steep learning curve to join Gridcoin.

That's true. There are no official posts from the devs as far as I know. You are actually raising a good point there!

If you are looking for a place where you will get this information, join the Gridoin Slack channel. There are the devs and the grcpool and gridcoinstats admins around and also a bunch of other great people!

I have now joined the slack channel, and a few more, they are very informative and have also installed a Gridcoin client to run on the testnet.
So I'm trying to help a little :)

There is a statement from our lead dev on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/comments/7tqe3z
But I know it's hard to keep up with so many different platforms.

Very direct! Nice. I've also crunched SETI years ago and joined Gridcoin recently - last September.

Interesting fact about Gridcoin community - reasonable critical posts by newcomers pointing out weaknesses are upvoted! I hope this community will stay this way.

If you will find some time and want to help with improvements, there are long lists of tasks on github-community and github-dev

Sadly I'm not a programmer, but I'm allways willing to help.
I won't be of much worth on github, but if the developers needs Beta testers or something like that they are welcome to contact me :)

Tasks on community github are usually not programming related. Also, what I've seen on slack devs desperately need more testers, but you would probably need to sign in to gridcoin slack...

I beg to differ and am same age , come from seti@home on a k6-2 and 2 x sli voodoo 2 12mb cards with my 4mb tnt2 and extra 4mb laptop edo stick for 8mb video to watch that 3.5mhz waterfall ( ham too ) and I have been with GRC a while and you can start out solo.
You think you are going to make $1000yr ? Actually after the new version updates to exchanges levels out I should be 5x that again or there about and at $2600 for the time i have spent would cover the costs as I have a massive cluster of systems ( hp blades ). You are spreading GRC monopoly pool propaganda and hurting the new growth of our project... If you have a problem get off your lazy duff and join us , its an open project and everybody in the community other than ROB himself is equal since the foundation is a sham and Gridcoin is a cult following fork off BTC made from the source code of many coins ( sorry done some dev and porting ). You cant make a stack off your little desktop , laptop and a phone. Not right away , not with people like me whom spend all their time expanding xeon blade systems and I am a small fish , then you have dutch @ 3.8kw/H ( bit more than me) and Deltik with his multiple HP C-7000 blade enclosures and bl460-c gen 7 blades ( he hid them but I saved a copy for pastebin @ my laptop ) and you really need to scale you setup and hang around a bit , join the mumble but beware its just a think tank and your ideas will get stolen such as my " Graylist " project so be careful and don't trust anyone... Also hide your usb thumb drive in an atari st cartridge or something cloak and dagger so they don't ever find it...

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