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apolymask (67) · 5 years ago (edited)

I feel similar about the Hive name and made a post about it and went on their discord to discuss and it seems they decided without us in secret.

We could campaign to have it changed in the future, but, that has potential problems and drawbacks as well. Pretty frustrating to me as someone who loves language and decentralization so much...

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

Basically, yes. I don't mind that developers go off and fork in private, but when the response to feedback on a pretty serious aspect of the process is "don't be so negative", "you are complaining just for the sake of complaining" and "the name is meaningless" - I feel pretty sad for the state of the 'community' and it's voices. It's particularly frustrating to be met with a wall of obvious unconsciousness and denial in the form of people claiming that someone with input is being 'negative' just for dissenting when it is obviously them who is negatively rejecting other voices.
I am not interested in begging and pleading with anyone for any reason. People make their choices and get their result.

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3 votes

apolymask (67) · 5 years ago

Agreed. I think anyone should be able to fork and do their own thing, however, when they tout community as their main strength and then leave the broader community out of such important decisions and decide in a secret sort of way like that just feels a bit off.

And yeah... I was being told similar things as you, and I was being totally peaceful and calm an d respectful and they were saying similar stuff. Very strange energy indeed. Felt like they just want their project and don't want any criticism.

Well said at the end there. I concur and I'm glad to see I wasn't alone in my sentiments about trying to suggest an alternative name. I think this could have been so much more amazing if we had a name more in line with freedom, or love or life or so many other things besides "Hive".

shrug oh well.

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

Yes, absolutely. I think part of the issue is that they want to get it all done at high speed and the name has been decided as being a low priority and something that people can argue over for days. I do get where they are coming from to some extent, it's just a problem for me that marketing strategy is being over simplified. On top of the name issue there's also the reality that over-centralisation, ignoring the community and poor marketing are precisely the main problems that we all hated about steemit inc. and yet here were are facing essentially the same thing from day one from the community themselves. history repeats when lessons are not being learned.

2 votes

apolymask (67) · 5 years ago

Yeah, I think so too... And I can also get where they are coming from to an extent. But, I also highly agree with everything else you said, well said.

That's exactly how I've been feeling, and it's almost like it's a little worse in some ways because at least we would sort of expect this kind of behavior from steemit inc or Justin, but, our own community who I thought were suppose to be significantly anarchist/libertarian?

I thought this place was much more focused on individual freedom and when they picked a name like Hive which to me more often means the opposite of that and then they did it in secret and passed it sort of like the Patriot Act and then in their official blog post mentioned they weren't going to airdrop some people based on their political position and what they said about centralization, it's just like... Wow... What happened? I thought we were on a similar page and now they're doing some really sketchy questionable stuff all of a sudden... I hope things calm down in time, yet, either way this is now history and this new chain was birthed in secret by a smaller centralized group instead of out in the open by the broader community... :\

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

It's not the best start, I agree. A few people in the Hive discord stated that they are not anarchists in any sense - so it seems that may be part of the issue. There will probably always be people who actually do value liberty who will be willing to continue Steem's codebase on - however, as many people have stated (including me) 'anarcho capitalism is not anarchy' and for me, this just reinforces the reality here.

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

But had they listened, then you would have been that peak.

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apolymask (67) · 5 years ago

Not sure what you mean?

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

When I say peak, I mean like the leader. I was replying to what you said about your feelings about the Hive name on Discord. I guess what I was trying to say was partly a joke.

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apolymask (67) · 5 years ago

I thought maybe that's what you meant and it didn't make sense to me cause I was arguing for the community to pick the name, not me. Why would I be the peak if I'm asking for the community to do it and not me? No. I wasn't trying to be any kind of leader, I genuinely didn't think the name was a good fit for freedom and I thought a much better choice would be to let the community decide. I think that would be awesome if we all could have decided together as a group.

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creativeblue (61) · 5 years ago

Hi there

I've been reading through many comments related to new hive chain and I've seen your comment too. Many users are being torn, however majority seem to be moving to new hive.

Are you fully moving there or will you stay on both chains? Just curious. I'm trying to figure out what to do myself.

apolymask (67) · 5 years ago

I see. And yeah, it's a very divisive thing.
To answer your question, I'm mostly moving to Hive.
I don't intend to post much on steemit anymore, the main reason for this is because I heard some hive people talking and saying stuff like they would consider people who still post here as traitors and might try to deny them rewards on hive cause they don't want people supporting their competitors, and... Steemit also has been censoring more and getting worse, so... As sad as it is, I am allowing those threats to influence my decision, however, I think steem might still end up being the winner in the long run since they have so much more money, my plan is to sort of just see what happens. I'm not going to cash out right away, but, I might if the value goes up. And for the time being I'm just going to post on Hive, unless something changes.

I run the IFC, so I will keep posting that here on steem as well for any players who might not move over, but, mostly just going to post on Hive. Good luck figuring out what you're going to do!

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creativeblue (61) · 5 years ago

Big Thx for your reply. I think i will stick around on both chains for time being.

I also figured that you may find this post interesting and worth your time:
https://steemit.com/hive-175254/@project.hope/project-hope-curation-trail-on-both-chains-steem-and-new-hive

It's post published by good friend of mine and I'm helping him to promote their curation trail.

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

Oh. My bad. You were asking for a poll, for a vote for their favorite names to choose from.

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paulmp (66) · 5 years ago

If you think of it as a hive as in hive mind, that is a decentralised community working together in harmony...

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

a hive mind is not decentralised in my mind - it is a centralised, homogenous blob.
borg

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paulmp (66) · 5 years ago

I meant in nature, not in science fiction. I also choose to focus on the positives, but you seem fixated on the potential negatives of a word.

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

Positivity is mechanically integrative and includes the negative too. 'Positive thinking' is a problem if it includes denials. As a professional digital marketer and systems engineer, I know I need to think of all angles when it comes thinking of a symbol to be used to represent a brand. Blocking out problems with a word will not stop the brand losing optimal placement.

2 votes

paulmp (66) · 5 years ago

You are probably right. I still think you are over thinking it though. Either way, it will be interesting to watch what happens.

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

I like hives and I like the idea of working together. I believe in decentralization and centralization, long story. It is very complex as the world has both simultaneously and that is a balance, a mechanism that goes back and forth. It is somewhat impossible for humans to actually have one without the other apart from hypothetical theories and temporary moments in history.

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

i am not sure how much you know about bees but you are wrong, and missed it by a lot.
Drones are the only fat ones in the hive and they either die after mating or get cast out when winter comes.
queen bee is hard working. all her life is dedicated to making more bees for the hive, and would not survive on her own.
The colony relies on each other for everything within one another individual bees (workers, drones, and queens) wouldn't be able to survive. The whole colony is also needed to reproduce. The colony of a bee is a well-oiled machine working together to survive.
If you would like to pick one bad thing in this than that would be swarming. But i doubt it Hive will ever become to big so it has to swarm.

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago (edited)

Queen honey bees are created when worker bees feed a single female larvae an exclusive diet of a food called "royal jelly".[59][62] Queens are produced in oversized cells and develop in only 16 days; they differ in physiology, morphology, and behavior from worker bees. In addition to the greater size of the queen, she has a functional set of ovaries, and a spermatheca, which stores and maintains sperm after she has mated.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee

bees operate on programs/imprints and face problems from the group if their behaviour 'dissents' and challenges the queen's reproductive dominance. bees have been used as a symbol of royalty since ancient egyptian times - the 'queen of england' wore a bee gown at her coronation. bees and hives are absolutely a symbol of centralisation and hierarchy. i am confused as to why anyone things anything different and as yet no-one has provided any evidence to the contrary of my position.

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

Many people assume that the queen controls everything. She doesn't. The only thing she actually controls is reproduction. Queens create a chemical called queen substance or queen pheromone. The retinue of worker bees that feed her spread this queen substance around to the other workers in the hive, and as long as there is enough of it, none of the workers' ovaries develop. In addition to this, the queen internally controls whether an egg is fertilized (is female) or unfertilized (is male).

Externally its a different matter. Workers actually control whether or not the queen lays fertilized or unfertilized eggs by the size of the cells they build. Smaller cells induce the queen to lay fertilized eggs, larger cells are a cue to lay unfertilized eggs. Queen cups also induce a queen to lay fertilized eggs, which are created by workers when the levels or queen substance produced by the queen become too low (usually when either the queen is getting too old, or when the hive gets too big.)

or, workers decide when to change the queen bee

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

I appreciate that bees work together, yes. However, they do not embody independence or variation per se - they are centralised by definition.
I personally am less interested here in the biological mechanics of inter-bee relationships, than I am in the public perception of the new blockchain. Symbols have different meanings to different people. It's clear that some people just think of 'busy bees' and 'doing work' when they think of bees and hives - however, many people think of homogenous, lockstep hierarchy and 'classes' of people - a hivemind. Orwell's 1984 is the classic example of groupthink and this kind of issue in humanity. I find it actually quite disturbing that this isn't obvious to more people here considering that most people I usually speak with are on the same page as me.

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

i understand what you are talking about, but we don't have a hivemind in our language. not sure for other languages but i know 3 that don't use that. so maybe that is why it is not my first association.

maybe we should use this to educate people of bees and importance of them in the world 😁. For example i assume that a lot of people know how shitty the world would be without bee hives.

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ura-soul (75) · 5 years ago

Hehe. Well, increased care for bees would certainly be a good thing, however, given that Wifi networks are causing bees serious problems it seems a bit of a hard task to suggest that a wifi powered social network is going to help real bees!

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steempeak (72) · 5 years ago

Dang dropping some knowledge on us!

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

I like what you're saying about bees and I'm a fan of hierarchy as opposed to hypothetical anarchy which is only theoretical. I believe in decentralization and centralization at the same time. I believe in the balancing act between extremes. I am not against hierarchy but some people are against it. But one of the problems is when hierarchy government is infiltrated by globalists and others. People can do bad. So, centralized hierarchy can mess things up. But no hierarchy can also screw with things as well. To some extent and in some ways, a blockchain can be a decentralized system that is somewhat enforced by a centralized code, the blockchain, which either is or should allow for modification via decentralized voting, you know, the users, the witnesses. Generally, I do promote anarchy and decentralization in order to minimize and counter tyrannical authoritarianism, globalism, tech cartels, fascists, etc, etc.

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

it is like trying to get the best from both sides. we are still not there, maybe we will maybe not, who knows. all of this is just one real life experiment.

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 5 years ago

Agreed

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wikitextbot (46) · 5 years ago

Honey bee
A honey bee (also spelled honeybee) is a eusocial flying insect within the genus Apis of the bee clade, all native to Eurasia but spread to four other continents by human beings. They are known for construction of perennial, colonial nests from wax, for the large size of their colonies, and for their surplus production and storage of honey, distinguishing their hives as a prized foraging target of many animals, including honey badgers, bears and human hunter-gatherers. In the early 21st century, only seven species of honey bee are recognized, with a total of 44 subspecies, though historically seven to eleven species are recognized. The best known honey bee is the western honey bee which has been domesticated for honey production and crop pollination; modern humans also value the wax for candlemaking, soapmaking, lip balms, and other crafts.

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