Introduction and AMA (Ask Me Anything) about being a Professional Poker and Daily Fantasy Sports Player (Cross Post from Poker Section)

daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

Will tell the story of my most soul crushing moment. It's hard to put in perspective, and very hard to relate to, especially given that I cashed for 192k in a tournament in a very good year for me overall, but it was so soul crushing that I was sick for a week afterwards and have barely played live tournaments since then.

In December of 2007, same year as the PCA, the Bellagio has a tournament series they call the 5 diamond. It's a series of ~15-20 tournaments culminating with a $15k buyin WPT event. I played 6 or 7 events leading up, think I had 1 small cash but nothing else. We started the main with 30k in chips and I ended day 1 with 20k, not good. I had a favorable table draw day 2 and chipped up all day to end with over 100k, survived day 3 and 4, and at the start of day 5 won a huge pot with AA v KK against Daniel Negreanu with ~22 players left. Pretty quickly into day 5 I'm chipleader and most of the other top players get eliminated. I make the final table 10 2nd in chips and am coasting to a FT spot with 40-50bb and a bunch of short stacks present. First I lose JJ to the Ax of Eugene Katchalov (the eventual winner) for about 1/4 my stack. Then I lose AJo vs KK to the late Devilfish (RIP) in a hand I probably made a mistake in. He raised UTG which he had done a few times (but at the same time he had been tight overall) with 12-15bb and I shoved from the BB when I probably should have just peeled and seen a flop. Then I lost 88 vs the AQ of Raymond Davis and all of a sudden I went from 2/7 to 7/7 with 5bb remaining. The payouts were something along the lines of 2.5M, 1.2M, 600k, 400k, 300k, 190k, 170k, and the previous payouts were also rather flat (I don't think there was much of an increase from 12 to 6). I didn't tilt shove in my chips but I was mentally devastated, folded some garbage hands and luckily someone else busted before it reached my big blind so I made the FT 6/6 with 4 big blinds left. First hand of the tv table I lose AJ v 88 to bust and went from likely having about 900k in stack equity to cashing for 192k over the course of 4 hands. No one bad luck hand did me in and I didn't punt off my chips, it was a combination of one iffy play and 3 unlucky losses.

It was the combination of everything that really got to me:
-that I finished exactly 6th, the last spot of the flatter payouts before they really got big. 4th place was over double my payout but 6th place was less than double 15th place
payouts listed here: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=29206
-that i lost a 70/30 with 7 left to the eventual winner
-that the final 9 players were relatively weak compared to the final 26: Vivek Rajkumar, Gus Hansen, Mikael Thuritz (one of the best 8 game players in the world), Huck Seed, Peter Jetten (great NL player), Todd Brunson, Negreanu, John Monnette, Erick Lindgren all bust between 26th and 10th, and at the time I thought I was the best player remaining (Eugene Katchalov is a fantastic player, but I didn't know him at the time)
-that no one big hand did me in, but rather 4 hands all in preflop

I flew home and laid in bed for a week before feeling better. I despise bad beat stories and despise complaining about bad luck in a game of skill, particularly in a year where I won one of the bigger tournaments that ran, but I've never felt so soul crushed by anything. Poker is a tough game to deal with the mental swings, even for those who have been lucky and are doing well.

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6 votes

elpablopino (36) · 8 years ago

Which have you enjoyed more as a professional: poker during its height or DFS during it height? It terms of enjoyment/lifestyle and profitability.

also do you ever play NHL DFS? any small advice? :)

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

I prefer DFS. Regimented schedule and more profitable for me.

I don't play NHL, it's too hard to do NHL and NBA at the same time

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wroman0207 (50) · 8 years ago

Forget the talk about Poker. I wanna hear more about STARCRAFT!!!!

Terran lives matter.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Haha, Starcraft was my first love. Well, I suppose my second love after baseball, but I was obsessed for years. I could talk for hours about my Starcraft story, but I'll tell you my most memorable Starcraft experience.

I made WCG USA finals back in 2003 and was eliminated by Day[9], otherwise known as Sean Plott. At the time he wasn't that well known, but within a couple years was the best player in the country and now is an international hero. We became friends and stayed in touch, mostly talking about poker. Sean was actually a pretty good player but decided gaming was his passion and pursued his Day[9] dailies and other interests instead.

Anyway, back in 2008 I was in California for a poker tournament. Sean was going to college at Harvey Mudd University, and a mutual buddy of ours and I went out to visit him. We were hanging out in his dorm and all of a sudden he goes "hey, there's an on game star league final tonight, I'm going to take over an auditorium on campus and do commentary, want to come?" Of course we both said yes. This is before he ever recorded a daily or did any commentary or his brother moved to Korea to do commentary.

HMC is a little university full of brilliant but eccentric people. Sean takes us to this auditorium, sets up his laptop on the projector feed and starts telling our buddy and I about the players in the finals. Gradually the auditorium starts to fill up. There must have been 20-30 people in that room listening to Sean commentate games. I'm pretty sure none of them played Starcraft competitively, Sean is just so incredibly captivating that he had everyone in the room excited and on the edge of their seat for the entire finals.

I haven't talked to Sean in years, he's busy doing all of his stuff, but every time I watch a daily and see how enthusiastic and engaging he is, I think back to that auditorium when he just did it for fun and realized what a brilliant, special person he is.

I don't remember off hand, but I want to see the finals was Jaedong vs Bisu and Bisu won 3-0??? It's been 8 years, I can't remember exactly, but I do remember a new protoss early expansion strategy taking off after that, mostly with a corsair followup. What a revolutionary strategy

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13 votes

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/WCG_2004

wroman0207 (50) · 8 years ago

I think you meant 2004.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

This was definitely 07-08 but I can't remember who played. A protoss won 3-0 using an early expand to corsair strategy. One of the maps was lost temple, could probably remember the others if I saw layouts. I'll revisit this question on Monday when I have a computer to dig deeper

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

I found it: Bisu beat Savior 3:0 in the MSL finals on 3/3/2007.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Bisu vs Savior 2007 MSL finals
Game 1:

Game 2:

Game 3:

En Taro Adun, Tassadar

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago (edited)

@wroman Hahaha!!

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Wow welcome to Steemit! Fascinating stories! Your strong math background is a huge advantage. What % of your game is playing the odds and what % is playing the person?

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

This is a difficult question to answer without getting super technical. But there has always been a balancing act between playing optimally (the game theoretical strategy which if perfected would be an unbeatable strategy) versus exploitably (playing in a way that tries to maximize against an opponent's particular strategy which has mistakes). Most top players nowadays have veered towards the optimal route, however, there are many instances where exploitable play is more profitable against certain opponents.

I'll try to give a basic example. Let's say there is $100 in a pot and we have $100 remaining. If I were playing a game theory optimal strategy, I would bet strong hands 67% of the time and bet $100 and bluff 33% of the time and bet $100. This is because I am giving my opponent 2:1 odds to call, so he needs to beat me 1 in 3 to be profitable, and I want to maximize how often I can make this bet and also do it in a way so he is indifferent to calling or folding with his mediocre hands. And my opponent knows he must call with at least 50% of his hands, otherwise when I bluff I am winning money since I risked $100 to win $100, so I need him to fold at least 50% for those bluffs to make money.

But if I know my opponent is folding too frequently then I can just bet every hand I have and bluff way more often and win money. Or if I know he is calling too frequently I will never bluff and always have strong hands. These adjustments are playing the player, and it helps to get someone to win the most money he can, but it is an exploitable and beatable strategy if the opponent properly adjusts.

Short answer: I try to play the odds most of the time

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4 votes

steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Thanks! Yeah I have to build a better framework in my mind for bet sizes & pot odds, but I get the gist of what you're saying. I play for fun and it's been years since I played, but bet sizes/pot odds is always something I wanted to improve on. I guess when you use more of an exploit strategy against people in tourneys you have to have a good memory to recognize a person's habits... what about tells?

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Some people are experts at tell recognition. I find them hard to use mainly because tells can often have multiple meanings (ie a shake could mean strength or weakness), and in live poker you only see about 30 hands an hour, players only show down hands every so often so you rarely find out what they have, and players have gotten increasingly better at being robotic in their betting motions.

Like I said, some people have mastered this, but since I made the move away from live poker after the 2007 soul crushing tournament, I never fostered this ability further and generally used it as a tie breaker in a close situation. Although when I did win that big tournament I had a physical tell on my opponent HU. I didn't recognize it, someone told me it and I spent a few hours verifying it, but it did pay off huge eventually as I was able to exploit him near the end, I just don't rely on them

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10 votes

steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Fascinating. I'm sure you can have a Madden rating on poker players for various strengths. So many factors that come into play and it seems HU would be the best place for taking advantage of tell recognition? What was Isaac's tell?

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

I feel like I playing poker now. This thread got me psyched!!

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

Poker is full of brilliant, driven, interesting people.

At my peak I was one of the best in the world at a very small subset of games in poker. Think of poker like the track and field section of the olympics, and while I played a few different events (say the 400m hurdle, the long jump, and the high jump), I was only one of the best at the 400m hurdle and maybe among the top 50 at another. Now since I am pretty inactive I wouldn't be top 200 in the world at any of the games I played for a living in the past.

There are a number of factors that make a top poker player, but I honestly believe I don't have the most important traits: extreme competitiveness, focus, work ethic, and also being a good loser. I was more of a lazy intellectual in poker, and when strategy became more widespread, the more competitive focused people surpassed me. I would still be able to coach successfully because of my knowledge of poker, but I wouldn't compare to top players if we all sat down and played. Will be even more interesting when some of them come here! And actually, the guy I beat HU in my PCA win, Isaac Haxton, has been one of the best in the world for years. Not only is he more focused, driven, and competitive than me, but he also excels more at the intellectual side of things: he is as close to a genius as I know in poker, and is far more interesting than I am. He appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast last year, suggest finding that

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

You mentioned you're not a good leader. It's good to diagnosis our weaknesses, but curious to know what you mean by that. You can always improve with experience.

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2 votes

daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

I'm a non confrontational pushover who believes people can make their own choices. Not the best motivational speaker and have a tough time being hard on people or conveying disappointment when people mess up. Long list of stuff, but realized I work better as a strategist/analyst than a leader or enforcer

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Makes sense. Yeah it's good to know your strengths and capitalize on those. At least if you are placed in a position where you had to lead in the future you'd know what areas to improve.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

I cross posted this over from the poker section since apparently I am a tagging newbie.
here was the initial thread: https://steemit.com/poker/@daut44/introductory-post-and-ama-ask-me-anything-about-being-a-professional-gambler

Will crosspost a few replies I made, but some of the replies were strictly technical basketball/poker questions that may or may not interest others

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

The other thread is so badass. He unleashes so much info in there!!

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goingpaper (44) · 8 years ago

Agreed check it out!

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rainingtrips (28) · 8 years ago

I'm a low stakes poker player and I found the other thread riveting. Looking forward to keeping up with both!

Still play much poker? Online, live, where do you play in USA?

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Don't play as much as previously but still play on bovada occassionally. Mostly play PLO cash now

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

What's your Daily Fantasy Football strategy? Never played daily before, just have done the typical season-long ones for years.

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2 votes

daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

There are different subsections of DFS football which require different strategies. I play mostly 1 on 1 ( heads up matches), and the strategy there is basically to project all the relevant players and make the highest projected lineup you can given the salary restraints

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10 votes

steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Who's your favorite professional poker player and why?

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

An internet player named Ben Tollerene. Am on my phone for next 2 days without computer access, but search for him on the Joe Ingram Poker Life Podcast. He is a brilliant game theoretician, and probably the best in the world at a 4 card poker game called Omaha.

There are some other favorites for various reasons: Scott Seiver for being all around amazing, Phil Ivey for his years of dominance as the best player from 2002-2011, Negreanu for ambassador reasons, Jason Mercier for being the real life version of the terminator, and the list could go on for hundreds of names. These are the truly interesting people from poker, and I hope I can act as a gateway for them to this site

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10 votes

steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

I will check out Ben. Wow you'll be even more of a superhero if you bring other guys on this platform! How did you find Steemit btw?

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

Ben's interviews (more of a conversation really) on Joe Ingram's podcasts are great.

I dove headfirst into cryptocurrency research this week, and decided to do a cursory overview of the cryptos with the highest market caps and came across steem. Loved the concept because I've been posting on forums for 15+ years now. The downside is obvious though, lots of useless and/or plagarized content to filter through to get good stuff, but worth it for monetary incentive. And still plenty of great content around these parts. Great idea though, am on board

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Amazing how quickly you got here after diving into crypto research.. but great to have you on board!

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

What brought you to steem? Any blogs of yours I should check out?

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steemrollin (69) · 8 years ago

Just been following the Bitshares ecosystem since the beginning of 2015 so fortunately had the inside track to Steem. Hmm.. usually just write about marketing/business ideas for Steem/Steemit. This is a popular one that I think is good for people who want to understand the money/value part of Steem and digital assets in general: Steem: Where DOES the money come from?

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

Phil was the best player I have ever seen live and Daniel was a cool dude. Bring them over here and lets get a decentralized poker app on steemit!

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

I would like to know this too. I watched Phil Ivy, some other famous pros and Larry Flint play in a cash game once at the Hustler Casino and Phil was a badass.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Want to make this its own comment, because I feel like in a number of replies so far I've mentioned how there are many more interesting poker stories out there.

I don't mean to paint myself as an uninteresting person. It's just that my poker playing story is common. There are many better and/or more colorful poker players who have traveled to greater parts of the world, played for bigger stakes, had more success, or have funnier stories with far more interesting poker playing stories than I have. But what is interesting about my story is that people from the different cross sections of my gaming career would find other parts fascinating.

-Successful Starcraft players would find my starcraft story dull, as I never really achieved that much, but they would love my poker story.

-Successful and top poker players would find my poker playing story as a common occurrence, but they would be enthralled by my DFS career and particularly excited about my poker backing business as that is a huge area of poker where I have unique experiences in.

-Successful DFS players would find my DFS career boring, but likely find my poker career very interesting. And the poker players that also play DFS would probably find my starcraft or poker staking careers as interesting.

There's definitely something for everyone here, and am happy to answer any poker playing questions, but it's just the one area where I view my story as the most common.

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

Ryan lets get these guys over here!! I would love to hear all their stories. If some of the poker heavyweights were on here and reminisced among themselves I could only omagine some of their stories.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

I'll link the thread to my twitter in a few days and explain the concept to the poker world. Smart people have been making detailed forum posts for 10+ years with no reward, having an incentive to blog and reply will definitely bring people over

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

Rad.

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marko911 (25) · 8 years ago

Hey there, question about daily fantasy: How exactly do you research which players to play on a given day? Any strategies or vital resources online you use? I been dabbling for fun in Draftkings soccer as I only watch european soccer.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Important things to look at are sportsbook lines and player stats/matchups. I haven't played much soccer, but it's always a great way to get interested in a new sport.

But for instance in baseball, when picking a pitcher you generally choose the largest favorite with the best strikeout prop. Also look at opposing team's implied run total, pitcher's game logs and try to pick the best choice salary wise. Then for hitters you generally choose the best $/pt values to fill out your roster alongside elite players in great matchups. The hitters usually come from highest team total games and players towards top of batting order. Or anyone who plays in colorado cause those games get a little nutty

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

How do you like it for soccer? I assume you were a big fan before playing. From what I've heard about DFS soccer, it has interesting scoring which makes roster decisions different than you would expect. For instance I heard owning players who take corner kicks is important because you get more points for crosses than you should?

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marko911 (25) · 8 years ago

You really have to follow the league and each team's in form players during the season in EPL. Crosses give a lot of points so if you manage to take fullbacks (wing defenders) who bring in a lot of crosses for a low salary they can make the difference. Its super fun because I watch a shitload of soccer as it is so this just makes it that much more fun to follow the games on Saturday/Sunday mornings.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Yup makes everything more interesting. Did you come into DFS as a hardcore fan of one club? And has that changed to you caring more about individual players now?

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marko911 (25) · 8 years ago

Im hardcore fan of Barcelona but I watch EPL the most apart from barca. Im not die hard for anyone in EPL but I do like Liverpool in recent seasons so I will be following them the most. No, I dont really care more about individual players now that I play the games, you find that you won't really pick the exact same players for some positions all the time, and strikers won't win you the most points every week. Only time I've started to really just push for a single guy during a game is if I was doing really well for that contest and that player was a very low % pick , but that hasnt happened too often.

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

@marko911 Who is your favorite EPL team? I don't really have one but if I had to pick I would say Arsenal because they are the only team that plays similar to my favorite team in the world, Barcelona. Soccer or futbol as I call it, even though I live in the US, along with basketball are my two favorite sports.

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marko911 (25) · 8 years ago

Well I'm a huge barca fan so we're on the same boat here. Right now I'd say Liverpool are who I'll be pulling for this season, you will find they are going to play a very exciting style under Klopp. Arsenal need an overhaul, they played similar to barca a few seasons ago but I wouldn't put them in the same category anymore. You wont go wrong watching Liverpool this season I can almost guarantee that :)

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

@marko911 Hell yea, a fellow Barca fan!! Arsenal definitely fell off. I'll check some Liverpool games but I am one of the few who isn't a huge EPL fan. I'm not a huge fan of the long ball and while the EPL is more competitive as a whole, it's just not top tier anymore. The last time they won a CL was Chelsea and that final was terrible. Bayern Munich had 31 shots to 1 Chelsea shot and Chelsea ended up winning in PK's. That was one of the most lopsided finals I have ever seen but I guess thats futbol.

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smuft (25) · 8 years ago

Hello Mr. Daut,

I have 2 questions for you.

How long would it take a dedicated intelligent young man to become a profitable DFS player? Very profitable?
What is the DFS industry outlook like at the moment? popularity, laws, recreational:professional player ratio, things like that.

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razvanelulmarin (72) · 8 years ago

Hey, man! Amazing stories! Are you on rocket.chat? If you can join would be great. would love to have a chat with you about all this. Thanks a bunch and keep at it!!

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

What's rocket.chat? As you can guess by that question, I am not on there =)

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razvanelulmarin (72) · 8 years ago

https://steemit.chat/home get in there and please reply here iwth your name in there. I'll look you up.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

Will give it a look in a couple days. On the road til Monday, thanks, the chat sounds like something I'd enjoy being a part of

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Will try to hop in the chat tonight or tomorrow. In the meantime wrote a new blog for my suggestion to improve the site: https://steemit.com/steemit/@daut44/steemit-needs-to-change-its-reward-system-to-better-incentivize-intelligent-discourse-in-blogs

@domavila check it out

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Hey man. I hopped in the chat, made my username the same as here: daut44

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago (edited)

What is rocket.chat? I have heard it mentioned on here I few times. I guess I'll have to google it.

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https://steemit.chat/home

razvanelulmarin (72) · 8 years ago

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quynhtn (40) · 8 years ago

When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. @daut44

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

The night is always darkest before the dawn

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numbersguru (28) · 8 years ago

Which DFS platform do you normally use? I have been using DraftKings for the past year and I have no major complaints, but just wondering if there are any better platforms out there.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

NFL: I play draftkings, fanduel, yahoo, fantasydraft, and fantasyaces
NBA: Draftkings, fanduel, yahoo, fantasydraft
PGA: draftkings, fantasydraft

Both DK and FD have advantages over the other. For instance FD shows how each individual lineup is doing on the website, while DK does a poor job of this. FD makes it easy to cancel contests and it is a nightmare on DK. On the other hand, editing and splitting lineups on DK is easy but a burden on FD.

I would suggest playing FD as well. And if you greatly prefer one choose that

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goose (56) · 8 years ago

Do you know about the organization Raising for Effective Giving? https://reg-charity.org/

They evaluate the effectiveness of charities in a much more careful way than other charity evaluating organizations. A lot of professional poker players such as Martin Jacobson pledge 2% or more of their winnings. In fact, it started out as an organization of professional poker players.

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago (edited)

@daut44 Right on, you posted in introduce yourself. Too bad you couldn't just change your tag because the original thread was so badass!! I learned and had more fun talking to you in that one post than I have my whole entire time on steemit. No offense to you other steamers but this dude is straight up interesting.

If you don't mind and with your permission , is it OK if I blog about your introduceyourself. If there is one thing I find value in its information and stories and you have a sh#it ton of both. No one really follows me or listens to my posts but people need to hear your stories. I have always wanted to be a professional poker player but I chose the music and trading route instead. Also, the more people who follow you means the more you post which in turn means I get to hear more stories and insights into your techniques and mental state. I'm alturistic and love my fellow man but I would be lying if I didn't admit I'm doing it so you post a lot and I can pick your mind about this upcoming basketball season. Just let me know if it's cool and I will do it. I will never shill my own post and the blockchain will attest to that but I really want you to get some exposure on here.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Yup go right ahead! Appreciate it

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago (edited)

Word. I will do it if this post isn't huge by tomorrow morning. I hate to shill because it's not in my character and like I said earlier, no one really follows me or reads my posts but if one person who is interested in games, poker, gambling, mathematics and sports learns about this thread I will have done my job.

Back to that bluff. What did you put him on when you reraised and then what did you put him on when he went over the top and bluffed you? I have to know!

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

I thought he had missed hearts when he bet and thought he had missed hearts when he shoved. I actually tanked a while, mostly hollywooding, but thinking that I didnt believe him and that I wish I could call haha

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

Right on. This story is especially rad because you beat him. He never should have showed you those cards, you made him pay for that later when you took first. I look forward to more of your stories and can't wait for basketball season. I don't really gamble on sports I just want to hear what you think of my Lakers once this season starts. Whats your favorite basketball team? Please don't say the warriors.

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daut44 (63) · 8 years ago

Replying here since I couldn't reply on other comment on phone. Don't really have a favorite team since my allegiance shifts based on who I play that day in daily. But my favorite players are demarcus cousins and westbrook, and gun to my head favorite team was thunder last year

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domavila (57) · 8 years ago

Right on. Westbrook is my favorite player right now too! Don't tell my Lakers. He might me one on the most talented athletes I have ever seen. When I watched him play in that game where he got a triple double in one half my mind was blown. Of course you know my favorite player is Kobe and that goes without saying. Even if you take away all his accomplishments his shear willpower and determination alone would make him my top player. Some of my favorite moments; are the two free throws with the torn achilles, 81, when he choose to pass instead of shoot in game 7 of the NBA finals against Boston (my favorite moment in sports history) and of course 60 on his last game of his career. That game was completely insane, I was smiling for two weeks after that once in a lifetime performance.

I like Kyrie Irving too, he has that mamba mentality as does Westbrook.

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