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Note: This is a sensitive topic we are discussing. I don't disrespect anyone, its just perception of self consciousness. Please let us know your views on this topic.
I have seen people attacking atheists all over their non conformance to the God. Question is why should i believe in your idols. I say proudly that i don't believe in God. But my character and existence is not defined by my faith. My faith is personal to my inner consciousness. And until and unless it doesn't harm someone else, no one has the right to point his finger. I don't believe in God, but in-fact, i believe in some higher power, not definitely, but i don't deny the probability of existence though.
Its foolish to think that we are the greatest creature in this vast universe. For sure there might be some other life forms, which we call aliens, somewhere out there. May be they are our Gods. In that case there would be some other life form who would even be more advanced than those aliens. They would be their Gods then. Its like a hierarchy in an organization.
Isn't it hilarious, Gods like a CEO or CTO of an organization. But again its up to your perception. Some find it convincing to believe in God and some doesn't. It doesn't make them any less human. As a matter of fact "A true disbeliever is the one who can become a true believer". But that can not and should not be forced. I found a nice article on why you should not believe in God'd existence and would like to share with you. But again it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. It only gives the perspective of person who wrote this. Its a long read. You can skip the quotations to move to next section.
" Most religions, at best, have some kernels of morality that come with a lot of baggage that make people do appalling things. The world can do without religion. Here are five reasons why.
No evidence
Most things which we accept, we accept on the basis of proof. That proof is not always rock solid (some of it is based on spurious media claims, for example) but there is a standard to which we hold most of our beliefs. Things that don’t meet that standard – the Tooth Fairy, let’s say – we discard as not impossible, but extremely unlikely.God, however, many people accept with no proof at all. Belief in God is a product of upbringing, societal and cultural convention, a desire for comfort and intellectual laziness.There is no evidence that God exists. You may have had some kind of personal experience – what we “anecdotal evidence” that has convinced you personally that he’s out there. But most people would concede that that kind of evidence is not evidence at all. It can’t be repeated under test conditions and there are other possible explanations for what may have happened.Fact: no-one has ever presented one iota of persuasive evidence that there is a God.
It’s illogical
In the absence of evidence, some people try to argue that there “must be” a God because nothing else makes sense.This “not making sense” ranges from the naïve (“I just feel that there must be a bigger purpose to life”) to the sophisticated arguments presented by theologians, philosophers and apologists.I cannot present and knock down every instance of these arguments here. However, I can say this: the idea that one can reason God into existence is a failed project. The best anyone has been able to do is to show that God could be an explanation for how the universe got here – and could be the “best available explanation”. I wouldn’t accept either of these, but even I did, they do not constitute a conclusive, logical position.If you are comfortable with a “maybe”, then you are welcome to it. But the existence of God has not been logically proven by anyone, ever.
The preponderance of suffering
In a recent interview, the British comedian Stephen Fry delivered a vicious, scathing attack on the Judeo-Christian God when asked what he would say if it turned out, after he died, that God did in fact exist. He called this God a “maniac”, pointing to the large amount of unnecessary suffering in the world which he, by definition, created and allows.The existence of suffering is an impossible problem for believers in an all-good, caring God to solve. Even if they use the wiggle room to argue that without some suffering there can be no charity; or that people who do wrong are punished, they cannot account for the suffering of innocent children and animals, or worse, the devout believers in their faith.What kind of God, we may ask – and Fry does, more colourfully – has created a world in which children die in floods, starve to death, perish in agony from TB and malaria? What kind of God allows people who worship and adore him to be murdered, raped, tortured and come to countless other hideous ends?This does not preclude the existence of any God, of course. God might be, as Fry has it, a maniac. He may be a vicious, sadistic God. Or, like the Greeks and Romans before us, he may be a pantheon of narcissistic Gods who have no interest in looking out for us.But a God who was benevolent and loving, as we are told the Christian God is, would never create the world we live in. Believing in him requires either shuttering yourself off from the carnage all around you; or crafting frankly ridiculous excuses (God works in mysterious ways?).
We don’t need him
This isn’t exactly an argument against the truth of God, but it is a reason to stop worrying about him. We don’t require God – he is an unnecessary addition to the universe, and it can get along perfectly well without him.The most common two arguments for why we “need” God is as a personal saviour or caretaker, and that without him (and religion) we would not know what is morally right and wrong.Let me start with the last first.Human morality is not brought into existence by God or the Bible. We do not require a commandment to tell us that killing is wrong, and we do not need the threat of eternal damnation to make us do what is right.To prove this I need only point out that most Western states operate on the basis of a constitution and the rule of law and have nothing to do with religion or the Bible. Killing someone has legal consequences, and most normal people with a conscience regard it as wrong without the need for a cosmic force to tell them.Oh, but I hear you say, surely these laws and rights have a Biblical origin?Do you really believe that? Do you think that pre-religious societies had no taboos in regard to the preservation of life, property and other things we hold dear? That a principle like “do unto others” would not naturally emerge from any group of sentient beings living in the same place?This is quite apart from the fact that many of the laws in the Bible are just wicked. We have not, thankfully and for the most part, transferred most of Leviticus and Deuteronomy into modern law. Those Islamic states who have, and which enforce Sharia law, are widely regarded as zones of horror by most sensible people.Then: do we need God as a personal saviour? Well, some people might. The idea of God might provide comfort and an explanation for the mysteries of the universe. However, it is misleading to say he is “needed”. Many people survive and thrive perfectly well without a God concept or religion – myself being one example. We do not rampage or lose our way or become outcasts. And so, whilst certain individuals may derive comfort from a belief in God – as is their right – this is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition for living a good life.
Life’s better without him
Religion is about control and limitation. Rules, laws and rituals that restrict and govern behavior. In some cases – say the genital mutilation of infants in barbaric rites of passage practiced by religions such as Judiasm – they actually persuade nice people to do awful things.Which is to say nothing of the countless other horrors committed in the name of God and religion. Suicide bombings, torture, genocide, forced marriages, unwanted babies, war – the list is endless.A life without religion and without God thus offers freedom from all of these miseries. It offers a person the opportunity to do what they like, in line with their own moral code, within the parameters of the society in which they live. Each decision to be taken is evaluated on its own merits, weighing up the pros and cons, and is not forced down a path by a pre-existing code of conduct dating from a time of ignorance and superstition. "
That's an interesting read. But again its a perspective of some person. I respect each and every person whether atheist or not. I myself have many instances of magical experiences, like existence of a helping hand during the time of crisis or have experienced Deja-vu. But i don't associate them with a mighty one, i consider it a life force. You can consider it as God. I would love to hear your experience if you believe in God or not and why.
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God is not an entity or a figurehead or a being. And the word "god" is such a misunderstood and misused term that I try to avoid using it.
God does not watch us, god does not get angry or pleased with us depending on what we do, and god does not grant some of our wishes and reject others. God is not an agent or an actor.
Therefore, I'll stop using the word "god," and instead use the word "divinity."
If there is divinity, then divinity is not a "being, " it is the ultimate ground of being. Divinity is the essence of the universe, and the essence of who we are. Divinity is life, in its fullest expression. Divinity is love.
I believe in divinity.
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The fact remains that "God" is a title --just as "Christ". Inside a family, there are persons with titles: "Father", "Mum", "Grandpapa", "Grannie". Those are their titles --not their names.
In the same fashion, you can get greatly confused when you refer as "God" to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God Most High, the One God, Creator and Redeemer... I myself prefer to call him Yahweh for instance...
:) Blessings...!
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I agree completely, but many people would say that God is actual the name of a "person/being" who lives up there in heaven.
As for Yahweh, isn't that just the Hebrew word for "god"? Or are there different connotations?
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Many people would be wrong then. :D
God is not his name, but one of many titles; do you have brothers and sisters? When speaking to them, how would you refer to your --common-- father?
"Dad", right?
Same here, he is God as he is Dad and as he is Christ... He is called "Abba Father". That does not mean it is how he is called...! How is your dad called? :)
Yahweh means "He who was, and is, and will be"; the actual word is lost to us --Yahweh is the closest "guess" from YHWH, the Tetragrammaton... Another one --quite distant-- being Jehovah...
Now, the Hebrew word for "God" is "El", plural "Elohim"; he was named in plural --millennia ago.
"EmmanuEL", for instance, means God among us~, so as you can see it can become a particle inside a word. Also ELyon, which means "God Most High"...
So no, Yahweh is definitely NOT Hebrew for "God", but for "He that is", or "I am that I am", how he called himself before Moses and others.
"Jesus", also, comes from Hebrew "Yahushua"; the "Yah" particle is short for Yahweh. :)
Blessings!
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You are speaking of the Dao, I see................
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This is a pretty big topic and the question is misleading. It isn't asking whether God exists but instead is asking why we should not believe in God. It is like whether we should not believe in Ambrosia (food of the Gods).
There are many reasons that one should not believe in a God. Placing faith in something outside of yourself absolves you of responsibility if you can convince yourself it is something that God "wants"... being prejudiced against others because they do not believe the same way that you do.
It is anti-progressive (once again if you convince yourself that it is God's will)... if God wanted me to fly he would have given me wings. Allowing faith in a God perversely dictate behaviour ... ask Aqsa Parvez - you cannot because her father and brother killed her. An honour killing which brought dishonour to an entire country.
People who believe in God tend to have a very narrow understanding of God. Imagine that you one of several people standing outside a house. Each looks into a different window and then describe what a house is. One person will say that is a place that you prepare food. Another will describe it as a place to sleep with a third might say nothing is there because the room that person looked at was unlit.
Part of the problem is that we do not know what God is. Some have this vision that God is some guy with a white beard looking at us (or is that Santa Claus). In my case I like to conceptualize God to be like a river going to the sea. Each of us are droplets within that river. While it is silly for a single droplet to dictate the direction the river will flow, a stream of droplets can cause the river to meander.
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This is something I've been thinking about a lot recently.
I've always been an Atheist. I just never really thought about it. My family never went to church except for my brother occasionally, so it just really wasn't part of my life at all. Then, a couple years ago, I began to think about philosophy and religion.
For the past year and a half-ish, I've been watching lots of Atheist youtube channels such as Armoured Skeptic and Logicked. I find their videos entertaining and also informative. In the past month, however, despite all of this, I have actually found myself feeling a pull towards religion, or at the very least, deism.
I've had a lot of experiences with deja vu, dreams, and other little strange occurrences, and I just generally feel this strange pull. I've been doing a lot of research on the Bible, the inconsistencies, the apologetics in response to those inconsistencies, etc. At this point, I don't think I consider myself a Christian or any other specific religion, but I definitely am no longer an Atheist. An agnostic theist, maybe?
Anyway, thanks for your post. Sorry if this comment was really rambly. I'm quite ill right now, so my brain is kind of all over the place.
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As i said, a true disbeliever can become a true believer. Who knows, may be you are on same path :) By the way, hope to see you well soon.
Can you let me know which channel you have been watching, i would like to see if interests me.
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Sure! Here are a couple of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/user/logicked
https://www.youtube.com/user/armouredskeptic
Also tons more like them are suggested here: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2of1bz/what_are_some_other_youtube_channels_like/
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I suggest you to read real biographies of prophets, their teachings & also as a muslim i want suggest you to read Quran.
I believe that all religions & ideologies are based on some realities but they have impurities mixed with them,so we should purify any ideology through research & we will find the reality.
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you're on the right path, but why/how do you follow 88 THOUSAND people??
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I'm wondering why @anniemohler is following so much people wondering how she even did it
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It is a VERY BIG topic @anniemohler, but I would like to comment if i may.
There is a FACT that we are all exist. And like all thing that exist, we require a CAUSE which means something can´t just come out from nothing...
So knowing that US has a beginning, is important to understand who is GOD is. Although we can explain how we did have a beginning (like the beginning of universe through BIG BANG) but we do not know what is the CAUSE of that beginning.
If you would say that I can´t prove there is a CREATOR or I can´t see what happen before it began then I would say neither can´t you DISPROVE it
And by observing the reality of our world and our existance, of how complex the human body or how the order of our solar system or how organized the colony of bees and ants in building and guarding their home..there is no reason for NOT believing to a CREATOR
Then you may ask, what was the CAUSE of the CREATOR and this question can be asked for ever and ever, which would leave us to NEVER been created.
An example: if you are a sniper that would shoot a target and you asked the confirmation of your commander, and your commander asked his superior and his superior asked his superior superior and go on unlimitedly, Then what happen is the shot will never be taken
So for a GOD to exist, it must require to exist without a BEGINNING therefore not requiring a CAUSE of the existance which means GOD is ETERNAL, TRANSCENDENT, and not bound by any of the boundaries HE created (whether it is time, space, or matter).
For instance, when Steve Jobs created an iPhone he doesn´t become the iPhone. And of course we can argue that God is ONE which makes the most sense and also to avoid the potential conflict between TWO or MORE disputing All Powerful GODS with conflicting interest.
I hope that would enlight your day a bit, if you want to discuss more I am more happy to do it:)
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I believe in God first and foremost because of his sacrifice upon the cross for the remission of my sins. I have spent most of my life reading the scriptures and the prophecies contained that establish Christ as God and Saviour are astonishing. The book of Revelations contains prophecy that is completely fulfilled down to this very day and age and is probably over 95% complete as these really are the last days. Revelation is the history of the church in the world from the time of Christ's death burial and resurrection to the current day. Each of the seven churches represent themselves on a timeline along with the each of the seven angels and the seven trumpets. How could these things be written and accurately portray the church in it's infancy as Christ began his thousand year reign upon the white horse followed by the red horse death and persecution the killing of christians, then the black horse the dark ages the burning of books, followed by the pale horse the confusion and misunderstanding of true Christianity. That is the thousand year reign it is represented by the four horsemen of the apocalypse. I can't go into all the details that make it so vivid and real because following that is the loosing of satan and the 5th trumpet wherein also it says that God would give us the star of David ~ shortly after the 1000 years the compilations of the bible were formed, then the reformation and the great awakening down to last church that Christ spews out of his mouth which is us Laodicea. There is so much revealed in Revelations that pertain to the past 2000 years. If I absolutely just went against God I would have to say Aliens from the future wrote the Bible to control whatever they could through religion. Or, I could just believe it and understand that there is a God that you can go to without religion and without anything and follow that God and receive forgiveness of sins because He says believe in me and you shall not be ashamed! I can guarantee 99.999% of churches are probably a sham but I also believe that is why Christ tells Laodicea behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. God has given us the ability to read and to be a living soul unlike animals we have to be responsible and search out the truth for ourselves. Sorry for being so long. I pray for everyone no matter skin color or what you believe, you probably need God if you don't have him. Seek and Ye shall find, Knock and it shall be opened.
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Thanks Rey for your point of view. I agree with everything you say.
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I think that you are close to the lord. Please ask him to help me with my faith.
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This is the guy who wrote the article- Jarred Cinman
Jarred Cinman is a digital native – quite literally in that he is the MD of NATIVE VML, one of the most important new local ad agencies. He is also the Chair of the IAB South Africa, the industry body that seeks to drive digital forward.
In 2015 he will have been in the digital industry in South Africa for 20 years. Among his defining traits are that he is a troublemaker, a vegan, an anti-theist, a writer and a musician. He has lived in Johannesburg his whole life.
For sure you can read that he is anti-theist and that explains all.
But my point of view is that. I am a believer. I think that God exist but he doesn't have to explain himself or he doesn't ask anyone to advocate him. He can explain himself simply. As you said or this Jarred said. In this " vast universe " we forget that there is a opposite power, an evil. That everyone avoid to mention and speak of. All accusations of course goes to God and he listen them and takes the responsibility for everything that he is created. But the damage, violence and killing happens because of Satan. Then if people say that God does not exist. Way they don't say the same about him. Then everything would be perfect right ? People live on their own no gods evil or good. Utopia right.
Now my understanding of all things that i believe.
God created everything in perfect order. (Because in theory of evolution at the beginning there was nothing and from that nothing was an explosion that created everything. As we see in nature and in all creation there is an intelligent design and order but what happens after explosion there is only a chaos) So God created a man and a women and give them the power of free will and the power to rule over everything. But only with one rule not to eat from the tree ,because they will surely die. And when the Eve was walking near the tree. The serpent which is also Satan by fraud cheated her eat the fruits of the tree. Then started the consequences of their doing and that all curse came to us all . Essentially every think that we experience is the consequences of our actions. And those who do not want to recognize these consequences and do not want to take responsibility for their work blame God in everything and think they can deny his existence.
In that i believe so help me God if im wrong. And sorry for so long explanation from me. Good luck with your next posts if you want to talk more just comment on my posts. Bye
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Because no creature I would want to worship would actually desire worship. Because I've noticed believers wait for their god to do stuff for them often passing up the chance to do it themselves. Because the bible makes no sense and I can't see a deity that'd kill children as a good deity. It's not just that I don't believe in the biblical god, if it indeed existed as described in the bible I'd be out to destroy it over its cruelty.
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Yes and here it is :)
source : http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com.tr/2009/10/does-god-exist.html
FD
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I'm with George Carlin. I'll send my prayers to Joe Pesci because that man with a baseball bat seems to be able to work miracles.
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I once was an agnostic. Through my journey in life I have come to not only a belief in God but a personal relationship with Him. Even Satan believes in God. It takes more than that. Through my journey I can say I have had a number of God moments that have left me in awe. Although God may not be scientifically proven you can only accept him on faith. If you try to intellecualize it, it will not work. You reach him through the heart not the brain. We did not come into existence by accident. Thanks for sharing as I appreciate the subject.
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I agree with you sir, I believe god with my heart.Although i am not a practicing believer but God is the main part of my every day life, my feelings ,my thoughts ,actions & decisions.
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Thank you for sharing your experiences. It is true, you cannot intellectualize God; doesn't work like that. The more you do that the farther away he seems to be. It is all about the experience, the relationship, and the spirituality. Religion sucks, by the way. I had a friend (she's been out of my life for a while) who was an agnostic; she said she didn't care to believe or not to. I think she was bluffing, because we all need something to cling to. We are not made of iron, stone or steel...
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True my friend!
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Indeed! God bless you.
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My only comment to this is that I think you're missing out on some of the most powerful, uplifting feelings and experiences of this life if you don't take an open-minded look at who Jesus is and what He came to this earth to do for us. This one man, a proven historical figure, did something over 2000 years ago that has profoundly influenced over 2 billion people and His presence is still felt every bit as powerfully today. While you're checking out those agnostic sites given to you by a poster above, go to YouTube and check out the Alpha Film Series. Episode 2 is excellent. This is the only one I've watched since we'll be doing a study on them after the first of the year. They are done by a "barrister" who set about to prove there was no God and instead, proved to himself there was. I hope you take the time to look into them. What may have started out as a provocative marketing tactic could very well prove to be the most important thing you've ever done. God works in mysterious ways.... :-)
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The writer of the article makes some interesting points but also I think muddies the water a little bit. Believing in God and adhering to a religion are not exactly hand in hand. Now the author hits the nail on the head when it come to religion, it is not a path to God as it is more a system of control. As are most of the religious texts that we use today. The Bible is not more than a set of rules and stories meant to teach and warn us against bad behavior.
Now there might be a god or gods. These gods could be aliens or some trans-dimensional being and not so much the omnipresent all powerful being that guides our lives but an artifact of encounters from times long ago when the human brain could not compute what they were seeing.
What I think we really miss that the two sides here, those that believe in God and those that do not, are really looking to believe in similar ideals. We want to know that we are not alone in the universe. Be it God or something else, we are scared that we are all alone. We want, we need to believe in that there is more.
Who know's, we might find one day that our need or sense of something greater is byproduct of idea that the cells and molecules that form us are the same cells ran through their bodies. There cells have passed information over centuries giving our bodies and minds a feeling of a greater presence in this world.
I know I was all over the place, but it was an interesting and thought provoking article.
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Hi! I am a robot. I just upvoted you! I found similar content that readers might be interested in:
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2015-02-26-the-five-best-reasons-not-to-believe-in-god
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This article is mired in a kind of psychologism which mars it a little bit.
The question is not why we should believe in God, but whether or not He exists. We must focus on objective reality in this matter; a more important question could hardly be imagined, and we cannot allow our personal biases or prejudices to contaminate it.
That said, I have a strong sense that there is a power, a being who guides our ends. This much has survived the various spiritual deprivations that I have endured at the hands of this anonymized, unrooted existence... but I find it so difficult to take that final, beautifully naive step, to grasp the promise, the assurance, that 2000 years ago, in a remote province of Roman Judea, the being who created the entire universe sent his son down for the purpose of the forgiveness of humankind's sins.
I have to confess that I don't understand, even on a very abstract level, the significance of the crucifixion, why it was necessary, and how it achieved what it did. I don't understand how people can believe without having a theory about it.
But perhaps (going back to my first point about bias), perhaps this is just the effect of my aseptic millieu? Throughout history, it's been the rule that people believe, act, feel, and accept, long before they analytically understand. But if it's contingent on feeling, then why don't I feel anything?
I don't say that to be cruel, or evil... my heart is hardened. And more and more it feels like everything I say is just an excuse... I mean, I understand everything already. But at the same time, I don't. I feel a powerful resistance, even an antipathy to the whole idea. Anyone who grasps the truth, please pray for me, please help me!
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Yes! It makes complete and perfect sense that the universe and everything you see around you was created from some molecules floating through space and colliding. Oh wait, where did the molecules come from. If your answer is that they were always just there for an infinite amount of time, and they never had a beginning, the argument for God is much more compelling. My favorite person who has ever lived on this planet was Carl Sagan. He had a brilliant mind and he was a master wordsmith. On this particular topic, however, we disagree.
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Annie, it sounds like you are between pathways. You are not a true atheist but an agnostic because you believe in a higher power.
Finding your own "Faith" is a personal journey. Modern Christianity will only get you lost. I suggest you do a little exploring about Orthodox Christianity. A very good book to read is "Christ the External Dao." The book merges the concept of the Dao IS God which is a non-entity.
Let me share this with you from someone that has walked your path.
Only modern Christianity has defined God as an entity. God is NOT an entity. It is given many names, such as the father but that title doesn't mean it is an entity but a "source." That source is also called the Dao which many eastern religion mentions. The Dao is also your definition of "life force."
The Great Shism or the split in Christianity created the downfall of Christianity. This created the Catholic faith or the "false faith." I am going to brief about this as possible. During this time, there were priests (now called Catholic priests who wanted power.) They created the split from the original Christianity (which is Orthodox Christianity or Eastern Christianity) so that can declare their power in society by making a claim that only the priest has the priviledge to communicate with God to create some kind of authority. This was the primary reason for the Great Schism of Christianity because of the hunger for power by these priests.
Ever since then the Christian religion or modern Christianity has been false teaching. This is also the cause of the misunderstanding of God. Eastern Christianity or Orthodox Christianity does NOT follow the ego or declaring they are special individuals or the "greatest creature in this vast universe." Giving up your ego is called humility which stops you in creating blind illusion of yourself.
Orthodox Christianity teaches you to follow your "higher level of consciousness" which allows you to connect with the "source." Orthodox Christianity doesn't teach you dogma which is right or wrong. Accepting something without questioning is called Dogma that is "blind faith."
Orthodox Christianty teaches you to "experience" God & NOT accept it blindly.
The true definition of the "sin" means missing the mark that means separating yourself from the "source."
The best way to describe this is Karma. Karma is your connection with the source and eventually all your actions will be judge and is a direct result of the changes in your life.
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I could not ever Re-Steem this.
Although, I could tell you about my own experiences.
I was a Catholic before, ah oh God how much suffering that brought me!
I wanted to die at some point. I was greatly depressed, so I began a psychiatric treatment... Things were not OK in my life.
But then I met these great friends of the family --they were the 1st ones to talk to me about the Christ.
Henceforth my life changed... I changed.
I began at college with a new hope within, and a smile towards the world.
There was no suffering anymore, and I got to know a bunch of cool people, who remain close to me to this day --in church and outside of it.
So I know he is real, because he introduced himself to me with one Name above all names: Jesus Messiah.
Godspeed to you and God-bless. Let's keep in touch.
:D
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God bless you
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Amen brother, God bless you too.
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