My little brother in 8th grade told me something interesting yesterday. He told me how this “girl” got suspended in his school for master-baiting during a class…Me and my older brother then looked at him in astonishment…We thought he was surely lying.. So we started yelling at him and telling him not to say things like that… But he assured us it was true…He defended his case by saying it was a “transgender”…Then all of a sudden this made more sense.. My little brother then when on to say how there are a total of 3 transgender students in his school…. This AMAZED me. I didn’t have ONE transgender person in any of my schools my entire life….My little brother is in 8th grade and he has 3!! He also went on to explain that they have tons of homosexuals as well..This to to me was strange..
What does this tell you?? It tells you that people are only transgender because they are given the option of being transgender… Transgender people account for less then .01% of the population… And they want to build separate bathrooms for them??? Think about that!! We only have “boy” and and “girl” bathroom because its 50% of the population…It doesnt make any sense to mandate bathrooms that account for practically nobody…It seems like there is a bigger agenda at hand…
Bruce Jenner to me is one of the most evil men to ever live… All he has done is taken his body and deformed it for attention, endorsements, and more attention…And he got the HERO AWARD? WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE…
What did Bruce Jenner do beside confuse millions of children into thinking about being a transgender?
If you say “well you should always be who you really are inside” in defense, you prove my case. You should be happy for who you are and how God made you. If you are confident about who you are you won’t feel the need to change your sexuality.
Disclaimer
Everyone has a right to an opinion, and you certainly do. I know nothing that anyone can say will change your mind, but just because you have a few people agreeing with you, you shouldn't think that everyone thinks the way you do. Most people would be afraid of confrontation and just move along.
I want to stress that my disagreement with your stated viewpoint here is not to change your mind or say you are wrong, but merely to voice an alternate viewpoint, one that I think is important in this situation.
My opinion
The world is fortunately becoming a much more tolerant one, and people who would normally have to live as outcasts, or stay in the closet and deal with serious health issues their entire lives are able to live as themselves at last. This is a good thing for people's mental well being, and our society in general. Bigotry in whatever it's form is a form of bullying, and not acceptable.
When children have gender dysphoria, it's not just a case of them getting taken to the doctor's and getting a quick snip. It's a quite involved and serious matter. They need to make as certain as possible that what they are doing is best for the child. It's certainly not a bad idea if uncertain to postpone a decision for as long as possible, but in some cases it really is what is best for the child. We certainly don't want kids suiciding because they aren't comfortable in their own bodies.
Kids of all different types get engaged in socially unacceptable sexual behaviour at school. It certainly was the case when I went to school many, many years ago, and I'm sure it's no different now. It's possibly even worse today because of the over-sexualization of just about everything in modern society. The only difference is in this case is that the child in question was vilified because both a) she got caught, and b) because of a general bias against her gender identity.
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Much to the contrary, this is not the case. At least not everywhere.
For your information: http://www.medicaldaily.com/gender-reassignment-surgery-now-available-oregon-minors-without-parental-consent-342670
With all due respect, anyone who claims that there is not an agenda to push homosexuality and gender confusion on the masses is either in denial, or too afraid of being branded a regressive bigot to see and speak the truth.
As I stated in my comment before, there are--as you say--those who are naturally predisposed to this type of thing. But, for the overwhelming majority it is a very standard case of learning human behaviour from others.
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I agree with your hypothesis that the media and education system has an agenda to push, regarding homosexuality and sexual-identity, but I disagree on your conclusion for why they're doing this.
I'm with @triddin on this debate. This isn't some type of divide and conquer scheme, nor an attempt to manipulate the masses into becoming sexually docile (regarding man/woman relationships), rather a push for acceptance/ tolerance of diversity - a fight against general bigotry.
And, as @triddin rightly pointed out, what we're witnessing now isn't a greater percentage being converted, regarding their sexual preferences/ identities, rather a greater percentage of a group, which has always been ostracized all throughout human history, feeling more comfortable coming out into the open about their "not normal" feelings and behavioral tendencies.
One problem that we're collectively facing RIGHT NOW, IMO, is our mistaking the words "natural" for "normal". Normal means that the noun in question is within a certain range of the mean average (of some type of curve, such as a bell-curve distribution). Natural means, more or less, acting true to one's own nature - being open and accepting of how "God made us".
One can be the most natural person in the world, allowing not one dissenting opinion to make one iota of difference in their ways of thinking and behaving, being completely honest with oneself and others, at all times, and always living from one's own heart, doing what they truly believe to be the right thing for themselves and the people around them - if we could see their true motivations, we might even consider them to be saints - yet, the world will see them as everything but normal; moreover, they'll feel compelled to ridicule them, shame them, and exile them from society.
We're now beginning to experience a paradigm shift, wherein individuals are coming to the realization that every human is after the same goal - we want to free the personality that "God" (nature) gave us; we want to be true to ourselves without the threat of persecution for choosing to walk that path.
Some brave souls dive into their freedom in the midst of heavy persecution. Jesus Christ, whether or not he really existed, is an example of such a being. He lived his truth despite the rock-flinging that it brought onto him. He was considered a very dangerous and evil man by many living in his time. Presently, he's considered the saint of all saints by millions of people around the world and the only son of God by hundreds of millions of others. Most importantly, and most pertinent to this debate, he was the harbinger of a great paradigm shift that would soon follow.
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I don't understand how you can disagree with me. I stated that the motives behind this agenda are unclear to me, so I'm not sure what there is for you to disagree with.
I have expressed my distrust in the argument that there have always been great numbers of homosexuals and transgenders in a comment below, so I won't repeat myself here. But, in addressing your comment about the group being ostracized I would ask why you believe this? Could it be because this is portrayed in the media, TV and on Hollywood movies?
If one is pushing such an agenda, the first logical step would be to lay the foundations for which people who oppose that agenda can be painted the villains. This is why you see historical depictions of persecuted gays, when in actuality, this wasn't the case any more so than we see today.
The definition of ostracized, when contrasted with the prominence of such names as Leonardo Di Vinci and Oscar Wilde--whom were both homosexual, refutes your argument entirely. If they had been ostracized by their peers for their sexual proclivities then we, today, would not know their names.
This definition, though one I would agree with, is far too subjective and could easily be used to argue against the point you're trying to make. Where as some people see being true to one's own nature as being true to your mind if you feel you are not the gender your body dictates, another could argue that it means being true to your physicality, because God made you that gender.
Again I would have say that I don't feel that transgenders are persecuted any more than obese people, anorexic people, blacks, Jews, those with mono-brows or buck-teeth. We are just lead to believe so because any time there is an instance of an attack on a transgender or homosexual, the media rinses the fuck out of it so as to make everybody believe that there is this widespread hatred towards them, when all you have to do is go out into the world to find out that there is not.
There are those that disagree with it, and don't think it's natural. That doesn't mean that they're unwilling to tolerate those who have chosen that path, or accept that they may still be a good person. The media loves to hype up any instances of hate crimes so as to perpetuate the division between the people and reinforce the people's belief that we are many, rather than one. They need to do this, because when the day comes that we do realise that we are one, change will happen on that very day.
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Nested Reply @son-of-satire
You put forth a cogent position. It appears to me that you have a bit of knowledge in the area of human psychology, vis-à-vis neuro-plasticity, a very interesting topic that I admittedly have little knowledge about.
Thanks for participating in this thought-provoking discussion, btw. I truly appreciate it.
That first point, to which I wholeheartedly agree, is the culprit, regardless of whether sexual orientation is strictly genetic (choice is ruled out) or not. I think your next statement takes a rather large leap from that foundation, and I'm not so convinced that people would be able to physiologically change themselves to such a degree (completely flipping their sexual orientation) by mere will , but perhaps there is something to the neuro-plasticity case that you brought up later on in your post.
I agree on your statements about the unconscious mind, but I posit that the case you brought up about certain people being predisposed to "becoming" gay through their ways of empathizing with homosexuals are latently gay; that's to say, they were born with a predisposition to homosexuality. In other words, they may not have had any choice in becoming gay and this unique manifestation of empathy was perhaps only the circumstantial "gateway" to pass the message from the unconscious to the conscious. They may well have discovered it in some other way had they not done so via the empathy pathway.
Think of it like an urge that's dormant from the perspective of the conscious mind, due to applying various psychological mechanisms of suppression, but alive and dripping with anticipation to be realized and expressed at the unconscious level. There's a certain type of pressure there that builds up over time and must eventually be acknowledged, or else it will find some way to uncontrollably leak out. You could say empathizing with homosexuals is a type of "faucet" for that realization to leak into the conscious awareness, but there are a million and one other ways that it can happen.
And it's my position that the only reason people ever feel they "discover" their homosexual tendencies is because they were conditioned by their upbringing to hate, fear and suppress it. The truth of it rests in the unconscious, irregardless of conscious awareness of it, or lack thereof.
The symptoms of suppression can be so strong that a homosexual may not even realize that he/ she is such, whilst others around them are very aware of them being homosexual or, at the very least, exhibiting strong homosexual signals that leave them with little doubt. This is because, as you mentioned, the unconscious mind controls most of our movements (both of thought and action). The mind of a man in denial may not allow itself, for a time, to see the signs, but, for those not under such hypnosis, the signs can be overtly obvious. In any case, it will eventually come to the surface. How it's dealt with when it surfaces will depend a lot on how open one is to accepting it and this openness, or lack thereof, comes mostly down to what the person in question was conditioned to believe about it and how deeply rooted those beliefs became over time.
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My apologies on the misunderstanding. You're right that you didn't take a clear position (conclusion) on the motives of the agenda. My argument is with your position of sexual preferences/ leniencies being a choice (shown in the quote from your earlier post, below).
Perhaps it's just a classical case of two proponents arguing from opposing sides of the nature vs nurture debate, with no real way of proving who's right, if either, between the two of them, but I take the opposite stance. I'm convinced that sexual orientation is a cemented "genetic stamp", determined prior to one's birth. As an example, I don't think there's a single case of homosexuality as a choice; it's always a deep impulse that's instinctual (inborn), which determines what sexually satisfies an individual.
Now, I believe that society (nurture) has a way of building up a delusion or denial of one's, what for a time are latent (pre-pubescent period), sexual tendencies; hence, causing deep sexual suppression. I believe we manage this, as a society, by educating our young to focus on conforming to norms (being "normal"), as opposed to listening to themselves, and this is where the persecution comes in - it's generally a very subtle thing.
When a child hears the word "faggot" thrown around as a derogatory, dirty, word and then hears that word interchanged (as if synonymous) with the words "gay" and "homosexual", that builds a connotation that reflects negatively within the individual. It can, and often will, build up bigotry around the label(s) that's most associated with the words and create shame and disgust within the individuals that experience homosexual feelings, which is, IMO, one of the major causes of suppressing them.
Naturally, as society makes a greater and greater effort to drive home the idea that homosexuality is both natural and "normal", people will start to make looser and looser connections with the aforementioned derogatory connotations and become more open to accepting those individuals to whom those labels are given. Unsurprisingly, it's at such a time that suddenly more and more people with homosexual orientation feel less fear to bring it out into the open.
People generally don't want to feel different, that's where the majority of the ostracization/ persecution comes from - it's mostly psychological and self-imposed, but the position is affirmed and strengthened by outward appearances of disapproval, and the bigotry does exist, of course. This is why I brought up the "normal" vs "natural" issue. People unwittingly equate nature with norms, when, in fact, norms can simply be the result of a group of cowards that are too fearful to be themselves, being ruled by society imposed conformity.
It may still not be normal to be homosexual, but it's very natural.
Of course, it may also be natural, at least for a time, for the collective gene pool of a species (homosexuality exists in much, if not all, of the animal kingdom) to attempt removing those genetic lines that are predisposed to producing latent homosexuality, I can't say for sure. My gut tells me that there's a real benefit to having subsets of sexual variations, ranging from moderate to extreme, and that our collective genetic pool is always striving to maintain a specific balance to keep that benefit in order. Evolution is a complex beast.
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Yes, I believe you are correct. That is exactly what we are discussing when we get down to the very core of the subject matter, and if thousands of years and millions of great minds could not have provided a clear answer, it's very doubtful that we shall here.
Nevertheless, there is a couple of things you mentioned that I would like to propose a dichotomous perspective towards, much like in the case of when you stated that natural means being true to what God has given you.
While this may be true for some, my personal observation in life has shown me that it does not apply for everyone. The human mind is a very complex thing and each and every person has a different way of processing information, just as we all have a unique way in which we are affected by that information.
Where some would hear bigotry and then end up a bigot themselves, there are some who empathize with the victims of this bigotry more than with the bigot. If one has also suffered persecution or ridicule in their life, then that empathy can manifest itself in a strong connection to the victims (in this case homosexuals). Now for most, this would be nothing more than a shared understanding of the plight of life, yet for others, that shared persecution could create the illusion that one must also be gay and that's why they have suffered in the same way. What we consciously think about, is only 10% of what actually goes on in our mind. The unconscious mind makes more decisions for us than we are aware, and is for the most part, the true driving force behind our life choices and the path we take.
Neuro-plasticity has revealed to us the complexities of the brain, and how the more we see something the stronger the bonds in our minds associated with that particular thing becomes. So someone who was heterosexual and as such was not sexually aroused by the thought or sight of another of the same gender, after being subjected to same-sex couples showing signs of sexual arousal numerous times, will eventually develop a neuro-pathway in their mind that will tell them, on an unconscious level, that they should be aroused by the same sex.
Cognitive dissonance can prove to be a powerful defender of such shifts in perspective, but sooner or later, long term subjection to this sort of thing is always going to lead to that pathway being formed in the brain.
While there are powerful hereditary factors determined by genes relating to personality, I think a notable one would be temperament, these are determined by hormone regulation and even they can be ultimately overridden by nurture over extended periods of time, because human behaviour is mostly learned, not created.
I think for every person trying to fit in, there is another fighting for uniqueness, especially in today's world were the public education system cripples our sense of individuality before we even get the chance to see it develop. I strongly hold the position that a number of homosexuals and transgenders are driven to their decision by a desire to stand out amongst the crowd after leading a life of essential invisibility.
My point is, there are a number of root psychological causes that could lead one to override their body chemistry on a subconscious level and become genuinely homosexual or transsexual. I am not asserting that there are 49/50 in this category who are pretending for the sake of it. No. Quite to the contrary, I believe that they believe they were born that way and it was inevitable to happen. I just think that 49/50 of them, having not been subjected to the perverted nature of the world we reside in, would not have been confused about their sexuality nor their gender.
I still think that we must all exercise tolerance in everything we do, but that doesn't mean we need to exercise ignorance. If you allocate even two hours to look into the pioneers of the LGBT community over the last few decades, where they received funding from etc, it becomes evident that there are forces out there who are intentionally exposing the masses to this on an unprecedented level. It's not about acceptance. It's not about unity and coming together. It's, I believe, something a lot more sinister. One thing is for certain though, we will never find out what the true agenda is as long as everyone wants to think that there is nothing going on, or are too afraid to express any concerns they may have for fears of being labelled closed minded(ironically).
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I don't understand how you can write this and not see how it's so totally and completely not right.
You're saying that “these people” aren't getting it any worse than they deserve? For being different? WAT?!
They don't deserve to be treated any different AT ALL… No honestly, they don't deserve it, they deserve respect. They actually deserve a lot more respect because of how they wake up and face the world every day, as full as it is with bigotry. But at minimum they deserve the exact same measure of respect that is afforded everyone else.
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Perception is an interesting concept. I write a sentence, that to most, clearly implies that we are all victims of persecution in one way or another, for one reason of another.
You perceive this to mean that I'm saying they deserve it so that you can justify sending me a pissy message. After the ignorant comment I just responded to of yours, claiming that it is acceptable for 15 year olds to have gender reassignment surgery without their parents consent or council, you ought to feel lucky that I'm even bothering to reply to this.
I believe everyone should be treated the same. I do not think that any one particular group should be treated better than others because of an alleged case of historical persecution. Fuck that. We are all people and we all have suffered in one way or another.
Respect however, is something you earn. So I shan't respect a transsexual, or anybody for that matter, until I have seen that they deserve my respect.
As you have proved yourself to be a master of twisting my words to suit your purposes, I shall clarify that this does not mean that I disrespect everyone until I know they deserve otherwise. It means that I am in a neutral state in regards to respect, but still exercise compassion and tolerance until they show me they're unworthy of it. --Much like you have done with your two ignorant, argumentative comments.
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Well I'm glad you agree that they don't deserve it. Thank you for that clarification, and sorry I misunderstood your meaning.
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That is excellent news. I wish all states were that enlightened.
If 15 is the age of consent there, then 15 should be the age at which they can make their decisions regardless of the opinions of their parents. Here 16 is the age of consent and I believe that if you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to know what gender you're supposed to be.
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Considering that the prefrontal cortex, the part of your brain that deals with identity, does not finish developing until an average age of age 25, one could receive an operation only to later--when fully matured mentally--realise that it was a mistake.
Having sexual intercourse and altering your body with irreversible, life changing surgery require entirely different levels of maturity to decide upon.
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And hence why there's a lot of consulting to determine the reasoning behind it. Consent is something different, it's being able to say yes, even though your parents are saying no.
The human brain may not finish developing until 25, but we're already making life determining decisions at 13, and we don't stop at 25. I could argue that you shouldn't be able to make any decisions until you reach 50 and have your mid-life crisis because you could change your mind about something, your whole life in fact.
It may not be a fully formed brain, but you know what you're doing and why. Any of these younger people who would be going against their parent's wishes to get reassignment would have to be pretty sure, don't you think, to go up against all that? Do you think they should be told “No, we know what's best for you”?
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Are you intentionally missing the point for the sake of argument?
If the part of your brain that deals with identity is not formed until around age 25, then you do not know who you are until that age. It's not a complicated thing to grasp.
I can attest to the validity of this statement also, for the person I was when I was younger is completely different to the person I became when I reached 22+.
For the parents to have the opportunity to say no, they would need to know about it. These operations are permitted without the parents having the opportunity to even express their concerns or attempt to convince their children to wait a few years and see if they still feel the same. This is immoral, and a potentially life ruining law. Your attempts to justify this are genuinely unsettling. I am very grateful that you are not in a position to make decisions of this magnitude that could affect the lives of so many of our world's children.
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I'm pretty sure I'm not. I just think there's no overlap here in our beliefs. Everything I say you take offence to and think I'm misunderstanding and vice versa. I don't think further conversation is going to be conducive to a shared understanding.
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Thanks you for this comment. I really respect your insight. Im not someone who looks to spew hate or disrespect towards anyone, I just do believe Im entitled to my view-point as people are entitled to being transgender. And I agree completely with the idea of "over-sexualization"...I think the big problem isnt really gays or transgenders but more the obsession of "sex" in society which then gets kids thinking about sexual preferences and things like that. Thanks for the insight! Highly appreciated
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Everybody has an opinion, being open to other's opinions and beliefs is the grease that allows society to get along and not implode 😁.
We could do with a lot less sex on TV and in adverts though, that's for sure. But I'm not sure that's going to change anytime soon. All we can do is prepare our kids for facing the world, give them plenty of love and attention, allowing for healthy debate without recrimination and supporting their decisions, whatever they may be.
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Whether or not it's totally beating the odds that there indeed would be 3 transgenders in the same class of your brother, I don't think the openness about 'gender-fluidity' etc. is a bad thing.
You might have never known gays until the early 90's as well, simply because it wasn't a subject openly discussed. You might have never met vegans until the media hyped the diet. Hell, if it wasn't for the public figure Dalai Lama you could've never heard of Buddhism!
It's only by opening up a subject, people get comfortable and accepting with it.
If there would be separate bathrooms for that 0,01% (accounting for 75.000.000 people, deserving the same basic human rights as for men and women) there would be a more understanding culture towards transgenders. Like you said: you were never in contact with tranzies. And I doubt you do now.
But like the God you claim to make people says :
'Live and let Live'
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This is a common argument perpetuated by mainstream media and pioneers of the LGBT community. For that to be true however, there would have had to have been somewhere around 1/5 men hiding their sexual orientation or gender identity, which I just find to be a very hard pill to swallow. There have always been those who have been naturally attracted to the same sex, going back centuries. It was always a small percentage however, until recent years. I don't believe that it was because men were afraid to admit their feelings because in actuality, it is also these modern times that have ushered in an era of insecurity, forcing people--if anything--to be more reluctant to share their true selves with the world.
It is very tolerant of you to just accept that all transsexuals arrived at their decision to change genders of their own volition, and that excessive portrayal of such abstract proclivities on TV, movies and the news played no part in it at all. That would imply that it is simply a natural human trait to identify as a gender that your biology contradicts.
If this is your belief, then in the spirit of open discussion I would love to know your opinion on more extreme versions of personal identity dysphoria.
For example, the 52 year old man that identifies as a 6 year old girl and lives with two adopted parents, who also has sex with men while playing the role of this little girl.
Or, the man who identified as a female tiger and modified his body to represent as such. I believe he is dead now. -- A simply google search will direct you to any of these cases.
Do you feel that these are also natural human instincts-- to believe that you are tigers, or little girls in spite of being a mature male? If this is true than it must also be human nature to identify as a dolphin or a radiator.
I could perhaps accept this is just the warped minds of a few if it wasn't for how much media attention such instances get. I feel there is most definitely a deliberate and sinister confusion of our natural selves being waged against us and our children, and I fear for where it may lead if it continues to progress.
One more thing I would like to add is in relation to the bathrooms exclusively for transgenders. This is an awful idea. As you say, if it is merely 0.01% of the population(though I believe as of now it is probably considerably more), then why must they have their own facilities. What about the 0.001% of people who identify as tigers, snakes, or dogs. Do they too require their own personal facilities?
I feel that by building transgender bathrooms, all that does is expose even more children who are still developing their own sense of identity to this type of thing, which will in turn increase the percentage of people that are transgender in the next generation.
If a child notices such a bathroom and asks their parents, "Who is that room for?" Then once they have had it explained to them they will start become curious whether they are truly the gender that their body suggests.
They have also now started teaching transgender tolerance at school to children of very young ages. Why!?
Why not just teach tolerance in itself. Tolerance for all no matter what their choices are, as long as those choices are not malicious in intent. Subjecting children to this type of confusion about their own bodies while they are still so young and impressionable is dangerous to their psyches, and I believe anyone with a modicum of cognitive processing power knows this to be true.. So, whomever is behind this agenda must want to damage young children's minds and confuse them about their bodies.
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I just "adore" how bigots always make the short leap from 'transgender' or 'LGBT' to 'child molester' when it's a proven fact that most victims of child molestation are abused by cishet male relatives or close friends of the family.
Maybe we shouldn't have men's bathrooms so we can protect the children. [/sarcasm]
Teaching trangender tolerance can save lives. I grew up in an era where "smear the queer" was a schoolyard "game" that the authority figures turned a blind eye to. If more people know what a condition is, they're more likely to accept the person who has it and -say- not bash them into jam just because they crossed the street wrong.
I know I can't convince you, @son-of-satire, but at least try to learn what something is before you automatically spew hate everywhere.
And BTW, it's 'transgender person' or 'trans person', not 'transgenders'.
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What the fuck are you talking about? I made no such leap.
Kids are awful. I'm not disputing this. I bet it was not only gays that were bullied however.
I would love for you to show me one instance of hate that I'm allegedly spewing. Out of all the comments on this post, this is only one that is hostile that I have seen. You, my friend, are the only one spewing hate.
Fuck off. lol. You and your like are the biggest problem we face in uniting our people. What's the difference? None that I can see, but you invent one so you can allow yourself an excuse to be offended by a word that was intended in a non-offensive manner. Go find a safe space and die in it before interrupting my work for a silly fucking message like this again.
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Uh, really? “blacks”, “gays”, “chinks”, “abbos”, “coons”, “frogs”, “wogs”, “fags”, “goons”, “japs”. These are all what we call slurs. They are designed to humiliate, derogate, insult and offend, by taking a group of people and trying to reduce their relevance by belittling and shortening them into a funny named subset of humanity. You “norms”.
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Blacks is not a slur. Gays is not a slur. These are the only two of the words you just wrote that I said, so what are you blabbing on about?
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I agree. We don't need more segregated bathrooms, we need less. Build bigger, unisex bathrooms. In the meantime, little girls (both trans and cis) can go to the girls bathroom, and little boys (both trans and cis) to the boys, regardless of their birth sex.
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I agree that Caitlyn Jenner is a very bad example of a transgender person. Not for changing her gender identity though. South Park spoofed the fear of saying anything negative about her well.
That said, I don't think transgender people are so because they've chosen to be so. Though I'm not close with any transgender people, I know it's not an easy position to be in to say the least.
If "giving people the option to be transgender" means not discriminating or being hateful or mean to someone who is, then I think society as a whole should give people the option to be transgender. Not doing so is akin to the absurd racism towards people for the shade of skin they have.
Let people be who they are. Don't hurt them. They won't hurt you.
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People should be able to do whatever they want with their own body. However, it is disturbing that such a significant decision would be made before adulthood.
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Kids who transition (and take puberty blockers) as soon as they're aware of who they really are have a much better time of it [bigot encounters not counted] with better mental health, better performance in school, and generally less incidents of depression and self-hatred.
You can become aware of who you really are at any time, and it generally starts with being completely miserable about your assigned identity. Some trans kids have "always known", some take a while for the metaphorical light to dawn. Either way, their self-identity is important and valid.
You can choose your religious beliefs. You can choose your friends. You can choose where and how you live. What you don't get a say in is your identity and your sexuality. Does anyone remember choosing those? No? Then you shouldn't worry about what or who people say they are.
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Good point thats whats most troubling to me. Not that people are being transgender but that little kids are doing it. Otherwise it wouldnt be such a controversial topic. I should have mentioned that thanks!
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Back when I was in high school there were several gay kids, don't recall any of them jacking off in class or doing anything remotely sexual on school grounds. Teenagers don't do that unless they're simply fucked in the head.
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You never went to my high school :D
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I'm not sure you were looking hard enough, or in the right places, shit like that was going on all over the damn place. School's a veritable hot-bed of sexual tension.
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I didn't exactly hang out with the queer crowd outside of class. In class they didn't do anything to stand out. I was there only 50% of the time at best though so I may have missed something. They were all Goth as far as I recall with the exception of a few girls who just looked like average guys.
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Sorry, I was talking about just people in general. I dunno, maybe it was different at your school, but where I went, it was rife with it.
Not people doing it out in the open, but talking about it, boys pulling girls bra straps, touching body parts (both welcome and unwelcome), making (usually not-so-funny) “jokes”, innuendo, and yes even the odd person occasionally getting caught playing with themselves in class. I'm sure there was a lot more going on that I didn't see too.
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You are obviously misinformed and ignorant regarding some of the human psychological pains and sorrows. You are lucky to be confident and comfortable in your skin and being born this way. Some people do not have that chance, and the living proof is to see such young kids wanting (and feeling) to be the other sex. Letting them go through this massive change is controversial, but shouldn't we try to understand this phenomena instead of denigrating it?
Shouldn't we embrace differences and tolerance instead of judging lives we don't know nothing about?
I truly believe so.
Vivre et laissez vivre!
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I wouldnt say im ignorant, I think ignorant would be letting the ideology spread throughout the population. Everyone is free to their opinion. People should be able to express their feelings towards extreme lifestyles whether negative or positive. We cannot accept all forms of living. At one point being to passive will lead a civilization to desolation.
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The guy who you chose as an avatar seems to disagree.
"Love your neighbour as you would love yourself" rings a significant bell.
Or "remove the log from your own eye before you remove the splinter from your neighbour's" aka - check your own blind side before you go after what you see as a flaw in someone else.
And look up Matthew 19:12 sometime. It actually states that people should accept people as they are. Which includes trans folks.
Heck, the entirety of the new testament is all about being passive in order for civilisation to prosper. The Meek shall Inherit and all that?
I think your problem is that you are afraid of something that's not going to happen. Perhaps you're scared that some member of your gender will treat you as you tend to treat members of the opposite gender? Perhaps you don't want to find out that your best buddy is actually a trans man who's been terrified to tell you, and then you don't know how you should treat him thereafter? [Hint: it's the same as always.]
I, personally, believe that all the concern is ludicrous. Genetalia is 0.0013% of the total human body mass, and is therefore statistically insignificant. Everything else is presentation and attitude.
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I didnt hurt anybody by writing this article have I? And dont pretend you know more about the Holy Text I preach. Do you know our is society & media is actually trying to make people transgender? You think it is Holy when a boy dresses like a girl and master-baits in class? Do you know sex in the bible is only just when used for conception? You can go to church every sunday but God wont give you his wisdom unless you listen.
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Everyone is free to their opinion and expressing it, I totally agree.
We have very different perspectives and your text triggers a sentiment of strong disapproval in me and I had to share. I believe that every human should be whatever he wants to be in this life. His life.
(except if you're an asshole, don't be an asshole.)
JkJK
Anyways, keep on the writing. Au revoir
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Maybe there are a few people out there that would do this for attention. I don't think so. I think there are a few who really feel they are in the wrong body. Although it is difficult to relate to, I completely believe them.
I have no problem with transgenders, but I do understand some parents being worried about the safety of their children in unisex bathrooms, but that is just because we aren't used to it yet.
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Controversial stuff! I love it. :-D
I want to be supportive of people who feel overlooked and misunderstood, but when they start drawing me into their personal hell, I have to draw the line. I don't need to share in their misery. I have misery enough of my own. They don't have the monopoly on suffering, although you would have to wonder sometimes.
The test for me is how much they want to find common ground. If I step towards them, they need to step towards me. If I have to walk all the way to them, then I'm simply opening myself to emotional manipulation and exploitation. Trust is the way forward. No minority has the rights to demand anything of me, but the opportunity to prove themselves worthy of my trust.
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Sorry seablue, I really like most of your posts, but I'm gonna have to disagree a little here 😁.
The thing is, most people don't really need your support, they just want to be respected and have their feelings and opinions considered on an equal standing with everyone else.
The problem comes when a subset of the population is seen as lesser, or irrelevant, or that something they did that everyone else does is more sinister because of who they choose to be. Just because someone has different or the “wrong” sex organs, or different colour skin, or religion, or race, or culture, or belief, or species (Hi to any extra-terrestrials out there!) doesn't mean that they mean less as a person, or should be feared more.
Respect all people equally. They don't need your support. They don't need you to commiserate with them about their suffering. They need to stop suffering because of people who think they need to be treated differently. They need you to stand up with them when you see people trying to take away their rights to live as they need to.
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Well said. We are all a minority in one way or another, depending on the observer. The irony is, if we all were able to accept this, there would be no minorities left, for we would have elevated ourselves above and beyond the labels that we continue to define ourselves by.
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Good point! Thanks for the comment!
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Upvoted 100% Its just my belief that a male and a female are necessary for the human species to naturally reproduce. Given my old room mate was transgender and I accepted her choice great part of being an American. Do as you please as long as it harms no one else. I think it is a fucking shame though that Jenner would win over that veteran. Just a fucking shame. I think any rational transgender person would agree. On what fucking grounds does Jenner deserve that just claims to be being who she felt she truly is? This Veteran suffered so Jenner could live in a world where she could do that so without him Jenner would have no free world to express herself. Once again such bullshit.
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I am pretty sure that if a few transgenders don't breed the human race will continue to carry on. ;)
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Agreed, I'm more worried about the kinds of people who are reproducing too much.
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People should be free to live as they wish.
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Folks who think they aren't their birth sex are mentally ill - delusional.
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I would have to agree with you that there is most definitely an agenda being pushed. Indeed with homosexuality also. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there is perhaps a very minute percentage of people who are born with sexual orientations that are dissimilar from the norm, and there is not much that they can do other than be true to themselves.
But, we have gone from 1/100 being gay, to 1/5 being gay or bisexual within my life time. Don't quote me on those numbers, as I'm speaking purely on observation and personal experience. It does seem to me like there is the intentional promoting of homosexuality and gender confusion going on, though the motives are unclear to me at this time. Perhaps part of the depopulation agenda? The more people who are gay/lesbian/gender-reassigned, then the less natural births we can expect.
It's a very controversial issue to broach, and I applaud you for your bravery in doing so. There are very few members of the LGBT community, or any community, who would willfully accept that they are who they are through the result of psychologically destructive propaganda.
I think you ought to exercise a little more tolerance however, as the blame resides at the highest levels of society. We needn't be judgemental in regards to those who may be homosexual or gender-confused, as it is their choice to be who they want to be.
I do think you are right though. More and more transgenders are appearing in prominent positions--I imagine they are being placed there in most cases exclusively because of their gender orientation--which is confusing the minds of more and more children, resulting in what we have today.
Some argue that you are born with these feelings about yourself and about others, but I would have to assert that in 49/50 cases, it is merely the result of conscious and malicious confusion.
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Its a condition called sexual dysphoria and its scientifically observable condition. While I wouldn't describe it as being healthy, I wouldn't describe it as illness either. Its more or less a birth disability. I say its a disability because it is quite crippling mentally and physically. But it does exist and it is not something you can convince them to stop being.
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It's actually called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria has nothing to do with sexuality or sexual preferences.
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MIs being transgender a mental illness? WHO classification system suggests it is
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Agreed. You cant just claim to be something your not... Its like changing your race...It is just untrue.
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Are you saying that you don't like that people are acting as if its not their choice to be a certain way? I don't like victims, I wish anyone could just proudly claim what ever they feel they are without hating what they used to be. It is confusing though when you have everyone else emotions (yours for an example) whirling about. I don't know why everyone becomes so obsessed with all these labels. I love to wear womens clothes. I have outy parts. I am not a female in the scientific sense of the word, and neither am I so ignorant to get upset that someone calls me a he. I do however fill the role of the female gender. I cook, clean, wear skirts, make-up, sing, play piano, dance, and am more classy and polite than any "women" I know. I think that love is the law, and that you should love thy will, and more importantly you have the power of will to choose love or not. Effectually, Will is over Love. <3
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