There, I said it - I am a self-voter. This behavior has been going on since I joined Steemit, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. How can I justify this you ask? Well, I like my content, and it is a free market.
Did any of us join Steemit because we wanted to create another Animal Farm? We are fed up with our old Facebook or Google master and want a freer society to live and work in. We leave the old paradigm and begin creating a new one, only to find in the end that we don't know how to run our own platform any better.
I don't see the regulation of our voting as a healthy choice. We are working to solve a new problem with solutions from an old world.
In simple terms, the argument seems to be that those who are self-voting are draining the reward pool for themselves and not sharing the daily rewards. *I say let them do so.* We have learned time and again in our society that such behavior is not rewarded by people participating in free enterprise.
What do you do when you talk with someone that only enjoys speaking highly of themselves? You want out of that conversation as quickly as possible. We are wired to want to hear more about ourselves. Self-voting satisfies that partially but what we truly want to hear is if other people approve of what we create.
The biggest rewards are never reserved for those that toot their own horn. The people creating the greatest value will always be rewarded with the largest reward. If you start telling people what they can and cannot do with their money - Steem Power in our case - you are cutting off one head of Hydra and allowing two more to grow in its place.
Thinking of the Little Guy
Starting out on Steemit is hard. You see posts worth hundreds of dollars and you are struggling to make $1-$2. The reality sets in for you that buying Steem is a good idea. This puts upward pressure on the price of Steem and benefits all of us.
What if you can't purchase the Steem you want? Then it is time to build a following by upvoting and commenting on other posts. Wait, you self-upvoted your own posts and now have a low voting power. You decide in the future to vote smaller amounts on your own posts and support the people that you find to be creating quality content.
This scenario is what it takes to build a business. You market your products and earn on the value you created. The more people buying your product the more revenue you create. That customer base is built on Steemit by commenting and upvoting on posts other than your own. You can make some money by only self-upvoting, in fact the curation rewards are better when you do so. However, in the big picture did you give up a feast shared with friends for a frozen pizza you cooked yourself?
me for more great content.
I'm here almost a year. I'd bought most of my steem for hard earned money. Everybody preaching from day one how important is to have a lot of steem power to have influence on the platform. I'm not native English speaker and my only way to participate is to vote and comment. I see everyday for whole year how people riding my voting bot and cashing out all rewards and buying laptops, plane tickets, smartphones, even sport cars, and post about that and on top of that get rewarded. It's their decision,I don't care. But when I stopped voting bot and start self voting my comments all hell break loose. They even set a bot who start down voting mine and probably also other steem users. They will not attract investors this way.
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I agree that prevent self voting is basically like saying sell all your steem power. The people downvoting of self voting are trying to prevent abuse....but they are going about it the wrong way in my opinion.
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That is sad to hear. You earned that investment and chose to participate with it on Steemit.
Proud of you for sticking around and still voting. You are an example for new investors.
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It's not big deal really. They changing rules all the time. After every HF different group of steemians get on top. I'm not complaining at all. Just some of my thoughts about this issue. It's always ways around if one want. Look at trending page. No comment.
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People find a way to win.
I didn't hear you complaining so much as chuckling at the way some folks act. You sound like you have a level way of looking at things.
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Thanks. It's never black or white. It's grey; most of the time.
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It seems to me there are small groups of people with decent steem powers that just upvote each other.
mafia style setup.
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Every early supporter invested his money and it wasn't for charity purpose. They are expecting returns on it and self upvoting is one way to achieve it.
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You should read my comment for the post for full context. You will find that I would agree with you.
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Sure, but that's the way the whole steemit is setup. Everybody can buy or earn steem power and do whatever he want.
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@oldtimer, much as we would like to think otherwise... people often start "behaving badly" when there is money involved. I have seen many of these discussions... and one of the things I always like to point out (not popular!) is that (a) Steemit did not give anyone a JOB, they offered an OPPORTUNITY... so your pay is a "reward" not anyone's obligation to pay and (b) focusing on "short term rewards" is not any kind of investment, it is basically "playing the lottery."
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Responsible people know how to handle money and have long term strategy. If I upvote myself now and buy more cheap steem to do better curation latter when I'll have more time it will be better for me and all authors and steem platform. I never play lottery.
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I think this is a solid point! I also think it is ones own business what kind of strategy one chooses to use which in the long run is the best for ones own development.
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Correct. And it also depend in what situation each individual find himself.
I'm sure steemit.inc have their own strategy for platform to grow and prosper.
But I can see people joining steemit platform and after one week they know everything and they start preaching and teaching users and developers what to do and how to do. I hate that.
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People are free to do what they want with their investment in steemit. It's that simple. I don't care for the people that pop in a comment on one of my posts, say "good post" and upvote themselves .50 cents. It's not very neighborly, but I'm not going to downvote them, I will unfollow and ignore them.
The bot issue is a different story. AI downvote bots shouldn't exist. Plain & Simple. Very dangerous thing to have.
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yeah there are others downvoting self-upvoted comments now..why not start curating manually again :)
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Love the honesty and why the hell not!? If the bot creators can do it, if the groups of people that auto vote circle jerk each other can do it, if VacationRentals can do it, why not real people who actually write legit posts?
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Haha, exactly!
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I would never have bought steem if I couldn't upvote myself. It's a necessary incentive for investors. I want my content to become more visible, and so upvoting it the best way to achieve just that.
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Perfect example right there. Thank you. ✊️
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I admire your honesty Mr.Selfvoter, and I have to agree with you on this one cause the pool will get drained anyhow, so might as well take part of the pie. take my upvote and follow.
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Haha, thank you for the upvote and follow.
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The default setting is to upvote your own posts. If the creators of steemit thought it was a bad idea. I doubt it would be the default setting. When you have made some steempower then it is of course a choice.
Good post @lydon.sipe I've been looking for an honest man.
Now can anyone tell me how to turn my upvote back on?
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Precisely. You know that was a discussion early on. Appreciate the kind words @molometer.
Upvote from your computer/laptop?
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I found the toggle button under the post. I switched that thing back on. ;)
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Haha, perfect. ;)
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We don't need SteemitPolice !!!
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This was the main sales pitch not so long ago. No censorship.
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Haha, there you go!
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I love the last line - it reminds me of Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago where he couldn't enjoy a family feast while all the rest of Moscow was dark, silent and hungry. Steemit is a blog site and we all covet readers and followers, but to attain that we have to give something of value in time, rewards or investing in the site. I think you did a good job of exploring these alternatives, lydon
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Your literary knowledge bank is fun to hear.
I always enjoy knowing that my writing passed the Geddes reading test.
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thanks, lydon :)
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Amen to that, Lydon! John always has some great quotation or allusion to share. ;)
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He sure does! :)
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You do have great content @lydon.sipe and I'm a proud follower of yours! Thanks for this article.
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You are a kind lady @tlester. It is a joy to interact with you here. :)
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Thank you for posting @lydon.sipe.
Very relevant topic. Well written...well said.
Have you seen @mindhunters video regarding the last HF....you should see it.
He sees the new HF a little differently than others......hate to give away the punch line.....he says look at Steemit as mining. Well.....it shows there are different perspectives....we each come to a subject with different frame of references. Perhaps we should give freedom a chance in this new frontier/ space.
bleujay sees that the thinking of OZ/socialist thinking has encroached on the space where we have opportunity for freedom.
To each his own....until we are in their shoes, we cannot know their thinking.
Live and let live......if we let then we live.
Thank you for the opportunity to think on these things.
All the best to you and @mustardseed. Cheers.
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Thank you for letting me know about @mindhunter's video. I enjoy reading or viewing every side of an issue.
You are always so gracious in your writing, thank you. I agree we ought to seek freedom over socialism - we know which one wins.
Blessings to you @bleujay, and I will pass along your greeting to @mustardseed.
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I self-vote myself since the beginning as well.
Let's look it the other way. If you don't vote your posts, why would the other people do it? I put a lot of work into my posts and sometimes half of the reward is from my vote alone.
The people that are preaching for "Don't vote yourself, you're draining the reward pool" are the same ones that would flag a high paying post, just because they think it pays too much and it will lower their own reward. Not because the post is bad, but because they will "drain" the pool.
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That is a good point @sstefan. Some folks are not happy that others are winning more than they are. It is the sad story about the crabs pulling their escaping friend back into the pot - they are not winning so neither should others.
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This is precisely why human government "works" and oppresses us all...
😄😇😄
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Preach.....
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Certainly a very well thought out and valid perspective, @lydon.sipe.
I'll briefly offer a third perspective... why I generally don't self-upvote... for very selfish reasons. I sort of commented on this on a recent and somewhat similar post by @joseph.
I vote based on my personal objective... which is that I really like Steemit, what it stands for and it's potential as a model for a sort of "gift economy." As such, I would like to see Steemit thrive and grow in the long run; which means 5, 7, 10 years, for me. Next week? Next month? Not that important.
So, what maximizes the value of Steemit, and by extension the Steem token, in the long run? Well, I'm guessing an "attractive and thriving community" which would lead more people to want to join... as a result of there being more "economic activity" here, as a result of which the Steem token would look attractive to investors, in turn driving up the price of Steem. So I gain.
Conversely, a situation centered around self-upvoting, and posting minimal comments to also self-upvote... what sort of impression does that send to the greater world? The world from which we draw growth, in the form of what I'll call "the next marginal user." To me, as a content creator... I'd look at that and think "what a pile of garbage... I'm not going to hang my reputation on that!" and pass on by.
Now, that may not mean very much... but the long term risk is that if we allow "minimal content" to supplant "quality content" we endanger long term growth. And sure... "the blockchain will never go away," but what good is that, if we are sitting here with 1/2c Steem... because people look at the coin... and the community that "represents" it and perceive it not as "thriving," but as "yet another shitcoin."
Again... that's just one person's opinion! An opinion-- mind you-- rooted on 20+ years as a content creator.
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Appreciate your encouragement @denmarkguy. It is nice to hear ones content described as well thought out.
What I hear you saying, and correct me if I misinterpreted, is that we ought to be creating content that increases the value of the community. The value of Steem goes up for everyone and the rising tide benefits each of us if we are not seeking our own gain but the good of all by supporting quality content over minimal content.
I sought to say that with the concept of people only tooting their own horn. While I do self-upvote, it is minimal, there is too much valuable content that needs recognition in order for us to continue to grow exponentially and attract new buyers for the coin.
The short-term thinkers will be weeded out. But we risk losing the long-term players if we punish everyone by negating the freedom of self-upvoting.
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Well we self vote because we do not believe others shall vote sufficiently for us
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When you have consistent quality content you'll earn the upvotes.
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The way the game is set up allows for self voting. Its your stake. Lets repeat that, its your stake, use it as the game permits. Change the rules if folks don't like it. Just never depend on the goodness of others. If there is a way to game it, people will find it and exploit it.
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Totally agree! I personally think that the reward distribution should change:
What about taking a small portion of the reward pool and distributing it in proportion to the dispersion of votes that each account has cast, over the 7 day period, or similar? This should have the effect of financially discouraging self-voting, sockpuppets and clics.
I haven't fully considered what kind of dispersion metric might work though, or whether any would be computationally practical.
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I am sure this is a better answer than to do nothing. Something that rewards authentic comments. I guess Steemin Inc has bigger fish to fry? I would say limit the max a post can earn.
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Here here to all of that. ✊️
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some have high power and they take advantage Huh :(
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Yes, some do but we ought not punish the rest of us for that abuse. Deal with the individual case which is much easier in the
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I see it as a choice. If you took hours to create something and just don't have the engagement and you want to try and give it a boost, I don't see that as bad.
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Exactly. The newbies need that option to keep going a
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I don't see a problem with self upvotes. People should be able to use their investments the way they choose.
But you bring up good common sense point, in a long run cooperative attitude will have the better benefits.
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Amen. Cooperative attitudes will attract the larger following and that is where the most value is created.
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Lydon, you make some very good points.
I was whale flagged standing up again for the 99% on here, and they disagreed with my opinion on the same topic overnight.
Kinda really proved my point when he did that.
I will always read your stuff my man, really good post today again.
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Barry, it is always a blessing to speak with you brother. You consistently stand up for the little guy, and for that you have my respect.
My thanks to you for reading the material. It is nice to hear that someone is engaging with what I wrote. I got your six my friend. ✊️
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You are a beaut man.
I hope we get to meet one day, thanks Lydon, I really have come to appreciate you and the kindness you always take time to show me.... and others.
#Community
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#community indeed.
Lord willing we will...
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As a minnow I have been self-upvoting as well. The one downside is when I look at comments or replies to see who upvoted me so I can follow back someone who is actually interacting with my post, my upvotes make it harder to pick out. When I achieve the steempower to get my posts visible upvvoting my own posts won't be needed. As far as I am concerned Steemit is a game and we are using the best strategy to win. If we are not stealing from some one else what is the harm?
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No harm, you may do what you wish with your stake. Bravo to you for seeking out those who are interacting with your content. That is the start of a good friendship.
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Part of the game. You need to get your investments back.
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It is one way to that, yes.
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a lot of people don't like self upvoting and in the case of spam ish stuff its very wrong, but I agree, I do the same. if I think my comment is worth everyone seeing ill up vote it to bring it to the top, and i'll always upvote my own posts.
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It is your stake and you may do as you wish.
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Excellent. Upvote and resteem.
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That is kind of you!
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There is kind of an addictive element to voting. I get some sort of satisfaction seeing the 6cent I make myself xD
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Haha, I can understand that. It feels powerful in a way.
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Haha, if they only knew....
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"People don't know their true power"
Great picture!
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Thank you! I thought it was appropriate.
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It is very true...power is often an illusion or maybe more accurately, it relies on a confidence model in many cases
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A confidence model, that is good. People allow others to lead based on their confidence in them. Hmm, I hear a post brewing......
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:) I would love to see you do a post on that. I have been so busy lately I haven't had much time for Steemit...hopefully next week I can get back to posting and curating!
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Hmm, it may just happen.... Life is life man, when you are in the hustle priorities take precedence. At least now you have lots of blog posts churning through your head, haha.
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no problem to make some self-upvotes if others doesn't appreciate your content but not your full power for yourself
other good content quality also deserves your upvote
It's good that you talked about this point
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meep
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Exactly. No reason we cannot upvote our own content but we should realize we are scraping for pennies if that is all we do. There is a large following of people waiting for us if we interact and search for quality content.
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sure
it's good to keep this in mind and not being gready
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True.
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I am new here to Steemit and think this is a great post that will give me some good insight. Thank you.
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Glad you found the information valuable @joshdaoldman. If you need some help you are welcome to ask me here or at steemit.chat.
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I have seen a lot of conversation on this topic lately and I haven't had it broken down to me like this. It makes sense! I've gone back and forth, as being new, it's just information overload at first. I'd read one post about not self-upvotig and I'd stop. Then I'd read another and I'd start. Confusing! I like your logic and it makes sense to me. Thanks!
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Glad I could help unmuddy the waters for us both, haha. I do enjoy your well thought out comments.
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Well thank you! I enjoy your well thought out content as well. Cheers!
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Loved that post
Amen to that.
I am still getting my head around Steemit, and its nuances. Certainly a lot of opninions out there - put it's positions that count in life.
-ch @globocop
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Thank you for the encouragement! If you have any questions about Steemit give me a holler here or at steemit.chat. I have the same username there.
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Wow! this post and these comments are an eye-opener! I am a newbie in this area. My brain gets into overdrive trying to catch all the points being discussed among the old-timers. It's nice to see that people can speak openly and frankly without negative emotions. This is a learning process for me. We could never be so frank in my culture. Thanks for all your good effort and your faith in humanity. This will bring something good in the end, karmic rule! Keep it up!
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Glad you found the discussion useful! In general, the folks here are willing to listen and talk over matters in a civil mannner. It is a freeing experience for individuals to write what is on their mind.
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Yes, you are right. There is a sense of satisfaction in being able to express one's thoughts without being intimidated. A sense of freedom and civility.
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Exactly. Freedom
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What a fearsome finish. I enjoyed the practicality in this post. I've written on the subject a few times, in my own eyes, I felt I came up short. Well done @lydon.sipe. It takes a lot of work to get up to steem on this platform. It takes a good deal of learning, patience and networking. You are only as powerful as the network you create.
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Amen! Your network is your net worth. It is sad to see folks scraping for the scraps when with a little more work they can have all they want.
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I also admit, I am guilty of this because I upvote my posts all the time, except the comments i make :)
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No shame in that. It is good to have thfreedom. :)
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I hate when people have 200accounts and swipe them self... :P You keep upvoting your content....
"Well, I like my content, and it is a free market"
So do I:) Followed...
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Haha, it is part of the game. Thank you for the follow, and the funny gif. 😄
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No prob sir!
Feel free to check my blog one day...
Cheers
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Very good information, although with some doubts.
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Thank you.
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Un post para reflexionar profundamente, somos el problema o la solucion? comparto tu filosofia como soy principiante quiero aprender pero bien y ser comentada de manera inteligente, con criticas constructivas que me hagan crecer¡
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I couldn't agree more!
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Nice!
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It's ok, I still follow you anyway!
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Great!
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