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rok-sivante (75) in life • 8 years ago (edited)

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8 years ago by rok-sivante (75)

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loewan (44) · 8 years ago

The road to transhumunism will be gradual to the point that people will not notice.

Can you imagine the reaction of people from the 1930s if you tell them women slit open their breath/bums and stuff bits of soft glass/sand under their flesh to make them more attractive. Or that people do surgeries to their faces to look entirely different. Shining really really intense light to itch away the cornea will make ones eyesight better. Biomoniac limbs are already happening and so are brain electrodes to control them. Latest is highly flexible polymers that reconnect the nerves for people with broken backs.

I have bad knees and terrible eye sights so I can't wait until being better.

dana-edwards (74) · 8 years ago

I posted on this topic as my first ever post on Steemit.
https://steemit.com/technology/@dana-edwards/thinking-outside-the-brain-why-we-need-to-build-a-decentralized-exocortex-part-2

Cyborgization is a great idea but not everyone understands what it is. We need more people to explain the concept.

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

great to see you on here, Dana. I've been following some of your writing in some of the Facebook blockchain groups, always good stuff.

great writeup. keep an eye out for @core when he starts posting on here - he's been working on some tech similar to what you're describing, yet a whole other level... :-)

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alexgr (66) · 8 years ago (edited)

The underlying assumption of transhumanism is that the human potential is limited or broken and thus needs fixing or "enhancement".

The subconscious admission of "enhancing" one's self with technology is that the combination of human body, mind and soul cannot do what machinery can. This is lodged as a self-limiting / self-crippling subconscious self-suggestion that is then re-inforcing the assumption of limited human potential.

One simple example is memory. If you have a technological helper (say your phone) to keep your phone book memorized, you don't need to remember phone numbers. But that doesn't mean you can't. But if you start relying on the phone to do that, it's an admission that you can't, and then it's becoming excessively difficult to start memorizing even 2-3-5 numbers (let alone tens of numbers like we did in the 80s or 90's - prior to mobile phones).

Extending that, prior to the printing press, we were memorizing entire books - a task which is seemingly impossible today because most people give up by merely thinking about it.

The mind, with proper programming*, can be able to do extraordinary things. However (if it involves self-reprogramming and not external programming by a third party) this is predicated on the assumption and admission that the human potential is far larger than we think.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1903777/Derren-Brown-turns-average-man-into-pub-quiz-genius.html - you might find the whole episode or parts by searching derren brown, glen, memory

This was a man with pretty bad memory (so he thought), Derren "programmed" him, he consumed an amazing amount of content in books and then he entered a quiz-competition that is normally collaborative (entire teams). He entered alone and IIRC he came second or first.

Memory is just one example. There is creative thinking, processing more information than is apparently available, controlling the body in ways that we aren't normally familiar, etc. Intelligence is also another factor which is programmable, meaning one can program themselves (or others) to be smarter.

In a sense, we are barely scratching the surface of human potential.

loewan (44) · 8 years ago

Personally, if I were to have any implants, I would want something that would effective alter and enhance my physical form. Like my eyes are defective and can't focus light perfectly onto the retina. Or my knees are showing signs that they might not last into my twilight years.

Some of the skill that we needed to have "back then" that are abandoned now is a good progression as long as we use the free capacity available to embark on even more productive endeavours.

Take photography for example. With digital medium, we no longer have to faff around with choosing the right ISO films or having to develop the photo ourselves using dangerous chemicals. Now we have easy to use, highly portable and robust camera that we can take to more places to compose better shots. For those who want more can do more extreme stuff like HDR, or star trails.

There is no need to romanticise and settle for the mundane as long as you continue to push our boundaries.

alexgr (66) · 8 years ago

Btw, what you are really asking is a better input interface for content creation. This doesn't need to be "integrated" into our biology. A proper UI that would take speech commands (so that you don't have to write) and directions (where to place photos, what stuff to highlight, put to the center, etc etc) is probably 3-5-10 years away and will not be invasive.

brindleswan (59) · 8 years ago

Speech doesn't work when it is noisy or privacy is required. A similarly non-invasive interface is a hand holdable, or wearable chordic input device, like the one in the Hip PC:
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@brindleswan/forgotten-history-of-wearable-computing-a-steemit-exclusive

alexgr (66) · 8 years ago

Noise is a problem now because the proper filtering algorithms don't work so well, but good AI will do it. Privacy though, that's a problem so in those cases it may require inventions like yours or miniaturized non-invasive neural readers in something like a headphone set.

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loewan (44) · 8 years ago

Speed of speech is actually slower than the speed of thoughts. I read in speed read guide somewhere that one should reading out words in your head as it actually impede the speed at which the words are processed.

Have you ever had a time when a name or word is that the tip of your mouth but you can't get it out? That's the link between thought and speech malfunctioning! With the right set up, a machine can theoretically know what you mean better than yourself!

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

at least 1000 times slower, at times...

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alexbeyman (74) · 8 years ago

The subconscious admission of "enhancing" one's self with technology is that the combination of human body, mind and soul cannot do what machinery can.

There's no such thing as a soul. Google "the problem of interaction".

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alexgr (66) · 8 years ago

The name ("soul") is kind of irrelevant - it's just a symbol. I could say the "player" (=soul) and the "avatar" (=body) in a "virtual reality" analogy where this world is simply one layer of reality controlled by another.

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brindleswan (59) · 8 years ago

I'm upvoting and replying, so this will become a bookmark for me to seriously comment on this at some future date. I've been involved with cryonics, life extension, anarchism and transhumanism since the late seventies. Unfortunately, many transhumanists are statists, but their philosophy is not popular among the elite. Almost everyone, including elite psychopaths, have come to terms with aging and death. Cryonics is super rational and incredibly unpopular, even though it is not really expensive.

Anyway -- placeholder here for a more serious post on this in the future.

Remind me to tell the story of Robert Enzmann of Project Orion, and his autogenetic cycling plus neocortical brain patch implants method.

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

cool. I'm really looking forward to some of your writing as you share more of your experience & knowledge in these fields.

also, keep an eye out for when @core comes online and starts posting. you will definitely be interested in what he has to offer. ;-)

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liberosist (70) · 8 years ago

Transhumanism is happening, and sooner than we might think. Ray Kurzweil's timeline is optimistic, but possible. We have to take it carefully, but frankly, it can only be great for humans. We lose so much time, energy, focus, creativity and compassion through negative emotions such as fear and anger. These emotions were very useful for our ancestor species surviving in the jungles, but they are just unnecessary baggage today.

That's what I think this is truly about - enabling humanity to achieve its true potential.

Awesome Twitter list by the way!

steemuwe (54) · 8 years ago

I upvoted as I really enjoyed your outburst. But I can see that the transhumanism concept is scaring the shit out of many people. But the problem they face is that most of them use technology without even understanding it - and technology moves with exponential growth. So the question is can anybody or anything even prevent the singularity from happening? None of us probably knows the ultimate plan if there really is one objectively - so all we can do is enjoy the ride as much as we can. The ride is a very subjective and special experience ;-)

bradvanceauthor (51) · 8 years ago

Imagine if you didn't have to sit down at a computer and spend hours typing out all the articulate details of the ideas in your head to form a well-composed article or book.

I have a couple objections to that and can see a couple problems.

First, even the most powerful chip set can't substitute for the work that the brain is doing, at its natural pace - that is, creating new content that is unique to you. That only you can dream up. Otherwise, the chip set is only converting data into words, like this sports writing bot. The only color commentary is preloaded by its human programmers. So you wouldn't actually be learning.

Second, unless you loaded your entire mind into the chipset, you'd fail to make new connections and deductions based on experience, which your brain helpfully throws up when exposed to new, but connected, information. You couldn't say, wow, that Tarzan movie really is deceptive, it makes it look like the natives banished the Belgians from the Congo, when in reality I know from King Leopold's Ghost that the horror and suffering went on for decades. And, I'm able to draw on all the other examples of imperial colonialism to contrast and compare.

What I'm getting at is the difference between information and knowledge. If you're still going to use the brain to come up with solutions, you have to respect the pace it works at.

Finally...there's so much pleasure to be had in reading, allowing knowledge to dawn on you organically (literally in this case). And some of that pleasure is difficulty. It should be hard for me to understand HTF Steemit manages to really truly pay all these $ out of nowhere, because of how rewarding it is to the brain to solve it.

Take away that reward system, and the brain atrophies, and all the knowledge in the world won't wake it up.

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

thanks for the contribution to the discussion. I've spoken to some of these points in a few of the other comment replies I've just been making - though the main emphasis I hope comes through them (which perhaps was underemphasized in the story itself):

natural, internal development would be required FIRST for any of these technologies to be effective. a person would need to achieve a certain level of internal development, acquiring a degree of wisdom and innate mental capacities/skill, before the external technology would be of any value.

compare it to a fresh computer with no programs on it - but a processing capability without limits.

on its own, the computer won't do ANYTHING.

the outcome is entirely dependent upon the programmer.

if someone's inherent coding skills are basic, the output of the computer will be basic.

if someone's an EXPERT, master programmer, they could create some AMAZING output.

the development of that knowledge & skills is part information that could potentially be uploaded, but for alot of that development, there is no magic-pill, quick-fix, or shortcut.

I view such technological potentials as discussed as that limitless-power-computer. for a master programmer - a dream come true. but to a complete newbie, essentially useless.

there'd need to be prerequisite development of consciousness and wisdom that couldn't be substituted with any technology - the organic development of specific neural pathways and activation of certain genetic codes - prior to the technology's potential to be activated. the tech could upload info, but it'd be the organic infrastructure that'd convert that information into knowledge and integrate it into the person's neural network, from which its interconnection would culminate in wisdom...

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dev (49) · 8 years ago

There are people who are super fast readers who can read and assimilate information very quick. That is possible without technology. All it takes is practice and hard work.

There can be a technology where one can speak short phrases and software creates human readable content out of it. That seems very much possible.

That can speed up the process of consuming and sharing of information.

Transhumanism sound fascinating too. Just that humans currently differ from one another at the level of intelligence. The Transhumanism will give humans power. Still how that is used will make someone a success or a loser.

Just like in the movie Limitless. There were few who had access to the drug. Only the protagonist was able to utilize it to his advantage.

Thanks for this post. Now that is one more thing to look into. Such a promising future.

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Yes - such advancements are possible without technology, though still have limitations. For such technological advancements to be utilized constructively would most likely require such internal development of natural intelligence, first - in order to develop the wisdom to effectively manage the power such external technologies would enable.

Both Limitless & Lucy - AMAZING movies. not entirely fiction. Both present a fairly accurate representation of what may be possible with the development of the brain. and anyone who's done psychedelics may be familiar with these states. (there's probably good reason the movie was called "Lucy.") though even the psychedelic experiences aren't just because of the drugs themselves - the compounds are just a high-energy fuel source to activate increased brain processing power, unveiling the potential of human consciousness. such states ARE possible without external substances - the brain produces DMT naturally, and if one knows how, DMT can be produced intentionally in higher-than-normal doses.

very exciting times and things ahead, with such developments in all these fields...

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dev (49) · 8 years ago

Agreed. Today's magical dream is tomorrow's scientific achievement. Here's to the exciting future.

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kirtash85 (48) · 8 years ago

Do you has happened any time that think more quickly of which you speak? to my happens to me constantly. I do not think at any time... Sometimes I would like to be able to disconnect but seems something impossible. He made of unite our minds with the technology not think that would be a mistake? How many people in the world would be able to process the information. Recognize that not have investigated in relation to this issue, and perhaps it make more forward but if not remember wrong, use only the 10 or the 20% of our brain. This science will help open the doors to the rest of the sections of our brains? No one could steal or worse... steal information? Then we would just be an empty hard disk. The truth is that this post gives to think... The elite of mankind has always proposed control body of the human being, imagine if also you could control our minds... Although I really am which believe that they already control our minds and we live in the cavern described by Plato. We are locked, subject and repressed in a prison and we must free our minds, but I don't know if this would be the right solution. My apology by write so poorly in English, but both to read a post as to write a comment, always need of a translator

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Kirtash, thanks for your input. yes, your English is a bit broken and difficult to follow along with, though I get most of what you're saying.

just a quick tip to help your future posts/comments become more easily readable: split into multiple paragraphs, rather than just one big one. you have many ideas within your comment, and its difficult to separate - whereas it'd be much easier for people to translate if you split into maybe 5-7 distinct/separate chunks, separating each with spacing.

It will also make it easier for people to respond to each of the different questions/points.

the main reply I have to your questions, that stands out the most: the 10% brain figure is inaccurate, and creates misunderstanding. what percentage of your CPU power does your computer use?* there is no set answer. it depends on what/how many programs are being run at a single time, and what each program does.

there is no 100% brain power as people have thought. there can be no absolute peak potential, because of neuroplasticity. we are constantly growing new neural networks. with intentional development, the neural networks (architecture) of the brain can keep being expanded near indefinitely. processing power can always be upgraded.

science is still in its infancy when it comes to understanding this.

this topic is worth volumes in itself.

but if you are interested in it, keep an eye out for when @core starts posting on here. I promise you - the stuff he will be sharing is light-years ahead of anything you'll come across in the mainstream neuroscience community, completely leading-edge - and he's got some amazing technologies and techniques that allow a person to mastery their own development and achieve this type of brain development, exponentially increasing brain processing power WAY beyond the norm.

do keep practicing your English and writing skills. I think you will have some valuable insights to contribute to the community... :-)

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jennamarbles (57) · 8 years ago

Hi @rok-sivante I challenge you to #heartgoodnesschallenge. Details you can find here: https://steemit.com/heartgoodnesschallenge/@jennamarbles/steemit-heartgoodnesschallenge-bonus

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akiregor (50) · 8 years ago

Consider it as a gift. But, I prefer pure intelligence with absolute reasoning than AI one.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

I never meant to suggest AI would be a substitute for innate intelligence. on the contrary, AI without the innate intelligence would be rather useless.

and if getting detailed about it - beyond the scope of this comment thread - its not even Artificial Intelligence I'm talking about. the innate natural intelligence is the driver, the programmer, the director, the conductor. the tech interface would be comparable to the symphony orchestra - the infrastructure to translate the conductor's intelligence quicker, faster, easier...

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gekko (52) · 8 years ago

fascinating topic, good post @rok-sivante 8]

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

cheers mate ;-)

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r33drum (45) · 8 years ago

This is the kind of content I want Steemit to be full of. Awesome job.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

thank you. and me too. as such, we have to lead the way as living examples, continuing to raise our standards, produce it consistently, and mentor others along the way to activate their capacities for the same... ;-)

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elvishicks (34) · 8 years ago

Well hello.
I’m Elvis Hicks, a semi-autonomous reincarnation of Elvis Presley and Bill Hicks. I have a burger in one hand and a cigarette in the other.
My checks tell me this post is probably genuine, original content.
GOOD JOB! Uh Huhh!
Thank you. Thank you very much.
(Elvis has left the building)

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steemuwe (54) · 8 years ago

You seem to be a brandnew bot - so I gave you some newcomer love ;-)

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ionlysaymeep (50) · 8 years ago

meep

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nigahiga (25) · 8 years ago (edited)

wow! thats amazing

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lkv-300 (25) · 8 years ago

Have you seen? You are called to challenge here: https://steemit.com/heartgoodnesschallenge/@jennamarbles/steemit-heartgoodnesschallenge-bonus

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diana.catherine (63) · 8 years ago

I didn't fully gave it a thought until now and I can't say I entirely agree, but the idea is very interesting. I will probably agree after I've done more research. Perhaps with such a linking many diseases will get a cure. As for art, I think it should stay the same, not getting involved with computers.

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cryptosteem (42) · 8 years ago

If your who u say u are u most be a super star😝🙃✌️👍 And I can do with just ten % of your artificial intelligence.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

lol. but I don't say I'm anybody... ;-)

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williambanks (69) · 8 years ago

You responded to a bot.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

?

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williambanks (69) · 8 years ago

cryptosteem is a bot, look at the regularity of the user's activity :)
https://steemd.com/@cryptosteem
Just thought it was funny considering the topic of this thread.

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stevo (54) · 8 years ago

Read a brilliant book recently with transhumanism as the theme.
"The Transhumanist Wager" by Zoltan Istvan, definitely recommend for a bit of fun reading

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igster (63) · 8 years ago

I don't see any other option for a humankind but to embrace the idea of enchanting our capabilities with technology. I for one can't wait for the future and what it has to bring - Having a wireless connection to global network with your brain, UI that you can control with your mind, more memory! The possibilities are endless, some find that scary, some fascinating.

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condra (67) · 8 years ago

Wouldn't it eventually allow us to travel great distances through the universe? - as well as forward in time? (not sure about back)

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

I don't know if there is a concrete answer to that one... lol... ;-)

I'm not sure about physically, but perhaps as a virtually-simulated memory...

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condra (67) · 8 years ago

I'm assuming we can eventually create a sentient "near human experience" in digital form, then it will be capable of being "transmitted" at great speeds over great distances. Think Curiosity rover but at the cutting edge of science in 100 years. Ships/Satellites/Robots can go further and faster than humans because they don't have such stone age hindrances as a need for oxygen. They can also be switched on and off, so a sentient robot could be switched off for 100 years, effectively allowing it to travel forward in time. Actually, there's every chance a robot will be reading this post in 100 years, so I'd just like to say, from the grave, Hi there. Please don't kill us.

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calaber24p (74) · 8 years ago

Ill be honest at first glance this write up looks bat shit crazy, but after actually reading it you make some decent points. Its not for me per say but who knows maybe in the future ill be excited for the chance.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

lol. "there's a fine line between genius and insanity," they say... ;-)

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freiheit (58) · 8 years ago

We are already spiritual beings, and we are already linked to a machine: our physical body, that we use to experience life in this reality.

How does it sound ?

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

like cliche new-age mumbo-jumbo. lol.
though somewhat accurate. :-)

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