I'm usually not that much of a meme person and thus I apologize to my followers for this exception from my self-imposed meme abstinence. However, I just have to state the following after spending some time reading certain posts concerning vaccinations and claims about their "exceptional risks" on Steemit:
Dear, Anti-Vaxxers on Steemit, I know you will have some arguments "proving" the danger of vaccines. So, please: Bring it on!
P.S: Let's please keep it civil and let's refrain from personal insults. We might disagree about vaccines (and possibly some other topics as well) but life is too short to be angered by random people on the Internet. That being stated,
I'm not really interested in arguing about something that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence about, once you get past the monetary interests. If you want to know, you can know without anyone getting upset.
All I'm interested in saying is, if there is one mandatory vaccinator on Earth, it is too many. If you want vaccines, be my guest. Please have more. If there were cogent argument for vaccines, I suspect this post would contain some. I don't see any. Every argument brought forward by the mandatory vaccinators has been discredited and rejected time and again. I haven't seen one yet that holds any water upon the most cursory of inspection. The Rock pantomiming 'bring it on' is not an argument.
Read some more R.A.W., he'll provide you with the perspective you need to understand individual choice. He did say never to trust anyone with the initials H.C.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
"If there were cogent argument for vaccines, I suspect this post would contain some." Are you saying that the fact my post doesn't contain any facts is proof that the fact that vaccines do work is not a fact? That is like writing "Your article doesn't mention oxygen. If there were cogent arguments for the existence of oxygen, I suspect this post would contain some. I don't see any." If you want to tell me vaccines don't work, it's your job to disprove their efficiency.
"The Rock pantomiming 'bring it on' is not an argument." That's very much correct. :-)
I also thank you very much for the R.A.W reference. I'm glad we can agree on the fact that he was an awesome author.
"Every argument brought forward by the mandatory vaccinators has been discredited and rejected time and again." How do you explain the fact that some countries do have some mandatory vaccines? Please note that I'm not saying I'm pro-mandatory vaccines. I haven't made up my mind on that, yet.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
If you'll read carefully, you'll see that I used the word 'suspect'. You seem to use the word 'fact' a bit liberally. I think that you might have misread R.A.W.'s work, if you can still refer to the shaky assertions that vaccines work as fact. Did you only read 'Illuminatus!'? I usually don't recommend his work to anyone I don't think will read ALL of it.
The oxygen comment is a clear straw man if there ever was one.
It is not my responsibility to prove they don't work. The claim is yours that people who don't believe they work should get off of Steemit. You do know how this claim and argument thing works, right? I make no claim, but that I have my natural rights, which includes what I put in my body, and I have the right to defend myself if anyone attempts to violate my right to choose, for myself, what I do with my life, liberty, and property.
The fact that some countries do have some mandatory vaccines, does not prove that they work without damage. It simply demonstrates that some governments believe they have the power to force their populace to fall in line. Wilson wouldn't have any of it, Hagbard wouldn't either, and I won't either. Mandatory vaccinations is an act of war on the individual's biology, and a clear violation of the rights of the individual, and a violation of international law, if their authority means anything to you. It doesn't to me, but any tool to protect my rights that is useful, I use.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I am against anyone forcing me to do anything that is against my will ...scares the shit out of me...
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
You mean you are against people who willingly abstain from committing a social act which would favour and protect all people who are not able (for medical reasons) to commit that very same act. Right?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I am saying no one should be able to force someone else to do something against their will. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_treatment
Herd immunity is unproven...infections like measles still occurs in populations like China that are 99% vaccinated. Doctors can't tell the difference between chicken pox, small pox, and monkey pox...oh my...then there is the profits made from unneeded vaccinations, forcing populations to take more and more vaccinations, which there are not enough studies out regarding what happens to old and young immune systems subjected to multiple vaccinations and combinations of adjuvants....then there is the shedding of live viruses into the environment and their sharing of genetic data with other viruses, causing very aggressive diseases spread through sewer systems. Also live viruses around immune damaged people is very dangerous.
http://www.nvic.org/cmstemplates/nvic/pdf/live-virus-vaccines-and-vaccine-shedding.pdf
To many unknowns and too much profits with forced vaccination...
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/07/05/herd-immunity-the-flawed-science-and-failures-of-mass-vaccination-suzanne-humphries-md-3/
I'd rather go through the disease than suffer from unknown sideffects. I had the measles and chicken pox as a kid...it was an awesome vacation from school.
A British man who was vaccinated against polio has been producing the virus for nearly 30 years.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34082627
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Oh, boy. Where to start here... I'll try to do my best step by step.
1.) You wrote: "Herd immunity is unproven". My reply: Nope, it's not. Please read this if you want to learn more or provide a source for your claim that herd immunity is unproven.
2.) You wrote: "infections like measles still occurs in populations like China that are 99% vaccinated". My reply: Let me quote from this paper: "China began a 6-year measles elimination campaign. The strategy included a routine 2-dose measles-containing vaccine (MCV) for children 8 months and 18–23 months of age, supplemented by nationwide vaccination activities in 2010 for children born during 1996–2010 (1). As a result, China’s measles incidence rate has dropped sharply since 2008 and reached its lowest level (0.46 cases/100,000 population) in 2012 (2). However, the rate has risen again since 2012; in 2014, incidence was 3.88 cases/100,000 population (3). Shenyang, a hub city in northeastern China, experienced a massive measles outbreak in 2014, and we analyzed the causes and characteristics of this outbreak." And here is another important part: "One risk factor is the limited vaccine coverage. China started the measles vaccine plan in the 1960s, but from 1960 until the 1980s, local vaccination coverage was poor for suburban populations."
3.) You wrote: "Doctors can't tell the difference between chicken pox, small pox, and monkey pox...oh my..". My reply: Says who?
4.) You wrote: "then there is the profits made from unneeded vaccinations". My reply: Yes, we live in capitalism. But how does your statement relate to the safety and effectiveness of vaccines?
5.) You wrote: "then there is the shedding of live viruses [...]". My reply: Do you expect me to read 59 pages now? Please clarify: What's the intention of your statement? What exactly do you want to prove?
6.) You wrote: "I'd rather go through the disease than suffer from unknown sideffects.". My reply: Good luck with that! Have you ever had polio or smallpox?
7.) You wrote: "A British man who was vaccinated against polio has been producing the virus for nearly 30 years.". My reply: Your quoted article states that the man "had an immune disorder that mean the weakened polio virus used to vaccinate him in childhood survived in his body." What are you suggesting? Stopping all polio vaccinations because a rare immune disorder helps the polio virus to hide in the body of those people?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I'm done arguing, thank you for your reply! I am suggesting that you cannot force people into taking medicine or ideologies they do not want or need.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
That was almost too easy... See you around. :-)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Yes, I agree, but come at me with a needle and syringe full of chemicals I do not want and I'll shoot you. Allopathic medicine is great fixing broken bones and organs but it sucks hind teat working with the endocrine systems and other complicated subtle systems. Have a great day!
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Its not really a point to argue, which vaccine do you mean. IMHO some are fine and some are a pure revenue grab. But really the vaccinated person has no argument, as in if they are vaccinated then (by the nature of their argument) those who are not are no threat to them.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Well, maybe not to them but to others who can't be vaccinated due to young age, old age, illnesses, etc...
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
What would Eris say =)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Well, she is very pleased by the amount of discord in this debate. :-)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Hail Eris & Praise Kek. You have a new follower =) 7777777
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I'm very pleased to find yet another true believer here. I'm not so sure yet whether you are worthy of having Hagbard Celine as one of your followers but time will tell...
And always remember: King Kong died for your sins!
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
https://steemit.com/art/@eight-rad/cypt0-mag1k-getting-sp-with-witchcraft
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
It turns out you are indeed worthy of being followed by Hagbard Celine. Welcome to the Erisian community.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Riddle me this, how come measles and polio are not a problem in the US and other countries that have been vaccinating for a long time, but they are still a problem in countries that do not have a vaccination program ?
That would clearly point toward the vaccine having a great effect.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Was that question meant for me? Polio has been eradicated in the US.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
No it was more a statement of support, I considered writing a post along the same lines as the one you posted there. Good job!
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Well, in that case: Thank you very much for your support. :-)
P.S: You might want to consider to follow @jaki01 if you are into chess. He posts many chess-related articles and quizzes which might be a nice source of entertainment for you.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
weird I didn't follow him, well thanks for the suggestion I follow him now.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I don't see why this discussion still gets started. It is up to the individual whether or not one wishes to be vaccinated. This discussion leads nowhere virtually every single time, with no ideas truly being communicated. Each time it involves 2 or more parties trying very hard to reaffirm their own beliefs.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
The second part is very true @funderground. But isn't that the case for basically all discussions? Especially on the Internet? Concerning the first part of your statement: Choosing not to vaccinate, poses a serious threat to the eradication of certain diseases. I find this concerning but I know that many people don't see a problem with that.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
If a person wants to die of a disease then let them die of a disease. That would be natural selection. Are you suggesting mandated vaccinations?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
What if some parents decided to abstain from vaccinating their children and they die because of that decision? I haven't thought about mandated vaccinations yet but right now I hardly see any downsides for this approach. The only one maybe being increasing doubts against vaccines in general if people are literally forced to have them.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Mandated vaccinations imply people are forced. For those who disagree, they will be met with violence by those enforcing the laws. When people are threatened with violence, they naturally start to feel threatened and distrust the people in charge.
These people don't trust the vaccines and they don't want them injected into the children. The above would suggest that these people would be told they must vaccinate, unless have their children taken. What happens if the parents still object, and refuse to let the police inside to take their children? The door will certainly be busted down, and if they continue to resist they will likely be injured and/or shot. This is a widepsread threat of violence which will certainly cause distrust and hardly seems civilized.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Solidly reasoned arguments don't need to be mandated, only faulty ones. The evidence of harm is all anyone needs to see this. Any attempt at mandatory vaccination should be met with self defense, using all force possible. Mandatory vaccination is a violation of the Nuremberg code. It is in the first line.
https://steemit.com/vaccines/@lifeworship/mandatory-vaccination-is-in-violation-of-the-nuremberg-code
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
According to the German Wikipedia article "Impfpflicht" several countries (including the Czech republic, Italy, Hungary, France, Belgium, etc...) already have mandated vaccinations for certain diseases. Sorry for not being able to provide an English source.
I'm not aware of any violent situations resulting from mandated vaccinations. However, I agree with you that mandated vaccinations in the U.S would definitely be perceived the way you describe it by many people.
Difficult topic, indeed...
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Exactly, get your vaccines and shut up, you are now safe so let the rest please not have their vaccines if they wish so. Problem? No Problem. Case closed.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
"Get your vaccines and shut up" why don't you like people questioning this stuff? Does it make you feel anxious or afraid? People telling others to shut up are usually afraid/anxious.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Very nice ~.~ thank you for sharing
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Why are you calling people anti-vaxxers? I mean there is stuff that works and there is stuff that doesn't. So if you get scammed, naturally you're pissed off. Doesn't grant you the right to stupidly label somebody because you don't understand.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit