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in minnowsunite •  8 years ago  (edited)

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The history of Native Americans in North America was certainly an interesting history. Let's talk about it a little. There are obviously pro-minority groups, and there are the nationalists/fascists that just want to melt together all communities, and they both have different views about Natives. Now let me share with you my view, derived from facts, not feelings.

  • The Left is pro minority, since they recognize that injustices were made against Natives, however they are mostly just virtue signaling, they don't actually care about them, they just want their vote, and keep them under their political control.
  • The "Right", which is not really the Right, it's more like conservative nationalism, which is nationalist collectivism, that would classify as a different flavor of Left, but whatever, doesn't even hide the fact that they don't care, more so, they outright just want to annex the remaining lands to justify their political supremacy.

So the Left only cares like a pimp cares about his whore, and the Right, is just outright hostile towards Natives. It seems to me that both ideologies are flawed. So the only right and moral position is the libertarian/freedom oriented position, which means that private property is private property, and it should not be infringed, and might does not make right.



Now that being said let's look at what arguments the Conservative Nationalists have (CN from now):


  • CN: The Natives were savages, so colonization actually helped them to civilize their primitive society and integrate them into an advanced moral society.
  • ME:
  1. First of all, Europe was nowhere near a moral society since it was one of the most barbaric society in the middle ages and the inquisition. Secondly, invading somebody to teach them morals, does not prove that you have morals.
  2. Natives were advanced in their own way. Certainly herbal medicine was very advanced, better than today's Nazi medicine. Then again nobody asked for your help. Plus a small tribal society is infinitely better than a giant centralized government. You might have an argument against tribalism, but the violence is nowhere near that amount that it is now under a fascist police state. So you might criticize tribalism, but it's still infinitely better than fascism.


  • CN: A lot of land was unused, therefore setting up settlements in unused land, is not stealing land but claiming land.
  • ME: OK I can accept that argument, but that was not what happened. The colonist settlements were used as a base of operations, and then they manipulated tribes against eachother to conquer more lands as a result.


  • CN: Many tribes fought against eachother so we had to intervene to stop the massacre.
  • ME: This is classic Neo-Con interventionist agenda. If you see 2 people on the street fighting that does not give you the right to kill them both, as "intervention". At best you should reason with them, but if they don't listen, let them fight. It's not your job to interfere in other people's lives. Might does not make right.



  • CN: We should not pay restitution for the crimes of colonialism that happened 200 years ago
  • ME: I agree, but then you should also stop hurting the rights of the Natives, and start respecting their property rights. If you want to put a pipeline in sovereign land, then you should ask for authorization from the Natives, pay property taxes and export tariffs, as if it were a sovereign land. Just like you demand from other citizens of the State. Don't be a hypocrite.

So that is my view on Natives. Herding them into Nazi-style ghettos, or trampling on their property rights is not exactly respect of minority rights. But then hypocritically the Neo-Cons demand the same thing from others what they themselves could not do.

I am still an individualist, and I would hope that one day humanity will become individualist, where tribal questions like these won't be an issue. This doesn't mean that people have to give up their culture, but it should also not mean that they should be herded into a dominant 1 World Government Culture. Let everyone be free.


Sources:
https://pixabay.com


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Here is an alternative to the party lines,...

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

So the argument in this video basically boils down to: might makes right, It's the right of any state or people to get away with as much murder and killing as they can, because others do it. Expansion and colonialism are human nature and you'd better get used to it.

...(facepalm)

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I think he tries to say that if whites are to be held accountable for their crimes in the USA, than other empires/peoples need to be held accountable exactly the same. But they're not. The arab and ottoman crimes and slavetrade of Europeans is pretty much ignored. The aztec brutality as well. Not to forget millions of deaths through communism caused by largely Jewish revolutionaries and intellectuals.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Everyone is responsible for the predictable consequences of their own actions.

If I pick up a rock, and throw it in the face of my neighbor, and then turn around and say to the horrified onlookers:

"look, people have been throwing rocks for a long time... if you want to hold me to account for my actions here today, first you're going to have to deal with every other rock thrower that ever lived."

The onlookers will be understandably horrified that this is my position.

That is the point, I don't want anyone to be held accountable for things they personally didn't do. This collective guilt is nonsense collectivist crap. Let's just drop the past, stop the conflict.

And let's start respecting eachother's rights. What is the point in fighting over stupid old crap.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

We can learn a lot from history. Otherwise, we're just conveniently tossing things down the memory-hole because it's uncomfortable. Real, horrible things have happened, within living memory. People now living survived those things, they will have to deal with them one way or another for the rest of their lives. Part of living is being in uncomfortable situations and learning from them.

Tell me, who feels guilt? Do you personally feel ashamed when these 'collectivists' use their words? If so, then I would suggest that you have something you feel ashamed about. If you do not feel ashamed, then, what's the problem?

People are trying to manipulate others, every day, 24/7 ... on so many levels. And this is what you want to spend your energy on? Trying to shame those who make you feel ashamed into not shaming? (sigh)

Scolding abstract groups of people conveniently labeled 'collectivist' to stop talking about whatever it is that's on their mind that makes you feel a certain way is an act of pure futility.

We are responsible for ourselves right? Then we are responsible for owning how things make us feel, and investigating why that is... Not turning the blame for these feelings, whatever they may be, onto some 'other'.

But you have to expose the liars, otherwise they will poison the minds of more people into this stupid ideology.

You stop the lies by exposing the liar, and by stopping the lies, only then you can start your own journey.

You can't be free alone, you need others to be free as well in order for you to be free.

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