Important Changes to Minnow Support Upvote Bot Behavior

in minnowsupportproject •  7 years ago  (edited)

msplogo

Important changes to Minnow Support upvote bot behavior


We need to talk about the current state of this account and how it is used for the free upvote bot on Discord.

Put simply, it's getting drained.

Recently, we completely redesigned and upgraded our upvote bot on Discord. This change has actually allowed for a greater use of the bot, as we no longer penalize with a cool-down on any incorrect use of the command. Each user is only given a cool-down once they successfully use the command. This cool-down is currently 12 hours.

While the bot had been down for this redesign/upgrade for more than a week, it had a chance to recharge to 100% several times. Some manual curation was done to prevent wasting the VP of the bot during that period.

This situation as of now:

  • Upon opening for voting with the new bot, the account was at approx. 72% VP.
  • In the last 63 hours since then, approximately 4,970 votes at 1% have been made.
  • This has left us at (at the time of writing this post) 39.13% VP (worth only about $0.15 at current SP)

This will eventually drain the account to to an even more unacceptable level if we do nothing. As it stands, we already consider this VP% to be lower than is optimal.

Without a significant SP delegation increase, this will continue to be a problem at the current settings.

To this end, we are going to be changing the cool-down period on each user for the use of the command.


At release of this post, @minnowsupport will move to a 24 hour cool-down period on the bot command in Discord.


At this time we are going to leave the voting weight of each use of the command at 1% and monitor the situation. There is going to be internal discussion of other possible methods to help the bot recover, like taking one day each week to stop upvoting and allow the bot to recover some. Any such changes will be announced.

Some other changes that are currently pending.

We have always been somewhat active in reviewing content that gets upvoted and filtering or even Blacklisting as needed.

Post with examples on some of our guidelines for content quality.

While in the past we did this manually, we are going to be adding some filters that are active at time of use of the bot. This will serve to help users not waste a cool-down on an upvote we will just pull after the fact, and helps to inspire them to use their 1 upvote every 24 hours on their best possible posts. It will also free up staff here to spend more time reviewing and preventing actual abuse of the bot, as well as coaching for those that might just need to up their quality levels.

For the purposes of transparency, we are going to be clear about these filters here. These are not going to be enabled immediately, but starting in the coming week. (Dependent on implementation). None of these are because we don't believe in the platforms involved, simply that they are inherently going to have posts that are outside our quality guidelines.

The following post criteria will not be allowed to succeed at the time of command use:

  • dMania: Currently the dMania platform only allows for a single image/video to be part of the post. We already filter these posts manually, but as no post created with dMania can meet our guidelines without being edited (and thereby removing them from consideration for dMania upvote), any post by dMania will always be under our requirements.
  • dLive: In the same vein as this, but even more clear cut. These posts are always a link to the currently available live-stream and do not even continue to be valuable content after the stream has ended.
  • Steepshot: Like dMania, these posts are intended to be a single image generally. This places them outside our standards for use on upvote. We find it will be easier to ask our members to instead create another post that does fit our guidelines and use their cool-down on that, rather than expect each Steepshot post to be manually allowed/restricted by our team.

At this time, those are the only criteria which have been voted on internally by our team. These do not represent the total changes we may make, and are subject to change/addition at any time in the future. (We will of course endeavor to announce any changes to the filter for transparency.)

We continue our mission to help as many new Steemit users as we can. Regardless of this being from our efforts at coaching on content creation, answering questions about Steemit and the blockchain in Discord, or even just providing our free upvote bot. We want to see every minnow succeed and we believe the above changes will best help us do that.

If you have any questions, please join us in Discord and ask an available Moderator or member of leadership.

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I share the changes, you support a lot of people and it's not easy. Good job!

i also supported by @minnowsupport and always share about the support of them....you start a nice and benificial job for little ours..As a little i will support you in future

I like the fact that you're actively not supporting spammy posts, garbage posts, or content of minimal value. Your bot is a great service for the smaller folks, and adjusting to a 24hr window makes it more helpful to all, and is similar to what other services (eg qurator) use.

Second that.
Spam trash and pap filler not only obscures anything of value (to someone) but as far as I am concerned it commits a capital offence - it wastes my time. My life! From getting on a doing what I prefer most - idling! Instead of scrolling through endless pages of verbage and tech mumbo-jumbo instructions how to post, nominate, upvote or send crypto.

If you can say it with 280 character on Twitter you don't need 280 words on Steemit just because it's free

Thanks @discordiant for putting this excellent post together!

Thank you. Glad I didn't put in too many typos.

I agree with comment you
Please follow me @israfuliqbal
I'm new user steemit

What is considered spam or abuse?

  1. Asking for money, views, upvotes, FOLLOWS, or resteems.
  2. Leaving nearly identical or materially similar comments on multiple posts.
  3. Comments that are unrelated to the topic of discussion.
  4. Sending unsolicited links or requests to users via wallet memos.
  5. Posts that require upvotes to enter or play in a contest or game.
  6. Sending users a link to your blog or a post if it is not relevant to the conversation.
  7. Posts or comments that include little or nothing more than an offer to trade follows or upvotes.
  8. Using tags that are unrelated to the post.
  9. Threatening users with any type of physical violence.
  10. Not citing sources when using someone else’s material.
  11. Posting ‘not safe for work’ content without using the “nsfw” tag.
  12. Selling or offering to buy votes/resteems/follows, or schemes that facilitate this.
  13. Scams or Fraudulent offers.

teach them some manners :D

I'm afraid I'm not making myself very popular @macrophotography, I post that snip from the FAQ with disturbing regularity, though it is typically to newbies.
Not always though, I had to hit up someone for asking for upvotes or follows, who had been in Steemit for several months.
How can you be here for three + months and NOT know the rules?

I will not be around the minnowsupport server, this up/down broke, gotta recharge etc...is too much for me to try and keep up with.
My time is valuable, even though as has been pointed out "It's free money" it is NOT free when I spend hours coming to check to see if I can upvote, 10-12 days, to only get $1.50 (approx) in upvotes in a week, then it is down again for another 10 days.
I'm seriously thinking of dropping all involvement with bots in general, and relying on the quality of my work to get me upvotes.

have you tried @qurator?

I've been with qurator almost from the beginning. I have it on an autoupvote. I'm still on the fence with that one too.
https://steemvoter.com/
Thanks @macrophotography

me too with all 3 accounts :)

i actually like the updates.. i feel like way to many people take advantage of this great service and they put out shit posts just to get the few extra cents.. Lots of my upvotes services have gone this way lately, but i completely understand. It is hard to put out more than one good article a day, and if you are really doing that you shouldn't have to depend on an upvote service to make money, if they are quality posts then other people will upvote them.. Anyhow, thanks again for all that you do over there at minnowsupport, it really is a huge help for minnows!

We are new to this whole concept, how does one "call" minnowsupport??

by comparison, we're familiar with !orginalworks call bc we use it to verify all our posts are 100% created organically, not copied or plagiarized. We've noticed that sometimes cheetah makes some AWFUL appearances for stuff that isn't even remotely copied or plagiarized. Sometimes posting a simple source link for a referenced article can cause people to suspect you're a fraud-- which sucks when you're not.

I still would like to see the use of active delegation to support MSP.

Me too

Yes, I agree on this.

I understand the attempt behind this.
I have no issue w/ the one vote a day. But I would like to see it set at like 22hrs. The reason is that would allow for people to post at same time each day. At 24 hrs, you have to post a little later each day to get the vote,or time it just right. I feel the 2 hr leeway would help to avoid this problem,While at the same time still promote the one vote a day concept.
Thank you for considering my input.

We can look into this. We want to see where the numbers lay, but I suspect the best short term fix is to wait a bit longer on one cool-down and set the new 'time' each day to be earlier. Will take many days to slide to a time that is too late.

So every month,or two you are posting an hr. later... :-)
I an not one to post at same time,I know there are better times to post,and a lot of people try to post at peak use times,I can see were this would hinder those attempts.
I believe it would be harder to manipulate a two vote in one day w/ 22 hr window ,than having to time it right to post at same time each day.
thank you for your response! and for considering my input.
Namaste!

I found it problematic, and I didn't notice this being an issue until after this recent update.

Here is how I had been proceeding with posting to minnowsupport/$upvote.
I would open Discord in the morning/evening, I would click in the search area, the drop-down would show my UPDATE posts or mentions. Click update, and it shows the most recent upvote.
So, I set the timer in my phone to alert me when 12 (twelve) hours + one minute after that last upvote occurred.
I would be denied the upvote because the bot was counting the SECONDS since the last upvote.
"Can't upvote, you're in cooldown for another 5.4 seconds" (for example)
~
Now how in the heck can we, as simple minnows, know the EXACT SECONDS of our previous post?
I thought this was NITPICKING in the extreme. I was already adding a whole sixty seconds to the previous post time ie... previous upvote at 7 am, I set my timer for 7:01 PM, 12 hrs + one minute.
Still got denied for blah blah number of seconds. 😜

All that being said @minnowsupport and @discordiant, I have no problem with a 24 hr cooldown period, I just didn't know about the change.
Thanks for pointing me to this post.

We are working to add a command like $cooldown that will help you to see in HH:MM:SS when your next $upvote can occur. We think this should be a matter of picking your best post from the ones you have already made, not making a post just for the purpose of using our $upvote on it.

We really were draining the bot, so the 24hrs had to happen. If you have to wait an extra minute or even several hours after your cooldown to have a convenient time to do $upvote, that is fine. You aren't missing something by doing it later than right on cool-down. Steemit won't go anywhere in that time.

I agree, but I say again, I didn't/don't have a problem other than

I didn't know.



I really like the idea of a $cooldown command to show me exactly when the last upvote occurred.
Even though I am small potatoes, I would consider delegating a small amount, IF I understood delegation better ha ha...
Thank you for your time and effort in all this.

This should have been the norm from the starting. Not many people can dish out quality content in 24hrs, much less in 12 hrs. I like your bot btw. Upvoted with my tiny vote.

I agree

High five bros and lady bros!

Thanks for the information and the work you do.
Congratulations.

Very interesting to visit ,,

I really support ur decision.

I feel this approach will make it better.

very good post

yes good boss @minnowsupport

Way to go...

You guys really have a nice team there and I love the way you analyse and regulate the use of the bot such that it is beneficial to the community.
Keep it up

I am trying to find this particular facebook page, so I can shame them. Can you send me a link?

What is considered spam or abuse?

  1. Asking for money, views, upvotes, FOLLOWS, or resteems.
  2. Leaving nearly identical or materially similar comments on multiple posts.
  3. Comments that are unrelated to the topic of discussion.
  4. Sending unsolicited links or requests to users via wallet memos.
  5. Posts that require upvotes to enter or play in a contest or game.
    6. Sending users a LINKto your blog or a post if it is NOT RELEVANT to the conversation.
  6. Posts or comments that include little or nothing more than an offer to trade follows or upvotes.
  7. Using tags that are unrelated to the post.
  8. Threatening users with any type of physical violence.
  9. Not citing sources when using someone else’s material.
  10. Posting ‘not safe for work’ content without using the “nsfw” tag.
  11. Selling or offering to buy votes/resteems/follows, or schemes that facilitate this.
  12. Scams or Fraudulent offers.

Interesting blog with some interesting facts, thanks....

upvoted done...
thanks for sharing..
carry on...

Good....upvote mine plz

Thanks for information. Nice post

We're inching closer and closer to a better Steemit ecosystem!

:)

I join all these groups and i am wondering how it has benefitted me......still wondering

Thanks for your post.i appreciate

I just recently had my second upvote since I became a member, and I can tell you for a fact how much it means to me...

That said, I really want everyone to get the benefits that I do. Would a voluntary every other day schedule help? Or skip the financial part and just get the exposure? That's what I'm really after. Connecting with fellow minnows (or probably more correctly, minnow food) and experienced folks.

Thanks for all you do. Please know that I appreciate your hard work and dedication.

I wish this article had more links to help newbies. For example, link to what the cooldown is and why it is useful

ok noted

()

It's OK. Quality content is the king.

I very much like the decision taken by you. But i like to add this time period should be 20 hours.

  1. With this the minnow like me get upvote in 24 hours period. because in 24 hours period, it is difficult to upvote one post every day. We are not the bot, to get the exact time required upvote regularly.
  2. With this method, the ninnowsupport bot also be recharged over a period of time gone. Because currently about one week bot is closed, so everyone in hurry to get upvote on all previous posts. This situation is not more than 7-8 days now.

I welcome all initiative done by @minnowsupport bot project. Thanks for support us.

  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment
Thanks for the information

nice post sir

Just join the project today. and looks like I am now 24 hours cooling period. No problem for me at all as I don't post more than 1 post in 24 hours.
Thanks for the update.

thank you information .. hopefully I was free from my punishment .. because the punishment I received was a misunderstanding

The changes have been noted
I do hope it gradually improves

I think one day is a good period. I just started this bot yesterday and today cooldown time raises to 24 hours. How about my luck :)

Excelente idea, creo que estaría bien un dia de descanso y haganlo variable para que la gente no se acostumbre a un solo día. Manito arriba... Votado.

Hola votare porti y quiro que me ayudes votado pormi tanbien

Agreed, I will only use your upvote service every 24 hours, we have to keep the bot working optimally.

Just a quick thought. Why don't change the bot to just allowing upvotes for posts from other people? This would encourage community engagement and further reduce abuse.

That's how I intend to use my free votes anyway.

Great changes, I think you are doing a great work and I hope that more people realise the value of creating quality content instead of just creating a lot of low quality content...

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Upvoting oneself also, I feel: a personal decision.
Yesterday I successfully requested and got an upvote which caused 18 votes to the post. Then discord put in the reply that I had asked for the vote and plugged themselves. I guess that's ok but it shattered any appearance of a following. Especially because I now have more votes than views. The monetary aspect was .20 so I'm not sure that creates a healthy image either. I am thankful but clearly it is a service I requested and not a true following.

we will need your mission allways

Honestly, I'm still totally confused about the bottom, but I really appreciate all the help you are offering us minnows and will check out Discord for more info. Thanks!

Thanks for the update

So happy to see these changes. It's important that the lifeblood of the service can continue. It can be hard to support minnows vs ending up supporting spammers so kudos for making this adjustment!!!

good news

me parece bien

Amazing shot.

I could use some help? i totally lost PAL chanel, i tried using your 'find us at....' links but they will not work for me :( And as i lost the hole chanel, i cant ask for help.. :(

It seems as if all upvote bots are struggling. Now, we seem to be moving to pay-to-play up-voting services (paying a monthly premium for access to the bot) and even those are sending out messages about how fast their being drained.

It's time that Steem outlaw the entire bot system.

I like your picture

Congratulations @minnowsupport!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:

  • Upvotes - Ranked 7 with 686 upvotes

Completely understand. Like that this post was very clearly made and covered everything except, what happens when the bot doesn't vote (taking into consideration all the before mentioned included on the above post) erroneously? Are we going to lose our one up vote per day, as has happened so many times before? This is my one concern.

FYI, Wish to publicly thank @discordiant once more for being a patient person and an active listener, instead of a reactive person, thus adding great value and professionalism to PAL. This is where 'Peace' comes in. Examplary of the PAL motto.

Our newly redesigned and upgraded bot will ONLY ever apply the cool-down if the upvote is successful and verified as being applied to the chain. It is actually coded to check for it before setting the timer.

This is actually part of why we had to move to 24hrs, the previous behavior of setting a cooldown even on errors was saving it from making as many upvotes per day.

Thanks, I worked hard on this post.

Excellent! Wonderful news!

very good post for upvote.
it is helpful for the steemer
actually it is a great idea
thanks for shring

I have not been able to enter the PAL channel, the link for the invitation has expired ..

Thank for guiding new steemers like me I appreciate.

I think 24 hours seems more than fair.