Why I Believe Property Tax and Capital Gains Tax Are a Scam

in money •  8 years ago 

I preface this article by saying that im not a complete libertarian and I do think that some taxes do have their uses. That being said, most of our tax dollars are misspent in ways that we couldn’t even believe and the people spending them carelessly do so because they have no repercussions. I don’t think there is a perfect way to address the tax situation, but there are definitely better approaches than other ones. Anyway onto why I believe that Property Tax and Capital Gains tax are a scam.

When we walk into a store and say, purchase a hammer, we are usually taxes a set amount, which goes to the government to be used how they see fit. From now on, our tax burden as a citizen has been paid. We can use the hammer for the rest of our lives, or until it breaks, and never have to worry again about owing anything else on it. Property tax and Capital Gains tax are completely opposite to this idea.

Say we buy a property with our own money in full. For the rest of our lives, we need to pay for the right to own land we already own. If you don’t pay property tax on property you already paid for, the government can seize it from you. Yes that’s right, the government can seize something YOU ALREADY OWN and paid taxes on in the first place. Despite you working your entire life to pay off a house, you now need to budget ever increasing property taxes into the equation. The entire system is a scam.

Granted some places in the United States don’t have property tax, but the vast majority do as a way for local governments to fund various projects that we might or might not want or agree with. Capital gains is the same idea. We have purchased something (stock, commodity, collectible, ect) that we already own and has gone up in value and if we decide to sell it, the government has a right to take a cut. Why? Because the trade is happening on their land? It is absolutely ridiculous. Not only does capital gains broken up into state capital gains, but federal capital gains as well.

When most people criticize my stance on the matter, they often will say something along the lines of “well if you don’t pay those taxes, then we cant pay for schools or other utilities.”, which I agree with now because that is how the system is setup , but that could be changed. Instead of shifting the burden on people who have already purchased a good , why not raise the tax rate on luxury goods so the tax burden is shifted to people who are constantly buying. But in our consumerist society, we want people to buy all the shit they don’t need and then punish those who have been smart with their money. It is a joke.

I don’t expect the system to change, after all the government isn’t in the business of lowering taxes. However maybe youll think twice next time and gain a different perspective when you realize how many times we are being taxed in ways that are compete scams. As for me, I think I might look into some places that don’t have property tax.

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I agree wholeheartedly. Income Tax is also legal theft!

The only definition of legal comes from the government, which requires taxes to create and enforce laws. So "taxes are legal theft" is inherently self-contradictory.

Also I wrote this a while back as to why taxes are justified: https://steemit.com/anarchy/@telos/the-landlord-analogy

I'm talking about income tax specifically, and the contradiction is kinda the point... They say it's legal so they can do it.

Taxes are unlawful because they harm people by stealing their income. Mind control which is the etymology of government is slavery. Governments are fictions and don't actually exist. The truth is that they are just men and women stealing from people. Taxes cannot be morally justified. Robbing peter to pay paul is still theft and it doesn't matter how you dress it up.

The supreme court has on numerous occasions straight out said that government has no duty to the public, which means the public has no duty to the government. In a very real way this is an admission of fraud and theft. Sorry as I didn't mean to make you feel bad.

Taxes are unlawful because they harm people by stealing their income.

You can make many claims about taxes. "Unlawful" is not one of them, as they are literally the written laws.

It's not legal. There is no law requiring people outside the jurisdiction to pay taxes out of their income. I challenge anyone to find one. If you receive no income from government you owe them nothing. lol

In the USA, how many hours do you have to work to earn enough to pay someone of your profession for one hour of work, after your taxes and everything? Where I live it's between 3 and 4 hours. So to pay an electrician for 1h of work, an electrician needs to work 3-4 hours.

I think this is a very simple way to figure out the cost of society - how much of your efforts are spent for the government, and how much for yourself.

Sadly the truth is that the federal reserve currency that we use today is worth relatively 3 cents on the dollar. That is a direct cost of having government. It means that they have been stealing from americans by taking the buying power out of the dollar through inflation. When you add that in your talking days of work to support government and corporations before you get to spend a dime.

Property tax reallllly annoys me. Income tax sucks, but you know you're taking the haircut so you just take it and make a little less -- you still get to make income. It's really weird that there's literally no way to secure yourself with a place to live and know you're set.

You say there are places in the US that don't have property tax? Where? lol. You might be right, I'd be surprised and happy to know there are options.

I think "the system" loves property tax, because it would be way easier to retire young (perhaps modestly) if you know you have your home and owe nothing else. You could even grow a food forest and live in a cabin if you didn't want bills of any kind. There maybe would evolve a totally different mindset of how much we need to accumulate and how we structure our lives if it were possible to just have your place with no further obligations.

Property tax, I think, is way more brutal than often discussed.

People claiming property taxes are moral? Is it considered moral if a family loses their home because they couldn't pay the property tax? That is what property taxes can do.

Agreed- on both counts. There are better ways of doing both. But as you state in closing, don't hold your breath the change will come of itself.

because they have no repercussions.

They can and should have repercussions. That's what voting's for. Unfortunately there are too many people who don't care or have been convinced their vote doesn't matter, or won't vote for ideological reasons.

The idea behind property taxes dates back to when the peasants lived in the shadow of the castle. The Lord of the Castle got a bit of everything the peasant raised on his land, for two reasons. One, the land was never really the peasant's in the first place. It was always really still owned by the Lord of the Castle. The Lord was just letting the peasant use it for a while. At any time, the Lord of the Castle could ride out with his Knights in Armor and simply take the land back. The peasant knew this, and tried to keep the Lord of the Castle happy.

The second reason was really more important. The thing was, there were bandits out there that would raid your farm and take everything you had if you weren't protected by the Lord of the Castle. As long as you were near the Castle and protected by the Castle, the Lord, and his Knights, you had a degree of safety you wouldn't otherwise have.

I don't know how much of this is still valid in the modern era, but don't expect things to change any time soon. There are places where property taxes are a lot less. They're in other countries. The problem with going to one of these countries is that you'd better already be rich, as the reason the property taxes are so low there is because wages are low there too. Also these other countries don't always have the respect for private property that we enjoy here in the USA. It's not unheard of for the Lord of the Castle to ride out and simply take your property, or let someone else take it.

I'm no fan or property taxes, but I don't expect them to just go away.

the whole Taxation is scam , in your topic you mentioned we need to pay for the right to own land we already own
but the truth is you don't own it you lease it from the government plus you pay the property tax for the service they offer to you by holding your title!!
if you really wants to own the land then you need to have Allodial title
here is a good link explaining the Allodial Title

I live in CA and in CA you can't get Allodial Title so to have a fully ownership of the land you should do land patent
and here is a good article about how to obtain Land Patent

plus Income Tax is the biggest SCAM Cause in constitution there is only 2 types of tax

  • Direct Tax
  • indirect Tax
  • income Tax is not one of them , plus the Supreme court ruled against it
    here is some Supreme court cases

  • "If there is no gain, there is no income." [1] ...It [income] is not synonymous with receipts. Simply put, pay from a job is a 'wage,' and wages are not taxable. Congress has taxed income, not compensation." United States Supreme Court Conner v. United States. 303 F. Supp. 1187 (1969) pg. 1191: 47 C.J.S. Internal Revenue 98, Pg. 226. (Emphasis added).
  • "The claim that salaries, wages, and compensation for personal services are to be taxed as an entirety and therefore must be returned by the individual... is without support, either in the language of the Act or in the decisions of the courts construing it... it is not salaries, wages or compensation for personal services that are to be included in gross income. That which is to be included is gains, profits, and income derived from salaries, wages, or compensation for personal services." United States Supreme Court, Lucas v. Earl, 281 U.S. 111 (1930). (Emphasis added).
  • there is a lot of cases but I don't have that time to search it for you , I will make a full post about that in future

    Hey Americans please wake up ask Question stop obey the unlawful laws
    the founder fathers (Thomas Jefferson)
    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
    lets not get fooled by any of two parties lets get our freedom back

    It is important that we ask question, but we need to find those who are not enslaved to ask those question. Asking the slave master is just asking for more slavery. Your comment is so spot on. Aloha!!!

    Thanks Bro
    God Bless !!

    It does seem like a scam. Especially when you hear about all these lying, cheating, adulterous politicians using our tax dollars to benefit themselves only. What can we do, though?

    Their system only works because people have 'faith' in it. You only get paid in USD and go to the store and spend that because people have 'faith' in it. We could all just start using another type of currency tomorrow...... something like hmmm bitcoin or one of the many other crypto options that are out there.

    It does not mean that people don't want to pay taxes if we use another type of currency, it ,means that we the people will take back the control of what we use as a means of exchange.

    We have strength in numbers. Sad to see that we are controlled by 1% . What are all the other 99% of the people doing, surely we can make some change?

    That's very true. It's amazing to think that the value of the USD could deflate instantly if everyone came to the consensus that it had no value.

    When central banks can just print as much money as they want and governments can just issue an infinite amount of debt in the form of bonds the taxation system and even our current monetary system has no relevance whatsoever.

    We are all living in a total financial illusion. When we wake up from this dream world the reality of this system that we have been in since the 1970's will be a very different place.

    Aren't ALL taxes a scam given that the "money" is created out of thin air? I have yet to hear a rational explanation of why there should be any taxes at all in our current monetary system.
    As for the property tax issue, my plan this year is to call for that hearing that is identified on the property tax assessment, coming in the mail soon, and determine if the assessor has done their duties correctly and to find out who's signature is actually making the claim against my property, among other things.

    You forget that taxes first were non-monetary, and only now money because it's way easier to transport and store a piece of paper (or a number in an bank account) then a few tons of wheat.

    Also inflation.

    But you are not so wrong as it may seem. Historically the money creation was by loaning - and then, every century or so, there was a loan forgiveness. Since the king was the biggest loan taker...
    That was also a tax, just more efficient - the rich got less rich but were still wealthy, and the ultra poor suddenly were still poor but free to try to get rich themselves.

      ·  8 years ago (edited)

    While you might be correct that the first taxes were non-monetary, they were imposed upon subjects of the ruler/king. Not on an equal sovereign. I think to this day that is still true. Exercising sovereignty is the challenge us Americans currently have before us.
    Additionally from my research, historically, money has been gold and silver coin. In recent history the practice of fiat paper currency has been to loan it into existence, at interest I might add. Also note that when gold and silver are used as a country's money, there is minimal inflation and more often than not, deflation. That deflation helps the general population rise in their standard of living.
    Thanks for your comments.

    Property taxes and capital gains taxes are too high in most places. Income taxes are completely regressive. I understand we require some taxes for society to run, but why not tax luxury items that people don't need to live? Why not tax consumption? Property taxes tax people for trying to get ahead.

    WTF do you want to "get ahead"? Why not just live a normal life?
    You say tax luxury, but property is luxury. It is the highest luxury! Especially if we are talking about owning land.

    If you tax consumption you mainly hit the poor and leave those who have lot alone. But, as the German constitution says "Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good."
    How many property owners do this without the "help" of the state?

    Some people don't want a "normal" life whatever that even means. If normal life sucks, why be satisfied with your lot in life just because most others are in the same lot? Why would you work for a better life if you're satisfied just with being mediocre and living "normal life"?

    You say tax luxury, but property is luxury. It is the highest luxury! Especially if we are talking about owning land.

    Bullshit. Our ancestors owned more property than some people do today. It's always been the case that human beings have owned property going back to the cave man. To say we should avoid having property is irrational and also doesn't match with history. People had farms, had houses, had land, and while you are right some cultures didn't need property in the sense that we do now, the fact is people had access to all of that. Please look up cultural anthropology and you will see going back many thousands of years humans have had property whether it was a tool they made, or their shelter they made, or the land they lived on, or their bodies. The humans who didn't own any property at all were property, and were treated as slaves.

    If you tax consumption you mainly hit the poor and leave those who have lot alone. But, as the German constitution says "Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good."

    Consumption isn't as necessary as you think. You require food, water, shelter, and other basics yes. You want the new smart phone, you want the new video game console, you want the new car, you want these material things which don't directly support your survival because it makes you happy. In my opinion that is what should be taxed, the wants not the necessities. Please look up the history of the Soviet Union and see how life was like when people didn't own property and were considered community property.

    How many property owners do this without the "help" of the state?

    It depends on the kind of property we are talking about. Personal property is no business of the state in my opinion. The house you live in, the car you use to go to and from work, the toothbrush you use to brush your teeth, your laptop, your desktop, your smart phone, this is personal property. Your body is personal property and it doesn't belong to the state nor does it exist to serve the public if you are living for yourself and not for the public interest.

    Property is not luxury, it's fundamental to being a person. Your body is your property and it's not a luxury that you own it. Everything which directly supports your ability to survive is not a luxury. Luxury is stuff you don't need, and cannot show that you need to survive, like the video game consoles, big screen TV, your cannabis if you use it recreationally, the coffee and beer you drink, the junk food you eat, the movies you watch, the music you listen to, these are luxuries.

    1. https://www.virgin-islands-history.org/en/history/slavery/a-slaves-life-when-people-were-property/
    2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution

    The reason people want to get ahead is the alternative is being left behind.

    Please review Soviet history and see what happened. Also study the life of Alexandra Kollontai.

    When the Bolsheviki came into power in 1917 they regarded the family, like every other 'bourgeois' institution, with fierce hatred, and set out with a will to destroy it. 'To clear the family out of the accumulated dust of the ages we had to give it a good shakeup, and we did,' declared Madame Smidovich, a leading Communist and active participant in the recent discussion. So one of the first decrees of the Soviet Government abolished the term 'illegitimate children.' This was done simply by equalizing the legal status of all children, whether born in wedlock or out of it, and now the Soviet Government boasts that Russia is the only country where there are no illegitimate children. The father of a child is forced to contribute to its support, usually paying the mother a third of his salary in the event of a separation, provided she has no other means of livelihood.

    The peasant villages have perhaps suffered most from this revolution in sex relations. An epidemic of marriages and divorces broke out in the country districts. Peasants with a respectable married life of forty years and more behind them suddenly decided to leave their wives and remarry. Peasant boys looked upon marriage as an exciting game and changed wives with the change of seasons. It was not an unusual occurrence for a boy of twenty to have had three or four wives, or for a girl of the same age to have had three or four abortions.

    References

    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Kollontai
    2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomol
    3. http://uhra.herts.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/2299/11626/Chapter_7_corpus_delecti_author_postprint.pdf?sequence=2
    4. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1926/07/the-russian-effort-to-abolish-marriage/306295/
    5. https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1920/communism-family.htm

    I fail to see any connection between marriage and sex and the horting of unused money/physical goods.

    Bottomline, you own nothing! the government concedes you the right of usage if you pay them.

    Is that in the US Constitution?

    I'm not in the US, @dana-edwards. But it's basically the same where I live. If it's in the constitution I don't know, but that's the underlying truth. For example, if I purchase let's say 10k usd in furniture for my living room, but the government tells me "hey, beautiful stuff you got in there. But you have to pay us 100 usd a year to use them. If you don't we're going to take it from you", that simply means I don't really own the 10k furniture. Apart of that, the constitution in my country is being thrown into the garbage, nobody respects it.

    I totally agree, taxes are merely the governments way to control us and grow itself. I am not 100% opposed to all taxes, but we definitely need to consider how much we money we give to government. Whenever we give taxes or vote for more funding to the government, we give them the resources to create another police "like" force to use against us.

    I agree completely ... The entire system needs to be scrapped. Nice post.....

    Interesting read. You have some points. Yet, I wonder who will pay for the roads to your house and the schools for the neighbors that aren't in bitcoin.

    ”We have purchased something (stock, commodity, collectible, ect) that we already own and has gone up in value and if we decide to sell it, the government has a right to take a cut. Why? Because the trade is happening on their land? It is absolutely ridiculous.”

    Lest also not forget, the history of “their land…” THEY being FOREIGNERS who came from overseas and MURDERED the local population, raped the native culture, outright fucking everyone in the way. “They” have no natural inherent right - it was thrust upon the people coercively, violently, in violation of human rights.

    Quite contrary are property tax (better: a tax on ground) and capital gains taxes the only ones that have a definite moral ground.

    I have no time so in short: Because YOU own the land, others cannot use it. So to make sure the land is owned (and e.g. produces hammers) the non-using has to be made expensive.

    And Capital (the one that is taxed as in capital gains) is the opposite of that production. It is non-production, simple speculation. You create "wealth" without building one hammer. At least the tax part will be used for something other then just increasing the numbers on the bank account.


    If you mean mean by property tax a tax on general wealth, then that tax is just a (way too small) corrector for the simple fact that by pure randomness money ends up in fewer and fewer pockets while others get fewer and fewer money (that is mathematically proven btw, just saying it because so many won't believe it).
    Inheritance tax is the same principle. It always surprises me that so many people that are against giving those in need money "because they are just lazy and should not get money for doing nothing", are dead set against an inheritance tax - an inheritance by definition is money for doing nothing.

    Money ends up in fewer and fewer pockets because of the nature of how it's created out of thin air and loaned to us at an interest that can never be paid back. Every dollar you have represents debt someone is paying somewhere.

    Can never be paid back? What terrible bank are you borrowing from?

    Money is debt. If all debt was payed back, there would be no money (Fiat money).

    That doesn't even remotely make sense...

    Yeah, money is really hard to understand.

    Oh I get it, you're clueless so you think if you say cryptic things you'll sound smart.

    Good job.

    Not quite. I have no need to hide my ignorance or say something cryptic. I strive to express myself as clearly as possible. I also think I understand something about money and the nature of it. It's very complex, at least for my simple brains. But I'm open to anything that helps me better understand money, economics, and what not. So do you understand money? If you do, could you point me to some good information?

    The Federal Reserve, educate yourself.

    Tax consumption not capital gains and property. People can only get out of poverty by capital gains and property. Income isn't likely to get anyone out of poverty ever. Capital gains from investment from a young age can, and property if a person buys real estate can. When people lose their homes because they didn't or couldn't pay taxes there is a problem with that.

    Definitely, most likely because they spend way too much for their income. If their income was low they would pay income taxes after all.
    And if they have property then they are living on cheaper resources then renters.

    Thinking about it again, in the US probably all it needs to get bankcrupt thanks to Trump will be to get the flu.

    People who invest both contribute to growth of the economy and fund their own retirement. Why punish that with high capital gains taxes? Especially during a time when technological unemployment is likely, why punish one of the few safe havens?

    Capital gains is not investing. If you buy a stock at 1$ and sell it at 100$ exactly 0 things got produced.
    That is the basis of the current financial problem:
    Lots and lots of money is sloshing around (so much that we have negative interest), but the banks aren't doing with it what is wanted: Loan it to companies - so that they invest.
    In fact companies are doing the opposite since 2008 - they aren't investing but instead lowering their loan amounts.
    And states are trying to do the same.
    So if the privates only put money in speculating (stocks and derivatives etc.), than we have the situation that all 3 sectors are trying to decrease investments. No wonder the economy does not work!

    The price of the stock got produced. And a company got funded in the process.

    Yes. The emission is investment. Everything after speculation. You can buy the stocks ten times and no cent goes to the company (How many times the GDP of the earth is traded daily on the stock exchanges?)

    It goes to the people who work for the company who need liquidity to sell their stock.

    Hi, If you are paying someone money for an asset you own it is not a asset it is a liability and you don't own it. Like your hammer analogy this is an asset and you own it. Like the most of the world you buy the house and own it but not the dirt it sits on, you are leasing it from the governments owners. Buy some gold and silver, you actually own that asset. IMHO Cheers

    when you dig down you find that real use for your taxes is to support the growth of an out of control Bureaucracy - mostly comprised of robots that will support the system

    There's problem in paying tax because a country needed it to establish development for the people. What's the problem here are the people holding those money from tax payment. They are using it for their own personal gain, pretending to be using it for something that is beneficial for all but ended up huge portion of the money to their pocket.

    I couldn't agree more. Governments scamming the people for all time.

    I have to agree.
    Taxation is theft. Only people who want to rob other people believe in taxation.

    @calaber24p Your article is rational to me, and I recently wrote a bit about another problem with property taxes. There is a good case that property taxes are leveraged to hold segregation in place. This is a shameless plug to try to get Steemit subscribers to read my post, but it's directly on topic, so I hope you won't mind too much: https://steemit.com/property-taxes/@redbluetalk/school-bonds-are-failing-all-of-us

    I agree 100% We should be using are money on stimulating the economy not paying more taxes! Especially on something WE own. I spent MY money on the home I'm living in so why should I pay the state every year to own it. I urge you to spread this all over so we can get the message out!

    This is a demand to ending the property tax system and giving the right to the land to the people! We demand to be given the deed to the land we live on and protect our family from the state

    No tax should have the ability to make you homeless!
    https://www.change.org/p/jerry-brown-end-property-tax-in-california