How long will it be before witness slots are dominated by vote-sellers?
Vote selling has been an issue which many users are polarized but have people really thought through the implications to their logical conclusion. I wanted to present a problem that I think, whether you assent to vote buying or not, which I believe may prompt users to think on a broader scale.
A witness is an account selected by Steem users to help secure the network and produce blocks. We should be able to trust that these individuals will act in the best interests of the Steem blockchain and are chosen via stake weighted vote mechanism. This means that the more Steem Power an account has the more value their vote will be in witness election.
So, what’s the problem?
Many vote-sellers also happen to be witnesses.. A trend I’ve noticed is these bot running witnesses tend to have themselves set as their proxy on their bot. Essentially, they are selling their voting power to accumulate massive amounts of Steem Power and turning around and using their bid bot to self vote their witness accounts. Some of these know exactly what they are doing and to these I say.
I know what you’re thinking. Sure, it’s their stake and they can do what they want with it but are we ok with vote sellers and their associates dominating the witness slots using this tactic? Perhaps, we have passed the event horizon of this thing but hell if I'm not going to say something about it.
I could only imagine the number of tacit agreements that vote sellers have arranged with other stakeholders. Vote selling is the name of the game and, if you don't participate, you are essentially viewed as an outsider. Good luck getting votes from the vote selling whales if you don't support their paradigm and business model. It's just the way it is.
Regardless, I'm thankful for the few friends I have on this blockchain that support my activities because they believe in the work I do. Not because I pay them! Yall keep me doing what I do.
I am here to serve and not exploit (even though capitalizing on vote buyers psychology is all the rage.)
That's what Steem should be all about... Unfortunately, it's not.
I know it’s been said before but why would we all not just run our own bid bots and set our Steem accounts on autopilot? The answer is simple. The bid botters need us (content creators). They could not exist without us. Why don't we just opt out of this system? If only it were that simple...
One problem is content creators have a tendency and desire to try and 1-UP each other. What better way to achieve this than a vote selling bot?!
Let's say two accounts who are essentially rivals are competing. Let's call them @pepsi and @cocacola. @pepsi creates a post about their new product. Let's call it "Super Mountain Dew". This post gets upvoted by the Steem community to Hot and @cocacola isn't having it. They decide to upvote their "Insert Generic caffeinated High Fructose Corn Syrup beverage example here" post to Trending using bots.
Maybe, @pepsi will turn around and bid bot their post is turn. Let's say this little rivalry goes on for some time. Perhaps, they will ROI if they are lucky or perhaps not. We know who will most definitely ROI in this situation though. You guessed it.... The vote seller. Who loses?
The entire breadth of users who rely on organic voting
There is no way in hell they are going to get any votes from that 30% total voting power amassed by bot owners. As these bot owners continue to accumulate SP, the percentage that us advocates of organic voting can hope to receive will continue to shrink. It's FUBAR more than this damn ratchet strap I had the misfortune of having to unravel.
Would not wish this on my worst enemy.
Another issue is the "Well someone else is going to do it so I don't want to miss out" mentality that is adopted by folks. That's a bullshit cop out in my humble opinion. You haven't seen me delegating to bid bots now, have you?
As many already know, selling voting power is the vehicle for the highest ROI on the blockchain. It requires comparatively minimal effort compared to proof-of-brain contributions as a fair portion of the process is automated.
That’s the part that irritates me as there is not much meritorious about running a bot and, furthermore, it re-appropriates the reward pool for a purpose other than rewarding quality content but rather rewarding whoever helps perpetuate the bid bot SP accumulation cycle by sending STEEM/SBD. This system favors whoever has the deepest pockets aka “pay to play”.
Our tolerance of this practice stands incongruent with the typical bewailing of the world’s corrupt political process and how it is easily manipulated by big money. Is this so different? How is it that we can rally against the bankers and politicians one moment but we gladly embrace that same iniquity when it is present in another system? A system that accentuates the disadvantages of the poor. We could have so much unfound talent on this blockchain but we will never know because they just don't have the resources.
All this under the guise or self-delusion of “promotion services”. This lie has been promulgated long enough that I surmise that even vote sellers themselves are starting to believe it. The problem is that it's just not that simple and, if it were, then be my guest and do this.
"Decline Payout", what a novel concept! If you really are just promoting your posts, you don't mind burning the rewards, right? This should also benefit us all by keeping the supply down. Sounds like a win win but there's a problem. Why would I decline rewards when I can promote my post and make my money back? That sounds too good to be true but it is still possible to ROI on bots.
You know what they say. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..
I commend the bot owners that have designed their bots to NOT be a vehicle for ROI but rather purely promotional purposes. I believe @promobot is designed to that end. Also, @lrd is another bot that actually burns rewards so I appreciate that.
Before any of you bid bot propagandists try to respond with the typical talking points, I must make it abundantly clear that there are notable distinctions between buying votes and actual post promotion. Just stop the misinformation and call it what it is. It's post rewarding services. It sounds stupid because it is...
If I promote a post on Facebook, it doesn’t automatically get likes. If I boost a post on Minds.com, it doesn’t automatically get likes. When we “promote” with bid bots on Steem, the post automatically gets upvotes. That's the difference and there isn't no dancing around it. There is more than promotion going on. There is allocation of the reward pool.
These votes confer a perception of the post having value which will result in others voting based on that perception.
The incentive to be an effective curator based on post quality is severely nerfed by vote sellers. It would be much easier to merely preempt bot votes for curation rewards. Believe me as someone that knows how to automate voting, this has been tempting but I knew better.
As long as people are willing to send them Steem / SBD, these bots will control even more of Steem’s total voting power which will, in turn, secure their witness ranks. With the witness rank, they will receive additional SP to further power their self-voting bid bots and thus the cycle perpetuates further entrenching themselves in the witness ranks.
As a seasoned server engineer, there was a point in time that I had considered purchasing the hardware to run a witness but, at this point in time, I question why I would put myself out there when the system is hopelessly skewed in favor of vote sellers. I don’t have a whale bidbot to proxy vote myself so the chances of my making a rank sufficient to offset operating costs are negligible.
I do have certain automation skills that I have been offering to better the blockchain but only a handful of people care about this. Maybe it would be better if I just drop some $$$ and run another bid bot. Everybody and their mom is doing it after all. Why don't I you may ask?
Where do I start?
- Destroys the curation incentive
- Facilitates shitposts getting rewarded.
- Centralizes Steem distribution / voting power
- Disadvantages those with less resources irrespective of the talent the bring to Steem.
![](https://steemitimages.com/640x0/https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmY29pCyCuyV96Df2ZuTzdCV53Sq4Y2r1Tm8j6hRJKdDdq/image.png)
If you really want this blockchain to be revolutionary, it's time we stop replicating the same broken systems that came before us.
Using the massive SP of your bidbots to vote your witness spot, that’s dirty pool in my mind. Bots shouldn’t be able to vote for witnesses, but the system knows no different.
Bottom line, if people would set aside greed, pride, and popularity and just do what it right, things would be amazingly different.
I have the opportunity in my occupation to make more money for myself and charge the customer more because it is overtime. Instead I ask them is they absolutely need electricity to their pump tonight. If so it will cost them twice as much to have us fix it than it would to wait until Monday to fix it. Ya I could have said nothing and worked all night long and made $1000 or more but that just isn’t right. Give the customer the option. If they want to fork over the cash then ok I will work. If they can wait until a weekday then it saves them money, yet it takes extra money out of my pocket.
Oh well
That’s how I roll, but maybe I’m just different.
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That's the thing. Some people just don't know how to to do that.
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Greed can get to the best of us at times, everyone has been greedy a time or two.....or 10 😉
Sow a good seed and you will reap good fruit.
You covered so much in this post and I hope the right people find it and It is enough to get them to step back and evaluate their actions.
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I think that is really problematic and a serious flaw in the Witness voting system. It's basically self-voting, but worse.
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This whole bidbot thing just keeps getting worse and worse. From a false sense of achievement to utilizing them to to increase your witness vote. What a racket!!
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I think this is what happens when there's distrust and impatience with the system. No, it doesn't help that the initial STEEM distribution put nearly all the power in the hands of the few, but is there anything we can do about that? (If there is, I'd love to know).
That doesn't mean, in my mind, that we need to keep compounding the problem, by finding other ways to continue to concentrate the power among the few, be it the same group or another tier.
But people have too high expectations of this place and when it's not happening as quickly as they would like, they either create the workaround, invest in one or use it.
I've entertained the idea of buying votes, but never done it. I thought about building a bot, but have not. I'm contemplated a rallying cry calling for at least 5,000 of us to flood the bidbot market at any given moment just to see what would happen. When we say what would happen if everyone did this or that, it wouldn't take everyone doing it. It would only take a percentage to overwhelm if it was actually going to happen.
I've thought about setting up a witness, too, but I've had enough expensive hobbies over the years. I don't need another. :)
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extremely good points here.
given the low number of active users there seems to be higher number of attempts to slice up the rewards pool before it all vanishes. Perhaps most users think that this life is temporary and hence we need to game the system and make the most of it as soon as possible.
i would agree with you on the witness needing to be above board. otherwise there is no point in voting for them.
it looks curation groups are also not able to slow the spiral of ordinary content being upvoted. the reality in a blockchain is the virtual 51% attack. if more than half of us believe in bidbots then the chain is morally compromised.
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Good post.
Another problem with the bid bots, for users, I explained a while back in my post about Popularity is that bid bot post rewards create a false sense of wealth, actually leading to an addictive wealth depleting spiral. By spending current rewards on promoting posts that will take 7 more days to pay out, none of that money gets to ever be kept. It is always being paid to someone else. People are so dumb, they are using their hard earned (nevermind the inflated bot rewards) curation and author rewards, and giving it away to a greedy, self-serving, enslavement bots.
Anyway, I like the wisdom in this post. Explaining good values, ethics, and morals to people who participate in community deteriorating shortcuts seems like such a waste of breath to me. The only way to stop them seems to be to pass laws and enforce them so they end up behind bars, or pay back what they have unfairly taken to those affected.
By the way: Thank you @trufflebot for leading me to this post. A great topic to read about.
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Facebook's earnings breaks down to $19ish dollars per user, per year. Using the advertising model. Think about that for a moment. There is a vast amount of content on Facebook, from deeply thought-out opinions, well-written articles, to pictures of dinner.
Most people do not pay for content they consume directly. How often would you take even $1 dollar out of your wallet and pay to read someone's article?
I tried your perspective on and what I can't figure out is where does the revenue for a "Pure" content site come from? Are you thinking that stakeholders will just hold and slowly liquidate their own holdings to the best Content Creators? If so, why would they do that?
Is it your opinion that if we had the best darn content that would generate more traffic?
In my mind, this is how it is working right now... We are a site in very early development. We have a supply and demand problem. Investors and Developers are rare, especially those who can code and invest in Crypto. We need to retain our investors and our developers.
I know this is going to burn a little, but something being a hard truth doesn't stop it from being a truth. There are literally Millions of people who create content for free. That equals... Supply. There is not a shortage of people who will create content nor is there a shortage of content.
Don't be angry, just think about it for a minute...
Even with the depressed Crypto Markets and the bidding bots, most people here are completely out earning any other place I can think of to sell content. I admit it is flawed and hard to deal with sometimes, but there is another way to view it. No, we may not be rewarding content perfectly or even really well... However we are rewarding it. Please don't lose site of that! It is bad advice to point out the unfairness with out looking at that side of it also.
In this situation, the speculation on the coin Steem is what is paying for the content. In other words, those who are holding Steem hoping it will pay off at some point that gives a creates the value of our content.
I don't hate money, I don't hate business people and I feel our content pays out really well. Not perfectly based on "Quality", but at a much higher level than any other site I am aware of that pays for content.
Please hear me saying, I know it isn't fair, but if you are reading this are you going to give up being paid at extremely high rates because it isn't fair? If so, you also have to consider what you are earning also isn't "Fair" based on value in the market rates. YOU ARE WINNING.
Don't accept my vision, but please consider it.
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Im in on that.
What we have here can be miraculous for alot of people, or a select few.
I will be advocating for the many.
If the select few are catered to, we wont have the many.
If the many are favored, we wont have the few.
I will place my bet on the many.
I think 10usd from 1m users is more desirable than 100k from 10k.
But im in for the ride, either way.
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No
I don't think this and many other issues can't be solved. Most importantly I don't think it can be solved because those same witnesses are the ones that should solve all issues somehow. And why would they? And they have proven in the past year they won't do anything.
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I am hesitant to say this is a problem that cannot be solved. We just need the right people to realize this is a problem.
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The people who need to accept it is a problem are doing just fine. It is not a problem to them.
I have to agree with crypto-econom1st, if it is a problem at all, it is a problem we will not fix. It needs to get built into the economy.
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Next question is do you think I should play along in the gamefication of Steemit? Which in general terms means I should try to grab as much money as quickly as possible?
For example by using the bid bots in the most profitable way.
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Obviously nobody can make that decision for you. I encouage you to decide. Tjere are many ways to contribute or jave a negative impact. There is no clear line
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I agree with whatsup 😀
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Wanna join and receive free upvotes yourself?
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Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 12 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.
I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 24 SBD worth and should receive 260 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.
I am
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Counterfeit steem.
https://steemit.com/steem-network/@novacadian/where-is-the-trust-in-proof-of-brain-mining
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The steemit ecosystem has too many loopholes that reward self interest and there is very little trickle down if any from larger accounts! The midsize and minnow accounts aren’t seeing much growth to even move up and displace these accounts it’s kind oh an oligopoly at this point and until we can place rules in place that make self interest behavior counter intuitive it’s not going to stop!
It’s a let me make money first and once I’ve had my fill I’ll think of supporting others!
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