Like many of you, I’ve been acquiring PAL, initially from the claimdrop, but then by buying dribs and drabs of it at the Steem-Engine.com site. (I had done a couple of posts with the #palnet tag even before claiming; as a Steem-Engine noob it took me a bit to figure out how to use the site on an iPad.)
Then I decided to live on the bleeding edge and try mining it. I’m now not at all certain that was a good idea.
As I mentioned when first posting about mining, “The Palnet.io “How To” and the Palcoin Whitepaper are both a bit thin explaining mining...”
The Whitepaper says
Proof of Mining 10% of the inflation can be mined. To mine the token purchase and stake PAL Miners (PALM) and PAL MEGA MINERS (PALMM). PALM mines at a rate of 1X, and PALMM mines at a rate of 4X. PALM miners are available in a nearly infinite supply at a cost of 33 steem/miner. PALMM are limited to 10,000 miners and are priced at 100 Steem.
That “nearly infinite” bit is a little strange. While Steem-Engine does indeed say that there are 10,000 PALMM, it says that there are 100,000 PALM.
I took a screenshot of my PALnet wallet before starting to write this post:
Four days ago, I claimed the drop. Three days ago, I started buying some PAL for Steem. Also three days ago, I bought 1 PALM. Then two days ago I claimed my first mining payout of 2 PAL at Steem-Engine.com (Received 2 PAL from tokens). Yesterday, no mining payout. Today (7 minutes ago), another 1 PAL claimed at Steem-Engine.com, so a total of 3 PAL mining payout over a period a period of 3 days. At the time that I bought that 1 PALM, the PAL/Steem ratio was 20:1 meaning I coulda shoulda bought 660 PAL instead.
The 2 hours ago “Received 2 PAL from tokens” is a bit of a mystery.
I’d had my first PALnet payout:
Hey, I tried to tell folks not to upvote it. Two oddities here. For a supposed 50/50 split between authors and curators, I got it all. A consequence of not yet having fractional PAL? Also, why 2 PAL claimable? 1 from the post, but the other can’t be from mining, those get claimed at Steem-Engine rather than in the PALnet wallet. I have no clue where the other one came from.
But my very preliminary data suggests that maybe mining PAL isn’t such a great idea, unless perhaps the price of PAL were to rise significantly. But if that were to happen, many more people would buy PALM and PALMM. The first year’s inflation is only 2.1 million PAL, with 10% of that going to miners. That translates to all of the miners combined divvying up only 575 PAL per day. If even a small fraction of PALM and PALMM gets bought up and staked, miners will be getting tiny PAL payouts.
Granted, I’m basing this all on a small data set, too small to extract useful information from.
Okay, I need to figure out this PALnet thing. Thanks for the info!
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It is a bit weird. Did you use the palnet tag in a post before the airdrop 4 days ago? If not how did you get a payout on a post so soon? I've been watching the PAL projected payouts on my feed go up and down like demented yoyos. At first I thought it must be to do with the value of PAL but sometimes one post increases and the other decreases at the same time, and then it will reverse. I am sure it will all make sense one day...
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The platform was operational before the airdrop and people had bought as well as the stake the mods have was being spread through votes.
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Yes, and had posted from PALnet.io
By the way, this should not be, but a couple of days ago @tarazkp did a post from Busy using the #palnet post that I saw in my Steemit feed but not in my PALnet feed.
Misplaced optimism is a wonderful thing. ;-)
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LOL!
I haven't yet seen any advantage to posting in PALnet. My posts that are published elsewhere (dtube or partiko) with a palnet tag got PAL rewards but the one I posted from PALnet got nothing at all. Also upvotes... is there any point in staking your coins if when you upvote a post it has no impact on PAL rewards? They need to sort that out...
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So many question marks right now. Maybe it does have an impact on PAL rewards that won’t be obvious until fractional PAL is introduced. And why no fractions from the get go?
Also, since pending payouts are only shown in PAL rather than a $ format, is there an equivalent to Steem’s $0.02 dust threshold?
There’s so much we don’t know yet.
Meh, it’s an experiment. We’re in the Petri dish.
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The lack of fractions is an issue. I like to see that my vote has an impact (even if it is 0.0001 of a PAL), otherwise what is the point?
Yes, it is an experiment. But first impressions count. If people don't get on board and behind it in the beginning then it's going to be hard to claw back. There has been so much talk and anticipation about PAL. With the lack of clarity - so many questions that don't seem to have obvious answers - it just seems a bit dodgy.
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I did got a reply on a comment I wrote about Pal.
They will add the decimals soon, they didn’t it was necessary but now understand that they were wrong!
A 1 pal upvote requires a 100% upvote of an account with 1600 to 2000 Pal staked.
I do see it more as a testcase and it is good to see that they are willing to correct the mistakes!
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Okay. Thanks for the info! It was disheartening to vote and not know if it has had any impact at all! We'll see what happens in the next few weeks!
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Same with all new tokens in that cannot change the number of decimal places after creation. Obviously they can, so may require some begging from those of us who also elected to go with zero decimal places! In PAL's case, if they knew it would be used for voting, it does seem odd not to have at least 2 and possibly 4 dec pts.
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Welcome to steem before hf19
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I think I joined about the time of HF19 (June 2017). But my upvote was worthless anyway because I had no steem power!
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At that point I had near 5000 and before the fork, it was worth bugger all.
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It actually appeared in the feed a few hours later. Guessing it was to do with the scotbot having issues or something
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Actually, I've noticed one of my posts disappeared from my palnet blog then reappeared after a couple of times refreshing it.
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Yep, I think it sometimes is struggling to pull them in. It has only been a week so, things take time to develop and bugs worked out.
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Also, as those nearly infinite PALM get bought and staked, the total competition among the pool increases, which decreases any particular miner's reward.
But then the over-arching question is always what is going to happen to the market price of the PAL. It could very well rise enough such that the mining makes more sense.
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I think the price of PAL would have to go very high for that to happen. If we use 100,000 rather than “nearly infinite” 1X PALM and 10,000 4X PALMM, that’s 140,000 “units” available versus only 210,000 mineable PAL the first year. If only 575 “units” are in use, that’s 1 PAL per unit per day. If anything more than 575 “units” are in use, daily payouts would be fractional.
And if the price of PAL were to go crazy high, we’d probably simultaneously be in a situation where Steem was going crazy too, significantly driving up the cost of acquiring PALM or PALMM.
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That makes a lot of sense, which might be unfortunate for a lot of people.
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Thanks for this mate. I have been trying to read up and glean information on mining tokens with little success. As you say, details are a little sparse.
On balance, I think I will try to save up for a token to mine. I am here long term and I hope in some way it will show my commitment to PAL and the belief in the project and the team behind it, there are already scant few ways to show my appreciation.
Thanks again Mr W and have a great day :-)
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Mining is very much a long game and not for casual users. That's my honest opinion on it.
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Count yourself lucky I have had 1 PALM staked for over 3 day's now and not earned anything from it yet I think my miner is broken 😡
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You got a 6.17% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @preparedwombat! :)
@ocdb is a non-profit bidbot for whitelisted Steemians, current max bid is 40 SBD and the equivalent amount in STEEM.
Check our website https://thegoodwhales.io/ for the whitelist, queue and delegation info. Join our Discord channel for more information.
If you like what @ocd does, consider voting for ocd-witness through SteemConnect or on the Steemit Witnesses page. :)
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I am not sure yet if I am going to try the Palm mining!
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I am still adamant about this coin cause most coin come and go without any foreseeable future. Let's hope this is on the contrary.
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I get what you are saying.
I got 3 EM Miners and 1 PALMM Miner. So far I received 24 PAL and 2.3 ENG in about 8 days.
I, too, questioned whether I would have been better off just buying the tokens instead of the miners. So far, the tokens are slowly rolling in so it might end up being beneficial...it will just take a while. Perhaps more details will emerge as these questions are posed.
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Hi @preparedwombat!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 4.643 which ranks you at #1691 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has dropped 4 places in the last three days (old rank 1687).
In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 168 contributions, your post is ranked at #34.
Evaluation of your UA score:
Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server
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Calling it 'mining' is mildly offensive, as it is clearly just a separate type of staking coins for inflation gains.
That being said, I like how it works. It gives investors the opportunity to stake a coin inside of a tipping network but not feel obligated to tip anything.
It's very similar to an idea I had a long time ago:
https://steemit.com/steem/@edicted/fixing-steemit-with-baby-steps-part-1
Instead of giving 15% inflation to stake-holders with Steem Power, I thought that Steem should reallocate that 15% to 'The vault' or simply the current implementation of the bank account (with 3 day withdraw instead of 13 weeks). This way users who were just looking for ROI would have a place to go instead of selling their vote on the bidbots.
These 'miner' coins accomplish the same goal. They separate the tipping network from the investor network. However, I think they need to put a cap on the number of PALM coins that can be bought. Not doing so undermines the value of the mega-miners because the mega-miners will theoretically get drowned out by the regular miners if too many people buy them.
I like the idea that the miner coins could one day skyrocket in value because there are so few of them, allowing a separate liquid market to emerge just for 'mining' (aka staked coins for the sole purpose of ROI). Capping this value at 33 Steem is a bad idea for the long run, but at the same time there is nothing to complain about because the platform just came into existence. They'll figure it out, just don't buy them now :D (they are pegged to 33/100 Steem after all).
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I am stil watching this all unfold. All I did so far was claim the drop. Thanks for the info
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