"Love It Or Leave It!"

in patriotism •  8 years ago 

There are certain types of arguments that are used by people who just don’t want to bother spending time or effort coming up with something substantive or rational to say. They want to spew a few irrelevant words and be done with the conversation. Often they don’t want to have to actually think about whatever someone else said because the cognitive dissonance makes them existentially uncomfortable.

For example, if you mention that something less than ideal—or something profoundly idiotic and/or evil—is happening in the “land of the free” (sic), many flag-waving nationalistic Muricans will insult and malign you for doing so. How dare you be so ungrateful that you would make reference to problems and injustices that exist in THE-GREATEST-COUNTRY-IN-THE-HISTORY-OF-THE-UNIVERSE (froth, froth, froth)?!?!? Thankfully, the even more idiotic and demented line, “My country, right or wrong!” has gone out of vogue. But “love it or leave it” is only slightly less moronic. Consider how bizarre the “argument” would seem in any other context.

A: “Cool house, dude, but I think you have carpenter ants.”
B: “If you’re gonna criticize my house, get out!”
A: “What? I just meant you might want to do something about that.”
B: “I love this house! It’s the best house ever!”
A: “Wouldn’t it be better without ants destroying it?”
B: “It may not be perfect, but this is the greatest house ever built!”
A: “Look, right there. You can see where the ants are going in.”
B: “I don’t deny that it’s infested.”
A: “So why did you freak out at me?”
B: “Because you’re still a bad person, and my enemy, for pointing it out.”
A: “Dude, chill. It’s a cool house. But it would be better without the ants.”
B: “Show me any house that has fewer ants than mine!”
A: “There are some, but that’s not my point. I’m just suggesting that…”
B: “I’m offended! Take it back, or we have nothing more to say!”
A: “Even if I take it back, you would still have bugs eating your house.”
B: “Mentioning my ants makes you a communist! And a terrorist!”
A: “You have issues, dude.”
B: “Love it or leave it!”
A: “I guess I shouldn’t mention that huge crack in the foundation either.”

Yes, it’s an exaggeration (slightly), but this is the sort of silliness that nationalism and patriotism creates. When people point out the rampant corruption and power-happy psychosis of those in power; when people lament various atrocities committed in the name of “America”; when people criticize the systematic destruction of individual freedom and property rights by agents of the state, there are still some who genuinely get offended, as if it’s a personal affront to them that you noticed something bad happening anywhere inside the invisible line which defines “the United States of America.”

Since when does loving something mean you should go out of your way to not notice, and not do anything about, any problems you see? If you loved your house, wouldn’t you want to know if it had an ant infestation? In fact, wouldn’t you want to be FIRST to notice such problems, and to do whatever you can to fix them?

As one example, when Wikileaks released the video showing U.S. soldiers in a helicopter murdering a group of film-makers, many Americans zealously condemned the ones who leaked the information, instead of condemning the murderers. To them, pointing out “the troops” behaving like sadistic, homicidal monsters was somehow blasphemy. Apparently you should believe that when terrorism, torture and murder are committed by people wearing uniforms with American flags on them, not only is that acceptable, but condemning them for it is cowardly and traitorous. If you don’t at all times express unconditional love and support for absolutely anything that is done in the name of “America,” then apparently you’re a despicable creep who should go live in Somalia.

And the “leave it” part is especially idiotic. If I point out some seriously deranged stuff going on in the U.S., why exactly does that mean that I should leave? And if I do leave, am I then allowed to point out those evils? Is it somehow better to point out the carpenter ants while standing on the other side of the street? Obviously not. Flag-waving Muricans are even less receptive to criticism when it comes from people in other countries. So “Leave it!” is really just code for, “Shut up!”

“Love it or leave it!” roughly translates to, “If you notice something horribly wrong, keep it to yourself!” This coming from people who imagine themselves to be free. This is the sort of crap that Muricans expect from the people of North Korea, for example—the people are too brain-washed and/or scared to point out the horrendous problems and injustices going on there—but they never notice that the people here do the same damn thing.

And if nationalism and loving your country is so great, what do all those Muricans think the people of North Korea should do? Is it noble and virtuous for them to loudly condemn the misdeeds of their ruling class, but nasty and ungrateful for the people here to criticize the American ruling class? As some regime gets worse and worse, where is the magic line where it suddenly stops being treasonous and shameful to complain, and starts being brave and righteous?

Maybe the rule is that as long as things are even worse somewhere else, pointing out problems in your own back yard is bad. Then again, that would mean that dissent and discontent should only happen in one country at a time—whichever is the very worst place on the planet.

There’s a reason I refer to the mentality of many Americans as “battered citizenry syndrome” (similar to “battered spouse syndrome”). Even when they know that the politicians are all crooks, that “government” is inefficient, corrupt, destructive, and maybe even downright evil, they still have emotional tantrums at the idea of life without it. “I know it abuses us, but I think deep down it cares about us! Besides, how would we survive without it? And it promised to be better from now on! And it protects us and provides for us. And if it abuses us, maybe its our own fault.”

So when someone points out any one of the myriad of things that are profoundly screwed up about the U.S. of A., don’t imagine that saying “Love it or leave it!” makes you brave, tough, cool or smart. It doesn’t. It makes you the politicians’ pathetic little bitch, who will continue to make excuses for how great “our” rulers are, even while they abuse the hell out of you day after day, year after year. Grow a spine. Rent some dignity. Stop professing your blind loyalty and obedience to the damn politicians. They are not—and never have been—your servants, your protectors, or your representatives. Whether you love the place, hate the place, or something in between, if your blind nationalism makes it so that you can't recognize and condemn people who are parasites and thieves, crooks and murderers, then you are part of the problem.

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I like that you are pointing out a major issue in my opinion. Tolerance can be a strong way to show love for people but there is a balance. I believe the 'leavie it' ideology has opposed the great movements of history (Ghandi, MLK Jr) and unfortunately is so strong right now that there has been no one to take up that mantle.
You are doing good work and I'm excited for Mirror.

Yeh, but the US won the Olympics, so clearly your argument is invalid! But seriously, society operates like a cult, and nationalism/patriotism is just one of the behaviours used to keep the cult members inline. I get your point, I agree with your point, but its so frustrating trying to reason with the zombies.

The problem is I'm not a zombie. I'm pro society, pro government. This doesn't mean I don't think our government cannot be improved, but it does mean I'd like to improve the system from the inside, rather than burn it down and start from scratch. Look at the middle east. Its midevil over their. In Afganistan, for example, local warlords hold power through the control of local malitia's, rather than the state having a monopoly of violence, violence over their has become free market. While some of the reason this happened is due to American foreign policy, most of the reason is that the entire local population let their society become a shitpile. If a country sucks or is great,that's because of the people living their. If a neighborhood is violent, the people in that neighborhood are mostly responsible for that violence. The people of Sweeden are responsible for sweedens success, as the people of NorthKorea are responsible for living under a supreme leader. They could launch a rebellion at any time, they CHOOSE not to.

I don't know that I called you a zombie. First of all it was meant as a figure of speech, not an insult. But specifically, I was referring to those that use the reference referred to by Larken.

As for your comment that people could rebel at any time but they choose not to, there are many reasons for that, not something that could be explained in a brief comment, but in a nutshell, it's due to Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance.

Who has been funding, arming and protecting the Taliban since 1983? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

We funded the Talaban because at the time we were in the cold war with the Russians. In my initial reply I said we make mistakes, etc. Afganistan was a pon on our chessboard in our game with the Russians. They invaded so we funded the resistance.

The problem is I'm not a zombie. I'm pro society, pro government. This doesn't mean I don't think our government cannot be improved, but it does mean I'd like to improve the system from the inside, rather than burn it down and start from scratch. Look at the middle east. Its midevil over their. In Afganistan, for example, local warlords hold power through the control of local malitia's, rather than the state having a monopoly of violence, violence over their has become free market. While some of the reason this happened is due to American foreign policy, most of the reason is that the entire local population let their society become a shitpile. If a country sucks or is great,that's because of the people living their. If a neighborhood is violent, the people in that neighborhood are mostly responsible for that violence. The people of Sweeden are responsible for sweedens success, as the people of NorthKorea are responsible for living under a supreme leader. They could launch a rebellion at any time, they CHOOSE not to.

You repeated yourself. Nothing more for me to add.

I think there is missing context to your example argument. Which is usually they know or believe they know your ideology. This belief leads to their irrational reaction to your criticism, which they likely see as your attempt at promoting your ideology. So they are not responding to what you are saying rather they are responding to some perceived higher goal.

But ultimately they are being programmed to respond that way. For example, they are shown, on TV or in an article, some anecdote that only gun nuts care about gun rights and they are presented as being people who care more about their toys and hobby over the slaughter of innocent people and safety of society, and trying to have a rational dialog with someone programmed like this is impossible, because the mere fact you are on the other side of the dialog they already think you are a gun nut trying to rationalize your hobby, not someone who thinks we are safer with guns than without.

You are quite right that it's more complicated than it seems at first. Larken has been an anarchist for 20 years, so he is deep into the philosophy, and he got that way by arguing with people until he couldn't rationalise his positions anymore. But people reach a new way of thinking in various ways. For some it happens when they learn about the hundreds of false flag attacks perpetrated by governments on their own people and labelled as terrorism, which breaks some of that blind trust. Some join the military, go to war and then experience profound empathy for the people they have to kill, who turn out to be just like them, with hopes and dreams, families and beliefs. Some, like me, spend a long time hating the idea of a government, especially as corrupt and inefficient as the one we have here in South Africa, but there seems to be no alternative, or rather we never had a chance to think outside the paradigm.

I started labeling myself an anarchist after watching Larken's video The Super Market, where he describes his time in prison and how a free market exists inside every prison where there is trade, currency and even charity and, despite constant surveillance, no privacy and strict rules expressly forbidding all those things. So if "criminals" can create a thriving and relatively efficient economy in the worst and most impossible conditions, why do we believe we can't do it in a free world? And that got me learning about free market roads, unschooling, alternative systems of health care, private security models, urban farming and lots of other things until I felt way more comfortable with the idea. So everyone has their own unique path they follow to be able to read any of Larken's stuff without freaking out and going back into "zombie mode."

I think the key in these arguments is always to make people feel as safe as you can. When you reassure them that you respect everyone's views, but that you feel yours promote more peace, more prosperity and more ingenuity and you are actually quite excited about all the SOLUTIONS to our problems that governments don't make room for, they are more likely to listen and less likely to go full zombie on you.

By the way I don't use "zombie" in a derogatory way, I was one, in some areas I am probably still one although I don't know it yet, and I love how you never actually reach the bottom of the rabbit hole, once you think you know everything, the ground opens up under your feet and new truths appear. Brainwashing is not under our conscious control. It takes a miraculous series of interventions to start breaking the programming, and deprogramming is not fun.

I think there’s some legitimacy to "Love It Or Leave It!": using the ant analogy, if you have to get your house fumigated wouldn’t you rather be outside while they do it?
Not to mention it’s also a question of “If you love your liberty you should leave” or even “If you love living…”. I’m very concerned about people who talk like you do whilst living in the belly of the beast. Of course, the beast does have a long reach but I’d rather have enough distance between us that the beast couldn’t be bothered to stretch.

As I've said before, the day I DON'T dare to publicly say what I think, here in the U.S.S.A., is the day I get really nasty.

I voted your sooner articles up, going backward, until I couldn't vote your stuff up.
I find that I also can't vote your comment up.
Not enough steem :P

It's taken me 24 hours to realise this but basically (to stretch the metaphor) you want to be the guy in the HAZMAT suit doing the fumigating.

Do you imagine there is anyone anywhere that the killers, thieves and liars can't reach?

I really don't, but I wouldn't want to make it easy for them.

because the cognitive dissonance makes them existentially uncomfortable.

I'm beginning to realize just how many conversations filled with negative emotion are because of this dissonance. Religion, politics, parenting: people have trouble talking about these topics because they can't deal with their own contradictions on them. Maybe when you finish up The Mirror on government, we could start building versions for other topics also. :)

To them, pointing out “the troops” behaving like sadistic, homicidal monsters was somehow blasphemy.

Maybe the rule is that as long as things are even worse somewhere else, pointing out problems in your own back yard is bad.

As always, very well said.

The "move to North Korea" image is classic. :)

Thanks again for all you do to open minds, Larken. I love seeing your content illustrated with imagery and a nice big $ reward to go with it.

Voting. :)

My husband said something interesting the other day, on that list is also "diet" lol. Ever had a debate with someone about what to eat or not eat to lose weight?? It's SO weird!! :)

Great post man. I found a great video on YouTube for anybody who wants to learn more about the whole "if you don't like it, you could just leave" argument.

I've said this time and time again, but the core of the problem lies in education. Since a very early age, we are taught what and how to think. We're indoctrinated with totally false ideas, facts, history and ideologies. It's extremely difficult to change the mind of someone whose life and personality are molded around a specific set of beliefs.

As long as the government has a monopoly on education, nothing will change. American politico-pop culture will continue to dictate the views and opinions of the public and the most admirable achievement will always be one of material gain.

When a strategy is devised to pull the power of education from government, then people can be taught compassion, fairness, and respect. Our minds are very powerful and beautiful - we can progress radically and rapidy as a species once the majority learn how to think and problem solve.

Thanks for a great article.

Yeah, but why do you hate roadz?

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel - Samuel Johnson
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is only difficult for others. It is the same with ignorance.

No, it's pretty easy to be ignorant and also be aware that you're ignorant. Especially since everyone is ignorant about something. But if you know an answer, even if the answer is wrong, you're not usually inclined to question it.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

It gets me the most when people tell me, "If you don't like it here, then why don't you leave??" I mean.. I was born here, not by choice, and leaving will cost me a substantial amount that I am not able to attain. On top of that, why should I leave the place I was conceived and born? I didn't ask to be here, but I am, so why am I being forced to live under circumstances I didn't even ask for to begin with? Just ridiculous to believe that because I'm born in this location that I should be required to live my life by some other piece of shit's rules..

I don't aim to cause violence or negatively impact other people's lives and that should be enough. Simple as that.

Haha, really agree with you. Although I am even agree to make constructive criticism and at the same time propose a solution and plan to implement that solution. It is the healthiest way to achieve change and not just to see you as a person with many complaints.

As Patches O'Houlihan would say "You gotta get angy, you gotta get mean!"
Or as Gerald Celente would say "Guns, gold and a getaway plan"

We are a nation of socialist feeding sheep parasites. I swear to God if aliens came to attack us all they would have to do is provide us massive TV's in the sky playing football and David Letterman whilst they harvested us without a fight.

There are a lot of good hearted, well meaning people in the US that I think are in denial. They've had patriotism shoved down their throat for years and don't know how to see any different. Great article!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I agree 100%. Although, if everyone left the US, there would be no taxpayers ...

A counterpoint to your post is that there are many rants about the current "state" of society. But very few recommend a viable solution.

I was really impressed with the following post by @ftlian. He is attempting to make change. (https://steemit.com/all/@ftlian/cowardly-nh-democratic-governor-candidates-refuse-to-debate-dextraze-and-freeman-media-blackout).

if everyone left the US, there sould be no taxpayers ...
And thus God invented FATCA! Now they don't care if you leave - they still get you!

Excellent point ...

I just watched Michael Moore's new documentary "Where to Invade Next" it was very good at enlightening the audience to exactly what Americans are missing in their myopic, and MSM trusting world views. It is currently playing on some Netflix systems.

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. ~ Albert Einstein.

Great post! Essentially you describe the mafiosi mentality of some patriots or religious fanatics (not only American ones!)

Getting rid of the infestation is work. Murica is too busy with slurpees and Netflix to bother with work.

YES!!! Love the ant analogy and "battered citizenry syndrome." Perfect. Nailed it again <3

you got to know when to hold em, know when to run - kenny rodgers
I admire you @larkenrose staying there especially when you are always going to be a political target, but I also cant share enough with people how nice it is to get years off your own plantation, realise we are all earthlings, no governments problems are our own,... hopefully gaining reciprocation for our social media efforts in ventures like steemit will help a lot of people get more mobile, so many are tied to jobs and localities, to have money coming in from work we do wherever we are is going to change all things completely...

"Know when to hold 'em, ... fold 'em, ... walk away, ... run."

If I am honest in some cases I just don't even bother. It may be complete doom and gloom but I have come to realize that some individuals will just not be reached. I employ a method of gauging they're response. Depending on the volitatility or friction I curtail or expand the argument. If the programming is too concrete I move on and hope that maybe the next guy can chip a little more away.

It's not only the USA 'patriots', who behave like this. In Germany they shout "Wer Deutschland nicht liebt, soll Deutschland verlassen" (Who doesn't love Germany, should leave Germany). I'd love to, but where can you go nowadays...!?

I think "leaving" is just what we should do. We should all secede. First from the Federal Gov., then the States, and then the Counties. I can then easily move to another city if I don't like what's going on where I am.

This reminds of the song U.S.A by Dubioza Kolektiv. So many people out here are trying to get into the States, they see that American Dream 'freedom' branding and go 'yeah, that's what I want' then they realise everywhere has its problems. I'm sure that immigrants who complain are told to 'go back' if they don't like.

It's pretty difficult for immigrants to get into the US legally, but some Americans speak like it's so easy to just up and leave your country on a whim 'if you don't like it, leave'.. Maybe it is easier if you have an American passport.

OMG, larkenrose, if I had a Bitcoin for every time people have said this to me about the situation here in the UK...! I'm always pretty clear about the fact that I love it with every cell in my being, and I'm not sure how me leaving the land of my birth would help it to rid itself of the problems I'm identifying as crippling and destroying it, but I guess that's not their point, is it? As you say, it's really just a code phrase for "STFU!", in order to enable the continuation of the speaker's cognitive dissonance. Well, I have sad news for those pussies: I ain't going anywhere, mofos - I'm staying right here, and sorting this shit out, OK? ;o) Steem on, larken, Steem on!

You just wrote this cause you hate Murica! Get out! Just kidding, you are absolutely right, but, today it's more like telling your neighbor his house is on fire and he calls a SWAT team on you. People are conditioned to think this way about thier children as well. If you tell someone thier kid has a problem, any problem, you may lose that person from your life. It is like they walk around with blinders on. I do love America, I do love my children, but, tell me they have a problem and I will investigate it before I tell you to go away. I don't know what causes that mindset. My mother is afflicted with it and many people I have talked to are the same way. It is a serious mental problem in my opinion. Thanks for the post.

I think many of us here have been in exactly these type of situations. I often ask them "Where do you expect me to go?" "Will they let me go there?" "Which thief is going to steal my house?" "I guess it doesn't matter I lived in my neighborhood first." :)

How easy is it simply for someone to leave a prison because they disagree?

Larken always tell it how it is and I love him for it!

USA logic = America invades and murdered MILLIONS of people in Iraq and Afghanistan but they call "Muslims bad"

Love it or leave it only holds up meddaforicly. Imo it shouldn't meanyou can't point out problems and suggest solutions, I become angry on patriotic grounds when someone is giving me a narrative of how we're living in a smoldering dumpster fire while at the same time benifiting from living in our system. Anarchists, for example, who thi.k we need to abolish all government are at perfect liberty to say that here, they would not be at perfect liberty to say that in Mexico, or NorthKorea. Imo we live in the greatest country in the world, this does not mean we live in a perfect country. I'm a conservative in the sense that I favor careful changes to make society better. If we were going to raise taxes, I'd prefer we do it slowly, over ten years, rather than rapidly all at once. Similarly, if we were going to overhall our education system, I'd like to see it tried in a few states first.

Utter rampant stupidity.

I don't understand why people who hate the United States continue to live there. I hate Saudi Arabia. I have no desire to ever live there because I'm an independent woman who would like to live her own life as she sees fit. Can't do that in Saudi Arabia.

Can someone explain something to me. Why is it okay for Mexicans to love Mexico, even as they live here in the US (often illegally) but it's not okay for Americans to love their own country? Are you honestly going to argue that Mexico is better than the US?

Well written, and reaffirms my decision not to vote in the recent local elections in South Africa.
Thank you @larkenrose for keeping it simple. Helps people like me spread the word easier by learning from example, and helps spread the word, especially when it comes from you!
Keep it up

I felt the same! I went with my husband to the voting station, he wanted to vote to at least try and get us a better municipality, ours is bankrupt and so corrupt it's just disgusting (as most municipalities in North West and Free State are.) I had the same idea, but when we got there I just couldn't do it.

Dont like this playground? Find another one, mine, because I said so.
Dont like this country? Move to somalia.
Don't like freedom? Move to Somalia.
Don't like theft? Move to Somalia.

Don't like my plantation? Ask master to leave (be traded)

Victim blaming 101

Take it easy with those commie slanders, we ain't all violent.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-there-is-no-communism-in-russia

I left it, never been happier.