Patriotism, an Abomination

in patriotism •  7 years ago  (edited)

The ultimate travesty that comes from the belief in political “authority” is not that it helps evil people to commit evil (which it does), but that it dupes well-intentioned, decent human beings into accepting, condoning, or even committing evil themselves, without even noticing that they are doing so. That is one of the main reasons why I find July 4th to be so discouraging and depressing.

Every July 4th many millions of Americans, in one way or another, partake in the loud, ostentatious spectacle of celebrating “Independence Day,” having parades and picnics, waving flags and watching fireworks, in order to commemorate and honor … what, exactly? Some people who, over two centuries ago, didn’t want to pay taxes on tea and paper? Or something about “taxation without representation”? Well, whatever it was, it definitely had something to do with being for freedom and against tyranny. Somehow.

And that’s about as precise as most Americans' thoughts about “Independence Day” are. Indeed, the day is less about thoughts and more about feelings: feelings of camaraderie, or loyalty, maybe some rebellion, definitely a heavy dose of patriotism, and some general notion that we should be thankful for the “service” of some people who “fought for our freedoms,” or something like that. Never mind the specifics, just feel good, swell with pride when you hear nationalistic songs, and then proudly recite your oath of loyalty (written by a national socialist), swearing fealty to your political masters.

Wait, what? How exactly does “celebrating freedom” equate to swearing allegiance to a republic (which is a form of “government,” or ruling class)? Well, it doesn’t. And, for those who dare to look, this is where the true, diabolical nature of “patriotism” starts to rear its ugly head.

Once upon a time—a few short generations ago—nationalism and patriotism were openly war-like, an overt expression of pack-mentality and a sense of superiority. The basic tone was something like, “We rule and you suck, so we’re gonna kill you and take your stuff.” One empire after another has violently conquered vast territories driven by that evil, but at least honest, outlook. The agenda of those in power hasn’t changed much since then, but because most people today don’t think that killing his neighbor and stealing his stuff is okay—even if the guy looks, sounds, or thinks a bit differently—the propaganda and spin used by those in power is now a lot different, in order to deceive decent, peaceful people into supporting authoritarian agendas.

And patriotism is among the most powerful tools of the tyrants. Through prolonged exposure to feel-good nationalistic propaganda, the average American now has, inside his head, a jumble of unrelated, even contradictory concepts all muddled together into one indecipherable mess. The average person will proudly proclaim that he loves his country, and will express that love by displaying the American flag. To him, the symbol vaguely represents some combination of freedom, and goodness, and everything that is familiar and comfortable to him—parades and fireworks and hot dogs and beer and apple pie.

And then, with those positive feelings in his heart, he will proudly recite something which is the precise opposite of freedom and independence: “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands.” In short, all the feel-good, emotionalistic jingoism is there to make him enjoy swearing loyalty to a ruling class. That is what it means to giving an oath of allegiance to a republic. And every July 4th, many millions of Americans miss the drastic irony of celebrating an act of illegal, treasonous rebellion against the state (i.e., the signing of the Declaration of Independence) by swearing fealty to a ruling class.

And that was by design. People have been intentionally conditioned and trained to confuse the concepts of freedom, and “country,” and independence, and “patriotism,” and one’s home and his neighbors, the things he loves, and the “government” that exploits and controls him. In short, “patriotism” is used by tyrants to exploit people’s devotion to the good things they love and cherish, and twist it into an emotional attachment to a political entity—a ruling class—which is in every way the arch enemy of those good things (freedom, peace, justice, etc.).

That is why the sight of American flags everywhere, frankly, sickens me now. Of course, the people who display those flags aren’t trying to condone oppression, imperialism and slavery. They mean well, and they imagine that they are cheering for liberty and goodness. But the symbol they are using literally represents a parasitical authoritarian monstrosity (ironically, one far worse than what the people here in 1776 were declaring independence from). If you want to know what public displays of nationalism look like to me, then look at some pictures of little German children waving the Nazi flag.

To a small child in the United States, the American flag means happy celebrations; it means his friends, his family, his home, his country (whatever a “country” is). But to a small child in the Middle East, that same flag can mean armed invaders, terror and death.

So which does it “really” mean? Well, you aren’t really supposed to ponder that, especially when everyone around you is feeling so good (and thinking so little) while waving “Old Glory” around. But to try to pretend that it still represents freedom, while that same flag flies in front of IRS, ATF and DEA offices, while that same flag adorns the soldiers and war machines committing terrorism, torture and murder around the world, is the result of willful blindness. Loyalty to freedom and loyalty to one’s “country” (a political entity) have always been, and will always be, incompatible. The American Revolution, at least in the minds of most of those who fought it, may have been about freedom, but the creation of a new ruling class (by way of the Constitution) was not, no matter how hard the statist propagandists pretend otherwise. In fact, that is the real abomination of “Independence Day”: watching power-happy crooks continue to hijack people’s love of freedom, and twist and mangle it into loyalty to a ruling class, when the two are exact and precise opposites.

When people are happily celebrating, feeling positive, empowered and hopeful, part of me doesn’t want to upset them by pointing out the hypocrisy, insanity, and downright evil that they are indirectly and inadvertently advancing. I don’t particularly want to offend all the military veterans by pointing out that, while they are being showered with praise today, all they actually did was to act as both pawns and victims of the politicians’ war machine. They never “fought for our freedoms.” Yes, I want people to enjoy life, and be happy, and have hope for the future. But I also want them to understand that subservience and loyalty to imaginary political “authorities” is not the road that leads there. Ever.

That is why the modern-day spectacle of “Independence Day,” where millions of Americans display their profound misunderstanding and confusion by giving lip service to “liberty and justice for all,” while proudly flying the flag of their captors and oppressors, is just depressing to me.

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

If you have nothing to be proud about or you are too weak to work towards something worthy then well, yes national pride might be something for you.

I believe that 99% of the time, those "fighting for our freedom" (in the US) aren't fighting for the continued existence of their people. It's pretty much common knowledge that they are bribed into fighting for the one percent after being backed into a socioeconomic corner. In that case, I agree that they are deluded into national pride.

That being said, there are plenty of nations, or peoples, who are proud of their modern achievements in the fight for the preservation of their identity. If a people becomes apathetic and divests from their tradition and heritage, it will be taken from them. For example, the US government has perpetuated cultural genocide on American Indians, but they keep fighting for their traditions. They are quite the opposite of weak or unaccomplished. They continue to fight and pass down tradition in spite of being massacred and starved. I would be very proud if I was a part of such a nation.

But ethnic groups and nations have achieved the preservation of their traditions, their values, and their livelihood. Nothing wrong with being proud of your forefathers who fought for your people's right to exist.

Carlin's quote makes sense in the US, where the American people have been reduced to a homogenous mass of individuals. We are exactly where the State wants us: helpless. At best, one belongs to a nuclear family unit, the church, school, or sports team. That is the extent of any real communal pride most of us feel.

My issue is this: patriotism/nationalism, being a fan of a particular football club, etc...it's a form of psychological investment.

It is natural for us to invest ourselves into an idea. What a thousand people marching, waving American flags, have in common is not love of the country that they live in, but an investment in an idea of love for the country. The thing I observe frequently is that the majority of people heavily invested in things outside of themselves (God, country, football club) are those who find little or no deep meaning or emotional investment in ideas closer to home - no deep love for their work, no meaningful connections with others and a sense of powerlessness (which is compensated through feeling part of the group).

My hope is that people can find ideas to invest their energy in a little bit closer to home.

A quirky example: To preserve a nature park, you don't need to love it because it's an American park - you can love it because it is beautiful and special.

I agree @anarchospace the national pride that we are told to feel on July 4 is more of a covert mobilization effort to keep the imperial machine alive. But I wasn't talking about Americans.

I was responding to your Carlin quote, "why...be proud of any [nationality/ethinicity]?"

My point is that if one doesn't take pride in their heritage and tradition, then it will be taken from them. Those who still fight to preserve what's left of their traditional culture do indeed have very much to celebrate. It's not just some birth trait. People fight and die to this day for the self determination of their people.

Most Americans have no idea what it means to truly fight for their traditional heritage, unless you consider metropolitan consumer culture to be a tradition.

I used Americans as an example, but I was speaking in general. I have many friends in the Balkans and I can tell you that patriotism/nationalism is not a very useful thing for people there. It allows them to be manipulated and leads to loss of sovereignty, not to its strenghtening.

The most powerful advocates for sovereignty in Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia that I know are libertarians and conservatives who very much feel like citizens of the world, but love their homes, their languages. They may even be patriotic, but that in itself is not their strength, while it can potentially be a weakness.

It is their principles and love of freedom, and respect for their fellow man that keeps their traditions and values strong.

Forgive my ignorance, but does love of freedom/ respect for one's fellow man negate nationalism? People like to live near those who share their values and traditions. It makes for good society and economy. I believe different groups can respect each other while maintaining boundaries.

Carlin really put is best...

Now Carlin would have drained the swamp, RIP.

Reading this is feels like people have a chance to not kill each over in nuclear war.

So would you agree that patriotism is glorufied form of nationalism?

That's where we're headed unfortunately. I just hope it isn't a nuclear one, but it probably will be. Continue to prepare for the worst but hope for the best. All the blind nationalists though don't give a warm and fuzzy feeling...

@larkenrose
This article rules, babe (or doesn't, because you don't want to rule anyone :P)!

Yeah, it's hard for me to see people waving a flag around and ignorantly saying things like "this is greatest country on earth"?

Huh? Do you know what those words even mean? Do you know what a country even is? What the governments of most countries spend their time doing? What thousands of this country's own veterans have suffered because they found out what they were REALLY following orders for (pure evil)?

Yeah, I was once the average american clueless kid, but I grew the hell up. I think anyone who is using their brain should at least, by now, have some clue that 1. government isn't interested in our freedoms, and 2. The U.S. government is an out-of-control war machine built by psychopaths.

Patriotism isn't love for a country's government. It's love for the country. You can hate the government and love your country at the same time.

Agreed...

The 4th of July: Another mythical holyday the servants to the matrix use as an excuse to get drunk, eat dead animals, and praise the lord that they live in " the land of the fee and the home of the slave."

Larken, Your book "The Most Dangerous Superstition" has adorned my bookshelf for years. Your book helped to "awaken" my husband. That book is a must-read for anyone wanting to see through the illusion in order to get on the other side so that we can free this planet. Thank you.

Long live patriotism!!

I find such ignorance astonishing.

Perhaps the miracle of the American Revolution means nothing to you. Perhaps you despise the freedoms of speech, worship, property, and self defense. Perhaps these things are cheap to one such as yourself.

But to anyone with even a cursory understanding of history, the fact that these things are found anywhere on Earth is nothing short of heart-stopping. I am forever humbled by the sacrifices of men and women who gambled everything to create a truly free country. The people you describe as simply being unhappy about their taxes are people whose boots you are not worthy to lick.

When people celebrate the 4th of July, they honor not only our brilliant founders, not only our men and women in uniform, but the communities where they live. Our farmers, our bus drivers, our school teachers, our neighbors and friends. It's an opportunity to give thanks for all the people who make up our nation (for surely, a nation is nothing more or less than the people who live there).

And I understand that you're trying to be iconoclastic. You want to be the edgy, "cool" kid who doesn't salute the flag. Let me tell you something: that flag will still be inspiring poets, philosophers, and humanitarians when you are nothing but a box of dirt in the ground.

And I understand you will take issue with my posting here. To which I say, do whatever you want to me, but don't presume to think you're righteous enough to judge my country.

Agreed.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

...honestly sounds like repeated rhetoric. Like many arguments the more you insist on repeating the more some will believe.
However, the genetic mishap of being born into a nation does have consequences. We all inherit our parent's unresolved psychological issues AND the collective conscience of the society (Nation) we are born into.
Germans perhaps still struggle with their recent history, the Israelis too. The Brits are delusionally clinging on to memories of their colonial past (but perhaps the tide is changing). Americans might feel proud of their role in 20th century history.
The rest about forefathers and taxes are like details in a story book. Do the Italians celebrate Garibaldi as a unifier of the Italian nation? Not really. Nobody really cares.

By the way, before proclaiming how great "freedom of speech" in the U.S. is, make sure you're not talking to someone who was CAGED for a year by the ruling class you swear loyalty to, for the sin of SAYING THINGS the feds didn't want said.

Before the Nazi flag was waved, the German flag had to be ousted, and books burned. Be careful what you wish for! The flag you burn today could be replaced by the equivalent of a swastika. Then, with G-d's help I would be a Bonhoeffer. Let's hope it never comes to that!

You are nothing.

Translation: "You upset me with your facts. I can't refute them or explain their relevance because I am overwhelmed by emotion."

Here's a fact: American patriots destroyed Nazism, liberated the prisoners of concentration camps, and freed Europe from totalitarian rule.

If you can still call patriotism an "abomination" after that, then my assessment is true: you are nothing. Go cry to someone else, gnat.

Here is a fact: Nazi Germany was largely funded and supported by American businessmen and bankers. Otherwise, there would have been no WW2

Your tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory is noted.

Absolutely correct and my fellow country men/women still believe this crap that Germany started 2 world wars where in fact the globalist cabal had their money and fingers in both of them. The winners always dictate the history narrative and this is a very persistent one.

He's an apostate from your religion, which is why you can't just click on something else and go about your day.

Your hallucination is noted.

Truly Free you are not.

THANK YOU!!!! As a PROUD Marine Corps wife, I was disgusted at this person's post. When that person said that our Flag means horrible things to children in foreign countries, that just goes to show how truly uneducated the author of that post REALLY is. It's people like that who believe everything mainstream media puts out there, when in reality they NEVER ONCE report about all the great things our men and women in uniform have done and continue to do. They NEVER report how greatful the people of those foreign countries are to have our military's support and defense from true terrorists. It's because of our four fathers and those who serve today that idiots like that use and abuse not only their freedom of speech, but take all their freedoms for granted. I usually remind people who have such reservations about their country, they are free to leave any time. If they're not happy with where they're at, they can pack their $h!+ and find somewhere else to call home. I could go on and on about all the uneducated statements in the previous post, but I'll close with this. I try not to be too political on my page, I try to keep things fun and lite, but your comment deserves a huge thank you! Hope you check out my page and know that because of your response to this ridiculous post, I've decided to follow your page. HAPPY 4th OF JULY MY FELLOW AMERICAN!
~Dive Diva

Most Decorated Marine, two time Medal of Honor, General Smedly Butler would disagree. Many Infantry would also.

And much more dead innocent citizens would disagree too.

Guess why overseas terrorism was born?

Such ignorance. Do you know why the Marines were created? Do you know where the term "Leather-neck" came from? The Marines were formed to protect trade ships from Muslim nations that captured the ships and demanded ransom for them. At first we paid, but the ransom that they were demanding grew higher, and so we formed the marines. The term "Leather-neck" comes from the thick strip of leather that the marines wore around their necks to prevent their heads from being cut off by these barbaric TERRORIST.

Don't pretend to know shit about history. You don't. The west did not create terrorism. How fucking stupid do you need to be in order to blame the west for a Shiite Muslim strapping on a suicide vest and killing 300 Sunni Muslims? They kill each-other more than anyone else, so take your stupid ass ignorant "The west has created terrorism and the world would be peaceful if not for us" mentality and shove it up your ass.

First of all Thank you for civilized reply friend.

I didn't imply that the west created terrorism in anyway or another but for every action there's a reaction simple maths in basic human natures (and in which I don't support) I hate terrorism and the fact that the media has gotten through times and times again of repeating nonsense that terrorism is just an act done by radical Muslims gets on my nerves so much. Terrorism nowadays has this single stupid look of a bearded guy and bombs strapped around his waist. But what really is terrorism? If you check the dictionary or even Google the term this is what you'll get "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." That term only is enough to think about it just take a deep breath, get over the hate and anger planted and forced down upon you by dictators and regimes who's only concern is to spread hate and war between human beings for their own well being.

PS I'm a practicing Muslim with the number 1 terrorist name and what you stated about Marines and Muslim nations is just hoax.
As for Shiite and Sunni well it's been a while since any terror acts happened between them

Peace, love and Freedom

Ahmed

"how greatful the people of those foreign countries are to have our military's support and defense from true terrorists" wtf?

You really should rethink the reasons for your husband being in a foreign nation. None of what he did was in defense of America.

Why don't you travel to Syria and Iraq and say hello to all the war victims that great US has brought "democracy" to. I am sure they appreciate this kind of generous help to completely destroy their countries because a self-proclaimed hegemony wants to destabilize an entire region and thanks to that we are now welcoming millions of refugees in Europe. Thank you US army, navy etc. Keep up the "great work" of destroying this planet with lies, deceit and murder under the disguise of "democracy" where have you ever brought democracy to?????????????

America isn't the only country out there that's free and has to go out killing people for reasons the corrupt media tells u. I mean i dont see Canada going off and bombing places, and you can have freedom without a central intelligence agency monitoring everything u do, say, go, etc.

there's no reason great people shouldn't be celebrated, soldiers, workers, etc. but America is no longer of the people, by the people, or for the people. It's controlled and manipulated by very rich people, like the Clintons, like trump, like Rupert Murdoch the owner of fox news, etc.

America is a great land but i think it needs a reformation to have the credit you're giving it

I don't think that a large group of people can be governed well, only small communities can provide fair governance, in my opinion.

Actually Canada pretty much follows both the Great Britain and US party line, after all we are their biggest trade partner. They have a long history of being involved in wars. Check out their wars here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Canada

thanks for correcting me, I had no idea, I guess I was wrong to assume they were substantially more peaceful.
i'm hoping there are free countries out there that get by without partaking in wars often.

"Perhaps you despise the freedoms of speech" No...no he doesn't at all, but I can tell you are about to despise his ideas because he is using his speech to freely express them.

I love how people like you can bash the people that critic this country but won't say ANYTHING about the specific people that are actually corrupt and a complete disgrace to the memory of those that gave their lives. Truth tellers are not our foe, corrupt politicians are. Americans are not free, their economy is entirely manipulated by the central bank interest rate which controls the value of the dollar.

Americans are the most free people in history. And love of country is no abomination.

Now you're just being delusional. The U.S. is not the most free country in the world, not economically, not socially, not by any measure. And it is infinitely LESS free than the American colonies were under King George III, in 1776. Again, more FACT and less MYTHOLOGY would change how you see the world.

http://www.heritage.org/index/

As free as the natives that they enslaved and killed?

I can't even go fishing 1 day out of the year without having to pay $30 for a license

Tell that to the multigenerational concentration camps in North Korea.

Taxes and regulations may be onerous, or even unjust, but they don't mean that this is not a free country.

i'm not saying fighting evil is bad, but fighting evil to sustain evil is.

they use causes aginst evils to justify their evils

Did the Germans once express an exceptional love of their nation?

The vast majority of people that died for this country did so for oil, conquest, political gain. Get a grip, your nothing more then a slave to the oligarchy. An oligarchy that clothes itself in the garments of patriotism and nationalism

that's really not true at all. the people that want oil conquest and political gain aren't the ones dying for it. they're manipulating people into doing it. I do not blame soldiers for war or anything, and I do think they kill bad guys sometimes, but the ones to blame are the ones at the top that send those people over seas.

Every unlawful order followed is the soldiers fault. Each and every time. Each unlawful order an officer follows is the officer's fault, each and every time. It's not the people at the top that kill anyone, it's those that are pulling the trigger who's doing the killing, and a lot of them know it, that's why they signed up, to be killers.

you have a good point, I was typing something like "it's not their fault they're easily manipulated" but stopped haha, because when you put that into other scenarios and what not it doesn't seem right and I realized I was giving people more credit because America is where I'm from.

but I also think about terrosists, those are bad people, killing them is a good thing, but whats not easily factored in is that our own government created those terrorist groups and stuff so idk

it's a hard line for me to define, I hope that doesnt make me seem blind but rather cautious about the views I form. i'm thinking things out in a very similar way to you

but I also think about terrosists, those are bad people,

If someone forces you to blow yourself up or they murder all of your relatives in a slow torturous way, and you believe this, or know this, then are you a bad person?

If someone is mentally weak, if someone is implanted behavioral programing or even worse remote controlled, are they a bad person?

If someone blows scopalnamine in someone's face or inhibits someone's judgement and self control through drugs/alcohol, and they do some horrible thing, are they a bad person?

If someone actively fights the state and it's aggressors, of all ranks and files, are they a bad person?

are you just stating scenarios to encourage my mind to work through and find insight?

that's how it feels

definitely following you, it's great to come across a person that thinks.

In basic training in 1989, we had a whole class on following illegal orders and Nuremburg was heavily discussed. It is the soldier's responsibility to disobey if he believes an order is illegal.

If I get conned, it's partly my fault. I am responsible for my ignorance and my mistaken decisions. When the invasion of 'Nam was seen by enough people to be a mistake, the war ended. As long as enough people blindly support their rulers (so-called reps) their will be blood.

Although I disagree with the American foreign policy proceeding the Korean War(i.e. Vietnam, Iraq) the US did play a crucial role in preventing a further holocaust in WW2 and also keeping the people of South Korea free. Many great men have committed the ultimate sacrifice for something they believe in. For you to say the vast majority died for oil or conquest is entirely inaccurate. I would also argue that patriotism and nationalism is a rebellion against oligarchy. The true oligarchy is the United Nations, the Counsel on Foreign Relations, the international monetary fund, Bilderberg etc.....They want a one world government which people that post things against things such as nationalism seem to support.

1 - Before you cheer too proudly about Hitler being defeated (which was mostly accomplished by Russia, not the U.S.), you might want to keep in mind that World War II ended with the Allies basically giving the second worst mass murder in history (Stalin) half of Europe.

2 - To argue about nationalism versus globalism is only arguing over the SIZE of the save plantation. Either way you are not arguing for freedom.

What is freedom for you?

American imperialism is at least 120 years old. Ask people in the Philippines - they too fought a war of independence.

I mark the beginning of the US Empire at the invasion by the Northern states into the Confederacy. This was a denial of state sovereignty and their right to secede. Lincoln justified this aggression with his imperialistic ambition for control of all states, all the time, as if "Union" was more important than anything else. He didn't say why. He just proclaimed it. He assumed the power to do so, just as he assumed the power to free the slaves. If the president is vested with such power, the president can one day reverse it. How is that power less than a king's? Doesn't freedom come from our humanity, not from the dictate of a ruler? If so, no dictate is needed or necessary to free slaves. They only need to exercise that freedom, if they chose. Freedom/slavery begin in the mind, not with some dictate.

There is no right to secede.

100% agreed!

"Freedom/slavery begin in the mind, not some dictate."..........Tell that to the women and children being trafficked in third world countries. No matter how hard they try in their mind to be free, they are still slaves. Mind power only gets you so far. Freedom and slavery are a paradox. If freedom equals sexual liberty than you are a slave to your sexual desires. If freedom to you equals financial freedeom(money) than you are a slave to money. If freedom to you means being able to say whatever/whenever than you are a slave to pride. To me true freedom is not being able to do whatever you want whenever you want. True freedom is living in accordance with the Creator.

A true sign of an awakened soul. Yes yes it's all a banker wars racket.

And you're a buffoon who spews talking points.

Get over yourself.

You nailed it Mr Horne; See the ranking of such idiotic dogma? Is it reasonable? Absolutely not, but profitable maybe. Best not to feed pearls to the swine who have no appreciation in what real value truly is... For many it is just a job...

Pearls to swine is Two Time Medal of Honor, most decorated Marine General Smedley Butler, who wrote about his experience: War Is A Racket.

It would be kind of narrow minded to think that all of anything can be categorized in one way or the other don't you think Mr baah?
"war is a racket" as in every war fo every kind? I doubt that...

Instead of putting words into my mouth, the person that jumped onto the Ad Hominem to gang up with the first attacker and defend the attacker (despicable acts, from despicable narrow minded assholes), read what it says again: WAR IS A RACKET. Does it say "Every kind of war is a racket". I doubt that...

The mark of a truly critical self thinker is OMITTING using or relying on ellipsis/omison and instead of the fallacious "Draw your own conclusion" the ... begs, they chose to make a complete thought, a critical argument, and make it SHARP, and not blunt and dumb bell like, but swift and to the point, like sWords, practicing precise, and specifics instead of TALKING POINTS (lolololol).

Ah so you expect everyone to be able to read between the lines of what you write? I thought you might be a man who means what he says, sorry...

You nailed it Mr Horne;

No why or how, just agreement that the ad hominem was justified, the lowest scum of the lowest scum.

See the ranking of such idiotic dogma?

Complex question fallacy, best responded with a question questioning the premise of the loaded question fallacy: So what's your point?

Is it reasonable? Absolutely not, but profitable maybe.

Rhetorical device which doesn't answer how or why, instead it only begs the question which it answers without critical thought, devoid of reason or method for concluding it's not reasonable (ironic).

Best not to feed pearls to the swine who have no appreciation in what real value truly is... For many it is just a job...

"..." or ellipsis is an Omission. Because of that it intentionally foregoes the formation of a complete thought, and simply implies one and only conclusion, effectively forcing people to read between the lines instead of expressing what it omits, such argument is always begging for a certain conclusion and because of that function it's the equivalent of draw your own conclusion fallacy, regardless that the thought itself is a sweeping remark about people, thus the fallacy of stereotyping/pigeonholing.

Indeed, turn all that around and direct it at the original post of deformation in "Patriotism" and you will have a very conclusive point...

The subject isn't the article itself, I brought up that to exemplify your actions, to weigh your words and question your conclusion, the subject is your actions in response to the actions of others.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

The use of ellipsis/omission was used to say the conversation is not closed...
By the way was your reply about war in general being a racket somewhat a fallacy in stereotyping?

Nobody said anything about War In General Being A Racket. Do you have a problem with the phrase War is a racket, I mentioned that you're swine and I'm pelting you with pearls, you cannot appreciate it, just as you cannot close a sentence or finish a thought, and so to answer your question, you can stereotype people, but not events, or objects, you can only typecast and pigeonhole individuals.

The use of ellipsis/omission was used to say the conversation is not closed...

Omission is used to NOT SAY something. Instead of relying on people interpreting your omissions and effectively CLOSING THE CONVERSATION, maybe make your thought clear, concise, and conclusive, or COMPLETE.

I used ellipsis/omission to IMPLY the conversation was not closed.

That wasn't hard, it takes a little effort to be specific and correct, to mean what you say, and say what you mean.

Why do you need to say/imply that the conversation is not closed, ever? Are you saying that if someone replies back you will reply back to them or what is the motive for saying that, and how does that communicate that the conversation isn't over?

That's an amusing comment, since your entire original comment was a recitation of self-contradictory, emotional nationalistic mythology you've been taught all your life.

Your cognitive dissonance is noted.

Well, thanks for giving such a clear example (albeit by accident) of the profound confusion that "patriotism" creates. You are obviously angry at me for not bowing to the political class whose flag you wave. You then jumble together the people who resisted British rule with the people who more recently have acted as global aggressors for the U.S. politicians, as if what they do has anything at all to do with "protecting our freedom." By the way, the "Founders" consisted of several nearly principled individuals like Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, and Thomas Jefferson (though all had their flaws), a long with a bunch of opportunistic politicians who betrayed and destroyed the ideas expressed by those three (and others). If you want to unravel the truth, from the mythology you were taught, you can start here:

You compared people waving the American flag today to those people who waved the Nazi flag during WW2, as if there were some kind of equivalency there.

Apparently, you never learned that the people who broke open the concentration camps and freed the prisoners there wore the American flag, and waved it, too. Any comparisons between these saviors of men and the monsters they fought is a false equivalency of the most egregious kind.

You are unworthy to breathe the same air as the people you decry. Patriots have been some of the most remarkable people in history.

Ben Franklin was the man who tamed lightning.

George Washington was one of the greatest tactical minds in history.

Thomas Jefferson was a writer without equal.

Yet you would dismiss all these as simply men who were unhappy about their taxes.

Perhaps we should try to hold your achievements up against theirs, and see how the scales of history judge.

Again, you could use more actual information and less mythology. Franklin, Jefferson and Washington all OPPOSED the existence of the standing army you now worship. But you are simply reacting emotionally to feelings your rulers trained you to feel, lashing out at those who actually advocate freedom and justice. As Voltaire put it, "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."

Loading...

This is my country as much as it is yours. maybe more and the truth of the 4th being Independence Day is hypocritical, we should celebrate the birth of this nation but don't try to lie to the world about independence. Our armed forces have been mostly used for protecting rich peoples monies and property.seeing that our soldiers are paid to defy the thou shalt not kill commandment even flies in the face of Xhristianity.
Juneteenth is a truer Independence Day seeing the kidnaped African slaves in American had been freed (all people actually). Now freedom is being free so if one third (est) of a population was truly free how can we truly have Independence. Only a privilege class couldn't see this reality.

Loading...

No freedom of speech, worship, property or self-defense. It'd be great if it were true, and there might be a little hope for those ideas since so many Americans think dearly of these supposed freedoms they think they have, but I'm not sure any of those things have ever existed in the US.

It's not a bad thing to want your country to do better or love it above all others, the bad thing is that there's no way to make it better if we can never recognize anything wrong with it, when you see criticism as treason.

"Think they have", little check here, did someone censor what you just typed?

This is Steemit, not America. I'm not saying any country in particular is doing better than America, this is not a competition. I've always found it funny how some people try to get out of criticism by talking about places that may have it worst.

Maybe you should spend some time in North Korea or Saudi Arabia. Then you can tell me how we don't have freedoms here in America.

Honestly, it's like you have no awareness of the state of the world.

So as long as somewhere else is worse, it's blasphemy to point out injustices and oppressions here? Interesting premise. By the way, are you at least aware that the U.S. today is infinitely LESS free than the colonies were under British rule in 1776?

Two examples, to qualify the state of the world?

People have had anarchy for over two thousand years in Zomia, a population of over 100 million and never fought ONE WAR, or invaded anyone, 5 different cultures all fundamentally anarchists. Every other nation that has a charter or document of inception guarantees equal freedoms, the racket is that you offer protection in return for mandatory subscription. It's not a miracle, it's not magic, it's fear and feelings substituted for Grammar (who, what, where, when), Reason (why) and Rhetoric (how).

It's like you have no awareness of these things. (personal attack- sharp argumentation exemplifying the decidedly fallacious remarks of qualifying the State of the World by two extreme examples, which was conclusive after a red herring was thrown up "we have freedoms because North Korea doesn't have freedoms")
-

I think patriotism is mean when you stay in your country and defend your country and your territory not go out there where you didn't ask to come and enforce your democracy.

That's like cheering for your tax farm over another. People should be patriotic to causes, not places.

Certainly. And there can be many different ideas about what patriotism entails.

But when the author of the above post claims that patriotism is "an abomination", and says that people waving the American flag are no different than the people who waved the Nazi flag, I have to take umbrage.

Take all the umbrage you want. The U.S. military kills more innocents every year than all the other "terrorists" in the world put together. The fact that you were taught (very successfully, it seems) to worship the U.S. war machine doesn't make it good. Since you don't want to hear it from me, try reading "War Is a Racket," by Smedley Butler, the most decorated U.S. Marine in history at the time of his death. Maybe you'll listen to him.

This is correct.

I no longer like dollarvigilante seeing he resteemed this garbage of a post! Some of these supposed unpatriotic types are welcomed to move to france and venezuela! Right now they dont care much about their countries patriotism so enjoy. :)

It.BLOWS.MY.MIND that those with whom I share this country lick the boots of authority---completely blind to the fact that the founding of this nation was by revolutionaries against the so called authorities of the culture that raised them. Larken talks and writes like the founders did, repudiating bogus authority, condemning 'the rule of law' and condemning 'order' and 'orders' that violate the freedom of the individual.

How surreal, like an episode of twilight zone, being lectured on "PATRIOTSIM" by the very people who would have been supporting the troops and enlisting with the Redcoats to put down the radicalized liberty extremists who founded this nation.

You and the author of this shit post, and many of the commentators here, have completely failed to understand what patriotism is. Patriotism is not loving the government or authority, it's loving the country. Newsflash: You can hate the government and love your country at the same time.

Being a patriot, celebrating independence, and waving the american flag does not equal loving the government or agreeing with all military decisions of the past.

yessir........Freedom is a state of mind and a process I believe. I'm going to need you to become my comment editor. well put

Fail! You're the one licking boots of an anarchist, so therefore he does not speak or sound like the revolutionaries for which you mentioned. Now thats blindness. Do a lil research next time before easily getting twitterpated over some measly words that touched your heart strings.

A few relevant, choice words from the founder of the Nazi Gestapo:

"Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship… Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Well why do you see this post as garbage? I don't think what he said touches any inch of his patriotism to the irony of the situation is how I see it is that this post is the ultimate patriotic I've read in a long time because it doesn't address one nationality and it was written for all nationalities and segments of people من كل حدب و صوب

(sorry for writing the last phrase in Arabic it's just I could not find an expression like it in English but it briefly means everywhere)

Well if that's ur reply to this post.

Then you're missing this post's whole core point.

Please read it again and again and again until you're able to see the "real" point behind it :)

Peace and love fellow Patriot

Based on larkenrose's own responses to my reply, it seems I interpreted the article exactly as the author intended.

Well after I've seen his response, my view couldn't be any clearer and I stand by my words friend.

Ask any 3rd world country citizen about the US politics and what does the flag of the USA represent and you'll see how different it is to yours.

Countries who've been on the lucky side of the American Army bombings can relate so much to the analogy of the Nazi kids waving the Nazi flag and American flags being waved today.

I don't hold anything against American citizens nor freedom.

I'm against the cunny and deceiving politics and politicians.

Please try and read the post again with calm and clear head and I hope you'll be able to see through the border wall

Courtesy of the brave U.S. warriors for freedom and justice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Anyone who's mind is still on the same plane as reality understands that the My Lai massacre does not represent the U.S Military. or the United States, otherwise you would be seeing many more examples of that event.

and before you try and quote some bullshit from the Middle East, check your fucking statistics, because I won't be accepting any civilian death reports that come from "humanitarian" groups that literally get their data from the very terrorist organizations that we're fighting.

Ain't the these same terrorist organizations were funded and trained by your tax money and war professionals :)

Really? You think you live in a free country? That's cute.

Merica. Grab Her By the Pussy! Stand and fight. You can still have guns in Merica. More than I can say for your Anarchy retreats. You mess with the talon you get the horn biatch

Irony.png

my post jumped off that thread you were on and ended up here. I was just being one of your boys in the back of the video throwing up gang signs while you rap. yeah. epic fail.

Thanks for clarifying.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Even changing the name is part of the problem. It is "Independence Day" as in the day a people declared their independence from and declared war on a tyrannical global empire.

Liberty was worth any price--even death. Oh, how far we have come from those days!

Patriotism doesn't bring anything good to humankind because it divides us. I refuse to love my country more or less than any other country.

RIP, this guy was a HERO of mankind

No one knows how we are going to achieve civilization. It is a work in progress. But we have history to tell us what doesn't work. Any society that worships violence as supreme, over reason, over choice, over conscience, fails. How badly? Look at the degree of violence in a society. That will tell you. Are people dying to escape to N. Korea? Cuba? No, because they are very oppressive, violent. They don't value rights, individualism. Everyone is sacrificed to the collective, no one is safe, except the ruling elite.
What direction is the US Empire moving? Is it toward less violence, or more? Are non-violent people being violated? Are millions in prison who haven't had a complaint against them, haven't aggressed, haven't defrauded? Yes, more so than any other country. This is a national disgrace. So is life in the prison. It's torture.
No one is safe from authority, unless they are authority. It's a small club.

I agree with you on that nationalism, statism and government is a evil. It was Stefan Molyneux who convinced me about this years ago.

I responded to your question on the flat earth the other day and here are some videos that might can wake you up to this truth:

https://steemit.com/flatearth/@lasseehlers/flat-earth-on-steemit-do-you-remember-how-it-was-to-be-a-child-awakening-to-the-flat-earth

Well done post You deserve for getting Upvote from me. I appreciate on it and like it so much . Waiting for your latest post. Keep your good work and steeming on. Let's walk to my blog. I have a latest post. Your upvote is high motivation for me. Almost all Steemians do their best on this site. Keep steeming and earning.

This comment has received a 0.08 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @hamzaoui.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

As a German I am on the other side of the patriotism spectrum. We have been indoctrinated over and over again that every national pride is bad and unethical. That the weight of history still rests on our shoulders. This is a terrible thing to do to their children as we all grew up with self hatred and litlle self-esteem.

When I see my US friends showing off their love for a country that their forfathers stole from the natives, the French and Spanish I can only wonder. Why is anyone proud to be any nationality? They didn't do anything for it except when they are a refugee who went through hell to build a new life somewhere else. Everyone else should just stop feeling false attachements to an authority that will just send their children to the next pointless war when they can.

Pride OR shame based on an accident of birth is silly. The notion that Germans should feel bad, or that Americans should feel good, based on the piece of dirt they were born on, is just silly. The "us versus them" that matters is not about nationality, or color, or religion, or income level, or education level, or any of that. The "us versus them" that matters is between those who commit aggression (which includes every "government") and those who don't.

Nation states are just like religions and economies. They are just another chess piece for the oligarchs to control us. My hope is that one day enough people will wake up to the reality of our situation and evolve past it.

How is an economy a means of control?

One based on debt has no element of control? I suppose if a true free market economy actually existed you could say it had no control mechanism. One doesn't though.

Take the USA's as a good example. It is based off consumer spending, and the majority of that spending in financed though debt. Then those people are much easier to control.

Agreed. How easily people are controlled, right? It is a lie. We should defend and support ideals worth defending and supporting, not ethnic backgrounds or nation states. As a species we are intelligent enough to move past such nonsense if we reject all of the attempts to divide us. Will we though as a majority? I'm not sure we will. There sure are a lot of programmed zombies stumbling around.

Yes, there surely are, all around the world. And don't forget the supposedly 10% of psychopaths withouth any empathy.

Loving your country is great however obeying a a dictator or sick leadr to wipe out other people in the name of patriotism or nationalism is stupid or evil. I will never kill or die for POTUS TRUMP (lol, never) or any other politicians as I have kids to feed and other people to help. Sometimes nations or politicians do evil and people cover them up in the name of patriotism...bad

Early Americans didn't love their country though. They loved individual liberty. My "country" is liberty. Worshiping anything else is foolish. Blind Imperialism has done enough damage to this planet. It's about time we put an end to it.

You are correct, unfortunately many people dont think that way

I agree man, there's nothing wrong with loving where you're from, and I think that july 4th 1776 was probably a very honorable day, but what this country has become isn't something i'm very happy with.

God bless the troops and I applaud them and honor them, that's what makes this topic feel like such a gray area for me, because there's so many good people in the usa just like everywhere else, it's just corrupt people at the top steering a ship full of mostly well behaved easily manipulated people.

I'm also a Christian and it makes me sick to see how top people in America use religion to sway people, and twist things into the idea that if you don't love America then you're going against God. most Christians I know fall victim to that.

good post, will follow

... but ... it's a day that Americans are allowed to light fireworks while really, really drunk.

That has to be worth something. :-)

Definitely )

But, only if you live in a state where fireworks are leagal :-(.

Well, only certain fireworks, for we wouldn't want you to hurt yourself. /sarc

Merica

Well said!

To me, July 4 is a day where genocide is glossed over in favor of fireworks. It's like, "here, more beer, forget the awful things this country has done. Yay, Murica."

Done? I respectfully suggest it is still doing it.

Wow! You put a lot of my thoughts on Independence day into words... As a vet I have helped pay the price, and for what? Greed of the Oligarchs, not some "freedom" for others...


Is America perfect? No. However, it is no worse than any other country in this sense. Any country that has the amount of talent, resources and power that the U.S. has accumulated would commit no less the atrocities than the U.S. has in it's history. I think there is an argument to be made that most would be even worse. Human nature is flawed, no one is perfect and those flaws are magnified in a group situation. Power attracts evil, power hungry people who want to oppress others, no matter the geography. Utopia is a pipe dream, so you can yearn for it all you want, and you may find it temporarily, but if so it will only last for a brief time in history due to entropy. So if you are fortunate enough to be on the winning side you might as well enjoy it by firing up the grill, waving a flag, popping some fireworks and enjoying your family. But if you want to follow a miserable little, whining coke head like George Carlin don't expect any sympathy from me, because sulking in faux moral superiority isn't helping anyone. Happy 4th of July and God Bless Texas!


Tex Was Here.gif

I wonder what you would say to some carjacker, pointing a gun in your face and demanding your keys, if he said to you, "Well hey, these things happen. You can wish for a world without violent crime, but this is just human nature, so I might as well be on the winning side!"

No, authoritarianism is not inevitable, and no, it's not okay just because it's familiar and common.

By the way, I AM morally superior to anyone who condones the initiation of violence against his fellow man (which includes everyone who votes for political masters, "right," "left," or any other flavor).


"No, authoritarianism is not inevitable, and no, it's not okay just because it's familiar and common."

I never said it was okay, however I would like to know just where is this utopian country that you are holding up as an example of anti-authoritarianism? (and it needs to be comparable to the US in size because otherwise the managerial challenges are not equal) Because after thousands of years of history man has had plenty of time to achieve it. If authoritarianism is not inevitable as you suggest then we should have multiple examples of this utopia by now. It's one thing to "believe" something and entirely another to "prove" it. Hypotheticals are for burning straw men.

As someone else has pointed out, what a lot of us are celebrating are ideals that were set in place a couple of centuries ago and not the twisted deeds that the government has committed since then. As the founders writings indicate, even they who were trying to start a non-authoritarian government were not naive enough to think that it would survive for long.

Additionally, you will need to lose your arrogance and learn some humility before you approach anything resembling moral superiority.


Where does your "moral superiority" come from that allows you to preach "lose your arrogance and learn some humility..."? Do you see you are the one being arrogant when you make "your" moral judgement of Larken.

"a lot of us are celebrating ...ideals..."? Really? Which ones? Not the ones Larken is upholding.
When you salute/wave the flag you are supporting the reality we live in today, which is a growing authoritarianism, a threat to all our lives. You demand an example of a "utopian country"? Why? Larken can't criticize without it? Why? And no hypotheticals either?
But you are allowed to declare that authoritarianism is inevitable? Where is your proof? Or is that a hypothetical?

You're entitled to your opinions but not your won facts. It just seems to me the word moral is deeply rooted in religion and religion is just fine with violence towards it's fellow man.

"...moral is deeply rooted in religion..."
For most, not me. It never was, and never will be. My morality developed slowly over decades using reason for my ethical system, not superstition, not conformity to society. I decide what is best for me, not others. That's a fact - jack!
If it's your opinion that I don't have that right, I must conform, and you will make me, support a coercive system that dictates to me, then you are NOT entitled to your opinion, i.e., I will never grant you moral authority over me.

"Any country that has the amount of talent, resources and power that the U.S. has accumulated would commit no less the atrocities than the U.S. has in it's history."

Is that an excuse for past and current transgressions? Corporatism and fascism and elitism are "okay" because why? I believe I missed that in your reply.

You don't give a damn because it isn't your nation being bombed or your loved ones being murdered.


The reason you missed that "Corporatism and fascism and elitism are "okay" in my reply is because that is not what I was saying at all. It is the ideals that were set forth at the birth of the US that I celebrate, not the actions of organizations that clearly place no value on said ideals, but hide behind them to further there own twisted agenda. I was merely pointing out that when given a choice between enjoying a celebration of ideals with my family, or strutting around like an indignant peacock blathering about moral superiority when it isn't going to change anything, I'll choose the former. Just because my government doesn't hold true to those values doesn't mean I can't try to live them in my daily life. America is a melting pot of people and ideas, so to assume you know why someone is celebrating the flag without first asking them is a bit ignorant and presumptuous.

Also, if you do not want me to tell you what you give a damn about, then do not presume to tell me what I give a damn about. You guys say you are so anti-authoritarian, but your true colors show when someone doesn't agree with you. You are very authoritarian in the world of philosophical ideas. I believe there is a word for that.


Right, just ignore all the bad things the government is doing. That makes everything OK.

Ignore??? How am I ignoring them when I just pointed them out in my previous comment? Talking to you is like talking to a wall....unproductive. Now if you'll excuse me I've got some meat to go burn before the fireworks start.

I'm an Okie but I still like TEXAS so I voted you up. I love trolling anarchist. I can't seem to reason with these folks. In Merica, WE THE PEOPLE still have guns which is more than can be said for these alleged anarchist retreats. It's still pretty native here in the Indian Nations and Indians are not lovers of the government.....unless their on food stamps and then they only love the government on the first of the month.

Most American gun owners are proud to be "law-abiding taxpayers," meaning they gladly and proudly obey and pay tribute to the ruling class. Which makes their guns worthless, as far as a check against tyranny. (I'm not sure what anarchists you know, but about 96% of the ones I know are armed.)

I'm glad to know that. No need to be an unarmed victim. There is no doubt most Merican gun owners are obedient slaves. But the masses no longer trust the government and the more "WOKE" they get the less government they want. This is the age of American awakening and that's problematic for the G-man, because the slaves aren't in chains and they failed to take the guns. Freedom is a process. Index it like Bitcoin or a stock because it's certainly not static. Be well.

I’m not patriotic toward the imperial, corrupt, and coercive course the United States has opted to take for the past Century or more.

I am however rather endeared and patriotic toward the compelling ideals upon which it was initially founded. The initial intent of the Declaration (and Constitution) was to strictly limit the size of government, and to more or less provide a consensual general framework of “natural law” in place to protect the freedoms, security, and liberty of the individual from a large unaccountable tyrannical government – or mob-rule democracy.

They got the ideals right, but we the people, whom possess ALL the power, failed miserably in fulfilling the “eternal vigilance” side of the contract.

As such, 241-years later, America is now The United States Inc, and no longer represents the natural laws and ideals upon which it was founded.

Up-voted for in-your-face undeniable truth pertaining to recent (not founding) history, and a great comment thread too!

https://steemit.com/freedom/@passion-ground/1776-the-american-declaration

It's all about that ancient primeval will for survival, don't you get that? We can not expect to just go around doing what ever we please and not take care of the business of self preservation. I would like for you to give us just one example of this fantasy you live as a successful Nation on Earth today. It doesn't exist as such a society is not sustainable.

"Patriot" as in Compatriot the root word being of the Latin Partri' (to be part of, a piece of the whole, one with, unity), com being the possessive and the "ot" being of: Part of / with me or commonly defined as Fellow Countryman.

"America" is not to be confused with the Corporate "United States" as they are not one and the same, but different entities entirely. America being the Constitutional Republic and the US Corp. is the Federalist Corporate Commission of the Three City States of World domination known as “Empire of the City”. They are the Shadow Gov, which has undermined American Sovereignty and have taken control by way of the Sovereign City State in Washington DC. They were given dominion over the Americans by the Act of 1871 and Foreign Debt. They are not part of America but a Nation State unto it's self set up that way in order to not fall under American Jurisprudence. They do not pay taxes, our Constitution has no validity in their courts, they have their own "Federalist Constitution", their own Flag, their own Laws and Police.

The American Flag is nothing more than a Tribal Banner. A mark of identification just like a Ford or Chevy Logo. While Extremists might have tried to make the American Flag into more than it really is through twisted symbolism and abstract western hellenized philosophies. It is nothing more than the Banner of the American People.

The Pledge of Allegiance while it is worded toward the Flag it's self, actually refers to the People it represents. There is actually no allegiance to the cloth Banner banner it's self but to the people behind it and all that they represent.

That Tribal Banner the American Flag represents a Nation of People and is therefore shown the same respect as the people it represents. So when you walk on it, what you are saying to all Americans is that you do not respect them. That you will walk on them just the same. If you soil the Flag with filth or burn it you are in essence doing the same to the American People it represents as well as everything that they stand for. If you let the Flag touch the ground, what you have done is disrespected the American People in the despicable act of aggression as in a Nation conquered or removed. For as long as the Banner flies, that Nation lives.

It all comes from a very ancient superstition similar to voodoo in which a superstitious fear of what might befall the American Flag will also befall the American People. So in respect and tradition of that ancient superstition the American flag is shown the same respect as the American People themselves. It is a way in which people like the Liberal ilk have been able to show their disdain toward American People without actually causing any bodily harm. But as you all have seen, even that form of disrespect toward our Banner, the American People and all that they stand for comes at a price. As disrespect toward the American Flag, the American People it represents as well as all that they stand for will not be tolerated.

So when you spit on the Flag, what in essence you have done is to spit into the eye of America it's self. So be fair warned that such disrespect comes at a price and such disrespect will be recompensed. If you don't like it then leave or you will most certainly be imprisoned, exiled or deported.

Wow, you really got goose-stepping there at the end. I'm guessing you also think it's crazy and evil when Muslims kill a cartoonist for making a cartoon of Mohammed, right? Well, guess what. That's you, only with a different fictional deity.

You are completely missing @eliyahu's point and you are doing so for no other reason than to garner an escalated reaction. How childish.

What he is trying to get you to understand is that in one respect, you are right, the government of the United States is the problem. The politicians in the separate city state of DC that walk hand in hand with the very same bankers and Elite that you rail against, are indeed to blame the current state of American affairs. That being said, what he is trying to get you and the rest of the petulant children on this post to understand is that, these politicians and greedy bankers are not the American People. They have not actually represented US for a very long time. The American Flag and Independence Day have nothing to do with them. It is for the People, the everyday, hard working people who do their best to survive with the hand they have been dealt.

Altruistic Anarchy is a fine dream for the young or those who think that it's "cool" to rebel against the machine... but true wisdom comes with age, patience and the ability to reach beyond those hothead emotions to see what is really real.

None of this will matter in even 100 years. This time will be nothing more or less than another cycle in the loop. Stop for a moment and think, think about all of the civilizations ages of humanity. How many cycles of war, upheaval, religions falling in and out of favor, have there been? Has any of it really changed anything?

Your anarchist views have come before, and they will come after, and it will not change. Anger, pointing fingers, ridiculing others, "moral superiority complexes" will not change anything. The only way all of this changes is the same way it has changed before. Evolution or catastrophic natural disaster that forces physical change and adaptation.

Thank you so very much Ms / Mrs @tabzjones I do appreciate your wisdom as well as your appreciation for truth. My words are for a small measure worthwhile...

Are you threatening me with death Sir?
Am I presumed to be slaughtered for my post?
So you bought into all that dogma about the cartoon did you? Now that speaks volumes in who you are and how you think.

Depressing to me to Larken.

Use the public fool system and become a citizen.

Citizens are Slaves controlled by their masters.

  • Yes, People have been intentionally conditioned and trained to confuse the concepts of freedom, and “country,” and independence, and “patriotism,” and one’s home and his neighbors, the things he loves, and the “government” that exploits and controls him.

  • “Patriotism” is used by tyrants to exploit people’s devotion to the good things they love and cherish, and twist it into an emotional attachment to a political entity—a ruling class—which is in every way the arch enemy of those good things (freedom, peace, justice, etc.).

  • To hell with what the Military people say about you, they are sell outs. Killing for pay cheques. Shameful!

  • To hell with Sheeple that support them.


video source: youtube

Great post.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

They are also happy for this :
article-2117216-123DE22D000005DC-342_636x381.jpg
this woman is free after judge in the USA , and they let her go after all she did , you know why ? because Iraq people are equal to shit in American people's eyes !
I am not from Iraq , I am Iranian , but I Believe in Humanity , not Euorp humanity or American humanity , we are all equal ! , we are all came from 1 , Human is Human , we are not wild animals ! , they show us like beasts in their TVs
and still they say : we have to bomb Middle east countries !
us_soldiers_crimes_afghanistan2.jpg

also I have to tell you about this : because I said about Europ , well they killed this Iranian Guy "Bijan" in England , He did nothing , he was studying and living in there , some people around his home came and wanted to kill him , then he go and ask police officers to help him but they say Bijan is crazy he made that dreamy story , then after all he tried , they send him out and later they find him dead , because they killed him , you can read and see videos about him here :
7a8773ded75a6bd050ded84481ed9b553fdd2670ecd986199397b2eb078743a0_3993253.jpg


and

now tell me , middle east is ugly or Europe and West ? , I don't want to blame it on all the people , I even have friends in England and some Europe countries and even I had some friends in the USA
but this is not fair !
I hate of politicians , those who work on people's brain !

We as humans are creatures of habit. As kids we are programmed in elementary school with the pledge of allegiance,other patriotic songs and literature. It's almost a brainwashing process when you look deep into it. By the time we hit middle school the words have become muscle memory and we speak them unconsciously.
image

This is sad, very sad. Patriotism isn't about loving your government, it's about loving your country, and what it represents. Independence Day, for those who understand history, was about throwing off the shackles of Tyranny.

I'm proud to be an american, I'm proud to hold the values that I do, I'm proud of this country's past and what we've achieved. People who don't understand that are usually the people who have a very twisted view of history, and have been convinced that the United State is a war-mongering tyrant that invades countries for resources. These same people are unable to accurately describe the events leading up to a single one of the wars that they've deemed to be a representation of their flawed beliefs.

The left is attempting to destroy patriotism , and make us feel ashamed of our country's past by twisting the truth because if you don't care about your country you won't care when someone tries to replace it with something far uglier.

The U.S. is a war-mongering tyrant that invades countries for resources. Indoctrinated Americans are pretty much the only people on the planet who don't know that. If Independence Day was about throwing off the shackles of tyranny, then the most ridiculous thing people could do to celebrate it is to wave the flag of the new parasitic RULING CLASS that robs and oppresses people here far more than King George III ever did. And that's the point of my article, which you see to have completely missed.

An amazing article...TRUTH!

This article Is a deception, supporting the Rothschild's who are trying to destroy patriotism and the love of America. The US Is a corporation run by the Rothschild's, It Is a great country run by evil tyrants who reside In the UK and the Vatican.
Americans should kick the FED, CIA, NASA and the Rothschild's out of their country and return the United States to a free land. The people within the military should also refuse to be used as pawns by these evil New World Order tyrants. America Is used by these banking criminals to further their agenda. This article Is a disgrace. America Is a fantastic country It just needs to return to being a free country, at present It Is a Corporation controlled by the Rothschild's, beware of article like this don't be deceived.

12234935_1050100605023788_4266655656312168348_n.jpg

The one true way to honor our Independence Day is to Serve! Too many of our veterans have made the ultimate sacrifice and deserve to be honored by true dereference and humility. Happy Independence Day America!

You didn't read the article, did you? Volunteering to be a hired gun for politicians is pretty much the least useful, least moral, least rational thing anyone can do.

I understand where tge persons coming from. I do understand tgat different people and different cultures have a different opinion about the American flag. However, without those that did decide to pickup the arms to defend the citizens of America...there wouldn't be an America today. Now, i do not agree with all that the US has done over the years. But just understand that its not those that choose to serve are at fault...its the corrupt and greedy that send all those who serve that deserve the blame.

So you're sticking with the Nuremberg defense? All the evil crap done by the U.S. military isn't their fault, because they were "just following orders"? The U.S. military is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet.

But you get to fly cool planes, and drop real bombs. Beats the any video game!

Yes patriotism is slavery.

Americans are the worst for this.

Very well put article. Precise, thought provoking and very true.

Couldn't have been explained better @larkenrose.

Me for myself I don't get it, what are these imaginary borders put by humans why is it that people follow orders however illogical they are.

At the end of the day we're only humans sharing the same planet and we can only thrive and strive through cooperation.

Unconditional and unlimited cooperation is the way for a better life for every single soul on top of this place called earth.

kudos from Egypt

Yep, for those who do not know what it is, please search for the term, "Voluntaryism." Consent and cooperation are simple enough concepts. We shouldn't have such a hard time accepting them.

This is fun for us Voluntaryist to read, but the Statist won't get past the title.

I live currently in SW Missouri and the only place that might beat the average yokel around here for "patriotism" are people from Texas. I see huge American flags flying from the beds of pickup trucks with exhaust pipes big enough for a 10 year old to stick their head up while simultaneously donning a Confederate flag bumper sticker which has always struck me as politically schizophrenic.

That being said I think that if there is thoughtful reflection on one's country one can be proud of it. Take Denmark for example, they have come a long way over the years (think Vikings) and now through public discussion, debate, and consensus building they have some of the happiest people in the world. America is a hollow statue gilded with fools gold at the moment.

hi fren you votes good end post you nice

Very good

You’re pretty right it’s an abomination thanks a lot for sharing and keep on posting :)

niice post man !!
and good luck for other posts

The earlier the political elites of different nations of the world understands that ''no teeth that bites the hand that fed her shall stand the test of time'' the better, because i still believe that sovereignty belongs to the people, is a question of time and Nigeria my beloved country is an exception.Nemesis is an incorruptible judge!...i love freedom and fair play.

Today, let's just take a moment and say thank you :)

I thank my grandfather who died actually fighting and killing fascists. These days though? That's not happening.

Live free or die trying... That's the American way. Thanks for sharing :)

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Fourth of July signify freedom and that freedom come at a price, the youngsters in America doesn't realize what they have, a lot has been taken for granted, so they seems to forget, or they just don't know. But 4th of July is a day of celebration for freedom I hope they would gather enough knowledge to appreciate all the ones that fought for freedom. without them we wouldn't be where we are today

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but the U.S. military doesn't fight for our freedom. Ever. In fact, they work for the only real THREAT to our freedom.

If you say the United States Army never fight for the freedom. You are entitled to your opinion. But I think you should look back in history, at that time the Freedom Fighters might not have the name. United States Army but if you think about it, it's the same Freedom Fighters that become the United States Army, when the Declaration was signed it was for the liberation of the nation, Freedom Fighters around the world today is fighting for democracy which stands for freedom and liberation.

There wasn't a United States Army at the time of the revolution. There wasn't even a COUNTRY. It was the people of a British colony rebelling against their own "government." And democracy is NOT freedom. Democracy is the best lie tyrants ever came up with to dupe people into putting up with oppression.

Try not to tread all over other people in the process however.

I believe that patriotism is a bit stupid indeed but.. that's what we have all over the world. Another excuse for wars and dick measurements!

Thanks for sharing @larkenrose, good post, I hope your days are fun.

Very insightful and iny.jpg as always @larkenrose

You definitely have a point.

happy fourth of july to all Americans ,When you visit Japan you can buy with bitcoin and scan to make purchases eliminating the bother of currency exchange and fees for such. The machines with the software are rolling out now.

Truth is, nowadays, politics don't have anything to do with patriotism.

Love for one's country is important but in our world it is just being used by politicians to control and manipulate people.This is only tool that makes it possible to keep running the war industry. It keeps us from being a global citizen and is a major block in the way of world peace...

No thank you Global Citizens I am not for globalism good neighbors have a good boundaries and respect for each other globalism this is Marxism and collectivist Utopia

There's no reason to replace a smaller tyranny with a larger one. We are individuals and our liberties are not granted by nations or other people. I love liberty, not a place. Why are these concepts so difficult to accept?

It's all one big mind control psyop. I mean, independence from what exactly? Lol.

American citizens, as with ALL citizens are definitely not free. So to celebrate liberation from oppression in to another oppression seems wholly ironic to me.

I agree whole heartedly with what George Carlin said, " ...pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own.." Anything beyond that is is a false ideology.

And as with many other things, so many horrors and travesties have and can be committed in the name of patriotism and national pride.

If we were only proud of the things we accomplished on our own and stopped idolising things to put our pride in to, maybe, just maybe this world could start on a road to recovery.

Yeah, Americans think they are free because they are not the victim of the latest police shooting, kidnapping, etc. It isn't happening to me, so there's no problem. It's THOSE people who are suffering, and I don't give a damn about them. /sarc (not a complaint at you, just furthering what you wrote /thank)

I completely agree. The other thing that infuriates me in the very same vein is that most people don't want to change the way the system works because they are comfortable with how it works for them. People en masse are very selfish creatures and can't see or think past their own world view or what they can get out of a situation.

But the times they are a changing......! 😄😁

One thing I can say, you managed to make a lot of people feel uptight with your article. As I am not from the US frankly it is not up to me to have an opinion on this, I do think you do make some valid points.

Actually, you NOT being from the U.S.--and so not having spent your life bombarded with the U.S. nationalist propaganda--your opinion on the subject is far MORE likely to be objective. As an American, it took me many years of deprogramming to see through the crap I was taught.

Great post. I've always been perplexed by these independence celebrations around the globe. Freedom from what exactly, just to have someone else control and dictate to no ... GREAT lets celebrate. The only independence day I would ever celebrate would be one from the #banksters and elite. And wow what a party that is going to be!

Anyway I'm following an an upvote for you all be it 0.01 but that all the power I have at the mo :)

Maybe telling the truth is real patriotism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=hA9GVqMyDqY

Starting a revolution over tyranny is real patriotism. Remember the founding fathers. What did they do? Especially that General George Washington.

George found a movement and was drafted by those without political authority to take military leadership, as if arrogance was enough. It worked. He got followers, He got a lot them killed, captured, and lost militarily, but won politically. (The same way 'Nam won.) If it wasn't for the unofficial grass root secessionists and their military arm, the Minute Men, the separation from G.B. would have failed. But all of their goals might have been achieved anyway, without independence. They traded one rule for another, the king for the state govt. They were still ruled. It was better, but not for long. Along came a counter-coup and a non-violent anti-American Revolution established the Constitution. This couldn't have happened with British rule, if violent secession failed, maybe non-violent politics would have gotten the colonies a freer society, at least in some colonies, which negotiated for their independence.

Many times the politicians with au power of conviction and the strength they have in society with simply their image get their followers do the bad things that they as public characters can not be noticed and react to the false politician who does not help but Which only makes

Agree... great article.
I am proud to be American
but we still got work to do!

fed.jpg

I think we're way too late in the process to preserve what we had we have to have a highly educated individualistic population unfortunately we don't have one

Well written post with a very clear and honest message (my opinion).
Sadly patriotism (as well as politics, Trump, governments, vaccines-health-pharmaceutical mega industry, the flag, the concept of freedom..) always open a big can of worms that shows people ready to hate others for not being part of their own (or brainwashed) indoctrination.

"Americans are the most free people in history" (talanhorne).
I respect your opinion and I am happy for you if you genuinely believes it. I did too had the concept America=Freedom. Until around 20 years ago. Truth is no country, no governments wants you free. "Free" people are problems to politicians as free thinking ships are dog's worst nightmares. The only difference is some countries believe it is better to show it, other believe it is even better to hide it.
It seems you know North Korea. Please tell us about it. I never visited that country. As far as Saudi Arabia I have my own opinion as I did visit.

Dive-diva, you been "disgusted" of this person's post is quite scary. I have read the post again after reading your comment and I did not see anything about an intention to disrespect the people in the military and their families. To the contrary, he wrote:" but that it dupes well-intentioned, decent human beings into accepting, condoning, or even committing evil themselves, without even noticing that they are doing so."
I have many friends among the military. My father was a Navy officer for many years. Many Veterans... great sweet people...all of them not very happy the way the gov treats them now...after they killed so many (and in a way killed themselves in the process) to protect someone's agenda.
I can't agree more with you saying leave if you don't like it, as I did. Except, thanks to the indoctrination-brain-washed school system-cult western society programming, it is believed so difficult to even think of having a chance for a change.

But I am very optimistic about the future. This time we are living is so special.
We have currencies and ways to transfer assets that have nothing to do with central banks.
A parasite greedy enough to kill it's pray die as well. And this is what is happening. Enough is enough. Millions and millions are awakening. We are fed up with the lies. 6% of Americans believes in the mainstream fake news? It never happened before. What was the % only few years ago?
When someone post these kind of posts...we should be united and thankful. Not separated and intolerant. All we want is what we deserve: a better future for us and our children.

Yes the Elite our hoping to have AI robot soldiers to fight their wars in the future since too many people are waking up and not keen on fighting banker wars.

Yeah. It is such a joke. It is all about the programming. To quote a famous german man (Col Klink) ..."You vill do vhat I say,,,,,,and you vill LIKE IT". (no offense to our german friends).

Yes, why there's nothing like a bit of patriotism to keep the war machine well oiled for the banker wars.

Great post, love it. I said it a little differently (and not as well-written) in my own post today. Thanks for your consciousness.

Well done! I hope to achieve your level of writing/photos in future posts.

WAR were no one win but the BANKERS

we don't need war to have peace

Great work as always Larken! :)

Patriotism is a double edged sword. Some good things are done in its name and also some atrocities are done in its very name. I would go for globalization rather than nationalism any day. We are one human race living on one earth. We should therefore strive to make the whole earth better not just our country. All humans need the same things, safety, security and decent living. Thanks for sharing your thought, happy 4 July if u are celebrating.

As soon as one person or a group of people tell another person what they can or cannot do, it is a system that must be rejected for liberty's sake. Voluntary federations of many small groups of people? Sure. Forced globalism? Hells no. No thanks!

Craig Wright thinks the "system" is trying to take over Bitcoin.
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@belerophon/in-defense-of-craig-wright-part-1

To me patriotism is a good thing, I am french and since my country enter E.U. the well thinker politician made war to anyone is a patriot. I have friends who are now forced to live in other country because they get harassed by the government. Me i live in Asia where patriotism is a good thing and i love it like that. What is wrong to love your country. The well thinker are peoples who live in a dream but not reality

Ha, you can always tell who the conservatives are by their ignorant commenting. They validate a lot of the content of this post. If you are automatically triggered to be defensive for nationalism, you should rethink your thought processes. If we can't have constructive criticism of the humans who are in control, then as humans,we will never have true freedom. White Christian Americans love to believe that they run around the world spreading peace, love and democracy to all the inferior races of the world. The real fact is these folks are ignorant as fuck and with technology on the rise as fast as it is, simpleton conservative ideology wont be able to keep up intellectually . America is lagging behind in almost all sectors and that is because of anti-intellectualism. If you have ever said, "If you don't like America as it is, then move away," you are dumb as shit and part of the religious oppression here.

Hello Friend Great Information uploaded by you

Please see my post under the title
"Please Check the POST"
& Respond...

Thank you very much

Hi Larken. I have read your book, The most dangerous superstition, which I found interesting. I consider myself a Christian anarchist. I don't believe people should rule over other people. Jesus was an anarchist too. He preached the Kingdom of God and came against the Judaical Pharisees and their man-made religious laws and control. We are supposed to love God and our neighbours as ourselves. You love God by obeying his commandments and by serving mankind in love, hope and charity. If you are not doing this, you are part of a governmental system of force. If you are partaking of the services provided by the State, paid for by enforced taxation of your neighbour, you should be ruled over by the State because it is your punishment. We as people should come together and serve each other by being willing to freely contribute towards this cause. If I love my neighbour, I will seek to serve him and offer what I have to fulfill his need - through my free will. I am not advocating socialism which is an evil system of forced contribution and redistribution. If we don't stop voting for third parties to take from others what we want {public school, public healthcare, public protection etc} for free, we deserve to be ruled by tyrants who use us as chattal for their own wicked purposes. Jesus called us out of this form of government into a government of service without rulers and that was what the first century church was, before it was corrupted by Constantine and the abominable Cult of Rome.

When ever there is a Memorial Day there's always innocent people been killed in the act of so called justice,

No one should have to loose a loved one to make the day special be kind to everyone doesn't mean you have to like them.

Nice post upvoted and followed......please follow back at @superkrish

Being proud about being born in a specific country is like being proud for having a human body.

Congratulations @larkenrose!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 4 with 175 comments

My response to this post is too long to post in a comment, there is that much wrong with it. I just can't .... If anyone is interested, you can follow the link and read it here;
https://steemit.com/patriotism/@tabzjones/free-will-and-human-spirit-a-rebuttal-to-larkenrose-patriotism-an-abomination

Well, thanks for helping to inspire an upcoming article. You do what so many people do, lumping together a bunch of individuals as "the Founders," lumping their ideas together, lumping their actions together, and as a result, mixing the advocacy of FREEDOM with the advocacy of authoritarian CONTROL, and ending up with an emotional, inaccurate mess of mythology. The funny thing is, I agree with almost everything in the first half of your article (about the Revolution). The problem is that you think the Constitution was a continuation of that revolution, instead of a BETRAYAL of it. Anyway, my article should follow in a day or two.

I think you misunderstood me. I never said anything about the Constitution in my article. To be perfectly honest I think that for the most part, most of it past the Preamble and the Bill of Rights is completely unnecessary and the beginning of where everything went wrong. But you are right. That is a discussion for another post and I welcome the debate so I am looking forward to your post.

Cheers =)

Great post larkenrose , I am following you. Happy 4th USA!

well said, I agree very much!

you might enjoy the snarky undertone in my Happy ID Post, too.
sorry for the shameless self-plug ;)

My country Venezuela is a current example of stupid fanaticism and unreal patriotism.

I find patriotism a very strange idea, partially as a result of moving around a lot as a child (I am currently on country number 8, in terms of countries I have lived in)... And honestly, people are not really that different between countries.

Nationality is a strange construct, why should it make a difference where your parents were born? I know at least one person (my daughter) who has two nationalities, and has never been to either country!

Patriotism, like being a fan of a sports team or joining clubs feeds the basic human need of acceptance and belonging to a group. A lof of people are capitalizing on this need and are ganing control over those people.

Bonhoeffer was a patriot. Hitler was a nationalist. Anyone can wave a flag in a crowd. Few are willing to do what is right in spite of their countrymen. And the easiest thing to be in a free country is a critic.

But it's the flag burners that are the most pro-socialist, not the flag wavers. The flag wavers generally want to be left alone so they can work, raise families, and pursue their individual ambitions. I still haven't figured out what the flag burners want. Everything they've already been given, which is quite a lot, still isn't enough.

The people that founded this country could've left well enough alone and they'd have lived quite comfortable lives. Most were wealthy, gentlemen farmers and professionals, inventors, accomplished men. So why'd they leave a flaming bag of poop at the King's doorstep and start a rebellion?

What happened in 1776 was rare, and good, and worth celebrating. We are celebrating my right to worship Jesus, and the right of others to reject Him publicly without fear of being stoned to death. We're celebrating a nation that was willing to shed blood to stop slavery. People still seek slavery through drugs and welfare dependency, but at least the option to be free, that candle still flickers faintly...

Did I mention I hate what this nation is becoming? Why is it happening? I think the problem is only indirectly government. If 'We the People' replace noble freedoms with vice, and allegiance to a noble document (the Constitution) with allegiance to self interest, what do think the outcome will be?

There were brilliant minds behind this whole thing. They figured it out psychologically and scientifically. Separate black from white, gay from straight, Christian from Muslim etc, and you are left with tiny groups of people that are bombarded with patriotic messages to the point where it is the only constant, stable message in their lives. Then a people's only identity is their nationality.

Interesting perspective. What I find fascinating is the idea that "Independence Day" truly was an act of defiance against one's government and that our founding fathers built the Declaration of Independence in hopes that they might assure that a similar government would not rise in the same fashion on our own soil. While I am "patriotic" in relation to the ideals that are country was founded on, I do not see our government upholding these ideals as they were once intended. At the same time, I do not feel that those that celebrate intentionally ignore the irony of the day. Instead, I feel that there is more of an ignorance regarding the hypocrisy.

Amazing contribution to the steem. I have similar thoughts about patriotism. Thank you very much for sharing. Upvoted and resteemed ! Greets

daumen hoch.gif

Looks like you are a politics. It's dangerous if i never upvoted you. :p Upvoted & Followed !

GREAT

Another good 'un, Larken! Damn, you're good, buddy. Thank you for sharing this and keep up the good work, my friend!

my theme song for the 4th of july:

I like your post that is very useful.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Quite a lucid and poignant article. Globalism in inevitable, but you can't blame the masses for clinging to the safety blankets of religious, racial, idealistic and other cohesive factors. The real culprit here is sloth - I heard somewhere that's a sin? - Intellectual sloth, in that many people (too many) allow themselves to be steered by outside forces of media, government, ideology, etc. and refuse to concoct an original thought and/or take responsibility for their own motivations and beliefs. To be proud of America is bordering on sick and sociopathic, based on how the land was acquired and how the economy is maintained... I mean... for real. I agree with George Carlin :P Be proud of your ACTIONS. Think for yourself. And, go click on my tiny blog posts, lol :P

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Sad true. All good personal qualities like camaraderie,, loyalty, honor etc. are used against us.
(If you wish, read my article The rise of cryptocurrency, Awakening and the euphoria - bad combination).

What a great spectacular and honest article thank you

Thanks for providing some balance.

Congratulations @larkenrose! You have received a personal award!

Happy Birthday - 1 Year on Steemit Happy Birthday - 1 Year on Steemit
Click on the badge to view your own Board of Honor on SteemitBoard.

For more information about this award, click here

By upvoting this notification, you can help all Steemit users. Learn how here!

Good read and viewpoint , people are made scared of real freedom , so they confuse it with being save . They think a gov. keeps them save . True gov. and religion created teaching we think anarchy and chaos are not save , but evil .

History show's me that order ( gov. church , enz ) always led to war and destruction . Chaos ? i think it creates and forms balance , just look at nature .

peace to all

I've always felt this way but never really knew why, until i read your article. Thanks @larkenrose

Well written and couldn't agree more! Patriotism is a dangerous game. How do your fellow, real world country-people see your views?