Detective

bucho (63) · 7 years ago

i really loved the first season and was then SUPER disappointed with the haphazard clusterfuck of a narrative that was season two. when i first heard that it would be Matthew and Woody as the main roles, i thought "that's a pretty weird bit of casting."

and then i saw the first episode and i couldn't stop watching. a phenomenal first season that, i agree, needs nothing added or taken away from it. it's pitch perfect in almost every way. even the ending, which left me a little underwhelmed, was at least realistic (which i appreciated).

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

Season 2 was rushed because they realized they had a cash cow on their hands. They should have had the decency to name it something else:) The characters were copies of copies of what a screenwriter thinks really fucked up people are like...blah!

I prefer to think of TD as a single season show. Season 2 is THAT OTHER SHOW:)

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bucho (63) · 7 years ago (edited)

brother, i am RIGHT THERE with you on both of those points. there was nothing wrong with the acting of season two; its issue was totally the rushed writing. i blame HBO more than Pizzolatto for that. i've read some of his books...he's good. rushing the writing does no one any good whatsoever.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

Yep. What I've read of him and his writing process, TD was the result of a lot of time, focus and energy, and as a consequence, the stars aligned and he created an amazing show.

Season 2 was a job, and a rushed one at that.

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retversus (25) · 7 years ago (edited)

Whilst the hard problem of consciousness persists, and more materialistic thought makes it difficult to discuss the notion seriously, mature discourse about the psychosphere in fiction might be our best chance at exploring the theme. I agree with what you've said in this post, and think the ending was satisfactory as it ensured both characters effective 'closed the loop'.

Of course they didn't silence the entire culture that gave rise to the monsters they pursued, that's a collective job rather than an individual one, but they took evil into themselves and redeemed it. Saw a Jordan Peterson video recently that discussed the Nietzsche quote not as a cautionary tale per se, but as an advisory as to the necessary cost of pursuing negativity (i.e you must reflect it to understand it before you can defeat it).

There's a good quote that reinforces your argument when Rust goes undercover too from Dewall;

"I can see your soul at the edges of your eyes. It's corrosive, like acid. You got a demon little man."

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

Definitely, fiction gives you a shortcut to someone's attention, and allows you to make connections and bridge gaps in understanding.

I loved that quote - a monster recognizes another one of its kind. For me, proof that Rust had been taken over by the psychosphere is when he quotes the line "time is a flat circle". He is quoting a child abuser and killer.

they took evil into themselves and redeemed it

This is where things get complicated for me. The show gives us an ending and it is implied that their dark journey is over. My question is this: would the world have been better off had they decided, maybe in December 1994, to quit the job and focus on their inner demons, on building a better psychosphere from inside?

The whole True Detective storyline is basically 17 years of Rust's and Marty's demons spilling out into the world.

Thank you for an amazing comment, much appreciated!

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retversus (25) · 7 years ago

a monster recognizes another one of its kind - this reminds of of the Joker in the Dark Knight - "Don't talk like one of them. You're not! Even if you'd like to be.".

Perhaps it would have been better if they'd moved on and tried to change. After all Rust calls it a 'debt' rather than 'unfinished business', and the catalyst for them to re-engage is two other detectives picking up the pieces much later anyway. I'm just not sure it would've been easily possible given how much of the case, of the 'demons' they'd already absorbed.

The reason they halted the pursuit was due to personal issues anyway, caused by Maggie seeking revenge. It doesn't just stop the investigation, it causes Rust (the real powerhouse investigator) to give in to the nihilist impulse - "I quit. I'll send you a letter, yeah fuck this. Fuck this world man".

The loss of the notion of any kind of redemption following the death of his daughter causes him to give into the worst of his cynicism about reality, and lose motivation thus allowing the demons to keep spilling out. Marty even looks regretful when he does quit, as if he realises the level of impact that sequence of events has had.

I do think the storyline is a redemptive one ultimately, hence the line possibly lifted from Moores work about the light winning. Marty saves Rust absolving him from blowing up his marriage (and sequentially his most meaningful career partnership), Rust equalises his demons and is allowed a near death experience validating the supernatural (an arguably necessary component for a non-materialistic worldview to sustain itself).

Thank you for the positive response too! I also think this is the best single show I watched in a long while, not since The Wire had I wiped my eyes in disbelief at the intelligence with which a show treated its audience. Discussing it is an immense pleasure, and you have given me a very fresh perspective.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

The fact that Rust felt his daughter's love in the "blackness" is an indication that you are right. And I did like that part, but on repeat viewings I think I became very nitpicky:)

The TDK reference is spot on - it's actually one of my all time favoites and I am considering doing an analysis of the trilogy - and I think this ending of Batman Begins signals who "created" the Joker. It was the Batman - Gotham had no need for a villain of his kind until the Batman appeared.

Jim Gordon: What about escalation?
Batman: Escalation?
Jim Gordon: We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar, they buy armor piercing rounds.
Batman: And?
Jim Gordon: And, you're wearing a mask. Jumping off rooftops. Now, take this guy.
[pulling out a file]
Jim Gordon: Armed robbery, double homicide, has a taste for the theatrical, like you. Leaves a calling card.
[shows Batman a plastic evidence bag containing a Joker card]
Batman: I'll look into it.

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secession (48) · 7 years ago

I love this quote!

TDK trilogy is a treasure trove of quotable material.

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stillwatersart (57) · 7 years ago

I have this show in my Netflix queue. Can't wait to watch it!

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alexander.alexis (63) · 7 years ago

That aluminum and ash point is quite a good catch!

When I saw the toys here again, I remembered the daughter would go on to have threesomes. Did she have a thing for group sex?! It's quite interesting in the sense that the men who killed Marie Fontenot were having their own kind of group sex, let's say. It's almost as if they were saying "this is what you women are like anyway, this is your true nature". And there's the daughter, fantasizing about the same thing (and acting on it years later), but consensually. I always say, after Noam Chomsky, that "consent is manufactured": the smart rapist will brainwash the woman to want it (Scientology, anyone?). Essentially, tho, the act is the same.

About the show, I liked it, but I wasn't blown away by it. I actually prefer Breaking Bad! I think there's more nuanced messages there. And the characters in Breaking Bad seem more realistic to me - for one thing, they change! The characters in True Detective seemed very 2D to me, caricatures, excuses to unload a bunch of philosophy on the viewer, which isn't original anyhow. I think Story comes first, and in this show I saw the classic rookie mistake of story coming second, after the Message. Especially in the first few episodes, the murder and victims were the farthest thing from my mind. As the show progressed, they started giving the people what they wanted: drama with the wife, cheating, sex - and generally just going into the lives of the characters. That's what people want to see: melodrama, i.e. character studies. That's the driver of all story. The thing is, how to do that while keeping the message intact, and visible. The Matrix is still the only really successful attempt in my mind to bring philosophy to the screen. I'm hoping someone will be able to do it better than True Detective.

Btw, your material is probably a good fit for @SteemDeepThink. I'm one of the founders. You can check out the details here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@steemdeepthink/welcome-to-steemdeepthink-grand-opening and drop by on our discord channel if you want.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

The characters in True Detective seemed very 2D to me, caricatures, excuses to unload a bunch of philosophy on the viewer, which isn't original anyhow.

In my mind, Rust's philosophy is just a red herring (although the writer might not agree with me), a coping mechanism of a grief-stricken, lost man. Rust's line about time being a flat circle was a quote from the guy Marty shot in the head. What happens underneath the talk is what gets me, and in that regard TD is brilliant, and consistent to the end. On them being 2D, I really can't agree. I thought their characterizations and the actors' portrayals were spot on.

As the show progressed, they started giving the people what they wanted: drama with the wife, cheating, sex

I thought this was done really well, easing into Marty's family life and its breakdown, as a way of showing what his exposure to the psychosphere was doing to his life.

I'll definitely check out @SteemDeepThink, but I still haven't created a Discord account - have to do that ASAP!

I appreciate your comment very much! :)

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winstonalden (64) · 7 years ago

This was a great show! I've only watched it once so I appreciate you pointing out the little details that I missed.

I actually discovered True Detective when I was reading a review of the horror writer Thomas Ligotti. A lot of Rust's personal philosophy comes from Ligotti's writings as well - so much so that the writers have even been accused of plagiarism.

Ligotti's also written some philosophy. His Conspiracy Against The Human Race is one of the darkest books out there. Fascinating, if hard to recommend.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I tried reading it, but couldn't do it. With Rust, I can see the beauty of this way of thinking because I can see it as a part of his psychological makeup, and not necessarily "the truth". With Conspiracy Against The Human Race, I had no such help:)

I might have another run at it, though:)

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mutu-nz (25) · 7 years ago

I loved this show! and I love this article man! super interesting, I missed the stuff you point out on here. Man you saw deep! Awesome read.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I appreciate that very much!

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fulcanelli (55) · 7 years ago (edited)

I enjoyed this show. I don't know if you noticed, but I was slightly dismayed to find Alan Moore quoted almost word-for-word at a couple of points during this, most notably the very end scene with Rust in his wheelchair. The quote is from Alan Moore's Top Ten, if I remember rightly, where the giant space horse is dying because he has been fused in a botched teleportation maneuver with a random commuter. No cops can attend the scene because they are all caught up with a major vampire case, as I remember. It's a good show though despite the apparent plagiarism. I'm struggling to remember the other example, but I'll let you know if I do. Ultimately, I found True Detective a bit bleak for my taste.

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

Good catch!

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fulcanelli (55) · 7 years ago

Hurray! You found it! I've lent out my copies of most of my Alan Moore collections so I came up empty. I'm hoping my brain will come up with the other quote from True Detective that's very Moore before too long. :-)

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fulcanelli (55) · 7 years ago

I'm gonna see if I can find my old comic books to check my facts.

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kingjan (53) · 7 years ago

Ver intresting review of the movie

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shayer (30) · 7 years ago

I like this person very much

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I wish you all the best on Steemit, but your comment policy reeks of disrespect and will do you no good here.

Just sayin'...

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steemitboard (66) · 7 years ago

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irrs (31) · 7 years ago

Very good post. Thank you for sharing)

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I bet you say that to all the guys:)

Oh...wait...I know you do:

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hrhabibur (50) · 7 years ago

Excellent post

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I think I've seen a similar comment somewhere before, I just can't remember where...

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jvalentine (55) · 7 years ago

Interesting your view. We loved True Detective and have seen them all so far and can't wait for more. Everyone takes from what they see and interprets it differently. Your view is your own. I agree that everyone should see it as it's remarkable. Matthew McConnaghy and Woody Harrelson are superb. The second one we saw was with Colin Farrell and Rachel McAdams, with a surprisingly good performance from Vince Vaughn, well known as a romantic/comedic lead. They were all excellent. We are in anticipation of the next. Thank you

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anarchospace (55) · 7 years ago

I try not to think about season 2 - I was really disappointing by it. Compared to the inspiration and depth of the first one, this felt rushed, pretentious and derivative.

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jvalentine (55) · 7 years ago

Have to agree it wasn't as good as the first one but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I'm a sucker for anything that starts well! I also enjoyed "In the Night Of" and hope that will return

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steemboad (6) · 7 years ago

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