"Recent advances in neurobiology have demonstrated that the microbes in our stomach can affect our mood. Many other studies have also demonstrated similar effects — such as how people with depression have different microbial flora that healthy individuals."
^^^^^ true but MOOD and depression is not the same thing the concept of free will.
Free will isn't a mood
RE: There Is No Such Thing As Free Will
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There Is No Such Thing As Free Will
He doesn't care. He think that the bacteria in his stomach make decisions for him, because someone found a correlation between mood and stomach bacteria.
Apparently, the logic boils down to
Tood = free will = since stuff can influence my mood I have no free will.
It's like, freshman Philosophy 101 up in here.
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I actually presented plenty of other evidence besides science. Care to put your emotions aside and elaborate like a human being that is older than 15?
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The fact that you persist in trying to defend determinism and convince others that they have no free will displays your own internal acknowledgement that others have the freedom to choose what they believe. I can choose to eat, read, watch, and write different things; they will all have an affect on my mentality and future but, as others have already stated, they remain choices determined by my own thought process regardless of the influencing factors.
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not really. it demonstrates that i want to have a conversation. you assume too much.
depending on ads on tv or conversations you had in the past :)
How can you be sure that your choices are yours then?
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Based on your logic, we're all gods determining the destinies of other gods and atoms are just smaller gods that determine the destinies of bigger gods. The only defense you have is "how can you be sure that your choices are yours then?" How can I be sure? Well, I could go place my hand on something red-hot. I dare say more influences would tell me not to than would but I'm not going to because I'd prefer to preserve my hands to exercise my free will and free speech.
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not really.
How do you know that this example was your and not a classic one used by popular culture in order to convey the message of danger :)
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And yet people still choose to either confront or avoid danger. You just persist in avoiding the fact that choices are involved. A message is simply that, a communication. What you do with it, is free will. Some have strong wills than others and I think you're aware of that as you seem to be set on angering me based upon your presumptuous attribution of that emotion. Deterministic folks amuse me, more often than not, especially when they try to convince me that I have no free will ;)
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Great comments mate! I actually made a video about this very subject the other month and I shared it on my blog today. Check it out! :]
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I admit that choices are involved. I doubt though that those are the results of the hosts :)
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Where are those evidences? I can hardly find any. And wasn't that you the one who stated that only scientific method can give reliable data?
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I provided plenty of evidence with the links. I also provided a rational argument how it impossible for free will to exist in a universe where everything is connected to everything else.
For those who need scientific evidence I provided science. For those who needed rational evidence I provided arguments.
You can try and debate those.
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Your evidences has no significance value. Even the author of the article don't make such bold allegations as you do. Other parts of your article is blah blah blah based on nothing.
Arguments as evidence? You've surpassed yourself))) While in science world we are looking for the evidences to support the argument you are presenting arguments as evidences. You're dilettante and you have proven it once more.
Article about pedophiles has nothing to do with the free will. Don't confuse inclination and action.
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But it does. Who are you to determine value anws?
There is no need for him to make. You are the one making the allegation that free will exists. Again, you are intellectually dishonest since you provide no evidence for it.
not an argument.
I did provide both philosophical arguments and scientific evidence. You provided zero. (other than significant amounts of butthurt like in the previous post)
ofcourse it does. It shows how brain physiology can change who you are. A tumor can do it, drugs can do it as well, even a conversation with a special someone can change your future actions.
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Yes, it shows how brain physiology can change who you are. So what? Trauma can also turn you into a vegetable. If you have lost a free will*(let us assume it exists) because of trauma or any other physiological changes it doesn't mean that free will doesn't exist at all. Changes means only that you have a deal with new circumstances.
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action.
Have you proved that inclination 100% leads to action? Prove it first than we will talk about it. Can your opinion without any support serve as a strong argument? Surely not. A deductive argument is sound if and only if it is both valid, and all of its premises are actually true but your premises are false hence your conclusion is false.
Intellectualy dishonest?))) What an argument)))
Mentioned study only states that we can predict with a 60% probability what button will be pressed. As i have said earlier the results are interesting, still they can not serve as a proof. Let's measure more complex tasks first but before it's done you have no scientific support for your claims. 20 years of thorough study the author said. Your personal interpretation of a particular study can't serve as evidence.
So what do we have here? Unsounded arguments and link to an academic study that doesn't make any claims that can support your conclusions and states the necessity of further research on the matter.
P.s.
Alexis fairly pointed that such kind of topics need more thorough approach. I also think so. Try harder next time or you will always end up with such superficial articles as this.
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You are still left with a negative. You need to demonstrate that it exists. Assuming that it does (whether pink flying elephants of free will or god) doesn't cut it. The burden of proof is not on me. I just provided sufficient evidence that it is impossible to exist.
That's not what I mean. Ofcourse we all choose how to act. The point is how that is influenced. How do we know it is ours and not influenced from other things?
There is no need for "thorough" examination. We have a very basic question here. Humans are the product of their environment. Our parents, friends, family, food,. everything contributes to what makes us, us.
The question for someone who believes in free will is simple. How do you know that the actions you choose to take are yours and not influenced by someone else?
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You could address the fatal flaw in your argument I pointed out in another comment.
Or, you could address the fact that almost everyone here disagrees with you:
"I'm not sure this article even understands the concept of free will. "
"wrong"
"Free will isn't a mood"
"On the level of consciousness there is however free will. I "can choose" "
@maxnachamkin knows the type of anti-rationalism you are promoting:
"The "there is no free will" paradigm is used to shirk responsibility for how someone's actions are affecting one's life and the lives around them."
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your mood obviously affects your actions. 1+1=...?
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So if your MOOD affects your actions (which you freely perform). Then yes there is free will
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Define "freely perform".
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Ok @josephd
Saying we don't have free will to CHOSE our actions doesn't make sense. Comparing a feeling or emotion or mood to free will also doesn't make sense bevause free will isn't a MOOD.
Our emotions and feelings lead us to CHOSE certain things. But even if we didn't feel that way we may still chose the same thing.
Free will doesn't equal MOOD!
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Ok, but that's not what this is about. Read my other comment
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Confused you asked to define "freely perform" @josephd
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If your mood is affected by the flora in your gut, this the food you eat then there is no free will. If a cup of warm tea can make you feel warmer then there is no free will. If everything you are and everything you believe is product of your culture then there is no free will.
There is no evidence for free will because simply it is logically inconsistent. Humans are by-products of their environment. They don't and cannot exist independently from their ecosystems.
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So you are telling me that if a flora in your gut makes you EXTREMELY depressed, you wouldn't chose to get out of bed if your house is on fire? (AKA free will)
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No need to go to extreme examples. It could definitely affect your decision to pick up the phone, eat specific foods..etc
after all, this is how medication works. This is how illnesses affect your decisions.
no such thing as free will in a world where everything is interconnected.
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Okay, agree to disagree...This is is circular logic and reminds me of:
Child: hey mom where'd god come from
Mother: well he's just always been here
Child: where did the earth come from?
Mother: god made it
Child: where did god come from
Mom: i told you he's always been here
Child: well who made god
Mother: no one did he's just always been here
^^^^an actual convo i had with my conservative Christian mother as a child. Circular logic. It doesn't answer questions it just keeps returning back to the same thing
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Well yeah. you have an assumption that free will exists, much like religious people believe in God. If you can't prove that your actions are independent from the stimuli of your environment then you have no evidence that free will exists.
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Lmao.
If someone asked me if I wanted the red pill or the blue pill
I have the free will to chose which one i want
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Great comments mate! I actually made a video about this very subject the other month and I shared it on my blog today. Check it out! :]
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I think bacteria was a single example of how an environmental factor can influence how we behave. Of course there are tons of different environmental and genetic factors that all have influence on how we behave. I think that all of these environmental and genetic factors come together to determine our thoughts and behaviors.
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