Why I gave up Christianity

in philosophy •  8 years ago  (edited)

Giving up my belief in Christianity was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I was raised in a Christian home, was a leader in my youth group, and went on multiple overseas mission trips. In college I attended multiple church services every week, lead bible studies, and even attended a 3-month leadership training program. I was that guy who only listened to christian music because all secular music was evil. I waited until marriage to have sex with the mother of my children. In other words, I was a hard-core evangelical conservative Christian.

While it is common for many people to lose interest over time, I suspect it is very unusual for someone to switch sides as dramatically as I have. It took me years to come to terms with it and in the process contributed to the break up of my marriage and made certain things awkward with my parents.

Pursuit of Truth

The whole process started back in 2006 when I began to pursue the truth in everything. I started reading about libertarian philosophy and Austrian economics. In the process I learned how to think clearly, rationally, and with a focus toward eliminating contradiction in my beliefs.

This is where I started developing strong convictions on the immorality of government. I became convinced that initiating the use of violence was wrong. Not only that, I became convinced that the use of violence systematically makes all of society poorer. This means I began to reject the legitimacy of all governments built on violence.

Biblical Support for Liberty

As my perspective on government was changing I began searching the Bible to see whether my new understanding fit. The good news is that I could find plenty of support in the bible.

… ’Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” — Matthew 22:39-40

Aside from “loving God”, the 2nd greatest commandment and all the laws of the profits supposedly hang on the phrase of ‘love your neighbor as yourself’. This phrase is effectively a statement of “don’t do to others what you don’t want others doing to you.” It might imply going above and beyond, but it certainly encompasses the silver rule.

So straight from the mouth of Jesus I had confirmation that my libertarian beliefs are founded upon the greatest commandment from which all other commandments must submit to.

I proceeded to reinterpret all other parts in the bible with this perspective in mind and found that almost everything taught by Jesus himself was compatible. What I also found is that many christians interpret Jesus’ teachings in ways that are incompatible.

Hypocrisy in the Church

For a while I used my new found insights to stir the pot at bible studies. I felt certain that most Christians would quickly recognize that their support and even worship of government was sinful. Sadly, most people could not make the connection.

Sunday morning sermons became unbearable as pastor after pastor gave messages that were incompatible with the 2nd greatest commandment. I took these pastors aside to talk with them about it. It went nowhere.

How could I attend a church that pledges allegiance to the flag of a government that is waging war around the globe? How could I attend a church that subjugated itself to the government by filing for 501.3c status?

There are certainly some churches out there that reject 501.3c, some that don’t pledge to the flag, and even some that are completely libertarian in their philosophy. But by the time you filter out all of the false teachers there is hardly enough for a small congregation in towns with 10’s of thousands of people.

Would God let 99.99% of Pastors miss the Mark?

I started to ask myself a simple question. How can people who pray every day and maintain a relationship (two way communication) with Jesus can be left completely ignorant to their obvious sins they commit. How can God let these people lead his flock with so many obviously false teachings?

There is only one obvious answer, these people are not hearing from God. If God was dwelling within them, and they heard the truth, then one would think the Spirit would stir inside them to confirm the truth. They would immediately repent, ask forgiveness, and sin no more.

This isn’t a matter of intelligence. Many of these people are incredibly smart. This is a simple matter of “hearing the truth” and “obeying”. Apparently God doesn’t care if you understand his laws, only that you obey. If God was speaking to these people, then they would know his voice and would obey. Clearly, these people are not actually hearing from God.

You cannot trust People

Since I have clear evidence that most people who think they hear from God are clearly not hearing from God, I must now question everything. All of christianity is a bunch of people telling and retelling the same stories for generations. Each generation chooses to believe the prior generation.

People believe because not believing would result in becoming a social outcast. Who wants to strain the relationships with everyone in their life? Who wants to question beliefs that seem to answer big scary questions for which there is no obvious answer (such as what happens when you die).

Back to the Bible

If you skip through all the intermediaries you end up going straight back to the bible. The bible is declared the infallible word of God by most. Here we have a logical dilemma, the part of the bible that claims this was written before other parts of the bible. Furthermore, it only claims the “word of God” is infallible, but no where does it state what is and isn’t the “word of God”.

So I started looking into how the books of the bible were selected. Lo-and-behold, it was done through a democratic process. People, many of whom were appointed by the Roman emperor, voted. Here we have the people problem again. Not only that, we have a government problem.

At the time the bible was written there were few people who could read and write. Those who were able were often employed by governments. It is clear to me that governments at all times and places attempt censorship and practice propaganda. It doesn’t take much, just changing a word here or there can completely change the meaning.

Even the oldest known copies of the bible are still greatly removed in time from the people who wrote them.

Shared Delusions

It became clear to me that people are very vulnerable to falling into group delusions. People around the world have often willingly adopted an unquestioned belief. Beliefs can be so strong that it is not uncommon for people to commit mass suicide.

What this means is that conviction unto death is not a sign of truth. Dependence upon communities was so strong that renouncing belief in the shared delusion could appear to be its own death sentence.

Ultimately, all we have is the testimony of people who knew Jesus directly. This testimony is as reliable as any other testimony of people today. After all, plenty of people have claimed to witness miracles. Many have doubts about these people, but we are supposed to trust someone who lived 2000 years ago?

Removing People from the Equation

The bible claims that even those who do not hear the word of God are still liable because all of nature testifies. In other words, ignorance is no excuse and those who remain ignorant are doomed to hell. You are only saved by knowing Christ.

I decided to take this point of view and simply pretend there were no people around to tell me what God says. I decided to look into nature. It was here that I discovered meditation and through meditation I became more connected to who I am.

If all that is necessary to know God is available to me without the need of people, then clearly reason and rationality are a major component. I concluded that anything that could not be deduced from reason and nature could not be guaranteed to be from God.

At this point I concluded that almost everything that makes christianity, Christian, cannot be derived from nature. What remains is a solid belief in a set of moral principles that hold me to a higher standard than what is taught in churches and the bible. But these principles do not make me Christian.

Am I going to hell?

Well, many christians believe Once Saved, Always Saved so I guess I am covered by my prior belief when I gave my heart to Christ. Some would say I was never saved, but I couldn’t tell the difference for years. I certainly have nothing against God and obviously am more than happy to yield to anything he requests of me. I just don’t trust anyone but God to deliver the message.

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Christianity lost me at the age of 5, when I had a discussion with my mom about the amount of toilet paper I should use, and she told me god would watch me even there. I think this was also a key moment to questioning authority overall.

Thanks mom!

Privacy is so obsolete! God watches how much toilet paper we all use.

And don't you wonder how the modern public toilet knows that you just stood up and that it's time to flush?

They do say the NSA is everywhere...

Yeah, and I seriously trust them to really save my toilet metadata if possible. Courts will hopefully protect the contents at least!

I guess you live without smartphone and internet also right now for the same reason(?) Or did she not tell you about that yet?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Why? It wasn't fear of someone watching me. It started a process of thought, which finally resulted in not believing any religious stories any more. I've always questioned everything with reason, religions don't withstand that.

Age 5? Wow, congratulations!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

It was a process I guess. I don't remember a lot of my childhood, so this situation definitely made a big impression. I learned reading at that same age, spent a lot of time studying the bible, and also received the communion with 7 or 8. I know for sure that I didn't believe anything that happened there.
I resorted to praying once, when I couldn't find a toy or something in my mess around the age of 10. But I quickly realized how silly that was :D

  ·  8 years ago (edited)
  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I knew the answer at the age of 10, don't need to read those today: imaginary friends can't talk ;)

Unless you prayed to St. Anthony, and he helped you find your lost toy ;).

From what I read you have given up on institutional Christianity (man made religion) but not Christ? There's more of us out there then you know. Keep seeking, be encouraged. I would say, being ordained into the call for 15 years and 31 years of being radically born-again, there's a real mess to sort through--if we are honest. About 2 decades ago I came to similar conclusions. I'm learning liberty is wrapped up in simplicity. Loving Christ and loving people is powerful truth. Though simple, this is a very big statement because we have to ask the question, "what does that look like" with authenticity. It will cost us everything: ego, reputation, fame, popularity, being understood, family, etc.

I believe Paul said it best, "Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ." Phil. 3:8. Love will cost us everything BUT knowing the eternal Purpose (being conformed into the image of Christ--becoming love) and having an eternal relationship with Christ far outweighs these momentary light afflictions in this life. Living the reality of the Kingdom of God.

Thanks for your honesty my friend. The Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth. One last encouragement, as it was shown to me by the Heavenly Father, in the middle of our logic, rationalization we cannot circumvent faith. They should be married, the two wings of an eagle that soars. Blessings!

Spot on!

If you skip through all the intermediaries you end up going straight back to the bible. The bible is declared the infallible word of God by most. Here we have a logical dilemma, the part of the bible that claims this was written before other parts of the bible. Furthermore, it only claims the “word of God” is infallible, but no where does it state what is and isn’t the “word of God”.

Download the bible here...
https://steemit.com/bible/@bible/holy-bible-pdf-download

Dan,

I hope when you gave up on Christianity you didn't reject your faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus can reveal Himself to you in an unique way, tailored your system of thinking, that affirms He is the Truth. When Jesus offers His Truth to you, don't reject it. Please consider this thought.

Well said.

Such a sad post. If you are a Christian, you can't give up on it. You can't cling to the belief that "Once a Christian, always a Christian" because that supposes you were one in the first place, and does not mean that if you denounce Christianity you are still a Christian. It simply means that you CAN'T give up on it. I will pray for you. By the way, you are using my work in a way not allowed by Getty licensing agreements: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/wooden-crucifix-on-open-bible-royalty-free-image/200397018-001

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

There is only one obvious answer, these people are not hearing from God. If God was dwelling within them, and they heard the truth, then one would think the Spirit would stir inside them to confirm the truth. They would immediately repent, ask forgiveness, and sin no more.

I really believe that Elder Ephraim of Arizona is one of the exceptions!
(It is really worth watching it. I think he gives an answer to Daniel Larimer @ 43:10!)

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1070418

Wait. Are you saying thay father Paisius is not an exception?

very strange

I know I said it in response to your introduceyourself post, but this one reinforces it, we are in such a similar place it's almost weird. Fortunately for me, my wife was already looking over the edge when I jumped down the rabbit hole and she very willingly followed me down it. The rest of my family, not so much. I've even started telling my wife that I'm not a Christian because I'm so, so far away from what the average definition of one looks like. I also found myself identifying as an anarchist and the more I paid attention to what the Bible actually says, the more I feel it's more of the way G-d intended us to live than what the average Christian conservative in America lives like.

I'll be really excited to see what other posts you have coming relating to your faith. It sounds like it will help me to process where I am even better.

Great read. I was raised Christian too and consider myself very fortunate to have been able to shake it off in my teenage years. This inspired me to write a little piece of my own on the subject

  ·  4 years ago 

Здравствуйте! Я вижу, что вы уже 2 года никак не используете свою Steem Power. Я на Steemit 3 месяц и мне бы она очень пригодилась. Если вы вдруг случайно загляните сюда, прошу загляните ко мне в блог. И возможно, вы захотите делегировать мне свою SP.

Well said, some solid thoughts here. You might like to read this and this. They describe critical realizations on my own quest for truth.

Dan, I can follow your reasoning very well. I no longer attend church or am affiliated with any religion. I am a recovering evangelical. I do, however, still talk to Jesus and God. I believe in God and I believe in Jesus and I am saddened to see how his love and wisdom is perverted in the social/political club known as church. (but that's another topic for another day) And God is rational and orderly. Chaos is not of God.

What really resonated with me was your statement, "I just don’t trust anyone but God to deliver the message." In my life God HAS sometimes used people to deliver his message but those people were unaware they were doing so. Sometimes they were not even believers in God. As a rule, anyone telling me they have a message for me from God, well, I simply do not believe them. My experience is that they have an agenda and it may or may not be for my good. Usually not so much. God knows that I won't trust them so he won't be using them.

Thank you for sharing your philosophy. I appreciate your transparency.
AM

Hey Dan,
I truly love your openness in this post! I think the problem is that many people are NOT open in this way about their faith. We are told as believers that we are not allowed to question God or the church, and it is something I do constantly. I too was raised in a Christian environment and church life (and even was in a Christian Reformed school for many years). The people in my school all were very into predestination and they believed therefore that God somehow chose them to go to heaven so they would get away with all sorts of things while mocking me because I was not baptized as a baby (I was dedicated). They told me I was going to go to hell.

You talked about how the Bible mentioned that even those who don't hear about God can find him (the rocks cry out and all that). The interesting part of my story is that even though I question loads of things in my faith, I have never questioned God being real or Jesus being real simply because I was actually partially deaf as a child with a speech issue to follow it. . .and Jesus seriously came to me in a dream and healed me and I woke up able to hear and speak as if I were completely normal which made everyone go insane because it was impossible (I was going to need a hearing aide and sign language because of how bad it was). I therefore have no doubt about that.

I totally think that God can indeed reveal Himself in nature. I feel most peace while outside. I feel tormented otherwise at times (probably because the silence kills me and I love hearing birds, water, the sound of the wind blowing objects and leaves around, etc).

As for the Word of God being infallible. . .I am one who believes in the Hebrew scriptures while the New Testament books I don't believe to be "holy scriptures" I honestly will believe in Jesus' teachings but I will not do everything that Paul states or Peter or John, simply because while they all had God's Spirit moving through them, as I believe I have, we all definitely make human mistakes. My ideas on God have changed over time. My ideas on life have changed over time. I have seen Paul's own letters do that. . .I see how he grew in time and understood things differently than he did once before. Therefore I will quote things we know Jesus said since I truly believe he was the Son of God (though I don't believe he IS God, which is something that causes people to have a hard time with me since I am not trinitarian as I believe Jesus separated himself constantly from His Father). That alone would make people to think that I am not a Christian.

I believe very much in the Acts 2 church. The early Christians did sometimes go to the temple to learn of God's word, but they did not have one preacher to tell them how to live. They had discussions. They shared all their belongings. They were without need. They had elders who would be helpful, but not ONE pastor or anything who didn't listen to what they had to say. Jesus was their "priest" to intercede for them. He left them the Holy Spirit who he said was better to be with them on earth than him being on earth. They were nothing like what was established in the third century, creating a bit of the church as we now know it. I honestly am not very for church. I like the idea of people who are believers gathering together to talk and hear one another out, then to go out to hang out and learn of others and to share the love of Christ that was once shown to them. I don't see "Christians" today going out living in doing what Jesus said they are to do (visit the sick, help the oppressed, visit prisoners, give our tunics to people, walk and extra mile with someone, etc....) I just see a bunch of selfish people who look down on me.

I have had friends stop being my friend simply because I disagreed with them on what the Bible stated. . .When I asked them to simply discuss our difference and to love one another through it, they couldn't deal with it and called me an unbeliever. It really hurt. You'd think they wouldn't give up on me if I were an unbeliever. So yeah. . .I actually truly get your post. I see your point. It makes sense to me so much. It is so sad how Christians act today all prideful like Pharisees instead of humble like Jesus.

Dan, thank you for sharing your journey with us. I would like to respectfully point out the drastic change from one belief system with the label "Christianity" to another belief system with the label "Libertarian." Go deeper. Keep meditating. Yes, people are the problem and also the solution. If it weren't for government I might be dead right now due to the fact that my father wanted to murder me (a pastor) and I have 2 serious mental illness diagnoses. But because of the help of government I have made all my dreams come true - musician, recording artist, writer and now actor in film. All because government was there to save my life. The court system has not always been on my side (I have written about this - custody, child support to a sociopathic drug dealer who hired lawyers to crush me ) but nothing is perfect in this world - obviously.

Your story is very similar to mine, welcome brother. It will settle down, you will see. Less religion, more Christ, that's the way.

Look into Augusto Perez from The Appearance Ministries. He is originally from Cuba.
There is such a thing as having a real encounter with God. It's not just words, or a belief system. Also, Pastor El Masih from Cry of the Persecuted Church. God plucked him out of a no where life from Pakistan. He had an encounter with God too - it wasn't just words or belief that got him either.
Henry Gruver only ministers as directed by God. When he does things on his own, he could easily meet death. This is why he has to go with God.
God can and does prove Himself real. There's nothing to deny, though you can still turn away.

Dan thank you so much for sharing this. I am happy to see that I am not alone.

I like that you took from it what was valuable to your life and left the things that didn't fit your personal philosophy that is a sign of a more enlightened mind good for you.

Great post. I'm a Christian, but I am not naive to think there aren't a lot of problems in the church. After all, they are people. I trust the scriptures more than the Pastor. Why can't you be a Christian and keep your own interpretation instead of ditching the whole church? They need more pragmatic thinkers like us to hold them accountable. And it sounds like you still believe in God...you just have a problem with the church. How does that not make you a Christian anymore?

Hi Dan! You covered some important points and I thought to discuss more about this topic that's why I have made response thread. The last para is very interesting and worth discussing more.

https://steemit.com/religion/@princewahaj/jesus-christ-never-claimed-that-he-is-god-instead-it-is-mentioned-in-several-places-of-bible-to-worship-only-one-god-and-why

hallelujah more power to ya
i love this honesty, true faith and openness
i was raised athiest, never read the bible, still, and still not sure "if jesus was real"... but i found god in everyone and everything and me, and i feel and know jesus´energy, this consciousness...and strive to uphold all the truths "he" told/tells... i call them ethics instead of morals because morals are subjective and often stem from the control and limitations of religons, but ethics are objective truths and all fall under the golden rule
this is an incredibly frank story and i hope it continues to spread, help others spread their wings

@dan, I am still waiting to hear your side of the story!

this feels like it came right out of my head... lol... I too turned away from Christianity after being raised christian... and even a leader in my church as well. As I was reading this I was amazed with how similar our paths were... from fear of hell to pursuit of truth. Seeeee... this is why i love seemit!

Love the post and I couldn't relate to myself more. It took me years to leave Christiany and I'm happy with that now.

@dan, I am very late in catching this post, but I have to upvote and say, very well said. I have held onto the title of christian but have long ago reconciled myself to the knowledge that people will mess it up. Too much personal interpretation of the bible, and often by people who haven't read it! I hold onto one thing as truth, my salvation experience. I don't know how many really remember, or have even had, that moment where you could feel a God and his love. What I do know is that is what should become the direction of any spiritual focus. I call it my filter of love, everything (can you believe I had to type everything 6 times before my fingers got back in line!!) goes through that, it lends perspective. I applaud you

@dan
Well said my friend, I think ones internal compass has the right programming most of the time, it's the man made "religions" That cause the problems. we have all heard that Religion Has Killed More People Throughout History Than Any Other Cause. Anyway enough of my soap box.
Your article was spot on!

@dan where are you from? My wild guess is somewhere in South US? Your story is idenical to mine. Thankyou so much for sharing.

I relate with so much of this post. Very similar background and a similar deconstruction of beliefs. I passed through some very liberal Christian beliefs but ultimately it feels like the morality I believe would be true Christianity is believed by so few Christians as to make the label rediculous.

Plus, if God is real and the Christian faith and story is true then it seems to have failed... Which makes me think it isn't true.

I can conceive a Christian narrative that is a great wonderful, redemptive idea. But stepping back and looking at the world broadly both in space and time - that thought experiment seems to fail to me...

How has it failed?

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Excellent post!

A touchy one, given how sensitive a subject religion is for many. But raw honest.

Respect for your departure from dogma into the world of reason, and for sharing your journey. A fine snapshot of the human spirit emerging into the light...

Yes, People ARE fallible! For sure on that one ! That's why He came. Seek Him, not people or the church. God will show you the way he wants to use your life, Dan. God bless, Mary Beth

The question I have, is how to convince Muslims of the God they worship, being all but real, peaceful and oh so fake?

No muslim dare consider changing their faith for fear their family will cut them off or worse.

False, my parents and family are muslim.
i stopped being muslim since i was 15.

True that too, but to make them realize their whole God and worshipping is a waste of time and life, is something one must focus on, not Christianity.

Do you think maybe we stay committed to all kinds of belief systems we don't recognize as "religion" in order to remain part of a "family"? Examples: alcoholism, politics, family roles, etc. etc. etc.

Dan I have nothing to teach you. What you have learned is the truth. All I ask is that you keep fighting for truth as you have done so well, no matter what it takes. Thank You, for going this far.

Hi, thanks for sharing that post. I wonder to what world view you're holding now?

Taunted God ✓
Disappointed Dad ✓
Upvoted with both whale accounts for good measure ✓✓

;)

Glad to see that you were once a Christian at some point in your life. True Christians are disciples of Christ.

Since He is the Savior, the LORD, and the Judge, the only doctrine anyone must agree with is His. No one else's opinions matter, including yours and mine, because it won't a difference now nor then when we stand before Him.

Some people care so little for their soul they will put their eternal destination on such frivolous words of "Once Saved Always Saved." God does not live in time. You were saved by faith, you must live in faith, or you will not die in faith, and therefore you will be eternally condemned without a Savior.

My hope for you as a brother in Christ is that you will keep the Faith in Christ, and not allow the deceitfulness of sin harden your heart to the point were you give up your trust and obedience to His Words.

P.S. God can use any "jackass" He chooses to speak through, and as long as their words agree with His words it is His voice. To reject the King's messengers, is to reject the King.

I'm pleased to see that you left your fellowship because of your sincere search of the truth in everything - not because of it being out of fashion, or because believing in a God is considered naive by lots of people, or because you wanted to be free to enjoy life (sin). Because you are sincerily searching for the truth, you will increasingly find it. I'm looking forward to your next posts about the topic.

Thank you for sharing your story. I wonder - where did you get your "belief in a set of moral principles"? What helps you to decide what is right and what is wrong?

I had no idea it was written through a "democratic" process, I thought it was written by prophets of some sort but that's because I don't know that much about it really, that's good to know! Now, I'm sure the government agents who were involved could be trusted not to push their own agenda. Totally!

Even I know better than to trust politicians!

The books were selected by democratic process. The writing was done by individuals.

The Council of Nicaea made the official Church position (note, I do not say Catholic, as there was no such denominational split at the time, apart from some Eastern Churches in some schismatic disagreements. The point of the Council was to resolve such differences.) of which books were considered part of the Cannon, only in that after 325 years, these were the books that the majority of Christians' and their various Churches and leaders of the Churches throughout the known world were using. In a way, that was a type of grassroots democracy as to which books were used by early Christians.

The later decision by Luther on which books to remove from that Canon is quite interesting. For instance, Luther decided to abolish the 2 books of Maccabees which have various verses that support the Catholic notion of the Litany of Saints, i.e. prayers to the dead, etc. Supposedly, scholars claim that these two books were used by traditional Jews circa 2 millennia ago. Best throw out anything that does not conform to your worldview, eh?

Luther even wanted to go so far as to want to ban the Book of James. This is due to James 2:14, which states, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" Alas, this did not actually occur.

This particular verse did not sit well with the concept of Sola Scriptora, hence why Luther wanted to be rid of that particular book. Not entirely sure why / how the Book of James managed to survive.

Edit to quote James 2:24, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." and James 2:26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

The book that were removed are very interesting too.

@dan, did you license that photo from Getty Images? See this post about your photo from @dmcamera. She has made a serious claim that you did not. I don't know if she realized at the time that you were one of the founders of the Steem platform.

On Steem, we make money on our posts. We are professional bloggers here... all of us. It is only fair to license the stock photos and images that we find on the Web. And as I noted in that post, this is a

DIRTY BIG SECRET


Dan,

I get where you are coming from in your post. I know this comes way to late but on behalf of Christians who are really trying to live like Jesus and not mess up His message I apologize

Proverbs 3:5-6 says yeah, right, do not trust anybody but God. @dan, you said you do not trust anybody but God and that is what God said too and that is what being a Christian includes which means you did not give it up but you are part of it.

It seems I'm not alone in going through a similar process of losing eternity. Thanks for sharing your story.

Excellent article. Where are you now? If you were to re-write the article 1 year after this article would it be written the same or has the meditation lost its luster?

You did a great job writing this. I'm sorry your marriage fell apart from your journey. Maybe, if you wrote it again it would be the same or maybe you have discovered or reverted back to practices a year later. If you write a follow-up on this please then please let me know on one of my posts in the comment section so I can read it.

After reading your post, I believe you to be a strong/important Christian. Im not concerned with the label of faith but anyone that can level with theirself in the manner you have has known love. And I believe no one can know love without having been loved first. Great post.

My answer: https://steemit.com/christianity/@writeorwrong/love-verb-the-necessary-christian-focus

Good afternoon @dan
I hope today finds you well. My name is Jane and I was intrigued by this blog post. I would love to invite you to be a guest on God Waves, a radio program on MSP Waves radio network, to speak to our listeners. God Waves is hosted by @globocop on Sunday afternoons, 4PM CST/5PM EST at mspwaves.com. We would be truly grateful if you would consider accepting this invitation to dialog with Chris further on the subject, and to hear more of your story. Please contact myself if you are interested, and I will put you into contact with @globocop on Discord. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to hearing your reply. Have a wonderful afternoon!! Thanks again for consideration.

Read your story, I've definitely had the same thoughts and questions. I've got a couple of questions: what kind of church were you in? did you ask anyone worth asking about these issues you have?

I think it's important to remember that it's easy to judge any "religion" by it's followers. I believe it's really easy to see what's wrong, the hypocritical-ness, or errors of it's believers.

Ghandi said (i'll paraphrase) something along the lines of "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

For me, as a Christian, that says we as followers are missing something.

Personally, I think people get swept up in new fads, spiritualism, etc... which to me is soooooooo odd. What's wrong with what Jesus taught? Love God with all your mind body soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

We don't have to understand everything completely...and on the philosophical level...we never will. Enter Faith.

I encourage you to be patient and be yourself. Do what you think you need to do. I know deep down that He's with you always:-)

Take good care.

Hi All,
It is about the Gospel, about Jesus, yes, people might be involved, but even the heart of a king, can be changed by God easily. I am sorry that people around you or goverment might stumble you for a while, but if we look ip to Jesus and put our trust on him, he will bring us to him put of the maze and confusion of human history. It is God's history after all.

You're literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater ... in your words. By your last sentence you've made it pretty clear that you actually retain faith, Christian faith. You left the Church ... try reading Revelation for yourself. It tells you to do that. Welcome out, man.

I don't see any problem with giving up a group for the sake of following Christ. Sometimes, it's not just the best thing that we should do, but we have to.

Allow me to add to some of the points that you mentioned.

  1. Would God let 99.99% of Pastors miss the Mark?
    Mt 7:21 says "Not every one who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven. If you read the next verses it says, not even some of those who preached the gospel, cast out demons, and do mighty deeds in God's name. God will simply tell them "I never knew you, depart from me you evildoers."

  2. You cannot trust people. Back to the Bible.
    “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." This is from Proverbs 30:5-6. This verse simply tells us that the words of god is flawless, pure and tested. The reason why there are a lot of religious groups noways is because people are free to add to the words of God.

When Christ was on earth, he only do things as the Father commanded him, speak things that the Father wanted him to speak. But in our times, people casually add to the "Words of God", as if they more powerful than god.

Because of this, it is really no wonder why Christ said this
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

God bless!
Hope you will find a group who will really stick to the Words of God.

I tend to see “god” speaking to us in every occurrence in our lives. Every person speaks through god all of the time, sometimes speaking on levels beyond the words themselves, it’s often more about the context.

Reasoning and rationality are one half of the equation. Faith and appreciation are the other but faith doesn’t need to be specific, faith in life is enough.

I hope you’ve come to trust humans againnsince writing this. If we are untrustworthy it’s because we haven’t had much of a chance to grow a culture around new ideas without the influence and coercion of the old. We are beginning to now thanks to people like us coming together even beyond borders, but this is only for the last few decades, which is nothing in comparison to the amount of time we’ve been stuck in the same old cultures.

Thank you for sharing your intimate journey in knowing God. I share much of what you've come to know...realizing that the Holy Spirit is my guide my teacher my friend. Very good read-well written.

Hi, you just made a point based on your observation, experience and studies over the years. But not all your assertions are true. The problem in Christianity is just that many christian refused or failed to have personal encounter or relationship with Jesus Christ. By knowing Christ one on one, you will discover many of the writings in the bible are not just selectively influence by government but rather allowed by God to be there for our good. Though there be individuals (may be preachers ) who change Gods word to suit the personal interest. In such case you don't measure your faith and relationship in Christ with them. Understand that Christ is your yield-stick and not man. In all i would say hold-on to Christ and His unchanging Words.

Hi, you just made a point based on your observation, experience and studies over the years. But not all your assertions are true. The problem in Christianity is just that many christian refused or failed to have personal encounter or relationship with Jesus Christ. By knowing Christ one on one, you will discover many of the writings in the bible are not just selectively influence by government but rather allowed by God to be there for our good. Though there be individuals (may be preachers ) who change Gods word to suit the personal interest. In such case you don't measure your faith and relationship in Christ with them. Understand that Christ is your yield-stick and not man. In all i would say hold-on to Christ and His unchanging Words.

As a Christian reading this I say with a humble heart that I felt some minute piece of yours and your family's pain reading this. The points you've raised on the whole seem agreeable, I would like to comment on a few of your remarks, there are many I could go into but I've picked four:

  1. and all the laws of the profits supposedly hang on the phrase of ‘love your neighbor as yourself’. If you read on further to Matt 22:40 it clearly states "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” The first being to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. Christ did not say 'be liberal' or 'be conservative', these are man-made terms added to the plain simple identity of being 'Christian'. Two distinct label types.

  2. 'All of Christianity is a bunch of people telling and retelling the same stories for generations. Each generation chooses to believe the prior generation.' I understand if you went through the traditional route of biblical indoctrination today you would be quite right in thinking so. Only recently have the Dead Sea Scrolls been translated into English, they have been independently dated to have been written between 200BC-100AD, nothing in them contradicts the biblical narrative in modern translations such as 'The New American Standard bible'.

  3. 'People believe because not believing would result in becoming a social outcast. Who wants to strain the relationships with everyone in their life?' With respect, I would rephrase this to 'People do not believe because believing would result in becoming a social outcast.' (the upvotes/payout of this post could be counted as support to that statement) One example China, had an estimated 20,000 Christians detained by the state in 2015 alone, up 8% from 2014 source I understand being the leader of a Church study group as well as having done missionary journeys you may think that the norm is to have belief in Christ, however that is not what we're currently seeing in Western society one of a number sources

  4. 'It became clear to me that people are very vulnerable to falling into group delusions.'
    Very true, (this is not aimed at you personally) The current group delusion I see when looking at the world is that of denying Christ and assuming the philosophical position of 'Your truth and my truth can co-exist provided no harm is done'. There's a fundamental contradiction in that truth is exclusive.

To agree with your view in one respect, I would say that the Popes position should not exist. Christ said in Matt 7:13-14 '13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.'
He said himself 'I am the way and the truth and the life.' Clearly the 2billion Christians worldwide out of a global population of 7billion is not 'few who find it'.
It comes down to a genuine relationship with Christ, that which I strongly suspect is non-existent among many people seeking the glory of man via theological and doctrinal knowledge. We are told to continually seeks God's kingdom and righteousness, then all other things will be provided. Admittedly the ecumenical Church today is more concerned with the latest creed or ceremonial festival, precisely the reason I do not go to church or learn from those who submit to the pontiff.

I understand this has ended up getting rather long (apologies) but I genuinely believe you and me are made in the image of our creator and that Christ suffered and died because our creator loves us too much to watch us suffer without hope.

If you'd like to see what a Christian belief and relationship with Christ devoid of lifeless ecumenical church doctrine looks like I would invite you to browse my content here on steemit. I came to Christ 12months ago (prior to which I was a strong atheist) after reading a book written by an ex CIA operative precisely on the corruption of the governments of the world. Peace be with you.

'Furthermore, it only claims the “word of God” is infallible, but no where does it state what is and isn’t the “word of God”.'

Jesus is the Word. It states this at the beginning of the Gospel of John.

Listen, I'm no advocate of Fideism (Roman Catholic here), but isn't the whole point of divine revelation to reveal a God that is, in principle, hidden from the workings of a finite intelligence?

Thought provoking piece!

Why am I just seeing this post today?

Truly, you are a man of wisdom.
I had an argument with a christian yesterday. Turns out your points were the exact same points I used and once again, I couldn't be disproved.

You just became my world's favourite man and just like you, I'm still searching for the truth. However, I can say that the truth can definitely not be found in christianity/the church: It's actually quite the opposite.

Thank you again.

I just don’t trust anyone but God to deliver the message

I only put my trust in God not in any pastor or any church leader for the know not they are doing.
The best education is self education. Everyone need to at down and study the Bible with free mind and have a personal understand of God. God has already given us freedom through Jesus Christ but the government and even churches still deny us of this freedom.
Thanks for bringing the freedom (bitshare, Steem and EOS) to us infirm of a decentralized world
The world will never forget

I hear he never leaves a good man behind, let us pray for Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour

Hi Dan, I am new here. I just wrote my introductory post. Your testimony is very interesting. I totally respect your opinion. I hope you will visit my page sometime. I have know many others with similar views, and there was a great, bright light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for sharing.
Jesusgirl

Awesome read, Dan. Would you consider yourself an Atheist at this point? Not a "Join the club" type of thing, I'm just genuinely interested :)

I will get more into my beliefs in future posts. I find labels are tainted with too many preconceived notions to be worth using.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I just don’t trust anyone but God to deliver the message.

"Atheeist" comes from the greek "a-Theos"
a=without
Theos=God

Christ has been and always will be, whether in the form of Jesus or Horus. He has been, still is, and always will be the love inside each of us. He will return in the flesh not claiming to be Christ , he won't have to. It will be proven. E=mc2