On the matter of Stoics qua Dialectics

in philosophy •  6 years ago  (edited)

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- On the matter of Stoics qua Dialectics -

"[Humans] are disturbed, not by things, but by the principles and notions which they form concerning things. Death, for instance, is not terrible, else it would have appeared so to Socrates. But the terror consists in our notion of death that it is terrible. When therefore we are hindered, or disturbed, or grieved, let us never attribute it to others, but to ourselves; that is, to our own principles. An uninstructed person will lay the fault of his own bad condition upon others. Someone just starting instruction will lay the fault on himself. Some who is perfectly instructed will place blame neither on others nor on himself."
Epictetus, 5th § of the Enchiridion.

So I had made light of not only using Stoicism in my previous post but even going with it along with my current studies in Psychoanalysis, Proletarian Feminism and Marxism. So lemme go on and explain myself there - of course not to excuse it, that's to make me guilty; but to remark my usage of such and how I have sympathies for it though I am not a Stoic in the fullest sense. Of course I have only sympathies since, to go with Hegel and Marx and Engels, you cannot become what already has been dialectically superseded - there's of course the modern Stoics, but I need to sit down and actually read them before moving on. So I state sympathy instead of commitment - as to shrug off actually Stoics but now narrowing their concerns to how I have interpreted and possibly made false of what the Stoics were suggesting. Now lemme explain my philosophical sympathy for such a group that I could, for all intents and purposes, work with.

What is a sympathy for me is much like an acquaintance in a world of connections, useful to pick on when I want to explain a concept and to demonstrate an example. But unlike an acquaintance, I do ideologically practice it and work through the apparent contradictions it can have with my primary ideology-philosophy. Stoicism, much like Pyrrhonian Skepticism which I might touch on later and have to obviously re-read on that, are very much useful tools for me to analyze the World around me and to live my life. To go further, my sympathies for Stoicism goes further as well - where some I might just tinker out of usefulness and make my perception of Dialectics better, I go further in incorporating, or attempting so anyways, it into a Dialectical framework.

For in a Heartless World that is in Spiritless conditions, Stoicism nowadays isn't an escape but, like Absurdism, an ideologically-philosophical rebellion against a NeoLiberal Social Order. Stoicism demands you to confront what is actually in one's control and what is not, which leads you to question what is to worry and what is to worry not and to not accept the present when you have the control to change it. Now of course I mentioned the power of we and what we can control together, and this is a mere Dialectical Idealism in me playing off - but one I wish to remind that I stuck to having a Dialectical Materialist backing whenever I do wish to properly explain it one day. Getting back on track, I mentioned the we as a way to explain the power individuals uniting can have when one alone couldn't possibly control and how that we can be steered to help steer material flow to our favor.

Yet I also mentioned efficiencies and how we ought to strive towards that, especially dropping moralisms altogether. For it is of no use to say x is right when we know the Social Order will say no, so if we value x as a virtue, then we must work on building towards a New Social Order that values x as a virtue. Stoicism is, after all, an application of virtue ethics and the most sincere of Stoics values justice over the non-worry of things out of their control - if nothing else, it tells us what society values and what society sees as a vice. But also the fact that Stoicism doesn't tell us to shut up, we very much can perceive something negatively and we can very much get our passions stirred - which a NeoLiberal Social Order dislikes when semblances of differentiation are ignored. In fact, the basis of justice is to fight against vice whenever we have the ability to do so, for how can one be actually virtuous without practicing the virtue equally to all that deserves it?

And a modern Stoic project today is one that fights to remove all these inefficiencies, these hindrances, of contemporary society and build on the efficiencies that won't hinder us and lead us to a virtuous life. The Stoics today ought to call for justice, as they had applied in the past, and stand with those struggling for justice, as that particularity of the we is fighting to gain control of something it can have control over. Stoicism in its universality may be indifferent to groups and total application of justice, but it turns no blind eye to injustice and shall not mock people suffering from such - for their wails shouldn't be our worry, that is out of our control, but the root cause of this symptom should be as we can gain control over that and supersede it. The revolutions of Robespierre's France, Bolshevik RSFSR, People's Republic of China and so on and so on proved that what was out of our control can be turned into our control and can be dealt with. This is why I have sympathies with Stoicism, all the indifferences in its philosophical structure lays out many paths, a Dialectical approach leads to a revolutionary project and the establishment of new virtues that roots out the hindrances that plague contemporary society.

Of course this isn't a writing post, or a video or even a truly philosophical utterance - just a footnote I felt like including. It's out of my control the length doesn't stick to my formatting, but so is most things. Regardless of such, it bears no more constitution than what is required out of this - so I shall no more even put the slightest of thought. If you're flustered, be so but you are angry at how you perceive the piece in front of you. If you are not, so much a Stoic you are, but maybe out in this instance only and you must be denoted as a "stoic" in this instance. If you are a sage, so much the better for you - may one share thy wisdom to those not a sage then?

"Consider when, on a voyage, your ship is anchored; if you go on shore to get water you may along the way amuse yourself with picking up a shellish, or an onion. However, your thoughts and continual attention ought to be bent towards the ship, waiting for the captain to call on board; you must then immediately leave all these things, otherwise you will be thrown into the ship, bound neck and feet like a sheep."
Epictetus, 7th § of the Enchiridion.

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What I can sense here is that you could almost take all philosophical heritage and extract the same message: not to worry. But consider. The great figures of history, be it from the Greeks or the Romans, the Occident or the Orient, they all gave a path: to start from the self and then wide the circles, take each and every one in ones journey to arrive at the big picture. Only to come back to the micro cosmos of ones own world and stop for craving any social order whatsoever.

Giving up changing forces and start instead the intimate relationship with the self. By intuition this is going to change ones own "nature" and will give chances to another social order in the small circle of touchable and reachable humans. This, almost accidentally will give a social change. :)

Though the whole world will never reach the same state, being, standard. If so, all life would end.

I find your attitude very much appealing and not so clenched teeth. ... I wanted to write more and refer more to your content but was interrupted by a call. Now I must leave.

Until later!

Ah, well here here to a follow up. But maybe of your German background you may have heard of Hegel in your studies in Philosophy. Anywho, a self-consciousness is for another self-consciousness. We can do all this self-reflexive development that’ll self-transcend ourself, but we need others to fully reach a self-conscious spirit. Yet just because we sublated away from the individual level means not that it goes away, in fact it stays with us and makes up the complexities of life. Anyways, I agree with you, maybe for wholly different reasons, and say what Socrates said on change: “The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”

I'd like to challenge that statement:)

Take little children. They don't have a concept about social order. When two kids play on the beach and one builds a sand castle while the other enjoys himself in the ocean, certain scenarios are probable: the kid comes out of the water and joins the other one. Or he starts his own sand castle which arouses eventually the interest of the other kid who finds it more enjoyable to be a team in building. He abandons his started creation and they have a good time together. Kids at young age do not have this strong sense of ownership and easily follow their spontaneous interests. When having enough of building they eventually are having big fun to destroy their very own creation and to jump the castle into the ground.

Now, adults don't do that. They get dependent on their creation and don't want it to be destroyed. They attach their identity to the castle and build up some pride and habit to manage it. They even support outsiders of the castle by trading goods and taking care of the outsiders well fare. But if the outsiders mock them, badmouth them and start to build their own castle newly from scratch right next to them the insiders feel threatened. ... What, if all the people leave them and join the new movement? What, if they start to starve and lose supporters from their own ranks? Didn't actually all have a good life? And even though the new castle is no threat at all, it actually would gather further abundance and thriving opportunities, the fear of losing advantages and habits grips the old folk. Because the already see that the Youngs feel attracted to a new order and creation and start to leave the old castle. The new castle becomes a threat as it creates fear in the established to must change and neglect what they cared for and loved.

If new things make the insiders believe that they must fear loss - as a result of bad communication and bad public relations - then the conviction grows that the new order has to be fought off.

The concept of appreciating the generational growth and experiences from the past while at the same time valuing what is needed for the newly growing people would be a better approach. To follow changes one should not question offensively the old but to be sensitive about them and leave them space for welcoming what has become inevitable. Without "making them understand" but to integrate their needs.

Social order is a thing which moves in great timespace loops. What has begun hundreds of years ago shows its effects in the present. Numerous people have built on and followed this order. While numerous others have taken influence and started another order. Those two opposing forces never will create a common standard or status quo. It can't happen and the very desire it should happen creates the biggest suffering and fights. It's the egocentric will and wish that big changes must happen during an individual life-time. One wants to witness the changes and cannot put good hope into the future and leave it to the next generation to profit from what one likes to be true.

The biggest problem are not the currently perceived social orders but the huge desire to profit from what one wants to have changed in his life right now and here and to have justified it.

So the old and the new do not enjoy to destroy their castles but do it with grim and hatred. They do not jump together but against each other. What they don't see is that already there are numerous others who give nutrition to both forces.

Really, I tried to imagine what would happen if all people on earth would reach a common standard in habits and convictions? I found out this is not going to be the case. It's impossible. If this would be so then all people on earth must be born at the same time, live at the same time and die at the same time. You cannot influence the delayed appearing standards of formerly inserted creations. The transformation is a slow process and one should not push it limitless.

For me, this is the essential insight that I must not worry about the world or about what other cultures and nations should do for my well being (like freeing women from oppressing men abroad) but to consider self governing.

So, I would extract the word "all" in Sokrates sentence:
“The secret of change is to focus your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”

And I would add: for the benefit and well being of those who come after me.
This will actually not make me suffer but give my own life a better and more peaceful meaning. I am not at all for altruism.

Now since I do share sympathies with Pyrrhonian skepticism, I do have to point out my percieved problems in this argument before I utter my utterings to you. (Nota bene, these posts and points aren’t to win you over, but to engage in dialogue for the sake of dialogue - not for argumentation or winning gravitas.) The problem lying in the fact that yes maybe kids aren’t born with inherencies, that thought experiment negates not that kids can be conditioned into ideologies and Social Orders and negates not the change away from it. Anywho, this argument isn’t the problem - the implicit undertone is where you’re suggesting that I am suggesting that people born under x are going to be like that since birth. Although maybe I hadn’t jab that at all in my posts, I shall nevertheless take the fault on that and make it clear that I follow the tabula rasa argument.
However, you and I may seem to follow this very argument - but where we split off is the fact that I say a kid afterwards shall develop traits based upon their interactions with life and a bunch of small psychoanalytic stuff; and you state “childhood innocence” argument at the get go which betrays the tabula rasa argument. Regardless of these utterings on the actual foundings of a child, there appears another thing we agree upon: the consciousness of a non-kid, Adult human. But again I shall state here, on my part and only my part for your sake and where I possibly hadn’t made clear enough elsewhere that, even they will change as their Social Being takes precedence in the formation of their Consciousness and Self-Consciousness. For just because they were this means not they will stay this, even the worst of the worst can change but there has to be a path for that and the worst of the worst has to make the effort to cross that path. For the governors were once governed and educators once educated.
But now this was the actual piece I wanted to touch upon: change and “equality.” I never stated, though implied it may appear, and you’re the one that sticks to this point that I supposedely want everything to be equal. We can struggle and practice towards the ideal were everyone can be lifted towards the highest of ideals, but we shall never reach their yet damn happy we shall be that we’re always close to reaching that end. Anywho, I care not for perfect ideal worlds. Now unto change: Socrates makes it very clear to not be a destroyer and be a builder. But recognize that you cannot build over something existent, one has to be sacrificed for the other. So Socrates won’t wince when something is fought against, but he expects the struggle to supersede the old for the new. For there shall be conflict, pains and losses - yet such is life in a world of ever-changing conditions. As the struggle for the New recognizes the neccesity of why the Old made itself the way it found itself but recognized the neccesity to root out the inneficiencies of the Old so the generations ahead shall not face them - that much has to be stated.
Withal, some of the Old can and shall be allies, some of the New will have to be confronted, but the New Social Order who is genunine In-and-For-Itself never excuse itself of its Terror against the Old Social Order’s Reaction. Else it shall find itself In-and-For-Itself guilty and decay either back to the Old or facing movements that shall supersede its movements to carry on its original quest. As in the end, the New’s founding members that shall not excuse themselves are more willing to take out both of their eyes so the offspring shall commit no sin to the effect they did. All so a slightly better world is achieved.

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