SOME SERIOUS ISSUES exposed by recent PRICE HIKE [discussion, only PH core team members]

in piotr •  4 years ago 

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INTRODUCTION

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Good morning,

The reason behind me writing that publication is to "brainstorm" some issues and problems with PH economy. Problems which have been exposed lately, while the price of STEEM and HIVE tokens reached recently such high levels. Those are problems in the fundamental structure of PH economy, which I organized during different times. Problems, which need to be acknowledged and addressed asap.

INITIAL PH ECONOMY ASSUMPTIONS

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From the very beginning, my idea has been to build a business/community model where people who participate in its growth would be rewarded. I didn't want only authors and curators to enjoy benefits.

I knew that in order to attract the attention and support of large stakeholders - we need to build a strong, healthy and active community core team: engaging people, who love collaborating with others. Delegators, content creators, curators etc -> they would gravitate towards us if we could establish a strong team within our community.

I decided to introduce a model where authors are setting up beneficiaries to @ph-fund and those resources have been used by me to cover a number of expenses. A huge part of that budget has been allocated to support the most active and engaging members of our community and I've been currently supporting approx 30 people with some amount of STEEM tokens ("weekly support").

And it has been working fine. Till now.
The recent price hike exposed some real issues of this model. Let me explain it in more detail.

FLAW IN Project.hope economy model

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Around a year ago, when we've started the idea of supporting our core team (which has been way smaller at that time) with some weekly STEEM - I assumed that it would be wise to allocate some % of all received beneficiaries.

My assumption has been, that amount of STEEM coming to ph-fund will be increasing and I will work with budget growing every month. And for almost a year - that assumption has been very correct. As we progressed, there have been indeed more funds coming to our budget and a daily average of STEEM flowing into ph-fund has been growing as planned and predicted.

So I decided to allocate a large % of all those funds for that one purpose: so we could use it to support financially our most active core team members. And as long as the price has been low - the average amount of STEEM tokens "earned" by PH has been increasing. Slowly but steadily.

It is not the case anymore

The recent price jump resulted in me learning something new. And it's quite a worrying lesson. Allow me please to quote part of the conversation I had about this topic with @alokkumar121:

crypto.piotr — 03/04/2021
reality is, that I need liquid STEEM - partly to cover PH expenses (since I'm using approx 5k steem monthly to support our core team)
I used to get 5-6 steem for each SBD, and now it's little more ... .but if SBD will drop down then 1 SBD will be 1 STEEM
also amount of received steem in rewards is less (since price is higher)
so average there was >100 steem coming daily in form of beneficiaries
right now it dropped to approx 60 steem daily
which is already 40% drop


so imagine how difficult position I may end up in:
steem may be worth so much more, so all authors will be happy
and that 5k steem distributed between all active members has huge value now
and in usd all funds coming to a beneficiary are growing
but overall .... amount of steem coming to beneficiaries is less and less (while price goes up - that's just an algorithm I guess)

I hope I'm making sense and everyone reading this post does understand the problem by now? Additionally, several users recently removed their delegations, and many more started powering down. People want to enjoy current high prices and sell part of their holdings. Which I totally understand.

That will result in even fewer STEEM tokens coming to our fund.

Allow me to summarize it

Currently, fixed funds used to cover various expenses within PH were approx 50% of entire STEEM beneficiaries. If the current trend continues (increasing steem price and decreasing amount of steem received in author rewards) then we will "hit the wall". Sooner or later.

Right now SBD is worth 8 steem, so I do not despair. However, once the price of SBD will drop to its the natural value of 1 USD (which will happen sooner or later), then I may end up having a real problem to deal with.

Hope I made it easy to understand so far? I would like to introduce this problem to all of you, so you would be aware of it and hopefully, we can come up with some solution together.

ADDITIONAL ISSUE

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To make things worse ... I've recently realized that some members receive weekly support, and yet they do not seem to engage at all. Some of them wouldn't drop even ONE SINGLE comment within PH in recent week.

And few others are engaging (comments) strictly and only on HIVE. This is making it a little bit awkward to support them with steem tokens if their efforts are only good for the hive chain.

SEEKING SOLUTION

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I strongly believe those are crucial concerns that need to be addressed ASAP. And obviously, I would love to hear what you guys have to say. You may either drop me a comment below or contact me via discord (where we can brainstorm ideas even further).

We've discussed this topic already with a few people and the solution I like the most is quite simple: to launch HOPE token and reward those members who are engaging and participate in the growth of our community with those tokens.
Only our members would receive HOPE tokens (depending on their input and efforts within PH). At the same time, some % of all revenue on both chains (beneficiaries) would be used to buy-back and burn. This way we would maintain steady and growing price of those tokens.

There would be no airdrops, we wouldn't try to sell any of those tokens to raise funds, and supply would be limited. That would create an environment with very low inflation and low selling pressure.

Personally, the more I think about that solution - the more I think that it is a natural step for our community and those issues exposed and described above are definitely a great reason to consider launching our own HOPE token.

What do you think? Please share your thoughts with me. Let's work on that together.

IMPORTANT side note:

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For the time being, I will continue with current weekly support till the end of April. I will put it "on hold" the entire program starting 1st of May.

In May I will be working towards adjusting Project.hope economy. So we all could re-start the "weekly support" program again ASAP.

Yours
Piotr

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Dear Piotr.

I have a simple and effective proposal:
You must establish the amount of the weekly support in dollars.

I'll give you more thoughts via discord.

All best, Juan Molina.

Dear @juanmolina

That's also not a good solution. It wouldn't really change the problem. It just problem would be reversed -> if weekly support is pegged to usd, then price drop would become an issue.

Reality is, that the only sensible way would be to adjust budget for that particular activity every month. Depending on level of beneficiaries coming to ph-fund. And it would mean, that every month weekly suppot would have to be adjusted as well (?).

I'm not sure how to achieve that any other way than mentioned above: by launching our own HOPE token, which would be transfered to all active members the way they were receiving liquid STEEM right now. And to use some fixed % of all beneficiaries (both chains) to buy back and burn those tokens.

This way pretty much everyone could trade it on the market since buying pressure would be guaranteed, and at the same time selling pressure would be coming only from our group.

I will have few weeks to digest this problem and figure out how to approach it. Will talk to you via discord soon.

Yours, Piotr

Greetings, by means of the following message I confirm the reading of your publication and I will leave my contribution by means of discord.

On the other hand, first point, I think that logically we must stop rewarding those who do not
Second point, there are those who make the same comment on Steemit and Hive posts and they are counted as two comments, that is illogical, so I think you should organize that, as tipu does, commenters on Steemit and commenters on Hive.
Those who comment on Hive earn Hive and those who comment on Steemit earn steem.
Third point: following the previous one and giving you an example, I can make 40 comments in Hive and 10 in Steemit, being these different, I win for my 40 in Hive and for my 10 in Steemit,
So you create commentators on both platforms, as I said before, like Tipu.
I think the launch of our own currency is an excellent idea.

We will address this issue on discord

I confirm that I've read this post

I really don't know where to start from after reading your write up as regards the issue at hand.

  • I think we definitely need to set up some rules as regards the issue of powering down. I will suggest that the teams shouldn't engage in excessive powering down and if at all there's necessity for powering down, it shouldn't be more than once a month or at most twice a month. We really need to our community steem power and we can definitely make this happen when we act as a team in terms of our decision and activities to make the community effective.

  • Also, it's really a bad idea to undelegate to the community after you've delegated some part of steem to the community. I think anyone who engaged in such act should have a rethink about his or her actions. It's really heart breaking to stop the support at this point when the community accounts needs the huge support to grow at this stage.

  • It's really very bad and so sad that some members who receive weekly support don't do their expected tasks as required. I think we all really need to turn a new leaf and keep engaging more in people's content as this will definitely help us grow our community better. I also noticed the number of engagement is really reducing unlike before, probably maybe some people lost motivation or maybe probably some people maybe having difficult times from their end. I just hope we can all regain that fighting spirit/spark we gathered when building the community. Don't let us give up guys!! Let's keep growing the community as we used to do!!!

  • As for the Hope tokens, I think having our own personal token is definitely a very good idea too and who knows, our Hope tokens may even end up to be more valuable in future just like that of LeoFinance (Leo).

Thanks for sharing this great post with love from @hardaeborla and I hope you have a great day ahead ♥️💕❤️💓❤️

I confirm my reading, I will make some considerations about it directly to Discord.

You raised an important issue here.
True, there has been an increase in the price of both steem and sbd. But in ratio, I think converting sbd to steem still gives almost the same quantity as it was. Cos both of them are increasing geometrically. I think the major problem will come if sbd price falls and steem rises above sbd. Though I do not know perfectly well how steem economics works.

I also noticed that the vote value of posts have increased with the increase in steem but there is no visible increase in the payout value.

About the Hope token, I think it will be a very potent solution for this. But we should also put the buyback policy into consideration.

PS: You made mention that some people that are supported do not make engagements. I think the bot has made it easier for the solution.
Moreover, it is not difficult to engage on posts; just have a minimum amount of posts to engage a day and by the end of the week, you have gotten your benchmark.

Thanks buddy

I confirm and read it

we already discussed about it and its certainly a serious issue. Let's discuss in discord it further.

Confirm reading through. Expect my thoughts on discord

Hi, I read the post, I understand the problem, and what could be presented if SBD drops in price, something that will undoubtedly happen at some point. I will write you on Discord.

I understand, I confirm that I read the article.

Hello, I confirm and read it

Read

Hello friend, I confirm reading, it is certainly a problem. I will share my opinion privately. Regards!

Hi dear family

definitely a great reason to consider launching our own HOPE token.

I think that's a great idea, we should take advantage of this uptrend

What do you think?

First: I fully understand the issue and it is understandable that all weekly support is recalculated

second: we must always change it is difficult to keep everything the same in this complex and dynamic world, I hope that changes will be for better

I ask God to give you the wisdom to make the best decision, you have my full support, this project saved my life, thank you dear angel

I confirm and read it.

Will do brainstorming on discord.

Good afternoon, I confirm the reading of the article and I will leave my opinion in the discord dear friend.

I confirm reading. Will share my thoughts with you on discord.

Greetings team.

This is certainly a problem; however, I believe that we are all aware of the limitations that we would face if there were a price correction and where the stablecoins (SBD/HBD) of both chains were to stabilize at a ratio of 1:1 (which is most likely), I believe that the most convenient thing to do is to establish a monthly fund in STEEM and another in HIVE from the resources received through beneficiaries, and then establish several categories with certain percentages (core team N%, curators N%, collaborators N%, others N%, etc.). Obviously, the fund in each chain will be proportional to the activity and voting power in STEEM - HIVE, so it is understandable that price fluctuations will affect the support allocated to each user, since it will be equivalent to the previously established percentage of the fund collected in each block chain.

On the other hand, in the case of members who receive weekly support for participating, I believe it would be convenient to design a participation scale with specific percentages and include them in the monthly fund.

At this point I am still not clear about the approach, but it is part of a brainstorming process with possible solutions, so that in the future situations like the ones that are occurring do not arise.

@tipu curate 3

I confirm and read it.

sent messge in discord

Oops... I nearly missed out on this article, but once again I just have to say that you have my complete trust. I fully admire the work you are doing with the Project hope community, and all those thoughts, administration, work, dreams, and so on - I support you no matter what you do (at least almost)! :)

Greetings friend, I understand the problem that would represent a fall in SBD price to the point of balancing with steem. It is a natural process that there will be changes in the economy as we have a constantly changing landscape, more so in this type of platform.
I think your concern about the current system is sensible if the SBD price drop occurs and it is equalized with the steem at 1$. I think the Hope token would be a good idea, sooner or later you may have to go in that direction.
On the other side the weekly support does not have to be a fixed value, maybe it could be set as a % of the amount of the fund received as beneficiary, so it would be different every week depending on this. I don't know if this makes sense.
It is also prudent to constantly review who receives the weekly support. Perhaps keep a statistic that allows us to measure whether a team member increases or decreases his commitment and in which chain he participates more. With the bot it should be possible to know this, and thus stop rewarding those who are not committed or adjust the support to the level of commitment.

Greetings dear friend @crypto.piotr.

I actually share your opinion when you express:

The reality is that the only sensible way would be to adjust the budget for that particular activity each month. Depending on the level of beneficiaries entering the ph-fund. And that would mean that every month the weekly (?) support should be adjusted.

In this way it would be accurate the fluctuations of steem input, I also think that a standard amount of comments should be placed for all who do it, ie 10 for starters and 20 comments for the rest, because in this way it would be easier the distribution of the budget allocated for this particular activity.

It is important to contact that member who receives this support and does not comment to see what his reasons are, and let him know that he must make his comments otherwise another user would take his place, I love the arrival of our own currency (token) will strengthen us as a community.

We keep in touch my dear friend @crypto.piotr, thank you for allowing us to be part of the debate and build together any kind of solution.

Reading from the post and drawing out my opinion from it. I will say these are some of my contributions to it below

(1). First of all concerning the hike in price. I believe it will be advisable to put the weekly support for a hold now. Just as you say, if this continues projecthope might hit the wall soon and even worse when sbd returns back to its normal $1 ratio. Which this will not be good for the community.

Though this might tend to reduce the activeness of some people as some user are only active because of the weekly support they receive but I think that's one of the major ways to reassess people who are still active and engaging to keep the vision of projecthope going or they are just active because of the weekly support they receive.

(2). About people not even making comments and getting weekly support.

I believe i have discuss this with you sometimes ago about what to do when people receiving weekly support are not active.

I believe if they have been noticed that they are not doing the work they are been supported for. If they have been testrun for the first and second week, it will be advisable to end the deal with them.

Not even when the weekly support is growing difficult to meet up the demands due to the hive and steem price hike.

(3). About the projecthope token

I strongly believe this is really a great idea. With this coming in place, it can help to replace the mechanism of the weekly support with steem or hive and then tend to still maintain and prevent the projecthope community from hitting the wall. Quite a great idea I will say

Hello friend, I have had the opportunity to read the article and I note that with the price increase of hive and steemit the thing starts to get a little complicated.

Firstly, I think you should share the benefits with the contributors, depending on what you can collect and estimate a standard percentage of steem for those who make the comments, since, when this kind of bullish situations appear, it becomes difficult to pay the rewards.

Secondly, I think the creation of the PH token is excellent, as it will allow us to efficiently manage the finances of the project.

Thirdly, to make a kind of verification of all users who write in the community, to avoid the leakage of rewards in case there are users with multiple accounts.

Well these are just some thoughts on the matter, the idea is to adjust the expenses that the community has and make projections of what would be the ideal payments in bullish periods.

See you later and success brother.

Greetings dear friend. Certainly it is important to sincere that those receiving support are truly committed. Although it is not a topic I am very proficient in I think the Project Hope token idea is a good idea to maintain weekly support in a way that is not so affected by SBD and steem movements.

Hello leader, the truth is that you are right in everything you say, particularly I have tried all these days to take advantage of this price escalation and I neglected my responsibility a bit, I also recently did power up.

In reference to the PH token, if you think it is the solution to this problem then let's try it.

If the creation of the token ends up benefiting everyone involved in Project HOPE in a better way than the current weekly support and does not hurt the PH economy, then that is fine.

It is my opinion, I am sure that this will be the best for everyone.

Comment updated at the request of @crypto.piotr privately via discord.

Confirmed that I have read it.

I think the HOPE token thing is definitely a good idea.

It is also necessary to renegotiate new rules with those who delegate voting power.

Greetings:
Regarding the interaction in steemit, obviously you are going to have fewer people participating, because most of the people used steempeak.com and it will disappear at the end of April.The steemit.com page takes a long time to load its functions, Which makes it quite difficult to comment, since the publications take a long time to be displayed, and the technical team of the platform has not bothered to solve this problem. Obviously this affects the amount of comments made on the community.This is taken into account as the reason why people do not comment on steemit, it's probably that. So from my point of view I think that the comments made in steemit should be valued more (due to the difficulty of making them in terms of the technical aspect of the time that is lose trying to post a comment and load the page to make it visible so you can read the post). Until there is a front-end that is as friendly as steempeak.com was, I think this problem will persist.

So this point that I mention should be taken into account.

Another thing is that you should renegotiate new rules for those who delegate you sp / HP.

I do not know what they can be but there should be some rules in this regard, so that the person withdraws their support should pay a commission for procedures carried out.

PS: Updating this comment took me more than 20 minutes to order and done it. I comment on this just so you can see the dimension of the problem.

I confirm reading through. Will make my comment in discord.

I confirm reading through this content.